London 2012 Olympics

[Surely]

Pistorius had to fight his way into the Olympics. His artificial limbs have been scrutinized, and The Court of Arbitration for Sport ruled that Pistorius has no advantage over other runners during a race.

The CAS panel unanimously determined that Dr. Brüggemann only tested Pistorius's biomechanics at full-speed when he was running in a straight line (unlike a real 400-metre race), that the report did not consider the disadvantages that Pistorius suffers at the start and acceleration phases of the race, and that overall there was no evidence that he had any net advantage over able-bodied athletes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius#Dispute_over_prosthetics

He's good to go, and he should be allowed to compete.

 

[Macman45]

^^

I agree, it was just he was so far off the pace, I wonder what he's trying to prove...He is indeed a double amputee, and I have the utmost respect for him...It just seems he's competing in an environment he can't really ever succeed in.
http://uk.eonline.com/news/335565/d...-pistorius-trades-race-bibs-with-kirani-james

 

[zioxide]

What happens in four years if he gets improved blades and crushes Bolt's sprint record? It's a slippery slope when you allow non-human elements as part of a human during competition. The level playing field is supposed to be just that.

The guy is an inspiration, no doubt. Not questioning his strength or courage. I just think there's a line when it comes to medical enhancements with athletes, just like doping. You can call it ridiculous all you want, but I'd like to hear where you draw the line.

I don't think you can call it a "medical enhancement". The only thing they do is bring him on par with the athletes who have normal feet. If you put motors, springs, etc in them, then yeah, it would be an unfair advantage.

Also for the sake of argument, the whole "medical enhancement" thing is a grey area. Couldn't some of these new surgeries and technologies to rehab from injuries could almost be considered that now? In the past few years, there are now athletes having ligament replacement surgeries and coming back even stronger than they were before.

With respect to Pistorius I think there is a reason to say he cannot run. It's clear his blades flex and "bounce" adding some mechanical advantage. This is not an advantage available to all competitors.

There is some element of flex and bounce in real human feet/ankles too.

The prestorious question is a tricky one though...He isn't in the same ball-park in terms of times as his fellow competitors, and I wonder why he doesn't compete in the para-games? Would a double amputee be allowed to run those blades though? I doubt it.

He has run in the paralympics and won gold before, and from the report I saw on NBC yesterday he is running in them again this year and hopes to win gold in the 100, 200, and 400.

But what would have happened if he had won that race? There would have been an outcry. Just because he has no legs and has a disadvantage perhaps in real life, it does not mean he is disadvantaged on the track; he is basically augmented. I think the IOC made a mistake, It's just not fair on other athletes.

The IOC (as Surely posted) did extensive testing and determined that it does not give him a competitive advantage. I saw video of them doing testing on an exercise bike to compare his athletic ability to other athletes while removing the blades from the equation.

I think they made a great point in the NBC segment I saw on him last night when they said "if these blades really gave him a competitive advantage, then how come he is the only person in the world to be able to do this?" He's not the only person in the world with access to this technology, but he is the only one who has ever been good enough to make it to this level. That says a lot more about him as an athlete than the medical technology behind his artificial feet.

^^

I agree, it was just he was so far off the pace, I wonder what he's trying to prove...He is indeed a double amputee, and I have the utmost respect for him...It just seems he's competing in an environment he can't really ever succeed in.

He might have been off the pace in that semifinal race, but keep in mind he had already placed in the first round of qualifications (and beat out several other runners) to make it in to that round to begin with.

 

[Peace]

Well now that was nice of Canada to give the US a goal in the women's semifinal.

 

[416049]

Loved watching it, especially the swimming cuz i enjoying doing it myself and damn some of those times were insane 200breast, the medley indiv. were probs my favorites to watch

 

[zioxide]

This USA vs Canada game is epic.. going to overtime right now.

 

[Peace]

USA 4-3 over Canada in 2 extras.

A header goal with just a few seconds left lifts USA into the Gold match against Japan.

I'm in love with Alex Morgan hehe

 

[theautopilot]

O...M....G!

The women's football (USA vs Canada) was Amazing! What a match, I wish most premiership games were like that, that put the men to shame.

Well done USA. It football (proper football, not hand egg ) getting more popular in in the US?

 

[ucfgrad93]

The US vs. Canada women's soccer match was amazing! What a great game by both teams.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Interestingly one of the top archers is practically blind and out shoots 'normally' sighted competitors. Was impressive to watch.

One of the table tennis players – a Pole, I think – is missing one arm below her elbow. It certainly makes for an interesting serving action.

 

[Tilpots]

Pistorius had to fight his way into the Olympics. His artificial limbs have been scrutinized, and The Court of Arbitration for Sport ruled that Pistorius has no advantage over other runners during a race.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius#Dispute_over_prosthetics

He's good to go, and he should be allowed to compete.

Would they let him in the high jump or even the judo competition, too? I mean, how much scrutinizing can they do? Their conclusion has no scientific merit. I think they just didn't have the balls to tell this guy "no."

I don't think you can call it a "medical enhancement". The only thing they do is bring him on par with the athletes who have normal feet. If you put motors, springs, etc in them, then yeah, it would be an unfair advantage.

Also for the sake of argument, the whole "medical enhancement" thing is a grey area. Couldn't some of these new surgeries and technologies to rehab from injuries could almost be considered that now? In the past few years, there are now athletes having ligament replacement surgeries and coming back even stronger than they were before.

If its not a medical enhancement then tell me what is. And those blades are springs. Please don't make them out to be something they are not. If he was a swimmer, could he attach fins? No. Absolutely not.

Now I agree about the grey area. We're coming to an intersection between sports, medicine and technology and lines are being blurred, just as you point out. I'd be hesitant to call those ligament procedures out for unfair play, but again, I agree with you that we're getting real close.

The IOC said he could compete, OK, fine this go round. But I hope a mistake like this doesn't happen again. It's not fair to the athlete in question, to the other athletes in competition and the sport itself. If they do, they better draw a serious, unquestionable line in the sand as to what is legal and what is not. Otherwise, who knows what may happen in 4 years and beyond.

 

[firestarter]

If its not a medical enhancement then tell me what is. And those blades are springs. Please don't make them out to be something they are not. If he was a swimmer, could he attach fins? No. Absolutely not.

I agree with your whole post. If you take a look at him and then compare him to other able-bodied athletes running the same distance, the able-bodied athletes have a completely different physique. They're 15 KG heavier, with much greater upper body muscle mass. These prosthetics enable a much smaller and less musclebound guy to keep up.

 

[Surely]

^^^^No they don't, because his prosthetics have been found to provide no competitive advantage for him over his opponents.

Would they let him in the high jump or even the judo competition, too? I mean, how much scrutinizing can they do? Their conclusion has no scientific merit. I think they just didn't have the balls to tell this guy "no."

If they found that he had no competitive advantage due to his prosthetics, and if he was able to qualify for the high jump or judo, then yeah, damn right they should let him compete.

And they did initially tell him no. He appealed, and won the right to compete.

The CAS's conclusion, which was based on their analysis of scientific testing done on him, has no scientific merit? Wah? Did you even read the wiki link I provided?

 

[Tilpots]

^^^^No they don't, because his prosthetics have been found to provide no competitive advantage for him over his opponents.





If they found that he had no competitive advantage due to his prosthetics, and if he was able to qualify for the high jump or judo, then yeah, damn right they should let him compete.

And they did initially tell him no. He appealed, and won the right to compete.

The CAS's conclusion, which was based on their analysis of scientific testing done on him, has no scientific merit? Wah? Did you even read the wiki link I provided?

Uhhhhh... Yeah, I read it. The scientist proved he had a competitive advantage. Might want to re-read it. The CAS erred and overturned his scientific evaluation.

Really, I don't want to take away what he's accomplished, he's extraordinary. But it's not fair to him, the other competitors or the sport to let him race. The IOC needs to better define what an Olympic athlete is for future Games.

 

[dkersten]

What an intense game!

 

[MattAtlanta]

Uhhhhh... Yeah, I read it. The scientist proved he had a competitive advantage. Might want to re-read it. The CAS erred and overturned his scientific evaluation.

Really, I don't want to take away what he's accomplished, he's extraordinary. But it's not fair to him, the other competitors or the sport to let him race. The IOC needs to better define what an Olympic athlete is for future Games.

there have been thousands of athletes using the same prostheses that pistorius uses, yet none of them gain a competitive advantage.

enjoy hugh herr from MIT talk about the issue...

http://www.vidiov.info/bd5a85be5.html

and herr's report in the journal of applied physiology..

http://jap.physiology.org/content/108/4/1012.full

 

[Surely]

Uhhhhh... Yeah, I read it. The scientist proved he had a competitive advantage. Might want to re-read it. The CAS erred and overturned his scientific evaluation.

Really, I don't want to take away what he's accomplished, he's extraordinary. But it's not fair to him, the other competitors or the sport to let him race. The IOC needs to better define what an Olympic athlete is for future Games.

So then I guess you read this part then:

The CAS panel unanimously determined that Dr. Brüggemann only tested Pistorius's biomechanics at full-speed when he was running in a straight line (unlike a real 400-metre race), that the report did not consider the disadvantages that Pistorius suffers at the start and acceleration phases of the race, and that overall there was no evidence that he had any net advantage over able-bodied athletes.

 

[Tilpots]

there have been thousands of athletes using the same prostheses that pistorius uses, yet none of them gain a competitive advantage.

enjoy hugh herr from MIT talk about the issue...

http://www.vidiov.info/bd5a85be5.html

and herr's report in the journal of applied physiology..

http://jap.physiology.org/content/108/4/1012.full

I read the article but didn't watch the video.

If theres no advantage, would he be allowed to compete in Judo with those blades on? No.

If his arm was a cannon, could he be a shot putter? No.

If the blind archer used a laser guided prosthetic eye, would that be allowed? No.

If the one handed ping ponger had a paddle implanted on her forearm, would that be allowed? No.

So then I guess you read this part then:

Yup. A political body made a political ruling and botched it. Not surprised.

----

Alright, I'm finished with this. Going to catch the replay of the US Women's Soccer game. Apparently the ref influenced the outcome? Hope not.

 

[Surely]

I read the article but didn't watch the video.

If theres no advantage, would he be allowed to compete in Judo with those blades on? No.

If his arm was a cannon, could he be a shot putter? No.

If the blind archer used a laser guided prosthetic eye, would that be allowed? No.

If the one handed ping ponger had a paddle implanted on her forearm, would that be allowed? No.

How utterly ridiculous.

 

[Tilpots]

How utterly ridiculous.

Moved the Pistorius discussion to the PRSI Olympic Thread.

 

[Queen of Spades]

Excellent work by the USA Women's Soccer team! Bring home the gold, ladies.

Now can we talk about the hideous uniforms the men's beach volleyball team was wearing? I forgot to bring it up at the time.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Now can we talk about these hideous uniforms the men's beach volleyball team was wearing?

Blimey. They look like they should be helping out a German town with its rat problem.

 

[Ezekiel]

Things I know:

1) The British can ride bikes. Quickly.
2) Other stuff.

 

[jeremy h]

Excellent work by the USA Women's Soccer team! Bring home the gold, ladies.

Now can we talk about these hideous uniforms the men's beach volleyball team was wearing? I forgot to bring it up at the time.

Image

Oh, those are brilliant. If I was organising - I'd insist the song Kayleigh was boomed out of the sound systems as they came out on court.

 

[theautopilot]

Would they let him in the high jump or even the judo competition, too? I mean, how much scrutinizing can they do? Their conclusion has no scientific merit. I think they just didn't have the balls to tell this guy "no."

...

I agree with everything you have said.

I understand completely where you are coming from on this. You are thinking with your head, not your heart, which is the only way to ensure true fairness. This time maybe it's ok, but it sets a dangerous precedent and it's the wider principle that counts. Now it's allowed, scientists could work on ever better prosthetic limbs and races could be decided in the lab, which is not right. Then what happens? The IOC has to decide then which they can use and say limb X is ok, but you cant use limb X? Effectively deciding the outcome before they even get to the starting blocks - that would be madness.

I honestly think that he was only allowed to compete because they knew he would not win. If they thought he had a real chance of winning, they would have never allowed it.

Being a good athlete takes three things - genetics, training & metal ability.

This add a 4th element - technology and mechanical engineering. None of the other athletes have this and thus it is unfair and unnatural. Athletics at its core is beautiful in it's natural purity, its pure human Vs human. Technology (in race) should not play a part in athletics. It's not what athletics is about.

What would happen if Nike produced a technologically advanced running shoe, with some sort of spring/piston system, that helped propel a runner 10% faster, and this only available to certain athletes (perhaps who they sponsor) - would that be fair?

How utterly ridiculous.

Exactly! That was the whole point of what Tilpots was saying. Sometimes the best way to demonstrate a point on principle is to take an argument to it's logical extreme. So yes it is ridiculous.