Looking at iMac (PC owner)

[forty2j]

"Mac isn't too bad but you're basically paying top-dollar when you could get a MUCH better PC for the same price".

Generally, the person making this claim doesn't consider that if you want that top-quality 27" IPS 2560x1440 screen from a reputable source, you're going to pay $700-$1000. (iMacs are an exceptionally poor value right now simply because neither the price nor the components have changed since May 2011. MBPs however are a great value.)

You can certainly build a Ferrari engine and put it in a plastic box for much less than the cost of a Ferrari, but that doesn't mean you have a Ferrari when you're done. The question you need to ask yourself is if you actually need (or want) the Ferrari.

 

[throAU]

It comes down to this:

The spec of the components on paper is not an accurate representation of the entire ownership experience.

You can't simply compare spec vs price for the components, because there is so much more to it than that.


Go and play with an iMac, and then go and play with a Windows PC of the same spec but cheaper. If you can, get one of the apple store peeps to give you a run down of iLife, while you're there, and a tour of OS X.

 

[iMcLovin]

Still though, wait for an update before you buy. iMac 2011 has the "apple-tax" written all over it.

 

[laserfan]

My wife and I got iPhones this spring and love them to death--they've improved the quality of our lives. But we bailed on Macs (my wife having bought a 1st gen in '85 for some $2500 bucks) after maybe 1995 or something, the last ones being PPC with DOS and IIRC a iisi? I dunno, some small, very attractive box. But we bailed cuz I got tired of problems with "system extensions".

In 2012 we have a boatload of PCs running mostly W7, and I put Snow Leopard on one of them as a virtual machine, to play with. And "play" is somehow appropriate as the MacOS strikes me as a "toy OS".

But we love our iPhones (and iPad, and iPod Touch) and are thinking we need a Mac to integrate fully with them. So a new iMac (with Mountain Lion) is on the radar screen but mostly as an iTunes, Contacts, email, syncing, backup machine.

 

[Nightarchaon]

The so-called Apple Tax is largely a myth from bygone days, and is not at all true right now. You do pay top dollar for a Mac, but that's because you're getting a high-end machine: quality material, quality components and lots of extras. The thing that makes it look like Macs cost more than PCs is that Apple does not offer a low-end machine at all. They're not interested in that market.

Sure, you can get a PC for less money, but any time you actually compare like-for-like, the Mac comes out looking very competitive price-wise. Provided PC makers even offer a machine of that caliber.

Having owned macs since 2008 i would say the apple tax most certainly DOES exist, but it pays for the development and upkeep of what shortly be (once windows 8 kills Windows as a desktop os) the only mainstream usable desktop OS.

Macs are NOT made with higher quality components, they are made with the cheapest stuff apple can get away with, apple are just better at hiding massive component failures from the buying public (1st gen time capsule, shoddy capacitors, thousands of failures, Nvidia GPU farce, thousands of failures, Ongoing issues with iMac screens not being sealed properly and sucking dust in between the LCD matrix and back light, iPad/iPhone/Macbook screen yellowing issues, the list could go on and on)

The Macs Cases, are quality machined components, but the insides, they are made from the same stock as the equivalent, and usually much cheaper PC.

I own apple, I choose to own apple, and pay the apple tax, because to me, the apple tax is the same as the Microsoft tax i used to have to pay, its the cost of an operating system i want to use.

but i will say one thing, one very very important thing, if your buying an iMac, buy APPLE CARE, and make sure you back everything up via either an external drive or a dedicated time capsule, because, like all PCs, its not a case of if it will fail, but when, and the all in one, none user repairable nature makes that when = buying a new iMac rather than replacing a failed component.

 

[Johnf1285]

Having owned macs since 2008 i would say the apple tax most certainly DOES exist, but it pays for the development and upkeep of what shortly be (once windows 8 kills Windows as a desktop os) the only mainstream usable desktop OS.

Macs are NOT made with higher quality components, they are made with the cheapest stuff apple can get away with, apple are just better at hiding massive component failures from the buying public (1st gen time capsule, shoddy capacitors, thousands of failures, Nvidia GPU farce, thousands of failures, Ongoing issues with iMac screens not being sealed properly and sucking dust in between the LCD matrix and back light, iPad/iPhone/Macbook screen yellowing issues, the list could go on and on)

The Macs Cases, are quality machined components, but the insides, they are made from the same stock as the equivalent, and usually much cheaper PC.

I own apple, I choose to own apple, and pay the apple tax, because to me, the apple tax is the same as the Microsoft tax i used to have to pay, its the cost of an operating system i want to use.

but i will say one thing, one very very important thing, if your buying an iMac, buy APPLE CARE, and make sure you back everything up via either an external drive or a dedicated time capsule, because, like all PCs, its not a case of if it will fail, but when, and the all in one, none user repairable nature makes that when = buying a new iMac rather than replacing a failed component.

I wouldn’t go as far as to say that Apple uses components that are found in cheap PCs. Most of the PCB and internal structural hardware (brackets, heat sinks, screws, even the latest unibody on nearly every Mac), is manufactured by Foxconn. Foxconn actually manufactures Intel branded motherboards, Asus motherboards, and a number of other components that some may consider higher quality than average. Then of course the computers contain your typical components found in nearly every computer – an Intel CPU, ram from Samsung or Hynix, a hard drive by Western Digital or Seagate, and a display by LG or Samsung.

The handful of Macs that I’ve worked inside of did not appear cheap by any means. Especially the Mac Pro. In addition, the only issue I have ever had on any of my Apple products since I’ve been a user of their products in 2002, has been a Western Digital Caviar Blue that took a dump on a 2007 20” iMac. This drive conked out back in 2010 so not that bad of a run. However, not that great. Spinning drives will eventually fail so it didn’t bother me too much.

The bad capacitor issue was industry wide during that time, as it was a result of corporate espionage. As for the yellowing screen issues, I haven’t had any with the 4 different iMacs I have owned.

The nvidia issue was and is annoying for many. That grinds my gears I do agree.

I do realize that some users are less fortunate though. Just my two cents.

 

[G51989]

You should really get rid of your iMac, and everything else you own with an Apple logo. You would obviously be happier with fewer worries and less stress.

Clearly. The point I'm trying to make is that to many people think Apple products are immune to failure, and its not true. The other thing about Apple, is if a major problem occurs, the seem to be less likely to address and fix the problem ( looking all the iMacg5 and tower G5 issues that were never fixed )

 

[jmpage2]

My wife and I got iPhones this spring and love them to death--they've improved the quality of our lives. But we bailed on Macs (my wife having bought a 1st gen in '85 for some $2500 bucks) after maybe 1995 or something, the last ones being PPC with DOS and IIRC a iisi? I dunno, some small, very attractive box. But we bailed cuz I got tired of problems with "system extensions".

In 2012 we have a boatload of PCs running mostly W7, and I put Snow Leopard on one of them as a virtual machine, to play with. And "play" is somehow appropriate as the MacOS strikes me as a "toy OS".

But we love our iPhones (and iPad, and iPod Touch) and are thinking we need a Mac to integrate fully with them. So a new iMac (with Mountain Lion) is on the radar screen but mostly as an iTunes, Contacts, email, syncing, backup machine.

There is nothing toy-like about OS X. In fact, pretty much every system architect, developer, and general all around "genius" that I know is using a Mac.

OS X is far more intuitive to use once you get the hang of it, it handles multi-tasking far better than Windows and is far more stable. I routinely get application hangs/crashes on my work Win7 and XP workstations if I start to load them up, this never happens with my OS X machines.

 

[laserfan]

There is nothing toy-like about OS X. In fact, pretty much every system architect, developer, and general all around "genius" that I know is using a Mac.

OS X is far more intuitive to use once you get the hang of it, it handles multi-tasking far better than Windows and is far more stable. I routinely get application hangs/crashes on my work Win7 and XP workstations if I start to load them up, this never happens with my OS X machines.

My experience with Win7 is different--I have no problems whatsoever with it. Even XP seems finally to have settled-down and works pretty well.

But I defer to the "geniuses" who need Macs to isolate themselves from the inner workings of the OS. Can't be bothered with the myriad of options available with Windoze.

I respect that the MacOS is a sophisticated OS--it just appears there are way too many GUI things that appear dumbed-down (for all those geniuses I guess). Dumb ol' me, I'd rather have more direct access to the underlying 'nix.

 

[dancj]

Excuse my ignorance, but does this mean that the current model will go down in price by much, when the new range is released?

I'm new to Macs as well , but I'm pretty sure that when the new one comes out they'll bring the new improved version out at the same price as the current one and discontinue the old one rather than giving a lower price option.

I think the refurbs of the current model will get cheaper though.

 

[JohnGrey]

But I defer to the "geniuses" who need Macs to isolate themselves from the inner workings of the OS. Can't be bothered with the myriad of options available with Windoze.

That sounds like sour grapes to me. It isn't about elitism, it's about preference. You seem to like how Windows 7 lets you interface with your personal computer. That's great. Most of us here don't.

I respect that the MacOS is a sophisticated OS--it just appears there are way too many GUI things that appear dumbed-down (for all those geniuses I guess). Dumb ol' me, I'd rather have more direct access to the underlying 'nix.

I've always found it funny that when one talks about their preferred OS, the simple things are intuitive, and when it's something else it's dumbed down. As far as having greater control over OS X's Unix environment, you have the greatest tool in the world: the Terminal. If you really want to exert that degree of control over the OS, that's what it's there for.

 

[kitcho9]

You really can't go wrong with the iMac. Since you are new to macs, when you buy, you should consider a One to One membership for each of you. This is only 99 bucks per membership and you get a great amount of value for that. You get in store one on one training (provided you live close to a store) for applications you want to learn to use proficiently. You also get on-line training. It's good for one year after which you can renew if you like.

Hi, thanks for your reply.

Can you please shed more information on this One to One membership. I've been using computers for 20 years so not sure if I need this or not. What apps do they go through? Wouldn't mind seeing some X-Code but not sure if that would be something they take you through?

Thanks

 

[jmpage2]

My experience with Win7 is different--I have no problems whatsoever with it. Even XP seems finally to have settled-down and works pretty well.

But I defer to the "geniuses" who need Macs to isolate themselves from the inner workings of the OS. Can't be bothered with the myriad of options available with Windoze.

I respect that the MacOS is a sophisticated OS--it just appears there are way too many GUI things that appear dumbed-down (for all those geniuses I guess). Dumb ol' me, I'd rather have more direct access to the underlying 'nix.

Rather funny response considering many of the people I am referring to do systems development on UNIX and are very comfortable working at the OS X terminal.

Wait, you're right. All those smart people just can't get it, that the real path to computing nirvana is getting to nerd out with the Windows Registry, fixing messed up drivers, etc. Maybe the smart people just want a computer that works.

I have seen plenty of people "defect" to Macs over the past five years... I've seen exactly zero who felt any urge whatsoever to go from their Intel generation Mac to a PC.

 

[iSayuSay]

I wouldn’t go as far as to say that Apple uses components that are found in cheap PCs. Most of the PCB and internal structural hardware (brackets, heat sinks, screws, even the latest unibody on nearly every Mac), is manufactured by Foxconn. Foxconn actually manufactures Intel branded motherboards, Asus motherboards, and a number of other components that some may consider higher quality than average. Then of course the computers contain your typical components found in nearly every computer – an Intel CPU, ram from Samsung or Hynix, a hard drive by Western Digital or Seagate, and a display by LG or Samsung.

The handful of Macs that I’ve worked inside of did not appear cheap by any means. Especially the Mac Pro. In addition, the only issue I have ever had on any of my Apple products since I’ve been a user of their products in 2002, has been a Western Digital Caviar Blue that took a dump on a 2007 20” iMac. This drive conked out back in 2010 so not that bad of a run. However, not that great. Spinning drives will eventually fail so it didn’t bother me too much.
....

Oh yes I do want to buy a MacPro. Or to be exact, want to like a MacPro. It's the only Mac with tower capabilities and freedom (well, not as much, but still..). But it also the MacPro with least dignity and proud nowadays. Least updated, least featured, least promoted.

Does Dell or HP stop sell and update their workstation just because they only sell 5 of them monthly?

The rest of Mac are just ... as many people say, walled garden. iMac, Macbook lines, MacMini and the rest of the iOS hordes surely are nice looking garden.

Just don't expect to get out as easy when it burns. You need Genius to crack open the holy garden and make it to the rescue, even if it's just a small burn.

So far I had 4 Macs since 2007, no MacPro yet unfortunately, and until now, each of them needs at least one repair job. Apple customer and warranty service is excellent as usual. But I'd like a durable machine too. I don't need a smiley Genius, or a warm welcome in the Store.
I need Apple to be at least honest about their old slogan; It just works.

Had some PC components and parts that could last up to 10 years until the day I sold it. Never had or need any repairs, worked just as good as the day I bought them. So far I couldn't see that kind of Mac. The one that need zero repair during ownership. I think I deserve it for the money I paid.

 

[panda777]

If there are Windows-based apps that you just can't do with out, just invest in a copy of VMware Fusion. It's $50 for the ESD and, running in Unity, your Mac desktop and the desktop of your Windows virtual machine are integrated.

Thanks for the tip, can you elaborate on this - what do "ESD" and "Unity" mean?

 

[JohnGrey]

Thanks for the tip, can you elaborate on this - what do "ESD" and "Unity" mean?

ESD stands for electronic software distribution. Just like an app store purchase, except you download it directly from the developer instead of through Apple's store. Unity is one of the integration modes in which VMware Fusion can operate. In normal mode, your virtualized machine (the Windows "box") appears in an application window and has the usual appearance of a Windows desktop. In Unity mode, there is no Windows desktop, Windows applications appear in the Dock, and open as though they were OS X applications.

 

[JayJayAbels]

I was a PC user for nearly 20 years. When I finally got my professional recording studio up and running I switched over. Like 5 or so years ago.

I'm sure in that time that Windows has made improvements and so forth but it would take a LOT of convincing for me to EVER switch operating systems again.

It's not JUST the OS either. It's the entire the ecosystem. The simplicity. It's just a much smoother, cleaner environment to work in. I also enjoy the fact that I don't feel pressured to install unnecessary software just to keep my computer safe. I have NEVER used ANY virus protection, of any kind, in the past 6 years and, for me, no viruses. No trojans. Now I'm sure over time some of that will change but for the most part it works like a charm.

The only caveat is about once a week or right after you install any new programs you should really "Repair Permissions" using Disk Utility.

Once you go Mac... you'll never go back.

Good luck - regardless of your choice!

 

[panda777]

ESD stands for electronic software distribution. Just like an app store purchase, except you download it directly from the developer instead of through Apple's store. Unity is one of the integration modes in which VMware Fusion can operate. In normal mode, your virtualized machine (the Windows "box") appears in an application window and has the usual appearance of a Windows desktop. In Unity mode, there is no Windows desktop, Windows applications appear in the Dock, and open as though they were OS X applications.

OK, so is this an alternative to buying MS Office for Mac?

----------

I'm new to Macs as well , but I'm pretty sure that when the new one comes out they'll bring the new improved version out at the same price as the current one and discontinue the old one rather than giving a lower price option.

I think the refurbs of the current model will get cheaper though.

Thanks, this sounds likely

 

[JohnGrey]

OK, so is this an alternative to buying MS Office for Mac?

So long as you have an unregistered license for it, you should be fine.

 

[russofris]

OK, so is this an alternative to buying MS Office for Mac?

Apple sells a package called iWork. It should handle the majority of your home-productivity needs.

If you need a full featured office package and do not desire paying money, there's LibreOffice.

If you need MS Office to maintain compatibility with work, you have a few choices.

1: Acquire MS Office for Mac
2: Install MS Office for Windows under OSX using Crossover.
3: Install Windows (either via Bootcamp or in a VM) and install Office for Windows.

F

 

[RipeRetina]

Yes, you are paying more for a Mac, but the investment is sound. You'll have your Mac a lot longer than you would a PC. Most people that I help with their Technology eventually get used to how well a Mac runs & are happy they made the switch. Just helped a lady the other day make the switch to an iMac from an old Windows XP machine. I walked her through the transfer information part, it would very smoothly. Most basic users are happy that they don't have to pay extra for anti-virus software too.

 

[thekb]

I try to be a realist in all things. I am not a wide-eyed Mac evangelist, but I do strongly prefer them. I own macs at home and use PCs at work. There are aspects to each that I love and hate.

For me the single biggest reason to go Mac at home is the time saved trying to get everything to work. In my many years of PC ownership, there were always at least one or maybe two weekends a year that were 'lost weekends' trying to fix something that was not working right. I spent hours and hours diagnosing and fixing things, such as networking issues. With the iMac, for 2.5 years I have not had to go through that even once. How much is that worth to me? Much more than the apple tax costs.

If you want to get your hands dirty WORKING on your computer, then a PC is the way to go. If you want to spend your time actually USING your computer, then I recommend a Mac.

 

[Johnf1285]

I try to be a realist in all things. I am not a wide-eyed Mac evangelist, but I do strongly prefer them. I own macs at home and use PCs at work. There are aspects to each that I love and hate.

For me the single biggest reason to go Mac at home is the time saved trying to get everything to work. In my many years of PC ownership, there were always at least one or maybe two weekends a year that were 'lost weekends' trying to fix something that was not working right. I spent hours and hours diagnosing and fixing things, such as networking issues. With the iMac, for 2.5 years I have not had to go through that even once. How much is that worth to me? Much more than the apple tax costs.

If you want to get your hands dirty WORKING on your computer, then a PC is the way to go. If you want to spend your time actually USING your computer, then I recommend a Mac.

This is why I am throwing in the towel on my gaming pc days. Fun to work on, upgrade, troubleshoot (after tinkering/overclocking), etc. But now, time is more and more important to me. I am starting to pursue a lot of side work related to the field I am in, and I rather spend that time I spent messing around with hardware, actually working instead to earn extra cash.

Just waiting until whatever most recent iMac comes out, whenever it does, at this point.

 

[iMacFarlane]

My nickel's worth:

Long time PC user here, all the way back to a 486SX20 desktop / 386SX25 laptop back in 1992 (if you don't know what those numbers mean, good for you).

The major selling point of the PC was always it's 'upgradeability'. So I would buy (at a premium) a mid-range PC with the thought of eventually upgrading it. After a year or two, when the software would turn my computer into goo, I would start the upgrade game. Bigger HDD, more RAM, new processor? It would always inevitably degenerate into this: For $1000 more than all these upgrades, I can just get a whole new system! Rinse. Repeat. Upgrading is overrated. The iMac you buy today (or in x months) will be awesome, and very capable for the next 5 years, I promise. Not so with Windows boxes.

The software bundled with your new purchase? All of the PC's of my past were increasingly loaded with gimped versions of shovelware and demos. So bad that on my last PC, to do a system restore, I would re-image the HDD to factory contents (about 20 minutes) and then spend another 2 hours un-installing upwards of 20 programs infesting my computer. Terrible.

On your Mac, the bundled software is AMAZING. It's rare that one of those jaw-dropping moments occurs nowadays. But here you go. My son was trying to learn how to play the guitar. We bought him an acoustic. I remembered something about 'Garage Band' on my Mac having tutorials for Piano and Guitar. He tries to play along, but the guitar is terribly out of tune. I don't have a tuning fork, so attempted to manually tune it. It was then I noticed 'Tune' on the computer. I clicked it and the frets and strings of a guitar are displayed, along with a messge, "Pick the highlighted string on your guitar". I do. The string on the guitar ON THE COMPUTER vibrates, and the iMac shows a graphic of how out of tune the string is, then adjusts as I tune it. Within one minute, the guitar is tuned and my son is playing along with the tutorials. Just . . . wow.

 

[Dirtyharry50]

I agree about the included software really being excellent and useful. All I needed to buy was Pages, Numbers, Things and grab EverNote for free and I was set for applications. Of course I could not resist other fun stuff like games but all the basics were covered very easily since the Mac comes with so much great software.

I enjoyed the story above about the boy with the guitar. I have one of my own also about GarageBand. My 30 years of acoustic guitar playing ended sadly with a surgery on my left arm which left my left hand unable to grasp the strings hard enough to play properly. I was pretty sad about that loss as you might imagine. I still play the harmonica which I used to play together with the guitar but by itself its not quite the same.

Before I got my iMac I had heard about GarageBand and decided to look into it further so with the help of Google I did just that. I noticed it included guitar and piano lessons and thought to myself, well I can't hold down strings hard enough but I can press keys on a keyboard okay. I should learn a new instrument and my new Mac can help me! So I bought a midi keyboard and pedal and now I am ready to begin learning to play music again, this time on piano! It is also very cool that GarageBand is something of a electronic recording studio too so you can have lots of fun putting together multi-track compositions with it.

When I was running Windows I would have considered GarageBand a good buy at over a hundred dollars but with the Mac it is just one of many excellent apps included with the computer. That's value. As I said before, people tend to forget to take the software into account when comparing just PC versus Mac hardware. In my opinion there is no contest. Mac wins.