This delay with the new iMac and the lack of a new mac pro for years should scare off anyone from going to mac from windows. What's going to happen three years from now when you want a new computer? Guess you'll have to wait until a new Mac comes out or buy an outdated model at top prices. You're at the mercy of apple. Apple is great at mobile computing, but don't go to Mac from Windows now.
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Looking at iMac (PC owner)
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I agree OSX has a nice package on it. It can be made dead simple, or elegantly complicated with Terminal and all of that.
But really, why limiting the power over the hardware?
What's wrong with maintaining and updating a nice computer like MacPro properly?
What's wrong with using more respectable and reasonable hardware like high-end GPUs or MacPro with i7?
Why caters lightweight computing market like iPad, iPhone or Macbook so much? What's so special about them?
People who need MacPro are willing to pay top dollar for a nice and up to date boxes, much higher than typical rich momma's boy with Macbook or iPad. They deserve more than this. If at all, they're the main customers, VIPs.
I know computing trend is going toward mobile devices. But even after 20 years or so, notebooks haven't been able to completely replace desktop.
So .. what's wrong with selling more powerful options?
But really, why limiting the power over the hardware?
What's wrong with maintaining and updating a nice computer like MacPro properly?
What's wrong with using more respectable and reasonable hardware like high-end GPUs or MacPro with i7?
Why caters lightweight computing market like iPad, iPhone or Macbook so much? What's so special about them?
People who need MacPro are willing to pay top dollar for a nice and up to date boxes, much higher than typical rich momma's boy with Macbook or iPad. They deserve more than this. If at all, they're the main customers, VIPs.
I know computing trend is going toward mobile devices. But even after 20 years or so, notebooks haven't been able to completely replace desktop.
So .. what's wrong with selling more powerful options?
This poster is bang on.
I was the same when I first bought PCs. Every two years, I would drop $1500-$2000 into a new computer.. I always bought with the intention of upgrading but never did.. always Ebay'd my old computer and started fresh again.
I bought my first iMac in 2007 and I haven't looked back since. In fact, I'm using my iMac right now to type you this message... 5+ years later!!! I haven't upgraded and haven't felt the urge too up until now.
Mountain Lion is the last OS refresh that I will be able to stick on this machine... so with that, it's time. Not because it's slow or unresponsive... just I have the urge to upgrade. I hate being at the back of the pack!
Do IT! Do IT! DO IT!
For the same reason that Apple doesn't license OS X for unapproved hardware: stability. Very often, the newest high-end components feature technologies that are unsupported, causing the OS to behave in a buggy fashion.
It's numbers, pure and simple. Mobile computing accounted for 72.6% of Apple's revenues as of Q2. A further 10.4% was provided by portables. Desktops accounted for only 3.7% of revenues. Now, this is understandable, as I've stated before, because with Apple's mobiles solutions you have a basically a perfect storm of opportunity. You have cross-demographic appeal (most people want a smartphone or lightweight tablet), low cost (they're among the cheapest of Apple's devices), and low technical overhead (unlike a computer, the require very little intelligence or training to use most of its effective features). It's no wonder that they are the bulk of Apple's sales and revenues, and why Apple's priority in the near-term is the success of its mobile platform, especially in the face increasingly hostile competition.
Pro computing is a niche market. With the exception of wealthy tech people, the vast majority of purchases in the pro class come from business requisitions. The simple fact is that, despite the higher income per unit sold, the overall revenue is a fraction of mobile/portable computing, and probably sub-30% of desktops overall. They simply don't move as often. The pro market is an important one that Apple can't afford to lose, especially being looked upon as the graphic design/media composition platform. That said, from the beginning, Apple's primary focus has been about computing for the common man. In 1976, it was about moving computers from hobbyists' basements to the family room of the American household. Now, it's about computers being a part of our lives no matter where we are, and that means mobile computing.
I agree that Pro workstation is a niche market. Maybe that's why I called them VIPs, they're supposed to be small numbers.
But, just because Lamborghini doesn't build a $20,000 city car doesn't mean people wouldn't buy them now, does it?
Apple doesn't need to give MacPro as much thoughts, development and resources, Pro workstation is a well-maintained and settled tech.
That kind of people wouldn't mind if their dual CPUs run off 130 watt TDP each or a staggering 1000 watt PSU. As long as it's super fast, serve their purpose, more raw powers, and have all the latest tech. It's really THAT niche.
The bigger, the better. Period.
And as far as I can see, the current quad MP is a piece of junk. A $2500 box with not-so-powerful, not-so-latest tech inside.
So .. I don't see it's going to harm Apple in anyway by giving the options and updating MacPro with today's technology. With that kind of resource, simple annual updates and refresh certainly won't hurt. No need for special events, or conference like iPad or iPhone has.
It's frustrating to see the way Apple behaves. Sure 80% of their sales coming from iOS. But catering a small portion of pro market would only make a few more people happier. And not just any people, but also a few important pros. So, why not
But, just because Lamborghini doesn't build a $20,000 city car doesn't mean people wouldn't buy them now, does it?
Apple doesn't need to give MacPro as much thoughts, development and resources, Pro workstation is a well-maintained and settled tech.
That kind of people wouldn't mind if their dual CPUs run off 130 watt TDP each or a staggering 1000 watt PSU. As long as it's super fast, serve their purpose, more raw powers, and have all the latest tech. It's really THAT niche.
The bigger, the better. Period.
And as far as I can see, the current quad MP is a piece of junk. A $2500 box with not-so-powerful, not-so-latest tech inside.
So .. I don't see it's going to harm Apple in anyway by giving the options and updating MacPro with today's technology. With that kind of resource, simple annual updates and refresh certainly won't hurt. No need for special events, or conference like iPad or iPhone has.
It's frustrating to see the way Apple behaves. Sure 80% of their sales coming from iOS. But catering a small portion of pro market would only make a few more people happier. And not just any people, but also a few important pros. So, why not
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Apples and oranges, my friend, no pun intended. The Lambo has two of the three things I mentioned previously that give a product great marketability. Cross-demo appeal (it's a status symbol) and low technical overhead. If you can drive a stick shift, you can drive a Lambo. Not well, perhaps, but you've got the basics before you even set foot in the vehicle. Whether for power usage or content authoring, the average person doesn't understand how to properly use such a system. They do not have a fundamentally different experience than they would with a consumer-grade desktop because they do not possess the skill to use the system to its full potential. Therefore, to and for the average consumer, the Mac Pro does not display a greater innate value than Apple's basic consumer desktop.
Again, I don't disagree with you in principle and there are definitely power users that want those things. But they make up a much smaller percentage of Apple's customer base. As a business, Apple cannot cater to those people to the detriment of their other product classes.
And as far as I can see, the current quad MP is a piece of junk. A $2500 box with not-so-powerful, not-so-latest tech inside.
So .. I don't see it's going to harm Apple in anyway by giving the options and updating MacPro with today's technology. With that kind of resource, simple annual updates and refresh certainly won't hurt. No need for special events, or conference like iPad or iPhone has.
It's frustrating to see the way Apple behaves. Sure 80% of their sales coming from iOS. But catering a small portion of pro market would only make a few more people happier. And not just any people, but also a few important pros. So, why not
Again, it's business. Apple does not have the time or resources to make a platform that every class of user is going to consider perfect. It's just infeasible. And it's not just a question of POS; the pro market isn't just smaller, the time between purchases tends to be higher as well because the increased performance means greater longevity. Beyond simply retaining that customer segment, Apple has no real vested interest economically.
Thanks John, I already have Parallels installed, did setup a Windows 7 VM from my Bootcamp partition. Had issues with Windows wanting activation again, so gave up. Can't be bothered going through the Windows activation again on software that is already activated on Bootcamp. Last time I spoke to Microsoft Activation had real communication issues and eventually gave up! Maybe my Aussie accent!
You're supposed to have to reactivate stuff once in parallels (in addition to the first time in bootcamp) after that it should be fine. Always has been for me anyway.
I use the automated phone system. I end up using it a lot because I change systems frequently. It only takes a moment but you have to type a lot of numbers into your phone. I've never had to speak to a real person.
To sum it up it one word the grand reason....... drum roll please!............. Money.
This is my thoery, Apple makes new mac, user buys it keeps it for 2-3 years then gets another one. Leaving Apple with maximum profit, if they allowed upgrades Apple wouldn't make much out of their mac lineup and probably cease production. I've made the switch but I'm probably going to hang on to my iMac for a little while longer.
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/campaigns/onetoone
You can read about it here. They give 1 on 1 training for any Apple apps that you care to learn more about.
I am new to this forum also and have bought my iMac a few weeks ago.
I have been a Windows PC user, ever since I started using the internet, about 13 years ago.
While I was not exactly unhappy with Windows, I have always wanted to try out Apple for my computer needs as well.
After using my iPhone, iPod touch and iPad 2 for some time, I finally wanted to add an iMac to my "toys" to have an all Apple experience.
I am now typing this on my 21.5" iMac and couldn't be happier!
Everything is running so smooth and interaction between my apple devices is great.
Apart from the great looks of my Mac it also runs so snappy and I really love the OSX and being able to add apps to it, to be able to use iCloud to have all my stuff automatically sync on my iPhone, iMac, etc.
When I first got my Mac, I wanted to start putting my contacts into it only to discover that they were already all synced from iPhone.
It is these little things that make me so sure that the switch was the right thing to do. I do not miss having to run defrag all the time and all the programs needed for maintenance or having to search for drivers all the time and have a ton of cords stacked behind and on top of my desk. Getting a new Windows set up usually meant to spend quite some time in "msconfig" to try and customize it to my needs and to rid the system off all the stuff I did not like about it, here I hooked the Mac up and had it connected to the internet in a mere 5 mins.
I still own and use my Windows laptop but whenever I switch to it, after using the Mac, it just feels like something is lacking and I already find myself trying to swipe my regular laptop mouse, the way I do my magic mouse lol.
Windows is a good system and I used to build my own rigs but somehow apple just gives it that extra which makes the experience that much better.
I think, especially, when someone already owns apple products like iPhone or iPad it makes even more sense to switch.
I have been a Windows PC user, ever since I started using the internet, about 13 years ago.
While I was not exactly unhappy with Windows, I have always wanted to try out Apple for my computer needs as well.
After using my iPhone, iPod touch and iPad 2 for some time, I finally wanted to add an iMac to my "toys" to have an all Apple experience.
I am now typing this on my 21.5" iMac and couldn't be happier!
Everything is running so smooth and interaction between my apple devices is great.
Apart from the great looks of my Mac it also runs so snappy and I really love the OSX and being able to add apps to it, to be able to use iCloud to have all my stuff automatically sync on my iPhone, iMac, etc.
When I first got my Mac, I wanted to start putting my contacts into it only to discover that they were already all synced from iPhone.
It is these little things that make me so sure that the switch was the right thing to do. I do not miss having to run defrag all the time and all the programs needed for maintenance or having to search for drivers all the time and have a ton of cords stacked behind and on top of my desk. Getting a new Windows set up usually meant to spend quite some time in "msconfig" to try and customize it to my needs and to rid the system off all the stuff I did not like about it, here I hooked the Mac up and had it connected to the internet in a mere 5 mins.
I still own and use my Windows laptop but whenever I switch to it, after using the Mac, it just feels like something is lacking and I already find myself trying to swipe my regular laptop mouse, the way I do my magic mouse lol.
Windows is a good system and I used to build my own rigs but somehow apple just gives it that extra which makes the experience that much better.
I think, especially, when someone already owns apple products like iPhone or iPad it makes even more sense to switch.
#3, not true, and apple does not make their own anyway. I have placed aftermarket HDs in all kinds of Macs - laptops, iMacs, towers, pizza box styles, servers, etc.
#4 is true of any compactly designed computer that uses high performance parts. They all have to cool. Unless it is a well designed tower, like a Mac Pro, If the fans don't kick on I would suspect some sort of failure or low-performance parts.
#5 not true, you can take pretty much any mac into an apple store and they will trouble shoot it for you. Might not fix it for an older one, but they are known to help any Mac owner with an issue.
#7 is absolutely not true. I have had numerous experiences with Apple customer care for over 25 years and they are great. They are consistently ranked the highest in the industry, I think the highest for the last 5-7 years. So, by your logic, if you buy into any other vendor you will get a worse experience. That would be horrible advice!
As far as serious machines go, I am not sure what you mean. I know multi million dollar companies that run their entire enterprise with Macs and iPads and iPhones. You know, like iOS developers. And lots and lots of ad agencies. I don't think that an agency with a $200 million Coca-Cola account would trust their time and investment without thinking about it. I have been in nothing by Mac shops my entire career, all seems good to me, and I think that the Macs of today are by far the best ever. Sales figures say the same too!
Not true, the newer iMacs require a hard drive that you buy from Apple, ( they dont MAKE the hard drive ), with that silly little thermal sensor in it.
Ever seen that HP Z1? Much better performance than the iMac, only slightly thicker, and nots not loud! A mac pro isn't better or worse than any workstation tower ( well performance wise, it is worse ).
True, Apple might fix your old hardware for a fee. But, when it comes to software support, if ML, Lion, SL, and Lepord were any indication, Hardware 4-5 years old more often than not gets dropped, where Linux/Microsoft OS's tend to support machines up to 10 years old. Sometimes even older depending on specs of the machine. With Apple, you get dumped quickly.
The vendors that I deal with tend to be much smaller ( hell the place i work at uses a ton of computers from www.gamepc.com , ), they're customer service is above and beyond what I've gotten from Apple over the years, HP and dell? yeah it might be worse.
Im talking performance, for serious users. With serious performance needs, serious flexibility, and ease of repair? No. Apple currently offers nothing performance capable, the Mac pro is a joke.
Yes, you can use Macs for some enterprise envirioments, and thats great and all. But the vast majority of business's use Windows machines, and Windows or Nix ( of some kind ) for their enterprise networking.
Thats not to say Apple's are bad for enterprise...because well. Apple doesn't make anything enterprise grade besides the phone. And as far as a serious workstation goes. It just doesn't exist in the Apple world.
I've been buying Macs brand new snice the G4 days. ( expensive for a college kid ). And I've ran PCs, I like them both. But as far as hardware and build quailty goes? And with OSX going downhill? I can say my 2011 iMac is the worst Mac I've owned snice I bought my 2.5 Quad G5 ( that thing ended up in the shop....alot )
Among my professional software developer colleagues, by now the majority is using Macs as their private computers. There is universal agreement that you can get a PC at a lower price than the cheapest Mac, but you can't get a better PC at the same price. And among those people in the company who get company laptops with Windows, anyone who can do anything about will get a MacBook Air, because you can't get a comparable laptop at the same price.
Even with the new Retina MBP, checking for example Dell PCs with _comparable_ specs showed that they were actually more expensive (comparable processor, same RAM and SSD drive, lower resolution obviously, much heavier and unknown battery life).
Haha yeah the guy in the bottom right looking the other way has some black Windows machine.
Those were probably donated. You think NASA actually bought those MBPs with tax payer money??? Yah right, they would have thrown Obama in jail for treason if that happened!!!
Most of those people probably enjoy using OS X enough that they provide their own hardware. I work with a lot of people that have gotten fed up with MS Windows and the crappy StinkPads that we are issued and have bought their own MBPs for use here at work.
If someone is willing to shell out for their own laptop when the company they work for will provide one, that in itself is quite a statement about either how good Apple hardware/software is or how bad MS Windows and OEM hardware is.
Buying professional grade gear from Apple is treason, but from another company is not?
Remember that spec-for-spec, MBPs are actually a very good value. The windows box in the picture probably cost about the same as the MBPs, if it has comparable internals. And I don't think NASA would be using 10-year-old P4 laptops.
You can upgrade the CPU,RAM,GPU and HDD though it is not easy(except fot RAM) it is still possible.
The aluminium gets hot because it is designed to to stop the hardware overheating and getting fried.
Just because an OS is old doesn't mean it's bad,look at leopard there is apps still being developed and supported(for PowerPC,so there's is probably more for intel).
Apple support is good for most people.
The HP Z1 is a WORKSTATION AIO not a Con/Prosumer machine