Ahhh, damn. You're right. If you look closely, there's also a mole on it in the shape of an Enron symbol.Doctor Q said:
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Lost (TV show)
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Character clues....
I was at a conference today and one of the main speakers, while discussing confucius' philosophy managed to mention John Locke and Russo.
So, I ask him at the end about it and it turns out, John Locke was a philosopher whose ideas reached into the American Civil War, and Russo was a well-used term for Russia in various Russo-XX Vs. XX civil wars in the 19th and 20th centuries....
Interesting...
I was at a conference today and one of the main speakers, while discussing confucius' philosophy managed to mention John Locke and Russo.
So, I ask him at the end about it and it turns out, John Locke was a philosopher whose ideas reached into the American Civil War, and Russo was a well-used term for Russia in various Russo-XX Vs. XX civil wars in the 19th and 20th centuries....
Interesting...
AlBDamned said:
This has been gone over before in this thread... but.
John Locke was a 17th century English Philosopher. His work was on contractarian Philosophy. He built on some of the works of Hobbes.
John-Jack(Jean-Jacques actually)
Rousseau built on Locke's work in the 18th century.Contractarian Philosophy states that civilization is an agreement or contract between the members of society where we trace certain rights in order to receive certain guarantees. The philosophy starts out with people in a "State of Nature" in which there are no rules. Kill and be killed. Rousseau had this as being somewhat idyllic with a decline into barbarism followed by the rise of the agreed to society.
The rights you give up to enter into society vary by philosopher. Hobbes had it as giving up almost all free will to be bound to the will of the rightful sovereign (patrilineal descendant of Adam, the king loved Hobbes like the Medici's loved Machivelli and oddly their writings have a similar feel...) Locke had you giving up the right to kill each other and to steal. Rousseau stated that since personal possessions were derived from your labor and living that those too are forfeit to the common good. Rousseau had a lot of the kernel of socialism in his writings without the rigorous approach of Marx and Engles. It was a dandified dilettante version of communism. All of them believed that if someone violated the social contract that the person could be killed etc. with impunity. Likewise between nation states there was no social contract (aside from treaties) which meant that war was entirely justified.
Many of the differences between America and Europe are reflected in the differences between Locke and Rousseau (the philosophers.)
I guess Prof. Bicherri would be proud of my summary.
I Love the show, but i can't be arsed to wade through all of this thread.
Would like to say thing, aplologies if someone else has mentioned it.
All of the main charecters lives seemed to have improved since they were crash landed on the island.
And, yes, Mr Lock is cool.
Would like to say thing, aplologies if someone else has mentioned it.
All of the main charecters lives seemed to have improved since they were crash landed on the island.
And, yes, Mr Lock is cool.
Lyle said:Boone might beg to differ.
Well he doesn't have to put up with his skank of a sister anymore. The person who he loves the most who was dedicated to making him miserable.
MongoTheGeek said:
Cheers Mong. I figured I may have had the Russo name wrong as I couldn't make the link between the two in the way the speaker at the conference had done. However, after two days at said conference I couldn't be stuffed to spend any more time looking it up last night
Makes much more sense now.
I've recently become addicted to this show. My girlfriend got me into it and I've since bought the 1st season on DVD and watched it marathon style (it was nice to not have to wait for weeks to find out what happened, and also no commercials!). Anyways, I didn't read the whole thread but I've heard some ideas that are pretty interesting. So... here it goes:
1. Magnets pulling the plane out of the sky. Well, we know the plane was at 40k feet, so it would require a ridiculous amount of power to pull off. Plus I think most commercial airliners are mostly made of aluminum alloys (I may be way wrong on that one though, feel free to correct me) thus not really magnetic. This is not to say there aren't magnetic forces at work. I personally like the vortex/bermuda triangle theory with the magnetic nodes/poles spaced across the planet in line w/ the Philedelphia experiment stuff. It's what seems to make the most "sense" (in a pseudoscience kind of way) explaining how the Black Rock, the beechcraft plane and other craft wound up so far away from where they should have been.
2. I have a gut feeling that Leonard (the crazy guy who kept repeating the numbers in the mental hospital), may have been in the hatch at some point. Possible timeline = dude x in bunker, broadcasting the numbers. Leonard and his buddy (forget his name) hear numbers at listening post while in the service. His buddy plays numbers in Australia and bad stuff happens. Leonard hears about this so decides to track down source. Winds up in bunker somehow, and replaces dude x. Has to input the numbers every 108 mins. Desmond meets Jack on bleachers while prepping for his "race around the world." Desmond replaces Leonard in hatch (I don't think Desmond's been there since the 60-70's). Leonard is wacko from his ordeal of many years. Goes to mental hospital. Hurley hears numbers.... the rest is well known. Just a theory.
3. Still not sure about how the securty system plays into all of this. Is Dharma (i.e. Desmond et al.) in control of it/them? or is Desmond a slave to it/ hiding from it in his hatch? thoughts?
4. The others. Maybe decendants from the Black Rock/other crashed vessels? Their obsession w/ children = tring to increase gene pool (ie. fear of imbreeding?). Could the sickness be smallpox or some other old virus that modern man no longer has antibodies to?
5. I have a bad feeling that they're going to kill off Desmond tonight (the same way they did Ethan) to avoid answering a lot of these questions.
1. Magnets pulling the plane out of the sky. Well, we know the plane was at 40k feet, so it would require a ridiculous amount of power to pull off. Plus I think most commercial airliners are mostly made of aluminum alloys (I may be way wrong on that one though, feel free to correct me) thus not really magnetic. This is not to say there aren't magnetic forces at work. I personally like the vortex/bermuda triangle theory with the magnetic nodes/poles spaced across the planet in line w/ the Philedelphia experiment stuff. It's what seems to make the most "sense" (in a pseudoscience kind of way) explaining how the Black Rock, the beechcraft plane and other craft wound up so far away from where they should have been.
2. I have a gut feeling that Leonard (the crazy guy who kept repeating the numbers in the mental hospital), may have been in the hatch at some point. Possible timeline = dude x in bunker, broadcasting the numbers. Leonard and his buddy (forget his name) hear numbers at listening post while in the service. His buddy plays numbers in Australia and bad stuff happens. Leonard hears about this so decides to track down source. Winds up in bunker somehow, and replaces dude x. Has to input the numbers every 108 mins. Desmond meets Jack on bleachers while prepping for his "race around the world." Desmond replaces Leonard in hatch (I don't think Desmond's been there since the 60-70's). Leonard is wacko from his ordeal of many years. Goes to mental hospital. Hurley hears numbers.... the rest is well known. Just a theory.
3. Still not sure about how the securty system plays into all of this. Is Dharma (i.e. Desmond et al.) in control of it/them? or is Desmond a slave to it/ hiding from it in his hatch? thoughts?
4. The others. Maybe decendants from the Black Rock/other crashed vessels? Their obsession w/ children = tring to increase gene pool (ie. fear of imbreeding?). Could the sickness be smallpox or some other old virus that modern man no longer has antibodies to?
5. I have a bad feeling that they're going to kill off Desmond tonight (the same way they did Ethan) to avoid answering a lot of these questions.
I don't think its an obsession with children, just an obsession with Walt. They could have easily taken the Claire's baby when they had a chance but they went out of their way to go after Walt on the boat.GorillaPaws said:
I must point out how funny Jack's fake hair looked for his flashbacks for his time healing his future wife.
That's certainly true for some of them. Kate would have been in jail.combatcolin said:
Speaking of better/worse, we haven't seen the lady whose name I can never remember, who used to sit on the beach keeping to herself and was convinced her husband is still alive. So far, her life hasn't improved much and her situation is ripe for some development.
Don't forget that somewhere early on in Season 1, Locke pointed out that his compass didn't seem to be pointing in the correct direction(s), suggesting that there was some weird magnetic mojo going on.GorillaPaws said:
Yes, I agree that either Leonard or his buddy was one of the previous hatchmasters, and that Desmond took over for one of them. And that Desmond's been waiting for his replacement to show up for some time now.GorillaPaws said:
Yes, Rose. I think it is true that we haven't seen much of her lately because the actress has been busy doing a play or something. I think it's also true that her husband (and some others from the tail section of the plane) survived and that we'll see some of them real soon now. If nothing else, we know that Ana Lucia survived (and she was sitting in seat 42-something).joepunk said:
I just returned from a Psych class in which we touched on the name John Locke for a bit....
He did lost of work concerning perception and perceptual reality. One of his experiments (that we talked about today) had to do with room temperature water.
When you put your hand in room temperature water, it feels like room temperature.
If you then run that same hand under cold tap water, then feel the original room temperature water, it feels warm.
Conversely, if you run your hand under hot tap water, the original water will feel cool.
The room temperature water does not change in any way, however your perception of the water changes noticably.
What I got from the whole thing was that Locke concluded that our experiences were not dictated by our environment. If they were, the water would feel the same each time we put our hand in it. What Locke is proposing is that experiences are dictated by perception, which in itself is a blurry topic.
I have a few ideas as to how this might apply to what's going on with Lost, but I'll spare you in order to keep it open to interperetation.
He did lost of work concerning perception and perceptual reality. One of his experiments (that we talked about today) had to do with room temperature water.
When you put your hand in room temperature water, it feels like room temperature.
If you then run that same hand under cold tap water, then feel the original room temperature water, it feels warm.
Conversely, if you run your hand under hot tap water, the original water will feel cool.
The room temperature water does not change in any way, however your perception of the water changes noticably.
What I got from the whole thing was that Locke concluded that our experiences were not dictated by our environment. If they were, the water would feel the same each time we put our hand in it. What Locke is proposing is that experiences are dictated by perception, which in itself is a blurry topic.
I have a few ideas as to how this might apply to what's going on with Lost, but I'll spare you in order to keep it open to interperetation.
Alright, after this last episode, I can't decide if they really need to push that button or not. Very interesting and twisted if it's just an experiment.
The film was behind a book, was it the Turn of the Screw? Anyone know if that might be a hint (I'm not familar with the story.)
The show is definately brillant
The film was behind a book, was it the Turn of the Screw? Anyone know if that might be a hint (I'm not familar with the story.)
The show is definately brillant
I expected the explanation for what's going on inside the hatch to be a lot more mysterious than it is. Of course, we don't know all of the details yet, by a long shot. But I was a little disappointed with that part.
I had a strong hunch that Jin (the Korean man) could actually speak English (and this was confirmed in the previews for next weeks episode). We didn't actually know that until now, did we?
I think the most surprising thing for me in tonight's episode was when Ana Lucia betrayed them. I did not see that one coming!
I had a strong hunch that Jin (the Korean man) could actually speak English (and this was confirmed in the previews for next weeks episode). We didn't actually know that until now, did we?
I think the most surprising thing for me in tonight's episode was when Ana Lucia betrayed them. I did not see that one coming!
Lyle said:I think the most surprising thing for me in tonight's episode was when Ana Lucia betrayed them. I did not see that one coming!
It sorta makes sense. If that was another group of passengers who had been besieged by the others, it makes a good tactic to interrogate prisoners. She seemed honestly shocked when she heard about the plane crash.
As for pushing the button, I don't know. They mentioned Skinner in the video. Skinner is the father of behavioral conditioning. He is the one who came up with the rat in the cage and the electric shocks. Whether this is a a giant skinner box, perhaps one that has gone on far too long, I don't know.
Also Locke was doing Peggy Bundy.
Jomoma said:
Yeah, the book was Turn of the Screw, by Henry James. I actually adore that book - haven't read it in awhile but the basic plotline is that it is supposedly a true story given to the narrator. It is told from the point of view of a governess taking care of two children basically in the middle of nowhere, with just a few household servants, no parents. Odd things begin happening, and the governess is convinced the children are seeing ghosts and are becoming possessed by them. I don't remember much of the "details," but in the class where I read it, we spent a long time talking about how nothing is every clearly stated - the reader is never certain if it truly is a simple ghost story, or if it's more of a story about psychosis, ie the governess is hallucinating things, but since we only see her point of view, we can never be sure.
A big part of the story is the fact that the characters never truly communicate, and consistently read into others' vague statements, inferring a potentially different meaning. Also, none of the people on the island have been privy to everything that's happened, and they constantly have to rely on others' beliefs/impressions to learn what they can about the world.
I thought the placement was especially appropriate in the show, as it just kind of highlights all the uncertainties that abound - and, like the title, things keep getting worse and worse.
Anyways, nothing much about the episode, except I loved it.
I liked how Hurley stopped having a problem with the code when Locke got the last number wrong.
Ok, the orientation video mentioned a few things of interest. Things like magnetic fields, phsychology, and what caught me off guard was the fact that this was the "swan" station... the station for studying the electromagnetic properties of that particular section of the island. This implies there are more "sections" of the island, and possibly more stations as well.
Think you might all enjoy this little website right here...
http://www.thehansofoundation.org/
This is the website of the "founder" of DHARMA... Alvar Hanso. His organization has some interesting projects...
-Life Extension
-Electromagnetic Research Initiative
-Quest For Extraterrestrial Intelligence
-Mathematical Forecasting Initiative
-Cryogenics Development Imperative
-Juxtapositional Eugenics Institute
-Accelerated Remote Viewing Training Facility
This website is obviously an official direct offshoot of Lost (as seen when you click on the "Terms of Use" link at the bottom of the homepage). These projects are all quite interesting, and I assume at least one of them explains the hatch and the island. However, I think some, such as "Quest For Extraterrestrial Intelligence" were added just to bait viewers subscribing to false theories, example being the alien abduction theory.
The one I'm most interested in, especially after tonight's episode, is the "Accelerated Remote Viewing Training Facility". Jack was so insistant that the execution of the numbers was an experiment in observation... that Desmond was being tested to see how long he would continue this process to show his faith.
Faith is a big theme for this show, especially for Locke. At least once an episode Locke can be found making references to it, or telling members on the island directly to "have faith". Hell- in this episode alone, the concept of a Leap of Faith was presented at least twice. I personally can come up with no ideas as to what might happen if the numbers are not entered, or why they would need to be.
My theory is that entering these numbers is not futile, but has some sort of effect on the world off the island. Initially I thought that Desmond's entering of the numbers might cause the transmittance of the sequence over the radio... using the tower that was causing radio interference last season, and possibly the same transmission that brought Hurley to the Island. Now, i'm not so sure about that one... seems too direct for Lost. But I'm still convinced that Desmond is doing something by entering these numbers, but has been completely misinformed by DHARMA about his actions for a reason.
That's all I have for now, folks... but I'll be back. Have faith.
EDIT: I told you I'd be back. Just reviewed the Hanso site, to find this on Alvar Hanso's section:
This makes me feel almost 100% sure that Dharma or one of the companies in Hanso's "Vast Network" is using the island to observe and test humans.
Think you might all enjoy this little website right here...
http://www.thehansofoundation.org/
This is the website of the "founder" of DHARMA... Alvar Hanso. His organization has some interesting projects...
-Life Extension
-Electromagnetic Research Initiative
-Quest For Extraterrestrial Intelligence
-Mathematical Forecasting Initiative
-Cryogenics Development Imperative
-Juxtapositional Eugenics Institute
-Accelerated Remote Viewing Training Facility
This website is obviously an official direct offshoot of Lost (as seen when you click on the "Terms of Use" link at the bottom of the homepage). These projects are all quite interesting, and I assume at least one of them explains the hatch and the island. However, I think some, such as "Quest For Extraterrestrial Intelligence" were added just to bait viewers subscribing to false theories, example being the alien abduction theory.
The one I'm most interested in, especially after tonight's episode, is the "Accelerated Remote Viewing Training Facility". Jack was so insistant that the execution of the numbers was an experiment in observation... that Desmond was being tested to see how long he would continue this process to show his faith.
Faith is a big theme for this show, especially for Locke. At least once an episode Locke can be found making references to it, or telling members on the island directly to "have faith". Hell- in this episode alone, the concept of a Leap of Faith was presented at least twice. I personally can come up with no ideas as to what might happen if the numbers are not entered, or why they would need to be.
My theory is that entering these numbers is not futile, but has some sort of effect on the world off the island. Initially I thought that Desmond's entering of the numbers might cause the transmittance of the sequence over the radio... using the tower that was causing radio interference last season, and possibly the same transmission that brought Hurley to the Island. Now, i'm not so sure about that one... seems too direct for Lost. But I'm still convinced that Desmond is doing something by entering these numbers, but has been completely misinformed by DHARMA about his actions for a reason.
That's all I have for now, folks... but I'll be back. Have faith.
EDIT: I told you I'd be back. Just reviewed the Hanso site, to find this on Alvar Hanso's section:
Still running his vast network of companies, Hanso has set new standards for philanthropy and the support of pure scientific research for the betterment of the entire race.
This makes me feel almost 100% sure that Dharma or one of the companies in Hanso's "Vast Network" is using the island to observe and test humans.
I loved the look and feel of that old film. What do you bet it was done with Final Cut Pro?
Do you remember Locke right before he got on the plane? In that flashback we saw last season, somebody named Helen didn't come with him as planned. Now we know who Helen is.
Hurley summed up the computer room very succinctly: "Dude". He sure has a way with words! Also: "Did you find it?" "That depends on the meaning of 'It'."
I found this on the Hanso web site:
www.thehansofoundation.org/images/vid_placeholder.gif
Why did you have that hunch? That preview scene was a complete surprise to me. If he could speak English, why didn't he in previous emergencies when it would have helped?Lyle said:
Do you remember Locke right before he got on the plane? In that flashback we saw last season, somebody named Helen didn't come with him as planned. Now we know who Helen is.
Hurley summed up the computer room very succinctly: "Dude". He sure has a way with words! Also: "Did you find it?" "That depends on the meaning of 'It'."
I found this on the Hanso web site:
www.thehansofoundation.org/images/vid_placeholder.gif
There is a flashback scene from the first season when Jin and Sun are at the airport waiting for their flight, and Sun spills a drink on Jin. He goes to the bathroom to clean up and while there is confronted by one of Mr. Paik's henchmen. I don't remember the exact words of their exchange (which was in Korean), but the henchman was essentially trying to warn Jin not to try any funny business, and that he would never be free from Mr. Paik. It strongly suggested to me that Jin was somehow planning for he and Sun to "escape" once they made it to America (and that Mr. Paik had somehow figured this out for himself). I think it was at that point that I got the feeling that Jin might have secretly learned English (to make it easier for he and Sun to find help, etc. when they got to America).Doctor Q said:
Well, now, that I don't know. It's obviously a good question. Could it be some kind of pride thing? I dunno.Doctor Q said:
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