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pipetogrep

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Jan 27, 2021
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Hi all,

I'm in the market for some more powerful G4 upgrades. Specifically I'm looking for either a Sonnet 1.8 GHz Duet or a PowerLogix dual 1.8 GHz or 2 GHz upgrade.

I've been searching eBay, Mercari, and OfferUp. The best I've found is a Sonnet single 1.8 GHz CPU. I bought it but would love to see how far I can push this PowerMac G4 Gigabit.

Does anyone know of anywhere else I could look?

Thanks!
 
I am wondering too since I am looking for a faster processor for the PowerMac G4 Mirror Door, which are even rarer. Hardly any accelerators were made for that model. The only real upgrades are probably the Sonnet MDX Duet and they are probably very rare and probably very expensive. All the other upgrades are for other models. Even the faster PowerPC G4 Dual 1.42 GHz with a copper heat sink might be easier to find, although still rare.

Still, it was hard enough finding a working NVidia Geforce 4 Ti 4600, but I am still on the lookout for a dual 1.25 or 1.42 GHz processor module.
 
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Ebay is probably still the main place to find these, but none of them will be new and ebay is basically the same as amazon now. There are a few places that are closer to what ebay used to be. Simple web searches will turn up some alternatives that are not so overtly commercial:

www.webretailer.com/b/ebay-alternatives/
 
Hi all,

I'm in the market for some more powerful G4 upgrades. Specifically I'm looking for either a Sonnet 1.8 GHz Duet or a PowerLogix dual 1.8 GHz or 2 GHz upgrade.

I've been searching eBay, Mercari, and OfferUp. The best I've found is a Sonnet single 1.8 GHz CPU. I bought it but would love to see how far I can push this PowerMac G4 Gigabit.

Does anyone know of anywhere else I could look?

Thanks!
Ebay is about the best place to look, but these Dual 7447a/7448 CPU's don't come up that often, and will cost you plenty when they do.

The truth is any Dual G5 will out preform them because of the Bus and Memory limitations of the G4, so unless you just really need to run OS 9 native, you'd be far better off buying a dual G5 or a quad g5 for about the same price a Dual 7447a/7448 G4.

Even the top end Quad Core G5 is beyond obsolete at this point, you just have to ask yourself how much use you can get out of an obsolete computer. If you have OS 9 software that can benefit from a dual cpu, you're likely just better off with a Dual 1.42 Ghz MDD, as you will not see much gain from the extra clock speed of the 1.8 GHz Dual CPU given the slower BUS and Memory speeds of the Gig-E.

I know, there is the cool factor, but are you willing to put out $350-$500 just to say you have the fastest OS 9 machine of all time?
 
The truth is any Dual G5 will out preform them because of the Bus and Memory limitations of the G4, .....
There is always a faster machine that what you currently have. The point of being into retro technology is you get to pick the point in time that you want to experience. I prefer the G4 era.

I know, there is the cool factor, but are you willing to put out $350-$500 just to say you have the fastest OS 9 machine of all time?

Not gonna lie, I already have spent well over that much on this machine in CPU and other upgrades. It's less the cool factor and more I have an emotional attachment to this machine. This one machine means a lot to me.

It's been passed around between 4 friends in various parts of the USA for over a decade. In 2007-2008 I upgraded it to be capable of running Leopard and it was my daily driver for a little while. It's been resurrected 3 times now and it's been an absolute joy to have as a project and to use. I just recently got it back again.

So yeah, I'm fortunate to have some spare cash for hobbies and I want to use some of it to make this the biggest baddest PowerMac G4 Gigabit that could ever exist. Then there's that I really enjoy playing with G4 CPU upgrades. I just think they're neat.

In summary obsolete doesn't matter. X outperforms X doesn't matter. What matters is I want to, I can, and I'm having fun. That should be reason enough for anybody here.
 
I've been down your road. I never cared about OS9, but there was a time when my daily driver was a maxed out Quicksilver.

The problem with eBay now for aftermarket CPU upgrades is that there is one or two specific vendors that snapped up all the independent auction sales of these. These vendors have then turned around and jacked up the prices.

Unfortunately, the supply itself has also started to dry up. But these never had a large amount of sales even when on the market.

I paid $250 for my Duet, but I was fortunate because I managed to see the sale before it got snapped up. You can expect to pay about $350-400 now.
 
I paid $250 for my Duet, but I was fortunate because I managed to see the sale before it got snapped up. You can expect to pay about $350-400 now.
Yep. I paid about $300 for a single core 1.8 GHz Sonnet upgrade. It sucks but I guess it is what it is right now.
 
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Personally I would love to have something faster than the Dual 1.25 GHz CPU card I upgraded my MDD to, but I'm really starting to appreciate how lucky I was to even be able to get my hands on that at all, never mind the price I got it for.
 
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Personally I would love to have something faster than the Dual 1.25 GHz CPU card I upgraded my MDD to, but I'm really starting to appreciate how lucky I was to even be able to get my hands on that at all, never mind the price I got it for.
No kidding. Is yours a powerlogix? If so they are pretty easy to overclock.
 
No kidding. Is yours a powerlogix? If so they are pretty easy to overclock.
Nah, it's just a stock part. But I did get it through another user here, who saw it on UK eBay, and sent it to me. Tbh, if you have access to a G5, even a low end one, there's pretty clearly a point where you don't need to upgrade a G4 you have. After all, you're almost never going to beat that G5. That said, it's not nearly as hard to match a low end G5 with a high end G4 if you start with an MDD!
 
Honestly, I highly recommend you to get your own custom upgrade, especially if you care about the original Mac OS.

It will surpass any "main market" 3rd party upgrade like Sonnet's or PowerLogix'/newertechnology's, as it's the only way you can run the best 32-bit PowerPC CPU (7448/7457, be it single or dual) on the best Mac machine capable of running those systems (MDD, and even the Xserve G4s, which share the same type of CPU module), with also the additional benefit of being able to engage in silicon lottery (if you so desire) to push for ever-higher stable clock speeds than any CPU upgrade so far could offer.

And it's nearly-always cheaper than buying the used, inferior upgrades from those companies. And that too assuming you do find them, because regardless of location, they have become insanely rare to come by (Sonnet's 7447 MDX for MDDs and newertechnology's 7448 MAXPower for post-Yikes pre-MDD Macs).

And doing this is a lot simpler than it may initially sound like. It's absolutely doable, and I say that with a dual 7448 @2.0GHz coming my way as we speak:

To do this, you need someone who can solder chips (CPUs etc.) and can provide an interposer board for 744x chips to be used on the stock CPU board, which expects 745x chips, as the two subfamilies have different pinout due to L3 cache. For a 7457 upgrade, the upgrade is even simpler, as no interposer board is required on the stock MDD CPU (you can even upgrade the L3 cache speed to be faster with a faster chip the same way, if you want to go the extra length).

After acquiring that, you can use a firmware patcher like Powerlogix' as with the usual upgrades. If using any of the 3 stock heatsinks, use copper shim(s) for the 7457 to take into account its slightly lower height compared to the stock 7455, or, in the case of the 7448 that has additional height due to the interposer board, use washers/spacers between the posts and heatsink to raise the height at which the heatsink stands.

And voilá, enjoy the Power(PC)!

You can find 7448/7457 chips to hand over to your service provider (assuming you won't service it yourself) with patient searching. A lot of Chinese vendors sell them cheap, usually desoldered from another unrelated machine, in the maximum base configurations (1.267GHz for the 7457, 1.7GHz for the 7448, the highest official binning values Freescale was willing to bin -- they can be even higher in reality). The 7448 is still produced and available brand-new, as well, but not for less than hundreds of dollars (400~600-ish), so I don't quite recommend that route.

We are currently discussing this approach here, in case there are further questions.
 
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Honestly, I highly recommend you to get your own custom upgrade, especially if you care about the original Mac OS.

It will surpass any "main market" 3rd party upgrade like Sonnet's or PowerLogix'/newertechnology's, as it's the only way you can run the best 32-bit PowerPC CPU (7448/7457, be it single or dual) on the best Mac machine capable of running those systems (MDD, and even the Xserve G4s, which share the same type of CPU module), with also the additional benefit of being able to engage in silicon lottery (if you so desire) to push for ever-higher stable clock speeds than any CPU upgrade so far could offer.

And it's nearly-always cheaper than buying the used, inferior upgrades from those companies. And that too assuming you do find them, because regardless of location, they have become insanely rare to come by (Sonnet's 7447 MDX for MDDs and newertechnology's 7448 MAXPower for post-Yikes pre-MDD Macs).

And doing this is a lot simpler than it may initially sound like. It's absolutely doable, and I say that with a dual 7448 @2.0GHz coming my way as we speak:

To do this, you need someone who can solder chips (CPUs etc.) and can provide an interposer board for 744x chips to be used on the stock CPU board, which expects 745x chips, as the two subfamilies have different pinout due to L3 cache. For a 7457 upgrade, the upgrade is even simpler, as no interposer board is required on the stock MDD CPU (you can even upgrade the L3 cache speed to be faster with a faster chip the same way, if you want to go the extra length).

After acquiring that, you can use a firmware patcher like Powerlogix' as with the usual upgrades. If using any of the 3 stock heatsinks, use copper shim(s) for the 7457 to take into account its slightly lower height compared to the stock 7455, or, in the case of the 7448 that has additional height due to the interposer board, use washers/spacers between the posts and heatsink to raise the height at which the heatsink stands.

And voilá, enjoy the Power(PC)!

You can find 7448/7457 chips to hand over to your service provider (assuming you won't service it yourself) with patient searching. A lot of Chinese vendors sell them cheap, usually desoldered from another unrelated machine, in the maximum base configurations (1.267GHz for the 7457, 1.7GHz for the 7448, the highest official binning values Freescale was willing to bin -- they can be even higher in reality). The 7448 is still produced and available brand-new, as well, but not for less than hundreds of dollars (400~600-ish), so I don't quite recommend that route.

We are currently discussing this approach here, in case there are further questions.
This sounds incredible and I have many questions! What is an interposer board and where do I get one? Where do I source 7448/7457 chips and which are better? Where can I find this someone to solder said chips?

Is there any chance you could provide a full writeup for such a process for those of us that never knew that a custom upgrade was even an option?

Thanks!
 
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This sounds incredible and I have many questions! What is an interposer board and where do I get one? Where do I source 7448/7457 chips and which are better? Where can I find this someone to solder said chips?

Is there any chance you could provide a full writeup for such a process for those of us that never knew that a custom upgrade was even an option?

Thanks!
I was exactly in your position a year ago, and learned most of this only months ago, so I completely relate. Most of the info you seek is in that thread I hyperlinked to, but below are some quick answers.

The interposer board is a small piece of PCB that is placed between the CPU module and the CPU itself. The one coming my way for my MDD is a lot like this one:

mdd47.jpg


See that purple thing under the CPU? That's an interposer board, in this case bridging two 7447s onto the MDD CPU daughtercard. Some specific repair shops or people might be able to provide the CPU soldering service, at least.

In my case, this was done by a friend who is very enthusiastic about these beautiful machines, just as I am, and although this is really time-consuming to make and get right, he kindly did it for me (of course, still for a price: none of this is free, be it the materials, time, effort, equipment or expertise). This being a case of a fellow hobbyist doing me a favor, I don't know how willing he is to deal with a bigger number of international customers for this. He does sell, or at least used to sell, on eBay on occasion some other PowerPC Mac upgrades like this one, but until then I'm trying to refrain from getting him stormed with requests.

For 7457 upgrades, especially if you live in Europe, @JoyBed can provide you the service, no interposer board needed. He also has an interposer board in the plans for the 7448, for laptops, but if it's for the MDD, you will have to ask him directly, and see if he is willing to do that for you.

Depending on whoever does the soldering service, they might also provide you the parts themselves (at an extra cost), such as the 7448 and the 7457 processors. If not, there's always eBay, alibaba, aliexpress etc. for finding them. I think some Chinese shops specialize in providing the parts if you buy a batch of many of them, but I haven't tried that path. I found mine for 35 USD a piece months ago, on eBay, but I think depending on the seller, it can go a bit lower than that, or a bit (or a tad) higher.

Regardless of path, though, what's important to understand is that not all the processors are created equal, and that the ones most likely to work with overclocking are the ones binned as "1267" (MHz) for the 7457 and "1700" (MHz) for the 7448. You can see that written on top of the processor die. My friend also said that, in his experience, the newer the processor in terms of when it was manufactured, the better the odds, even more so than the binning. (Not sure how we can tell when it was created, though.)

In short, you will want to keep an eye out for the following:
MC7448HX1700LD
SC7448HX1700LD
Or any other processor ending with "7448HX1700LD", in the case of the 7448.
MC7457RX1267LC
SC7457RX1267LC
Or any other processor ending with "7457RX1267LC", in the case of the 7457.

I emphasize, take your time to find these. Look carefully, look for a while, try all possible search terms, no rushing things. It ought to pop up eventually. OR, see if the soldering service provider can track down the chips for you for a price.
 
The two best/most stable "super fast" upgrades I've had have been the Sonnet dual 1.8ghz and the Newertech 2ghz single 7448.

I have a Gigadesigns that's theoretically a dual 1.8ghz CPU that's made its rounds with a couple of different owners in the PPC forum(ask @eyoungren about it). I really dug into and lapped/mirror polished the heatsink and was able to get it a rock-stable 1.6ghz. I think it's jumpered such that in a DA/QS you can get it to something ludicrous like 2.2 or 2.4ghz, but I'd be shocked it anyone was able to get it even remotely close to there. Maybe the right person could.

TBH, though, I really like the older Sonnet and the like that are in the 800mhz-1.4ghz range. A lot of these are 7455 based and have 1-2mb L3/CPU, something that makes them surprisingly zippy compared to the 7447 and 7448 upgrades. These upgrades also tend to be plug and play(no firmware flashing).
 
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The two best/most stable "super fast" upgrades I've had have been the Sonnet dual 1.8ghz and the Newertech 2ghz single 7448.

I have a Gigadesigns that's theoretically a dual 1.8ghz CPU that's made its rounds with a couple of different owners in the PPC forum(ask @eyoungren about it). I really dug into and lapped/mirror polished the heatsink and was able to get it a rock-stable 1.6ghz. I think it's jumpered such that in a DA/QS you can get it to something ludicrous like 2.2 or 2.4ghz, but I'd be shocked it anyone was able to get it even remotely close to there. Maybe the right person could.

TBH, though, I really like the older Sonnet and the like that are in the 800mhz-1.4ghz range. A lot of these are 7455 based and have 1-2mb L3/CPU, something that makes them surprisingly zippy compared to the 7447 and 7448 upgrades. These upgrades also tend to be plug and play(no firmware flashing).
That Giga won't work in a Quicksilver; unless you modified it? I don't recall. The way the heatsink is designed it won't physically fit into the socket on the QS logicboard. That's one of the reasons I sold it to you.

If the DA uses the same physical layout it's not going to work in there either.
 
That Giga won't work in a Quicksilver; unless you modified it? I don't recall. The way the heatsink is designed it won't physically fit into the socket on the QS logicboard. That's one of the reasons I sold it to you.

It's fine in a QS. I thought it was in yours for a while, and that's the only place I've ever had it.
 
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[...] 2.2 or 2.4ghz, but I'd be shocked it anyone was able to get it even remotely close to there. Maybe the right person could.

TBH, though, I really like the older Sonnet and the like that are in the 800mhz-1.4ghz range. A lot of these are 7455 based and have 1-2mb L3/CPU, something that makes them surprisingly zippy compared to the 7447 and 7448 upgrades. These upgrades also tend to be plug and play(no firmware flashing).
With a liquid cooling system / radiator + a pure silver base, then perhaps some 7448s can reach such speeds and be stable, yeah. Imagine that. :D
At some point, if I'm given time, I will make the move from pure copper air cooling to that form of cooling instead. Hopefully next year.

About the presence of L3 cache and zippiness, I don't know. At least, in my case, when running OS 9 on my 1.42GHz single 7447 mini vs. my stock 1.25GHz dual 7455, in both cases everything feels equally and perfectly zippy to me, no difference that I can tell.
Once the day comes of me also owning a dual 7457 with upgraded / maxed out L3 cache, I will definitely make side-by-side comparisons (also for OS X). That will take me months (to get the dual 7457), and I have yet to try out my dual 7448 @2.0GHz on the MDD, so I will be taking one small step at a time...

Seriously, though, every Mac enthusiast should have access to these upgrades. If we had the reverse-engineered schematics of JUST the MDD/Xserve G4 CPU daughtercard alone, we could go completely wild on this.
 
This is a pretty clear illustration of the difference between the 100 and 133MHz bus layouts:

dual600a.jpg.bdd194e8f2ff91142023da7c3bd43fe9.jpg


It is possible to use a 133 card on a 100 machine with modifications. The MDD is different and is only similar to the G4 xserve.
 
What is binning?
Testing how high a certain cpu can be clocked while being stable and keeping things like temperature, core voltage and power usage within specifications and then deciding on a "guaranteed stable" clock speed the cpu will be officially rated at by the manufacturer.
 
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Testing how high a certain cpu can be clocked while being stable and keeping things like temperature, core voltage and power usage within specifications and then deciding on a "guaranteed stable" clock speed the cpu will be officially rated at by the manufacturer.
Yep. Thing is, to my understanding, they won't ever "correctly" bin CPUs that surpass whatever is the "highest value" they are willing to bin/market/sell, so for example, you could have two 1.7GHz base speed 7448s, but one is actually 1.7GHz and the other one is 2.2GHz, in terms of stable limits, but will be binned identically.

Binning is explained by my earlier hyperlink on "silicon lottery". Below is the direct link:

So "binning" is the labeling/categorization of the processor (and other components too, I guess) to see what specification it meets within a given specification range. So for example:
MC7448HX1700LD
^ Binning that indicates the processor's base clock speed is (at least) 1700 MHz.
 
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