logo design

[RubberChicken]

I liked your site a lot. Nice color scheme, layout, and attention to good typography. Don't listen to that guy with the Adobe Golive-designed site with the centered white text on the black background and the freewebs.com counter (although I seriously doubt that you did listen to him 😉)

Thanks very much! I did not have much to do with this version, but I'll be sure to pass your comments on to our web designer. This is still just an update while we develop a databse>flash solution. Still has a few bugs too, which I just noticed. And no, I did not pay to much attention to white on black site, but he confessed to deliberate pot stirring anyway!

 

[RubberChicken]

I just sent you a private message. If you still want to argue about something and make personal attacks and accusations at me, I suggest you do it there and try to maintain a mature attitude...seeing as how you are so much more grounded in reality, enlightened, and experienced than I.

I find it ironic that you call me ignorant, despite the fact that you are:

1) thanking someone for defending you, when they were completely wrong in what they were saying and admitted so

2) refusing to carry on a debate which you started with accusations

3) admitting that your own accusation is flawed because you just now decided that you were talking about some phenomenon that spans multiple industries


I can't vouch for you, but I'm the kind of person who doesn't beat around the bush. I'm not the kind of person that would deny being pissed off, yet resort to calling someone "ignorant" or a "grand idealist." The only time you use derogitory language when talking about someone is either when you are pissed off, or don't have an arguement, but don't want to lose the fight. So which is it exactly?

I never intended anything I said as an attack. So I'm sorry I have offended.

I did not intend to be dramatic, I just disagree with the idea that one person can act as they like because they think it's just them doing it, so it does not count. If I throw a bit of rubbish on the ground thinking... that's OK, it's just me and it's just one bit off rubbish... how do we somehow end up with streets full of garbage. Many people don't vote because they think it won't make a difference. But in the end there always a lot of people thining the same way, who collectively do make a difference.

But that's just my opinion, and does not really count.
😉

 

[Peyote]

I never intended anything I said as an attack. So I'm sorry I have offended.

I did not intend to be dramatic, I just disagree with the idea that one person can act as they like because they think it's just them doing it, so it does not count. If I throw a bit of rubbish on the ground thinking... that's OK, it's just me and it's just one bit off rubbish... how do we somehow end up with streets full of garbage. Many people don't vote because they think it won't make a difference. But in the end there always a lot of people thining the same way, who collectively do make a difference.

But that's just my opinion, and does not really count.
😉

That's ok, we just disagree on the issue. Just because I have a different opinion, doesn't mean I'm wrong. In your analogies, you compare what I am doing to littering or not voting. It's commonly accepted that both of those things are wrong, so you can't argue that littering is ok. However what I did is not like littering...maybe to you, but to others it's not, because it's a subject that's up for debate, unlike littering. There are some that agree with you, there are some that agree with me. I'm not saying that one person doing something wrong will make a difference, I'm saying what I am doing isn't wrong because it doesn't negatively effect the field of design. Let's just move on and agree to disagree...I promise I won't hold this arguement, or you being Australian against you. 😀 Just kidding, I'm jealous that get to live in AU!

 

[Peyote]

I often admire the 60s and 70s swiss graphic design works, Muller-Brockmann, Hoffmann, etc,,, It was simple and efficient. Less is more, I think that will always be true, and I think with the computer making it so easy to place type anywhere and add a photoshop filter to something its easy to get carried away without even thinking if you cannot see past the computer. Furthermore, I think it can be the same with clients. You may do something really simple that could be highly effective, but they dont always see that for what its worth, they expect something different and can be easily impressed by a gross looking bevel lol.

When i did one of my early logo's I started directly on the computer too. It ended up turning out semi-decent, but the end result was rather literal and could have been done better now that I look back on it. The next logo I started by doodling on tests during kinese in high school 🙂 and all over my sketchbook I drew out concepts and different variations and scribbles, notes etc. Than I went to the computer and refined the concepts I had developed and as a result I it worked very well now that i had explored an array of solutions and I was even more pleased with the outcome than previous works. Designers should never abandon the good ole pen and paper.

Anyways was just ranting with whatever this topic came to mind lol.

Peyote, i also want to comment on your website. Very simple, and I don't know if this is your goal but I have talked about the following idea with others. The pdfs are really great on your site and I have always believed that educating the client on some basic things can really help justify your choices down the road when working with them, then they can understand things from a design perspective. Too many clients try to control what the outcome looks like when they don't understand sometimes. After seeing some of the work from your company Peyote, I am definately looking forward to your concept.

I've already got a couple of concepts I'm going to play with in my head, it's just finding the time after work to execute them that's the problem. But I should have some stuff up in a day or so.

I'm a huge fan if the International Typographic Design as well...Especially the posters by Hoffmann and Max Bill. I think any designer can see the genius behind that movement, and those are the pieces that are appreciated by everyone, designers and non-designers alike.

I totally agree about educating the client. It gets pretty depressing sometimes, when you constantly have to explain to clients why you are making certain design decisions, especially when they don't trust you. when I started working where I am now, I was replacing a girl with a Journalism degree, therefore everything had a dropshadow, bevel, or gradient...and all the type was either oblique, underscored, or 20 pt.

Incidentally, I started busting out laughing one day when using Quark to look at a brochure she had made. I don't know if you know about Quark's "Idiot Boxes", but they are the style buttons people use on type, the buttons for italics, bold, etc. Well you should never use those boxes since they aren't actual fonts...this girl loved them. She loved them so much, in fact, that she used a "light" weight of a font for some type, then hit the Bold style button. Light + Bold = roman. I don't know, I guess I'm just a big design geek, but I found that extremely amusing.

People with Journalism degrees shouldn't design.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

I totally agree about educating the client. It gets pretty depressing sometimes, when you constantly have to explain to clients why you are making certain design decisions, especially when they don't trust you

Its not just about trust. I did a logo design where the decisions were made as a group. They kept coming back with redesigns, change this, maybe try this. I was working by the hour, so it wasn't a problem for me, I just felt it could have been handled better. I ended up making well over 100 different variations of logos.....

D

 

[RubberChicken]

I totally agree about educating the client. It gets pretty depressing sometimes, when you constantly have to explain to clients why you are making certain design decisions, especially when they don't trust you. when I started working where I am now, I was replacing a girl with a Journalism degree, therefore everything had a dropshadow, bevel, or gradient...and all the type was either oblique, underscored, or 20 pt.

Incidentally, I started busting out laughing one day when using Quark to look at a brochure she had made. I don't know if you know about Quark's "Idiot Boxes", but they are the style buttons people use on type, the buttons for italics, bold, etc. Well you should never use those boxes since they aren't actual fonts...this girl loved them. She loved them so much, in fact, that she used a "light" weight of a font for some type, then hit the Bold style button. Light + Bold = roman. I don't know, I guess I'm just a big design geek, but I found that extremely amusing.

I agree, sometimes I feel I spend more time explaining why than I do designing. And not just asthetics, but basics like why that tiny chatty jpeg from the web is not suitable for the annual report cover.

And those styling buttons... eeek. But, to be fair I also blame Quark for programming the option in the first place. Most of us are naturally lazy... eherm... efficient, and tend to the shorter path. A lot of designers I've worked with don't know basics like this either.

 

[RubberChicken]

Its not just about trust. I did a logo design where the decisions were made as a group. They kept coming back with redesigns, change this, maybe try this. I was working by the hour, so it wasn't a problem for me, I just felt it could have been handled better. I ended up making well over 100 different variations of logos.....

D

I've got one large client who does this all the time, then on the next job they quibble over small change. They are a bizarre species to be sure.

And another favourite, you go through the whole comittee thing, finally get it approved and you hear those fearful words "Now... I've just got to show this to..."

 

[Peyote]

Its not just about trust. I did a logo design where the decisions were made as a group. They kept coming back with redesigns, change this, maybe try this. I was working by the hour, so it wasn't a problem for me, I just felt it could have been handled better. I ended up making well over 100 different variations of logos.....

D

I deal with that on a daily basis. My boss will pick up a brochure I just had 5000 copies printed of, and start complaining about the copy, when he approved before it ever went to print. It's a constant struggle.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

And another favourite, you go through the whole comittee thing, finally get it approved and you hear those fearful words "Now... I've just got to show this to..."

Argh! that's quite painful...and heard all too often. But what about the "This is all great work, we love it. But we've decided to stay with the original design....." 😱

And complaining about the work/design/copy after its printed is a management tactic that lets them think they're actually doing something and take credit away from the people doing the work - a passive/aggressive thing 😉

D

 

[neut]

Argh! that's quite painful...and heard all too often. But what about the "This is all great work, we love it. But we've decided to stay with the original design....." 😱

commitees and clients will never get the process unless you teach them.

when i first meet a client a convience them that i know what i am doing and they are hiring me because they don't (as far as the project/design is concerned). if they have previous ideas they can interject them, but i let it be known that the final project may not look anything like their ideas; unless your dealing with another creative client... that's something completely different).

if they think they know better than you let them do it themselves. never be afraid to tell a client no or they'll run you over and you'll never be satisfied with your work. money is ****, but a knowing you difference with your skill... no that's ****ing cool.


peace.

 

[polyesterlester]

Thanks very much! I did not have much to do with this version, but I'll be sure to pass your comments on to our web designer. This is still just an update while we develop a databse>flash solution. Still has a few bugs too, which I just noticed. And no, I did not pay to much attention to white on black site, but he confessed to deliberate pot stirring anyway!

When I wrote that message, Mblazened hadn't confessed yet, but for some odd reason MacRumors took hours for my post to actually appear. Weird.

Anyways, I like the site and I also really like some of Peyote's logos (that capitol hill wedding cake one is genius - good work).