Los Angeles Metro Transit System Plans to Support Apple Pay This Fall

[rosujin]

I was born and raised in LA, but I think I’ve used the Metro about 5 times in my life. Each time I’ve had to buy one of those tap cards and it was very confusing.

On the other hand, I lived in Japan for 3 years and the process was super smooth. Now you can load your SUICA card into your Apple Pay wallet and make it the default payment method. This means that the phone does not have to be unlocked, authenticated, or awake in order to work. You literally tap the phone (in lock mode) and keep walking. It’s awesome!

Unfortunately, it sounds like this LA solution will still require authentication in order to function.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

London has had this for a few years now, on all trains, trams, buses, and even river ferries.

It's very useful - so much quicker and easier to pay with your phone than fumble for a card from your pocket/wallet.

You know what's easier? Grabbing a token out of your pocket and dropping it in a slot.

I have no idea why NYC thought cards were a better idea.

But there's no way paying with your phone is going to be faster than a card. Every time I've used Apple Pay it's been slower than taking a card out of my wallet and swiping it. And actual cash is even faster.

 

[tommysiamese]

I was born and raised in LA, but I think I’ve used the Metro about 5 times in my life. Each time I’ve had to buy one of those tap cards and it was very confusing.

On the other hand, I lived in Japan for 3 years and the process was super smooth. Now you can load your SUICA card into your Apple Pay wallet and make it the default payment method. This means that the phone does not have to be unlocked, authenticated, or awake in order to work. You literally tap the phone (in lock mode) and keep walking. It’s awesome!

Unfortunately, it sounds like this LA solution will still require authentication in order to function.

Yes, Suica with Apple Pay is awesome. It's even better with the latest iPhone series that have Express card with power reserved. So even your phone runs out of battery and turned off, the NFC feature is still working.

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But there's no way paying with your phone is going to be faster than a card. Every time I've used Apple Pay it's been slower than taking a card out of my wallet and swiping it. And actual cash is even faster.

I'm not sure if the US cards support Express Transit yet, but basically, if this is option selected you don't have to authenticate (Face ID, Fingerprint scan) to use it. So, it is very fast. You can see the YouTube video below as the guy compared each option.

For more info on Express Card: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207154

 

[Reason077]

You know what's easier? Grabbing a token out of your pocket and dropping it in a slot.

Oh, please. I lived in Toronto for a few years back when they still used tokens. It was a terrible system.

Bits of metal jangling around in your pocket? Easy to lose. Easy to forget. A total pain when you have to line up to buy more. Subject to fraud (TTC lost millions to counter-fits and had to change the design). Totally inflexible when it comes to discounted fares, off-peak fares, etc. Offers little useful data to the transit company to see what journeys their customers are making and when.

But there's no way paying with your phone is going to be faster than a card. Every time I've used Apple Pay it's been slower than taking a card out of my wallet and swiping it. And actual cash is even faster.

Nope. Sounds like you're doing it wrong.
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Now you can load your SUICA card into your Apple Pay wallet and make it the default payment method. This means that the phone does not have to be unlocked, authenticated, or awake in order to work. You literally tap the phone (in lock mode) and keep walking. It’s awesome!

Unfortunately, it sounds like this LA solution will still require authentication in order to function.

Yeah, that sounds pretty great, and I agree that an authentication-free approach would be even more convenient. But that would also have security implications, and doesn't it mean that the phone's RFID chip needs to be powered on all the time? Doesn't that affect battery life?

In London, it's become second nature to "pre-authenticate" Apple Pay using Face ID just before I approach the ticket gates (turnstiles). Actually very easy, and still much better than using a card.

 

[dontwalkhand]

I don't understand you have been able to use Apple Pay almost everywhere in the UK for 3 years. Shops, transport, tube, everything - it's now a normal part of society. Yet in Apple's homeland, the USA, you still don't have it on your Metro and subway. Are there laws and regulations and other banks blocking Apple Pay?

Please do a little research. We can use Apple Pay on metro and subway in Chicago, Portland, and there’s apps for San Diego etc with Apple Pay in them. And this article states it’s coming to LA, and New York.

 

[tmiw]

But there's no way paying with your phone is going to be faster than a card. Every time I've used Apple Pay it's been slower than taking a card out of my wallet and swiping it. And actual cash is even faster.

Merchants already dislike the card networks. If it truly was more hassle than accepting cash, no one would accept cards at all.

I'm not sure if the US cards support Express Transit yet, but basically, if this is option selected you don't have to authenticate (Face ID, Fingerprint scan) to use it. So, it is very fast. You can see the YouTube video below as the guy compared each option.

Google Pay in other countries, for instance, lets you tap your phone for smaller amounts without unlocking the phone--but does not permit it in the US. I suspect this (and the lack of Express Transit) is because Americans in general will basically only accept mobile payments if authentication is required for every use.

 

[I7guy]

It’s coming. Portions of the Lexington Ave line, as well as all buses on Staten Island, are getting it in May. Citywide rollout will be completed by October 2020 with Metrocards being phased out completely by 2023.

https://www.amny.com/transit/metrocard-replacement-1.19287725

I have to say though that even during rush hour I’ve never had to wait for more than 30 seconds or so to buy tickets at one of the NJ Transit automated kiosks in Penn a station.

Although I’m not a regular commuter these days I have the LIRR and NJ Transit apps on my phone. What a timesaver. And there is no worry about finding a free TVMs.

Now the PATH needs this.

 

[veggiespam]

This issue is these transit systems are governed by three different transit agencies that belong to completely different states. The NYC subway and buses, plus the Long Island Railroad and Metro-North, are governed by the MTA which is controlled by New York State. The PATH trains are governed by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which is governed by a committee appointed by the governors of NY and NJ. NJ Transit is governed by New Jersey. Funding, and therefore revenue taken in from fares, for these different systems are from three different sources. It’s not as simple as just switching over the payment system.

Let’s take your PATH example. Yes, you can use your Metrocard on it but only if it’s loaded with value and not time. Meaning if your Metrocard is loaded with a dollar amount you can use it but if you have an unlimited weekly or monthly Metrocard you can not use that on a PATH train. In that situation you’d literally be taking money away from the MTA and giving to to the Port Authority because whereas if you have $2.75 on your Metrocard and pay for PATH the MTA took $2.75 in and gave $2.75 out but if you have unlimited the MTA would still be giving $2.75 out but very likely got less than $2.75 (per subway/bus ride) out of you if you used your unlimited card more times than the break even point.

I fully comprehend all of that. With the Metrocard, there is some type of sharing already in existence, so it isn't "stealing" since they just pull from the same pool from which both PortAuthority and MTA agreed. The monthly passes are a separate product on the same card (such as 30days + $15). The AirTrain also takes from this same Metrocard pool. What I would like is some type of EZ-Pass system in the area so NYC+LIRR+MetroNorth+PATH+NJT have a single card. That would be ideal. Isn't that how the OysterCard works? Some of those transit systems around London are owned by different entities, yet all use the same card. And, if you used ApplePay as you "transit pass" instead, it would figure out if you're using the monthly plan for system A versus the pay-per-ride for system B.

But maybe it is wishful thinking for all three transit agencies to actually have an adult conversation together and agree upon anything.

 

[bushman4]

Time for New York City to adapt Apple Pay to save time and hassle. 5 million people riding each day surely at least half would benefit

 

[ipponrg]

I fully comprehend all of that. With the Metrocard, there is some type of sharing already in existence, so it isn't "stealing" since they just pull from the same pool from which both PortAuthority and MTA agreed. The monthly passes are a separate product on the same card (such as 30days + $15). The AirTrain also takes from this same Metrocard pool. What I would like is some type of EZ-Pass system in the area so NYC+LIRR+MetroNorth+PATH+NJT have a single card. That would be ideal. Isn't that how the OysterCard works? Some of those transit systems around London are owned by different entities, yet all use the same card. And, if you used ApplePay as you "transit pass" instead, it would figure out if you're using the monthly plan for system A versus the pay-per-ride for system B.

But maybe it is wishful thinking for all three transit agencies to actually have an adult conversation together and agree upon anything.

Yeah that is definitely wishful thinking. Each transit organization you’ve listed is looking after themselves and are separate businesses.

 

[Gasu E.]

Not arguing that using AP isn't easier. I think any service that can make transit an easier process is a good service. Adding AP capability is a good thing.

I just giggle at the descriptor "fumble". Who are these people who have trouble using a card? I imagine a station full of commuters bumping heads, stepping on toes, and generally engaging in 3 Stooges antics. "Clunky" is another one.

Using the cards isn't hard. But if you're unfamiliar with the system, as for a tourist or other visitor, purchasing them can be a bitch. I've been at machines where the labels on the keys were rubbed off, so that it was impossible to use unless you had memorized what each key was supposed to do. Or, in my case, a helpful local told me which key was which.

 

[dontwalkhand]

Using the cards isn't hard. But if you're unfamiliar with the system, as for a tourist or other visitor, purchasing them can be a bitch. I've been at machines where the labels on the keys were rubbed off, so that it was impossible to use unless you had memorized what each key was supposed to do. Or, in my case, a helpful local told me which key was which.

I still don't understand how its hard for a tourist, when most of the machines are the same across the world. The machines LA have looks like the ones in Phoenix, which looks like the ones in Boston, which looks like the ones in London. So If you know how to use them at home, what makes the one in a different city, any different? Sure the options are different, but those options are on the screen, which can't get rubbed off.

 

[Gasu E.]

You know what's easier? Grabbing a token out of your pocket and dropping it in a slot.

I have no idea why NYC thought cards were a better idea.

It's easier to implement variable pricing. Not everyone pays the same price (seniors, students); but in the old days, someone who qualified for a discount had to stand on line at the manned token booth and show a pass. You can't just sell tokens at a discount, because that would lead to a black market.

Price increases are now easier to implement as well. In the old days, people would hoard tokens if they expected an increase, sometimes leading to shortages. Every few years the transit authority would have to reissue tokens with new form factors and retool the readers just to make sure older tokens no longer worked.
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I still don't understand how its hard for a tourist, when most of the machines are the same across the world. The machines LA have looks like the ones in Phoenix, which looks like the ones in Boston, which looks like the ones in London. So If you know how to use them at home, what makes the one in a different city, any different? Sure the options are different, but those options are on the screen, which can't get rubbed off.

Two counterpoints: First, most people visiting from LA or Phoenix don't take public transportation at home, but do so in NYC. Second, as I recall, the machine seemed to be a synthesis of two separate systems-- one for charging my credit card, and one for issuing the pass. The on-screen instructions told me to press a hard metal key at some point, which was supposed to tie the two systems together. And the labels on the metal keypad were rubbed off.

Regarding the other cities-- I live in the Boston area. My local machines are not the same as those in NYC.

 

[69Mustang]

Using the cards isn't hard. But if you're unfamiliar with the system, as for a tourist or other visitor, purchasing them can be a bitch. I've been at machines where the labels on the keys were rubbed off, so that it was impossible to use unless you had memorized what each key was supposed to do. Or, in my case, a helpful local told me which key was which.

I'm just going to recycle my reply to another poster.

Lived in NY for 12 years. My observation has less to do with transit cards and more to do with word choice. Finicky is another favorite of Apple fans. It's not just in relation to transit cards. It's in relation to anything that is compared to something Apple is offering. Everything else is described as finicky, clunky, fumbling, etc. Mind you, these are things and activities we've had and done for years with no issues. Suddenly they become... well, you know.

 

[name99]

This is an easy problem to solve if the city was willing to make the investment. Lots of other countries with suburbs surrounding their cities solved it decades ago. You need a dense, frequent, bus network that services these areas. In many (most?) European suburbs you are no more than a 5-10 minute walk from your nearest bus stop that will take you to the nearest subway/train stop. And the busses are frequent. Every 20 minutes or less. If the subway stop is a hub, the busses are the spokes that radiate out and bring people to it.

There was an excellent article in CityLab about this subject. Definitely worth the read if this kind of stuff interests you at all.

https://www.citylab.com/transportat...d-transit-other-countries-embraced-it/572167/

LA has a dense, frequent, bus network. And it connects nicely with the trains.I was, however, referring to JUST the trains.

Come visit LA and look around --- there's far too much commenting about random cities people have never visited, based on what they've heard and think they are supposed to believe.

(I'm sure at least one small part of why America is so divided is that it's still considered not just acceptable but cool to mock cities like Tulsa or Toledo or even Atlanta and St Louis, without ever having visited them, but you just "know" what they're "supposed" to be like. I mean, damn, I like _The Good Place_ as much as anyone, but there's some world class mocking by Hollywood of Florida and Jacksonville in that show --- and wouldn't you be a little pissed off at the "media-Democrat-elite complex" if all you ever saw, every damn time you turned on a TV, is that sort of portrayal of your state, your city, your people? We're supposed to be upset when that's done towards certain groups --- women, races, gays, ...; but if someone lives in Jacksonville, hell, they deserve for being stupid enough to choose to live there!

OK, rant over.)

 

[dontwalkhand]

It's easier to implement variable pricing. Not everyone pays the same price (seniors, students); but in the old days, someone who qualified for a discount had to stand on line at the manned token booth and show a pass. You can't just sell tokens at a discount, because that would lead to a black market.

Price increases are now easier to implement as well. In the old days, people would hoard tokens if they expected an increase, sometimes leading to shortages. Every few years the transit authority would have to reissue tokens with new form factors and retool the readers just to make sure older tokens no longer worked.
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Two counterpoints: First, most people visiting from LA or Phoenix don't take public transportation at home, but do so in NYC. Second, as I recall, the machine seemed to be a synthesis of two separate systems-- one for charging my credit card, and one for issuing the pass. The on-screen instructions told me to press a hard metal key at some point, which was supposed to tie the two systems together. And the labels on the metal keypad were rubbed off.

Regarding the other cities-- I live in the Boston area. My local machines are not the same as those in NYC.

What I mean is that they are similar, but not exact copies of each other. The Boston ones are Scheidt & Bachmann, so literally exactly the same ones as Phoenix.

Cubic made the SD/SF/LA ones and the much older TFL(UK)/NYC ones. These have the same layout.

But what I am saying is you figure one out, you pretty much figure them all out. These things aren't rocket science.

Though the Washington DC ones are terrible. Same with Sydney Australia (they upgraded the ones in Sydney to Cubic Transportation, but the DC ones are still the ancient ones)

 

[name99]

I don't understand you have been able to use Apple Pay almost everywhere in the UK for 3 years. Shops, transport, tube, everything - it's now a normal part of society. Yet in Apple's homeland, the USA, you still don't have it on your Metro and subway. Are there laws and regulations and other banks blocking Apple Pay?

The US is substantially less centralized than many other large countries. You can argue about whether that's a good or a bad thing, but it's a fact.
It means that many technologies that would be nationwide in other places cary from one state to another, or even one city to another. For example different cities all computerize their maps and transit schedules in different ways. So getting that stuff into Maps is a grinding war of attrition, one system after another. Likewise for transit (and anything transit related -- cards and payment, boxes to get you through tolls, stickers for special situations like HoV lane uses) -- if you're lucky it's done at the state level, but mostly it's at the city level. And all you can do is one damn city after another.

I still don't understand how its hard for a tourist, when most of the machines are the same across the world. The machines LA have looks like the ones in Phoenix, which looks like the ones in Boston, which looks like the ones in London. So If you know how to use them at home, what makes the one in a different city, any different? Sure the options are different, but those options are on the screen, which can't get rubbed off.

First of all, no, MANY people don't "have these machines at home". Maybe they have a car at home. Maybe they live close to work. Maybe they use the bus, not a train. Maybe they live in small towns.

Secondly, it's exceedingly dumb to think that the problem is a mechanical one of "how do I press buttons and insert money". The problem is one of the mental model
- do I have to buy a long term card and then put money on it? Or can I buy a one-time card?

- do I have to something special to get some sort of "all day traveler discount", and if so what?
This second one is a HUGE issue. At home I may well just use the subway for there and back every day. But when traveling, I want to do something very different, involving constantly hopping on and off the train (and perhaps onto buses). And EVERY system claims they have some sort of "daily fare" --- and in pretty much all of them, they tell you FSCK-ALL about how you actually access this thing. Do you need to buy a different card? Do you need to mark your existing card as special use for that day? Will it happen automatically after three trips? WTF knows?

 

[Coffee50]

Isn't "Subway to the sea" already there, in the form of a light rail, the Expo line?

Yeah, it is, lol. For some reason, the Purple line extension has been given (and still uses) that moniker.

But technically, the Expo line already takes riders a couple of blocks from the beach.

 

[mrow]

I fully comprehend all of that. With the Metrocard, there is some type of sharing already in existence, so it isn't "stealing" since they just pull from the same pool from which both PortAuthority and MTA agreed. The monthly passes are a separate product on the same card (such as 30days + $15). The AirTrain also takes from this same Metrocard pool. What I would like is some type of EZ-Pass system in the area so NYC+LIRR+MetroNorth+PATH+NJT have a single card. That would be ideal. Isn't that how the OysterCard works? Some of those transit systems around London are owned by different entities, yet all use the same card. And, if you used ApplePay as you "transit pass" instead, it would figure out if you're using the monthly plan for system A versus the pay-per-ride for system B.

But maybe it is wishful thinking for all three transit agencies to actually have an adult conversation together and agree upon anything.

The Oyster card works on Transport for London systems. They’re all part of the same system.

 

[Doctor Q]

I'm a Los Angeles Metro rider and I welcome this development.

But it brings up an ironic contradiction that I keep noticing. Metro encourages people to use their app for transportation information and schedules, and to report anything suspicious you see while riding. This will be another use for our iPhones. But they also announce regularly that you shouldn't carry mobile phones in plain view for security reasons.

It's a little hard to use Apple Pay on an iPhone that's hidden away.

 

[dontwalkhand]

I'm a Los Angeles Metro rider and I welcome this development.

But it brings up an ironic contradiction that I keep noticing. Metro encourages people to use their app for transportation information and schedules, and to report anything suspicious you see while riding. This will be another use for our iPhones. But they also announce regularly that you shouldn't carry mobile phones in plain view for security reasons.

It's a little hard to use Apple Pay on an iPhone that's hidden away.

I hear those announcements all the time, I guess its ok to pay the fare with it, and then put the thing away right quick, HAHA! And that annoying SUPER LONG announcement about "Call 888 blah bkha blah I don't even remember the number"

 

[bushman4]

In NYC years back people smeared at a Metro Card since we had payed tokens or cash. But everyone got used to it. And when the system excepts Apple Pay as well as Metrocards people will adapt quickly and the tourists will also. Several countries already use Apple Pay for their subways. As well as a few states