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Looking for first Mac, what should dad get??

Re: Looking for first Mac, what should dad get??

Originally posted by VoodooDaddy
Ideally my price range is say $400-500, I really don't want to go beyond that as any more and I should just pop for the cheapest new ibook at $999 (or less off ebay).
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Seems simple to me. Stay within your price range, go to eBay, and grab a Mac within the spec you're willing to spend.

It's not the best way to introduce yourself to the Macintosh, because, obviously, new machines are generally superior to older ones.

Clamshell iBook, CRT iMac, whatever. What I'm hearing here is a PRICE issue, not a model issue. If you see an old iBook or old iMac for 500 bucks, go for it.

All I fear is that you're going to get a used machine from a stranger and you're going to be disappointed and therefore conclude that Macs are NOT the way to go and you'll continue to build PC boxes for a thousand bucks that take care of your every need.

Sounds fair to me.
 
Voodoo:

Here's my advice. You want to try a mac, for yourself right? OK, just go and buy (off ebay or something) an older G4 tower. 400Mhz G4 is fine for OS X. The only thing that might slow it down is an old and slow HD and an old ATI card, both of which can be replaced cheaply and easily.

I have a 3-year old G4 cube, and I've switched the video to a Geforce2 MX, added 512 RAM, and a fast WD HD with 8MB cache, thats it, and OS X runs absolutely fine for what your saying.
Programs load in about 2-3 seconds on average, its really just as fast as those emacs etc. and you can find those old G4 towers for less than 500-or-so dollars.

Really, if all you want is to try it, an older G4 tower is probably (unless its broke) JUST FINE.
 
thanks Fukui, thats something that I hadnt even looked at (the G4 tower) and it seems to fall under my price range more than the older ibooks (I guess portability still drives the price of those)

Will those towers work with any type of monitor?
 
Yea, standard VGA/DVI stuff, it should be fine though those cards might be too weak for Quartz extreme...

Also, they might not have OS X.2 loaded in them, but alot do. Some even are loaded with 1.5GB ram (!) and still are around 500 dollars. Besides, I think most people who are used to building PC's find a tower to be better. And iBook HD's are slower than slime anyway...
 
Originally posted by VoodooDaddy
I just think its a very high probability that I wont switch completely. I may use both, probably use the pc twice as much as the mac, but I'd at least like to try mac.
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Once you tried a mac you wont go back! Seriously, as a switcher, I assure you it is just a pleasure to work on a Mac with Jaguar, and the time spent on your PC will drop and drop.

Fom my experience of OS9 in Classic, Jaguar is a quantum leap in computing, and as I did, you can read around the subject, but till you see it in action...
 
Originally posted by job
That statement is pure BS. I'm running OS X with 8MB of VRAM on my iMac DV.
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That is BS, I am running 10.2.6 on my iMac DV with no problems. I put 512MB of RAM in it and it runs it very well. Not like a new computer would, but decent for day to day tasks, Safari, IE, Mail, iTunes, Keynote, MS Office, iPhoto (slow but fully functional), etc. The only thing that it has problems with is iMovie.

If you want a cheap Mac just to try out I would recommend a G3 400Mhz+ (or any G4) with plenty of RAM. You just have to remember it is not new and it will run like an older PC for speed. It is completely usable and enjoyable. I still love using my iMac, and have no speed issues for most tasks. I would like a new eMac, but this one just won't break down.

One other bit of advice. If you want a cheap Mac, a used desktop, is a much better choice then an old Clamshell. I think you will find running OSX is much better on either a B&W G3, iMac DV or older Graphite G4. Those models would fit easily in your price range and have decent performance to get your feet wet.
 
At the risk of offending what seems to be a gaggle of Mac salespeople in the house, buy a beige G3 VooDoo. I have one of the old G3 266 models running 10.2.6 and it works fine. It slows a bit on occasion, but that's to be expected from a machine that old. I am going to make the leap and guess that you will understand that a new dual G4 would run faster.

For the purpose of learning what Jaguar is all about, one of these will do just fine. They can be had from ebay for around $100. Then you can get an adaptor and a cheap A/B monitor switch and just use your existing PC monitor.
 
Originally posted by rfgecko33
At the risk of offending what seems to be a gaggle of Mac salespeople in the house, buy a beige G3 VooDoo. I have one of the old G3 266 models running 10.2.6 and it works fine. It slows a bit on occasion, but that's to be expected from a machine that old. I am going to make the leap and guess that you will understand that a new dual G4 would run faster.

For the purpose of learning what Jaguar is all about, one of these will do just fine. They can be had from ebay for around $100. Then you can get an adaptor and a cheap A/B monitor switch and just use your existing PC monitor.
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now this is of interest to me. ALL I want out of this mac is funtional internet, music manipulation with iTunes(I have an iPod), use of digital photo management, and the occasional use of photoshop. That is ALL I want. Im not looking for something to run any games, Im not looking for something to run some cad program or any digital video editing or anything that requires a high end processor/ram/video card.

I would like something that will run OS X fairly well without alot of slowdown. For what its worth, I had an old pc, P3 450mhz, 16mb video card, 128mb ram. I was curious to see how Win XP ran on it because that pc was at the minimum recommendation. Well, it ran just fine. A tad slower on boot or shutdown, a touch slower opening certain apps, but basically for the basic functions I used it for it was fine. Surely OS X could run decent on a low end machine as long as its within minimum specs.

And on that note...can someone please explain the different os'es to me. Whats the difference between 10, 10.1, 10.1.5, 10.2, Jaguar, OS X, etc.... Which one is the one I would want???
 
Originally posted by VoodooDaddy
And on that note...can someone please explain the different os'es to me. Whats the difference between 10, 10.1, 10.1.5, 10.2, Jaguar, OS X, etc.... Which one is the one I would want???
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Definately get Jaguar. OS X, unlike Windows, is updated much more often mostly because it was such a new system Apple had a lot of bugs to work out. Jaguar works very well on older systems, I had a 266Mhz iMac and OS X was impracticaly slow until 10.2 Jaguar came out. It might even be worth your while to wait for Panther (10.3) and see if it will be any more optomized. Just my 2 cents.
 
It's interesting that you bring up running XP on a P3 450, because that is very similar to what you will experience running Jaguar on the older G3's. Also, just like the P3 - XP machine, the old G3 running Jaguar will love all the RAM you can feed it.

As far as the number's game that is OSX, you will want Jaguar. I believe the current version after all the updates is 10.2.6. There are already a few things out there that require 10.2 to install, so you might as well start ahead of the game. To reference you back to Windows, think of the first OSX, 10.0.X as Windows XP. OSX 10.1.X would be Windows XP with Service Pack 1. OSX Jaguar 10.2.X would be Longhorn or whatever Microsoft is readying for release. That's how I see it. Anyone else feel free to correct me.
 
I think the best idea is to get the eMac. A new one because it will come with lots of good Mac os X software ready to go. If you have to go out and find it all yourself it will take time. Some of the software you never would have thought you needed and wouldn't have bought on your own. Upgrading os 9 software to os X software cost me a lot of money. Also buying an external cdrw, ram, and eventually an external HD have cost a damn fortune. Save yourself the time and money. Get the new eMac.
 
And on that note...can someone please explain the different os'es to me. Whats the difference between 10, 10.1, 10.1.5, 10.2, Jaguar, OS X, etc.... Which one is the one I would want???
Click to expand...
10 was the first version after public beta, its feature list, like quartz graphics etc was implemented, but the OS was not at all optomized (and S.J made no bones about it), 10.1 was a free upgrade and made OS X fast enough to actually use. 10.1.5 was the last free upgrade before Jaguar (10.2) this added most if not all the missing API's and improved perfomance, and file journaling etc that OS X needed. As long as you have jaguar (a.k.a 10.2) you can get free upgrades to 10.2.x through the internet. I wouldnt get a beige G3 or something as old as that, they cant even run OS 9 (apple's version of DOS j/k) very well. I'd say any G4 tower would be good enough, even one as low as 350 mhz, as long as its got >256MB of RAM.
 
Yeah, a G4 tower is your best bet voodoo. Beige G3 will be okay, but they were a little temperamental in regards to OS X. It took a long time to get it installed on mine. Also, I would probably not be running OS X on it if I had not put a g4/400 chip upgrade in it. You say you have an iPod, well you're gonna need a tower or newer iBook/iMac cos you need firewire ports.

Anyway, with a tower you can put a bucket load of RAM in it, it has an AGP slot (earlier than G4 towers do not) so if you liek it you can put a killer graphics card, even if its a 400 model you can put a dual 1.2 ghz processor card in it.

Make sure you don't get the yikes model, this was a short term model that did not have AGP graphics and is not as upgradeable.
 
Apple Store?

I don't know if anyone has recommended this, but depending on where you live you could visit an Apple Store and try out a mac as long as you want for free! If that is your only worry about purchasing a new machine I would make sure you use one first. If you aren't near an Apple Store, I'm sure you could find someone with a mac that would let you play around with it. Good Luck!
 
Good Old Mac

Originally posted by VoodooDaddy
ALL I want out of this mac is funtional internet, music manipulation with iTunes(I have an iPod), use of digital photo management, and the occasional use of photoshop. That is ALL I want.
-snip-
And on that note...can someone please explain the different os'es to me. Whats the difference between 10, 10.1, 10.1.5, 10.2, Jaguar, OS X, etc.... Which one is the one I would want???
Click to expand...

iPod mothership, PhotoShop, Internet: A cheap Blue & White G3 tower can do that all day long. The B&W has all of the proper connectors built in.
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OS-10.anything is OS-X. The capital "X" in "OS-X" stands for the number ten, lower-case "x" is a revision number. 10.2.6 is the current version of Mac OS X. 10.2 is also known as Jaguar, 10.2.x is an update to Jaguar. The name "Jaguar" helps tech-ies know that you are current.

The Jaguar Installer CD's have all of the programs you need, except PhotoShop and Scanner drivers. Many cameras are supported by iPhoto.

iTunes 4 and iPod updaters are free updater downloads.
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Any OS with a number smaller than 10.2.6 is an older OS.

You want to start with 10.2, even if you have to buy the Jaguar Installer CD-set from the Apple Store. Then you want to update to 10.2.6 by downloading the combo updater from Apple.com. The 10.2.6 combo updater includes all of the previous updaters. It's a huge file, 86 meg.

The physical Apple Store will let you bring in your Mac, and use the store's hi-speed T-1 internet connection to download those really big files. They will provide the monitor and USB keyboard & USB mouse. Call ahead for advice about bringing in an old ADB (round plug) keyboard and mouse.

No time limit on the connection. I downloaded updates to Illustrator, PhotoShop, and everything too big for dial-up. I was there for three hours.
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The Blue & White tower can run 10.2.6. The Blue & White can also boot to OS 9.2.2, or use 9.2.2 as Classic for older Mac applications. 9.2.2 is the last version of the old-fashioned MacOS, hence "Classic".

When you buy the Blue & White, make sure that the original CD's are included.
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The Blue & White tower can be upgraded with all kinds of hardware, if you want to. Depends on your pocketbook.

I do recommend that you add as many cheap PC-100 ram chips as you can afford. The Blue & White can take 4 chips. Total: 1028 meg. 512 meg is enough.

What Apple doen't tell you:
iPod support: a 30 gig iPod needs to be supported by a computer with a 60 gig hard drive. Two music CD's can take more than 1 gig of space on a hard drive. Do the math: two blank CD's can hold 1500meg of data files.

And PhotoShop files are never small.

Consider an 80-120 gig 7200 RPM buffered hard drive. You can get one at any computer store. Yes, the B&W uses ATA hard drives, just like a PC.

And the Blue & White is at the low-end of your price range.
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JJ
 
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