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They did

So I wonder why Apple does not patch that hole and offer the public a desktop under the pro and under $2500 😱 😕


In case everyone forgot Apple tried this once... it was called the G4 Cube. They answered the call to create this "missing link" computer and sold like 10 of them. I doubt they will make the same mistake twice.

Good luck with the Dell and Windows.... after the root kits and spyware settle in you'll think you have a G3 on your desk ;-)
 
I just know that our laptops at my school boot and run extremely slow after only a few months of existence- I imagine you have had to work very hard at keeping your five year old machine up to date, in good working order with software updates, etc. Most people don't want to put that much effort into their computer- they just want it to work- I would gather that even if someone has a slightly slower Mac they woudl still be more productive than someone having to put so much energy and time into updating, cleaning, devirusing, decluttering, despywaring, de adwaring, etc. a Windows machine. JMO

It's really not that difficult if you're the only user on a machine. School computers always run slow because they have hundreds of people messing with them. I've never had to spend a lot of energy to keep my computer clean and working...the ocassional defrag and security updates are all that's needed. I hate the thing because it's huge and the display resolution is crap, but back in feb '02 when I bought it it was way ahead of anything else, with a price tag to match.

I personally kind of enjoy using a platform where there's competition. it keeps the innovation coming, but without the frequent updates that outdate your existing hardware almost immediately. There's merit to having a 5 year old operating system, instead of having to upgrade every time a new .XX revision comes out so the newest apps will run.

That said, my awesome HP small business machine is coming back from a warranty repair (I think it's two years old now) and I can't wait. Free three year warranty rules. But I will eventually have to give in and buy a mac, except I haven't figured out how I'm going to run this legacy software I need that ran under some old version of Classic.
 
I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread before (I just can't be botherd reading six pages😛). I think it's possible to install Mac on a PC but I'm not shure...
 
I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread before (I just can't be botherd reading six pages😛). I think it's possible to install Mac on a PC but I'm not shure...


besides not being legal, yes, you can do this, but it's a pain in the arse. I have an OSx86 thing going but I wouldn't use it for any real work, I just wanted to see if it would work at all.

You don't really want OSX running on PC hardware anyway. I really don't think windows is that bad if you take the time to configure it to your useages. I've never encountered the demonic behavior people are claiming on this thread, whereas I've tried to do things on a mac and been stymied at every turn. it really depends on what you're used to using and what habits you're willing to change.
 
The iPhone and the Triple booting thing is totally retarded. With virtualization becoming a much more consumer product, and the ability to run much more efficiently then the first generation of the technology, there is ABSOLUTELY no need to do this. Virtualization is much more time efficient then rebooting everytime you need to do something in another OS.

Except Apple and Microsoft alike are really being retarded on the subject of virtualization.

I would love to run several copies of OS X in vmware fusion or something for testing purposes - I can't even be arsed to repartition my drive to install leopard right now and all I do is boot from an external drive which becomes a pain in the ass, so I almost never reboot 🙁
 
Except Apple and Microsoft alike are really being retarded on the subject of virtualization.

I would love to run several copies of OS X in vmware fusion or something for testing purposes - I can't even be arsed to repartition my drive to install leopard right now and all I do is boot from an external drive which becomes a pain in the ass, so I almost never reboot 🙁



Actually Janey... thats just Apple.... Microsoft doesnt even have control of what VMWare is able to virtualize or not. Apple wont allow their OS be installed on anything but their hardware. Hence why it is illegal to install OSX on a PC
 
Actually Janey... thats just Apple.... Microsoft doesnt even have control of what VMWare is able to virtualize or not. Apple wont allow their OS be installed on anything but their hardware. Hence why it is illegal to install OSX on a PC

actually MS disallow the use of VMs to run any of the consumer level versions of Vista. while not a TECHNOLOGY barrier, it's part of the EULA.
 
You should have checked into getting your local computer store to quote you a price on a custom built machine with the same specs. Heh, wait till you ever have to deal with Dell customer service. Having been through three computers from three different mass marketers, I finally learned the lesson to either buy a mac or buy local.
 
Dude I'm as happy as a pig in Sh-- 😀 I never use iLife I dont was .Mac I dont edit video, Dude!! Im happy 😀 😀 😀 I dont have three Mac's that I need to sync etc....

I'm curious, what did you do that required more power and speed?

Best of luck to you, but I have a feeling the maintenance will eat you alive. Windows machines are amazingly squirelly over time, lapsing into a slow senility no matter how well taken care of.
 
actually MS disallow the use of VMs to run any of the consumer level versions of Vista. while not a TECHNOLOGY barrier, it's part of the EULA.

mmm... i thought MS took that back before the launch of Vista because there was a huge outcry on the internet...
 
...I personally kind of enjoy using a platform where there's competition. it keeps the innovation coming, but without the frequent updates that outdate your existing hardware almost immediately. There's merit to having a 5 year old operating system, instead of having to upgrade every time a new .XX revision comes out so the newest apps will run.

I'm confused about your post. You want frequent updates to hardware and technology, the assumed advantage to competition, but you want software to remain fixed?
I want the opposite, I want a consistent and useful change in hardware and rapid developments in software that takes advantage of the hardware to its fullest extent.

If you want hardware to remain fixed, than what is the advantage of competition for you? You don't want to buy new video cards, processors, or hard-drives, so what are you getting if the new Nvidia card is better than last week's? Or if the new laptop is slightly lighter or thinner?
However, if you're rapidly updating your hardware, than a moving target for software might not really incur much of a cost, considering a new computer often includes a new OS.
 
'Long time Mac user switch back to Dell':

Obvious you don't have been a long time Windows user, the only rational explanation I can find. It is the OS why I will never even consider a PC. Any PC hardware specification advantages you may have, will be spoiled by the demands of the OS.

You can look at the price of a car without ever considering the quality of the engine ( -OS- ), anyway, good luck.😱
 
Well I consider myself a "pro" graphic designer & illustrator, as I earn my money by doing this. And I have no speed problems on my 1,67 ghz pb G4 with 2 gb ram running CS2. In fact I'd take the powerbook over any new up to date windows machine, just so I don't get my productivity slowed down by windows. My time is too precious to make 3 clicks where only 1 is required.

My thoughts exactly. I also have a G4 1.67 GHz PB DL w/ 2GB RAM, and no problems running PS and Illustrator CS3.
 
mmm... i thought MS took that back before the launch of Vista because there was a huge outcry on the internet...
why i mentioned windows is because whether or not you can legally do that depends on the version of vista being used, namely only business and ultimate. this has not changed, it was on the verge of being so a few weeks ago, but MS changed last-minute and stuck to their original EULA.

It is completely possible but illegal to run a hacked version of OS X or any non-business/ultimate version of vista in such a fashion.

Hence my previous statement about the two companies being really retarded about it.
 
My thoughts exactly. I also have a G4 1.67 GHz PB DL w/ 2GB RAM, and no problems running PS and Illustrator CS3.

Hey nice to know I'm not alone! 🙂

I don't have the dl superdrive though, mine is the model with the 1280x854 resolution screen as it was bought in april 2005. But with the 21" Eizo at home this isn't really a problem for me.😎

I guess I'll keep my baby for another year and see what mbps are out then...

And for the G4s being slow, I know agencies, yes AGENCIES, where they still use ~1ghz G4 towers.
 
XP of course 🙂 no need for Vista the machine I ordered it with 2GB of ram and it will support up to 4GB 🙂

Hard drive: 250GB SATA 3.0Gb/s with NCQ and 8MB DataBurst Cache

To support more than 3.2GB of RAM in Windows, you need a 64bit OS. Plus your motherboard needs to support it too.

Otherwise it may well recognise if you have more than 3.2GB, but it won't be able to use it.
 
1GHZ towers are still plenty good these days. playing your music, or file servers for businesses. they are really quite handy i need to get myself a couple!!!!
 
The same reason he went back to PCs is the same reason I'm sticking with PCs.

Apple needs to make a headless iMac, period. But they don't, so they apparently don't want the business or money of people like many of us. Ok then.

I will be building a Q6600 system with 4 gigs of ram and an 8800GTS video card for $1500. Half the price of a Mac Pro with more ram and a better video card. And I could care less about working in Windows because it's worked thus far, it continues to work, and I have no problems with it.

All this FUD about antivirus slowing down the computer, 6 months of slogging through the mud, comparing educational Dells loaded with bloated security software is ridiculous. If you're pissed off that someone stopped using a Mac in favor of a Windows machine, then fine, be pissed off. Don't spread BS FUD. Windows has its quirks, no more or no less than OS X.

OP - enjoy your computer. If it works for you and fits your budget, congratulations...that's the important thing.
 
As a recent switcher (to Mac, not from Mac), I think there are definitely a few things we have to keep in mind whenever this inevitable debate happens.

In my humble opinion...

(1) In a purely quantitative sense, Macs are more expensive than PCs. Windows users overhype this, while us Mac users try to throw in things that aren't necessarily factors, like antivirus software (which you could obtain for free). Macs aren't much more expensive than PCs, but they're a tad more expensive than PCs. I am an eager member of the cult of mac, but for God's sake, an OS update every year and a half? As nice as it is, and as wrapped up in childlike wonder as I am, I'm not made of money, Steve Jobs.

(2) Macs are great for people that hate the Windows experience. Sick of the Start menu, restarts, and viruses? Sure you'll love Macs. Don't mind those, or love games above all else? The Mac won't win you over.

(3) Macs are great for creative users or for techies that enjoy open-source software and well-developed commercial software. I have been amazed at the vibrancy of the Mac dev community--from the indispensable HandBrake to the nice little apps like AppDelete, there are so many great third party apps

(4) Macs lose some steam if the user experience doesn't matter to you. While this may seem like a silly or irrelevant point, I get the impression that the original poster gets no satisfaction out of Windows or Mac. They use their computer for some things, but mostly care about the absolute best numerical bargain, which is arguably a Windows PC. Similarly, the OP doesn't seem to care about speed loss, which is inevitable on a Windows PC. If neither of these things bother you, Windows is just fine. No, seriously.

(5) All we do is bolster their market share by acting like a stereotypical Mac fan. I'm a huge fan. A HUGE fan. But if we act like the dude in the Mac commercial, all we'll do is create Windows fans. Very few people I know like Windows--they just use it because they have to. Our fanatical devotion to winning every argument has made us seem more immature than we actually are, and in some cases, actually created Windows defenders.

I apologize for the length of this post, but my two cents is that if we step back, act nice, and target the underserved users who aren't yet on Macs (gamers, enterprises), we'll get somewhere. If we act haughty and aloof, we'll just lose. Just my humble opinion.
 
hahahahaha...a G4 is too slow......

Remember how awesomely blazing fast a G4 was/is?
Gee, what happened? Did the physics of this universe change while everyone was sleeping?
Now the G4 is slow??!!

I'm still using my 10 year old accelerated 76 & 8600 for audio recording and photoshop. It does eveything I need it too. hahahaha

OP, you're premise is disengenuous.....either you have the money to buy something or you don't. I'd love to have a yacht but all I can afford is a little dinghy...thats life.

However, I hate windows but this Apple fanboy-ism around here is too much...that was soooo 90's

I'm ready to upgrade. I'm just waiting for Apple to come out with a product with better QC. But I won't hold my breath. I'll buy in the fall anyway.
 
As a recent switcher (to Mac, not from Mac), I think there are definitely a few things we have to keep in mind whenever this inevitable debate happens.

Agreed. The first thing that I noticed is that the OP had already made up their mind (and IIRC, purchased), so it is all water under the bridge as far as the OP is concerned. I don't really know what he thought that his little "protest" message would accomplish, except perhaps for him to express some degree of frustration that he was experiencing from his personal life situation...which is not really any of our business, nor our responsibility.

Point being that no one here should allow themselves to feel any blame for one consumer deciding to leave the Macintosh community...it was their choice based on their personal elements which we were utterly ignorant of and never really afforded any opportunity before his decision was made.


(1) In a purely quantitative sense, Macs are more expensive than PCs.

Quantitatively, it really depends on how you count.

Classically, the comparison is on initial purchase price only, and while some folks throw in things like the cost of AV subscriptions, a bigger variable is how long the hardware lasts and what is its residual sale value afterwords.

For example, consider a $1.2K PC vs a $2K Mac: if the PC only 'lasts' 3 years and is then worth $300 resale, then it cost the owner $300/year. Similarly, if the Mac goes 5 years but is still worth $700 afterwords, its cost was $260/year, which is by this measure, a better value.

Again, there is no hard & fast right/wrong way to try to quantify things, since financial situations are a YMMV. My main point is that there's different levels with which you can examine this seemingly-simple question of "cost", and decide which one is most right for you.


I am an eager member of the cult of mac, but for God's sake, an OS update every year and a half? As nice as it is, and as wrapped up in childlike wonder as I am, I'm not made of money, Steve Jobs.

Some upgrades are worth more than others. Doesn't matter if we're talking Apple or Adobe. As always, it is up to the consumer to decide his cost:benefit to any such investment, no differently than hardware.


(2) Macs are great for people that hate the Windows experience. Sick of the Start menu...Don't mind those...The Mac won't win you over.

Inevitably, there must be some motivation for the consumer to "Vote with his Wallet". Not only can it be a strong like, it can also be a strong dislike. Cost is a common barrier to change, as is also mere change itself. It takes some degree of incentive to get out of one's comfort zone to take the risk to try something different...doesn't matter if we're talking about a new OS, or a new brand of automobile.

Typically, people become more conservative and resistant to change the higher the perceived stakes are. For example, if $1000 is a huge amount of money to you, then changing anything that costs $1000 or more is going to be a "Big Deal" to deliberate over. If you suspect that this might lead to derrogatory generalizations regarding snobby 'Rich People', just be aware that we are all guilty of this, but merely perform it at different dollar levels.


(3) Macs are great for creative users or for techies that enjoy open-source software and well-developed commercial software...

My concern for the OP is that they claimed to be a heavy-duty Photoshop user and they're likely stepping into the bear trap of the lousy color management that exists on the Windows platform. Granted, some Apps such as Photoshop are "ICC v2 Aware", but the picture is not a particularly pretty one. This might be an area that leads to regrets, although I understand that Vista is a huge improvement.


(4) Macs lose some steam if the user experience doesn't matter to you. While this may seem like a silly or irrelevant point, I get the impression that the original poster gets no satisfaction out of Windows or Mac..

I suspect that it was merely YA person frustrated by the lack of a $1000 Apple minitower.

The OP's conclusion was the product of their inputs, which include weighting for those things that they consider more/less important. But it is his money, and thus, his decision to make, based on his personal preferences...and biases.



(5) ...Very few people I know like Windows--they just use it because they have to. Our fanatical devotion to winning every argument has made us seem more immature than we actually are, and in some cases, actually created Windows defenders.

A fair point, although also in fairness, we should recognize that some arguements stem from people who can't be bothered to be objectively informed, and/or who find recreational entertainment in debate.


I apologize for the length of this post, but my two cents is that if we step back, act nice, and target the underserved users who aren't yet on Macs (gamers, enterprises), we'll get somewhere. If we act haughty and aloof, we'll just lose. Just my humble opinion.

"We'll lose"? Lose what? Doesn't that ultimately depend on what 'our' objectives are? Can we accurately articulate how our interests are served by fostering an expansion to the Mac marketshare? If not, then perhaps we should self-examine what we think that we're doing and why.


-hh
 
@-hh

Thanks for your really well-written reply--you took some time to think through your responses, and it really shows.

By now, we're at the part of the thread where the OP is clearly no longer a part of the discussion (his goodbye is on page 3 or so, I believe), and although I would like to say a few things, I also don't want to create a gargantuan post. My bottom line is that I agree in principle with the vast majority of what you say, though I'd perhaps quibble in a friendly way on a few points. One of my bigger faults was definitely the "We lose" comment, as you're correct in pointing out that it's both over-vague and probably incorrect, as "we" don't really have a central objective necessarily.

In any case, the reason I wanted to respond in this post wasn't even really to defend the OP, but as a recent switcher, I have noticed that aloofness, rather than rationality, tend to dominate our Mac arguments. Thankfully, we've not nearly reached the level of the 360/PS3/Wii fan raging, but I can definitely see it being maddening from the perspective of others. For example, "It just works" is a wonderful bit of ad copy, but it's an obnoxious response to "Why do you like your Mac?" if that's all you say.

My bottom line here is that we provide a fantastic user experience full of third-party software (much of it free) that just can't be found on Windows. We should win arguments based on the strength of our platform, not simply on aloofness.

After all, we're Mac users--so we're better. 🙂
 
Inevitably, there must be some motivation for the consumer to "Vote with his Wallet". Not only can it be a strong like, it can also be a strong dislike. Cost is a common barrier to change, as is also mere change itself. It takes some degree of incentive to get out of one's comfort zone to take the risk to try something different...doesn't matter if we're talking about a new OS, or a new brand of automobile.

Typically, people become more conservative and resistant to change the higher the perceived stakes are. For example, if $1000 is a huge amount of money to you, then changing anything that costs $1000 or more is going to be a "Big Deal" to deliberate over. If you suspect that this might lead to derrogatory generalizations regarding snobby 'Rich People', just be aware that we are all guilty of this, but merely perform it at different dollar levels.

One of the wisest things I've read on these forums. It is one of the things which makes us human. We (most of us) crave consistancy.


After all, we're Mac users--so we're better. 🙂

That's the kind of zealotry that creates the Mac-user stereotype. It doesn't mean we're better, all it means is that we're more informed and enlightened🙂
 
hh said:
"We'll lose"? Lose what? Doesn't that ultimately depend on what 'our' objectives are? Can we accurately articulate how our interests are served by fostering an expansion to the Mac marketshare? If not, then perhaps we should self-examine what we think that we're doing and why.

[...] though I'd perhaps quibble in a friendly way on a few points. One of my bigger faults was definitely the "We lose" comment, as you're correct in pointing out that it's both over-vague and probably incorrect, as "we" don't really have a central objective necessarily.
[...]
My bottom line here is that we provide a fantastic user experience full of third-party software (much of it free) that just can't be found on Windows. We should win arguments based on the strength of our platform, not simply on aloofness.

I'd like to suggest that increasing market share is an important goal for the future quality of the user experience, and it goes beyond what may affect the Mac user of today.

It is IMHO the small market share that discourages the development of certain software to be ran natively on the Mac (and Linux) and helps perpetuate the dominance of MS Windows, with implications in other fields: have you noticed that job ads ask for people who know how to use MS Word, instead of asking for people who are proficient with word processing software?

Moreover, the lack of market share and the "alternative" status of the platform leads to bad decisions as clueless users will follow "the easy way" and make more decisions that favor proprietary solutions. just check out how many people post on this forum about using NTFS on drives meant to be shared between different types of computers.

Firefox is probably the best success story of the last few years, as it grew from nothing to circa 10% browser market share, and in some european countries well beyond the 30% mark. Since it wasn't bundled with hardware, it wqas not an automatic update of your OS and it wasn't on store shelves we can only assume that it developed its market share out of its own merits and as a voluntary choice by the user. Still, its 10% market share is not enough for many important developers of web-applications to produce code that is not IE specific. Things are changing slowly and for the better, but do bear this in mind when stating that increasing the alternative OS market share is not a goal.

One last comment on the availability of 3rd party software for the Mac: there's stuff that I miss when I use the Mac, I'm sure that it happens the opposite when other people fire up a Windows/Linux workstation. I think you can't argue that the proportion is different though. Again, I think it's the lack of competition caused by the small market share that leads to the development of so much shareware to offer the basic functionality that you find for free elsewhere.
 
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