Long term costs of iMac vs. Mac Pro

[HyperX13]

One more thing to the OP. Before making a huge investment in the Mac systems, consider that Apple is moving away from desktops to be a mobile company. Do not be surprised that in a couple years, the OSX as we know it will be gone. You already have many open source projects eliminated from the OSX, stuff like VLC is not going to be OSX supported after release 1.1.



This is a concern that I would have.

 

[kudukudu]

I use Smart UPSs on mine, but I do not see why you would "need" one.

I still do not think that Mac Pros and Imacs are crossing into each other's marketspace. If you do not easily understand why you "need" a Mac Pro, I imagine an Imac will be perfectly fine.

I should have just googled. According to this sight I most likely have a UPS from APC that has a stepped sine wave that sounds like it is okay for short durations:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/248245-28-tomshardware

 

[akadmon]

Also consider that the Mac Pro requires a smart UPS with a true sine wave, which usually cost twice as much as the regular ones.

Well, I must be either incredibly stupid, lucky or both, because my MP has been plugged into the wall for the past 3.5 years and has had zero failures. Looks like my ignorance has saved me a few hundred bucks

 

[Undo]

I’m with Billydelp4. I may need to rethink my position.

So, you do the math: as you consider all these "extras", a Mac Pro turns into a much heavier financial burden, even if you manage to keep it for a longer time. ... For now, the quad iMac is a great deal for most users... so the decision relies more on the fact that you need the built-in expandability and are willing to spend on it, or if you can manage with external solutions.

You mentioned some “extras” that I hadn’t considered, like power consumption and UPS (I live in Florida, the lightning capital of USA; so I need a UPS). Some of the extras aren’t really a factor for me, like a RAID card. Still, you give me pause.

HyperX13’s last comment compelled me to do some speed-reading through the “Is Apple still serious about the professional market?” thread. I had no idea of these concerns about the pro market being neglected and perhaps being dropped. I can certainly understand the concerns.

I think the best thing for me to do is wait out the iMac display issues and then take the approach I’m taking with my car. Since I wasn’t sure about hybrid technology, I decided to lease a Civic Hybrid for 3 years, to see if it suits me. I think I will buy an iMac with the same goal.

As much as I would like a Mac Pro, I need to think sensibly about my needs. Hopefully, if it isn’t a dying breed, I will recognize a need to go Pro in 3 years!

I want to shout “Thanks!” for everyone’s opinion and advice. I came to the right place!

 

[Fourkill]

I would wait

The New i9s are coming soon as will the new Xeons. The Xeons are MUCH faster then the i7's at the moment (Futuremark is your friend ) I would wait a while longer depending on your system. If its something like a P4, please upgrade, if you have a C2D or AMD something or other thats a duel core, i would wait. I own a Mac Pro (MacPro4,1) and its the best system i have ever owned, its a friggin beast. Everything is so easy to upgrade and currently i have 4 HDs in it, can an iMac do that? No. While the new 27 inch iMac is nice, it just doesn't have the expandability that a Mac Pro does. I don't know your style for upgrading manually, some people like to do upgrades and others say that they will just get a new one. All in all, the Mac Pro is a better system especially since you probably have a display already. If time allows wait and see what comes out in the next few months!!! My 2 cents =)

 

[Undo]

Good advice. I will definitely wait to see what's in store for 2010.

 

[whyrichard]

For the, the Hard drive limitation was a big deal. I wanted to have my bootdrive on an SSD --remarkably satisfying upgrade. But i needed big (relatively) storage and that means HDD.

In my Mac Pro I have two ssd's, one with mac os and the other with win7, and two caviar black's for storage.

Until the imac can have at least two hard drives, i can't consider it. SSD's are sooooo sweet.

r.

 

[SmellyTofu]

I'm still 2 minds about the same thing. As a long time PC builder, I've always enjoyed being about to gut out the case and put in new bits to make the PC fast again.

I can understand that the iMac is basically not upgradeable to any extent but things like storage can be easily fixed with a NAS HDD setup. Sure it doesn't come close to ESATA speeds, but the main thing I'm dealing with are Photoshop, Lightroom etc. But on the other hand, the MP allows me to dabble into video/slideshow. It's like buying a 4WD but just driving in the city right at this moment.

I'm hoping at least the MP single Quad core will drop again in price when the i7 6 core is announced but I'm not sure if that'll happen as apparently they've dropped in price in Australia late last year.

 

[Max(IT)]

I should have just googled. According to this sight I most likely have a UPS from APC that has a stepped sine wave that sounds like it is okay for short durations:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/248245-28-tomshardware

My UPS is supposed to provide a "pseudosinusoidal wave" (it's reported on the user manual): is it a pure sine wave or a stepped sine wave ?

BTW in both cases it's perfectly ok for my needs: I just need an UPS that gives me time to shut down the computer.

 

[Salavat23]

Actually the imac 24"+ is using the same H-IPS panel as the NEC....so I would say it's comparable but with a few differences. The iMac actually has a great screen.

Both are H-IPS, but they are not the same panel.

 

[nanofrog]

My UPS is supposed to provide a "pseudosinusoidal wave" (it's reported on the user manual): is it a pure sine wave or a stepped sine wave ?

BTW in both cases it's perfectly ok for my needs: I just need an UPS that gives me time to shut down the computer.

Stepped.

 

[pprior]

I've upgraded my mac pro RAM and video card, and both have been very nice upgrades. No processor upgrades done (I think that is very rarely done).

The biggest difference, IMO, is drive storage. Without an eSATA port, the imac's biggest limit is storage. I don't want to tear anything apart to install an SSD for example, and FW800 just isn't fast enough for primary storage at least for my impatient self. I've got 4TB plus an SSD just inside my mac pro.

Having said that, the newest imacs are very nice, and I realize it's a difficult decision. I will stick with the mac pro personally.

Good luck with your decision. I was a PC user for over 20 years before switching to mac about 4 years ago now, have been happy ever since!

 

[Max(IT)]

Stepped.

thanks

 

[diazj3]

How do you determine this. I have a 1500 watt APC UPS that I got from Costco that appears to work fine with my Mac Pro in the sense that everything continues to work if I pull the plug, but I probably paid $100 to $150 for this sucker so it is definitely not a high end UPS. Can I damage my machine if the UPS doesn't have a true sine wave?

I use Smart UPSs on mine, but I do not see why you would "need" one.

My UPS is supposed to provide a "pseudosinusoidal wave" (it's reported on the user manual): is it a pure sine wave or a stepped sine wave ? BTW in both cases it's perfectly ok for my needs: I just need an UPS that gives me time to shut down the computer.

It doesn't have to do with the battery time, but with the way it provides it. I first got a regular APC 1500w BackUPS... but the huge power draw the Mac Pro makes for a couple of seconds when waking from sleep or turning on overloads the UPS, and automatically turns the computer off. This would happen everytime the computer was running on battery, and every other time while running on AC. After some research, this turned out to be a common issue among 2009 MacPro and APC users. Some have worked around this by placing a surge suppressor between the UPS and the computer, but the APC people say that's not such a good idea.

Also, a smart UPS provides "cleaner" energy - but that's just an extra benefit. I used to have one of my displays flicker lightly every once in a while with the regular UPS. This was fixed with the SmartUPS.

Either way, this is a huge investment in hardware and data to take lame chances, hence I returned the regular BackUPS, took the bullet and got the SmartUPS for twice the price. Something in my head kept asking - in a Clint Eastwood voice, every time there was a brownout or blackout - "...so, ¿do you feel lucky today, PUNK... do you???".

I guess if you're considering a Mac Pro - or any other expensive electronic gear - and planning to keep it for a long time, the best quality power and protection you put into it, the better and longer it'll last - specially in places where the power service is not the best.

cheers!

 

[vvrinne]

One thing I think should also be considered is the resale value of the units. Personally I've been switching to an all-Apple setup over the last few years, which has been a significant money sink with 4-5 computers in the house at any given time. Although I've had to spend more money replacing computers upfront than I would have spent with PCs, in the long run I don't think my costs will skyrocket. And the simple reason is resale value.

I am not sure what the situation in the US is, but in Finland right now an Apple branded computer seems to loose about 1/3 of its value (exact amount depending on various factors) in 2 years. In the same 2 years any given PC-configuration will probably loose about 80% of it's value, which is a pretty significant difference. This is my reasoning for the whole PC vs Mac price thing.

Normal market rules still apply though. An increase in the amount of 2nd hand macs on the market is likely to accelerate the amount of value the computers loose over any given time period. This is an effect I think I have already seen in portable macs that have become very popular in the last 5 years. It is also something that I think will affect the iMacs next.

My gut feeling is that the same thing that has already happened with the Macbooks to some extent will happen with the iMacs next and they will start to loose value more rapidly than the niche products. I don't have the sales numbers for the different models so this is just a guesstimate.

Now since the only real niche computer left in the Apple portfolio is the Mac Pro my reasoning is that over the next 10 years they will retain their value better than the iMacs. The difference might not be huge but I think TCO-wise the two aren't that far apart anyways.

As far as the actual hardware goes I just sold my 24" iMac and am now waiting eagerly for the new Mac Pro. I think the 27" i5/i7 iMacs are pretty good value but there are some things that I think Apple is pretty retarded about (like not offering an SSD option). With the numbers I've been seeing in various tests I don't like the idea of buying a >1500$ computer right now without an SSD.

 

[ray_uk]

Opt for upgrade-ability

Definitely the Mac Pro, even if only for the option of being able to upgrade it.
The iMac would be a lot more appealing if it had a slot for SSD and a coventional HDD, or if apple decided to offer some more up to date MXM cards.

 

[mjsmke]

Actually the imac 24"+ is using the same H-IPS panel as the NEC....so I would say it's comparable but with a few differences. The iMac actually has a great screen.

imacs use to have good screens. I'm on my 3rd imac. The first is nearly 10 years old and still works well (as a media center). The second lasted 5.5 years. The new ones have such terrible screens (yellow casts in corners or in my case bottom 3rd). its been sent back twice in less than 3 weeks. So, i would say MP if you can afford it and upgrade over time. imacs are lovely but any problems with the screen will cost you loads.