Lion = Vista? No...

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by ThirtyThr33, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. ThirtyThr33 macrumors 6502

    ThirtyThr33

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    #1
    Hey guys, so I am getting my MacBook Pro 15 2.0 Thursday and I just wanted to know what everyones thoughts were one Lion? I have heard many people say that it's the Vista of OS X, which I highly doubt, and makes me believe that the person who makes such remarks has never been forced to use vista (like me). There's no way it can be that bad, but at the same time I haven't had a chance to try it yet. But I see all kinds of forums touting tips on how to "fix" Lions annoyances. I would just like to know what the majority thinks instead of tech article writers.

    TLDR: Is lion as bad as vista?
     
  2. benhollberg macrumors 68020

    benhollberg

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    #2
    Lion is not as bad as Vista. Lion was a great upgrade for me.
     
  3. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #3
    Lion's been great for me on an older MBP

    It is "trendy" to bash Apple these days for some reason
     
  4. getz76 macrumors 6502a

    getz76

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    #4
    Lion is nowhere near as stable as Snow Leopard after 10.6.3.

    There are some nice ideas, but I am hoping 10.7.3 brings back some stability and fixes some minor (but annoying) issues. Hopefully the same timeline as Snow Leopard. You don't have much of a choice if you buy a new machine, though.

    Vista was nowhere near as bad as people claimed, especially on machines suited to run it.
     
  5. adztaylor macrumors 68000

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    Preston, UK
    #5
    Funny, people said Snow Leopard was Apple's Vista when that came out. Some people simply won't like the new features in the OS and will also moan about the bugs they have failing to notice it's a .0 release.

    From a personal point of view I'm finding Lion and it's new features fantastic. Worthy upgrade for me.
     
  6. ThirtyThr33 thread starter macrumors 6502

    ThirtyThr33

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    #6
    Yeah from the minimal testing I did at the Apple store it seemed fine.

    Vista Computers back in the day came shipped with Vista, but usually also came with install disks for XP just in case. That's how bad vista was. And unlike Lion, it didn't work with anything half the time. So that's what lead me to believe people who made such claims never had to use vista.

    But I just wanted to hear unbiased opinions. I can't wait to get my MBP and test out Lion
     
  7. AppleNewton macrumors 68000

    AppleNewton

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    #7
    Lion in general is a great OS. However it does have its quirks if you were familiar with something previous to Lion. I like it dropped support for older applications written under Universal, Rosetta, PPC, etc. makes it less cluttered and better for coders.
    IMO I preferred spaces over mission control, but that is what it is.
    Some things that I noticed were graphics performance was alittle messy and not as fluid as in SL. The resume feature isnt necessarily that great...for me.
    While you can disable some of those functions, its a bit redundant to say the least.
    Im running one system on Lion and another on SL. it took a few updates to care for SL so it may be few more updates for Lion as well.
     
  8. getz76 macrumors 6502a

    getz76

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    #8
    A x.0 release should not be a beta, but nowadays it is. I guess electronic distribution has made us all lazy and complacent; we'll fix it with the first update!

    Snow Leopard's initial release was rather buggy.
     
  9. ThirtyThr33 thread starter macrumors 6502

    ThirtyThr33

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    #9
    Can you elaborate on the stability issues? Not trying to argue just curious.

    And youre right, Vista was okay on higher end machines, but I wouldn't say the majority of computers were compatible to run it properly. I was one of the suckers who had no XP disc and had just bought a new laptop who couldn't run Vista.
     
  10. ThirtyThr33 thread starter macrumors 6502

    ThirtyThr33

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    #10
    Can't you run SL in some sort of virtualizing program similar to VMware just for the PPC and Rosetta support?
     
  11. getz76 macrumors 6502a

    getz76

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    #11
    A handful kernel panics on my Mac Pro 4,1 with Lion. That machine, initially ran Leopard and all updates through Snow Leopard 10.6.8. Not a single kernel panic pre-Lion. Kernel panics with the "update" install and persisted with a "clean" install. The second "clean" install seems to have done the trick, but it does not exactly provide confidence.

    I had a failed clean install on my wife's MacBook Pro 5,3 with Lion.

    Graphics switching in the MacBook Pro 8,2 has been dodgy since the update, sometimes requiring a reboot to switch out of dedicated graphics.

    Plenty of silly things, like fine-tune brightness and volume no longer works.

    Plenty of third-party software is not working, so if you rely on any third-party software, check for compatibility. A short list of things I have run into that no longer work; Avid Pro Tools 9, Pacifist, Datacolor's Calibration Software (buggy), Nik's Dfine plugin for Photoshop CS5, a large number of XBMC's plugins.

    If you had decent hardware (especially graphics), Vista was stable at release. The annoying Vista issues (especially the network issues) were worked out with SP1. That said, Windows 7 blows Vista away; it does everything better. The UI in Windows 7 is fantastic for productivity applications.
     
  12. MOKHAN macrumors 6502

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    Toronto, Canada
    #12
    STRONGLY AGREE that Vista was not as bad as people claimed, from my personal experiences, people who were running it didn't have a system capable of doing so... but that's a little off topic :)
     
  13. Prodo123 macrumors 68020

    Prodo123

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    #13
    IMO Lion's really not much different from Snow Leopard in all aspects. It feels more like a service pack than a full OS upgrade (after all, it requires that your Mac is on SL before installing).
    One feature that I really miss is Dock Expose.
     
  14. awer25 macrumors 65816

    awer25

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    Apr 30, 2011
    #14
    It may depend on the machine/hardware you're using, but I also have the 2011 15" MBP and haven't had a single hiccup with Lion. No kernel panics, hangups, or other issues at all. Of course, I never had a problem with Vista either...
     
  15. podsorcerer09 macrumors regular

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    Sep 9, 2008
    #15
    Doesn't matter how many betas you run, there will be bugs in your .0 release. They also seem more noticeable because this is the first time people aside from those who had beta access are getting the operating system and encounter bugs. I would not call this version of Lion a beta, having used plenty of betas and seen the types of bugs that show up in those versions.

    Lion is overal stable for me even though I've had a few freezing issues I got lucky and missed the wifi bug as well as heat issues. That being said, many people are having problems with their wifi, but if it really persists you can take it into Apple and see what they can do for you. Even if you didn't buy applecare you still get a year's worth of support.
     
  16. polbit macrumors 6502

    polbit

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    #16
    Then you obviously didn't have an Nvidia card, which later was blamed for most of the early BSODs with Vista. I did, and for 3 months fought that bastard of an OS until I put XP back. This was on a high-end desktop that was more than capable. Only to find out months later that Nvidia's Vista drivers were at fault.

    Anyway, from a personal perspective, Lion has not crashed on me once, so I can't say anything bad about it. We can argue about the new features/choices that Apple introduced, but from a stability standpoint, it has been rock solid, for me, on my MBP.
     
  17. ABadSanta macrumors regular

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    Jul 3, 2011
    #17
    Lion is working great for me. I had to get used to some of the new features and gestures, and I had to install gfxcardstatus to keep my computer running on integrated graphics to get the same battery life. Otherwise, it's as smooth as I expect OS X to be.
     
  18. gorskiegangsta macrumors 65816

    gorskiegangsta

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    #18
    From what I remember, Snow Leopard was much buggier than Lion upon its release. Judging by sheer number of complaints (or lack thereof) Lion is a more stable first release, it could use some minor patching though.

    I beg to differ. I have bought a brand new HP laptop "designed for" and running Vista back in May '07 and I have had to reinstall [restore] the OS 6 times (either because of driver issues or due to immense system slowdowns) in first 4 months of use alone.

    I think you're underestimating the power of numbers. It is nearly impossible to eliminate all bugs and glitches in a limited development release. Once the mass user base starts to use the software, more bugs and glitches show up - the ones that escaped developers' attention. IMO, there's nothing wrong with that - it's just a part of development cycle.
     
  19. Prodo123 macrumors 68020

    Prodo123

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    #19
    I own a Lenovo T61, suited to run Vista.
    Have you ever had a living nightmare before?
    Because this was it.

    20 errors every single freakin' day, and Chrome would load webpages slower than the time it takes for a snail to move 1 ft, even with a RAM upgrade. Also it was equipped with 32-bit Vista, so at that time there was no reason to upgrade the laptop to 4GB RAM.

    Upgraded to Windows 7 Ultimate x64. Zero errors, zero slowdowns, etc.
     
  20. getz76 macrumors 6502a

    getz76

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    #20
    I disagree. Fifteen years ago, we were actually beta testing. Nowadays, all we see is a limited distribution and it is called a beta. The testing is all negative confirmation; if no one says anything, it must be okay. When I tested software years ago, we actually TESTED it. I tried to break it. I sent in a report form. It just does not seem to be the way things are done any longer, even with wide releases like OSes. It is not just Apple.

    The luxury of electronic distribution for fixes is a beautiful thing, but it has made the x.0 releases just a public beta. What we call beta now was the alpha of the past. I am not expecting bug-free.

    There is no excuse for Apple to have buggy releases, especially with Lion. Lion is running on such limited hardware (only Core 2 Duo machines and up) and Apple controls all the hardware. When was the first Core 2 Duo machine released for Apple, mid-2006? Even the peripherals are limited because of limited availability. Has any operating system so widely distributed ever been so limited in the hardware it can be installed on?

    Apple tends to get it right, but it takes some time. I still have my 10.6.8 partitions for booting into my production environment. My recommendation is if you need vetted stability, go with 10.6.8 if you can. Wait for 10.7.2 or 10.7.3 until you jump in.
     
  21. gorskiegangsta macrumors 65816

    gorskiegangsta

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    #21
    What you say, about how beta testing used to be, is true. I agree that "open" beta testing is a better way to do it. Microsoft did the exact same with Windows 7, and that turned out to be a solid OS from day one of public release. However, as it stands now, open beta testing would be nothing but cumbersome for Apple. In their eyes, if they release an OS that is stable enough (that be open to interpretation), and work out the kinks in the months following the release, it is as good as openly beta testing. Whether that will yield good results, or whether it is at all good for the consumer is arguable. It has worked generally well in the mobile space, with iOS, and, clearly, Apple is moving to the same model in the desktop (and laptop) space; whether it'll work, or be as successful, only time will tell. This is precisely my point though, that Lion is surpirsingly solid OS (compared to SL, when it first came out), considering the fact that it, for all intents and purposes, hasn't been beta-tested properly (i.e. openly).

    That being said, I am using Lion right now, and apart from a couple of apps acting up, everything else seems in order. That's not to say that Apple should go to sleep on patching Lion - I'm still waiting for an update that'll improve battery life and decrease boot times, but other than that it is fine. Overall Lion offered Myself, personally, a much smoother upgrading experience than Snow leopard did, in retrospect.
     
  22. getz76 macrumors 6502a

    getz76

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    #22
    I agree completely. I reverted completely to Leopard until 10.6.3.
     
  23. gorskiegangsta macrumors 65816

    gorskiegangsta

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    #23
    Yeah, I actually remember being frustrated with the upgrade, wondering if Apple started to go the Microsoft (Vista-like) route. This is precisely why I initially felt nervous upgrading to Lion, but it worked quite well. Sad to hear people are having problems though :(
     
  24. altecXP macrumors 65816

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    Aug 3, 2009
    #24
    Simple troubleshooting would have told you the drivers were at fault. heck there were news stories about it less than a week after Vistas release.

    Vista ran stable on 6 computers in my house, but they were all ATi or Intel graphics.
     
  25. ThirtyThr33 thread starter macrumors 6502

    ThirtyThr33

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    #25
    This is sort of off topic but I just ordered a refurbished 15" 2.0 and I was wondering if you guys think it would come with lion pre-installed or with SL with an eligible free upgrade? From the sounds of it, it seems best to fresh install lion without SL, so I will most likely try that
     

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