LTE in Apple Watch Series 3 Models Only Works in Country of Purchase

[porotrico]

It's not about the bands, it's about Apple / carriers not allowing to use it in a different country - activate it. So even though you get an European version, where the bands are the same, you are stuck in one country.

I don't agree with your statement regardless you are probably also Czech guy like I am.

I really think that the only limitation are bands, thus Apple has three different models for three different parts of the world. So, if you buy watch in the UK, you can use it with domestic service in France or in Germany, for instance.

Roaming is different story. It won't work because of duplicated phone number. Networks usually don't allow two SIM cards with the same number active at the same time, regardless you might have officially two SIMs (let say the first SIM in phone and the second in modem). You always have to maintain turned on only one of them at all times.

Now you have 2 SIMs with the same number turned on concurrently. That would be a mess in roaming, especially in countries (carriers) which can't handle such situations, therefore roaming is blocked for Apple Watch SIM only.

On top of that Apple Watch has to use VoLTE in 4G network (there is no other option for calls in 4G networks except CS Fallback). VoLTE itself doesn't support roaming. UMTS networks have way worse coverage not only in Czech Republic because of the frequency used, so it can't be used as the primary way for AW calls.

 

[usarioclave]

The NumberSync technology (two SIMS one number, reminds me of the video of the same name) is tied to a carrier., so it's probably the reason you can't roam.

I haven't been able to find anything about how that's actually implemented. I believe the GSM spec sort of prohibited this, but people were able to clone SIM cards to get around the spec. They must have dome some kind of IMEI aliasing internally.

If the watch does roam, how does the network know that it isn't the 'real' device?

 

[porotrico]

The NumberSync technology (two SIMS one number, reminds me of the video of the same name) is tied to a carrier., so it's probably the reason you can't roam.

I haven't been able to find anything about how that's actually implemented. I believe the GSM spec sort of prohibited this, but people were able to clone SIM cards to get around the spec. They must have dome some kind of IMEI aliasing internally.

If the watch does roam, how does the network know that it isn't the 'real' device?

Yes, it was prohibited in the first generations of GSM networks. It was bypassed in networks UMTS and LTE, but it still has limitations. Most of the limitation is to keep the only one SIM active. Or active remain only the first SIM turned on, the other one would connect to mobile network, but remain silent when the number is called.

Apple Watch is different thing. Both SIMs have to be on and work concurrently and partially independently. When the number is called, both SIMs have to ring. So, carrier had to implement something in the network, which assures that. This is one of the reasons why roaming is not available, IMHO.

 

[usarioclave]

Apple Watch is different things. Both SIMs have to be on and work concurrently and partially independently. When the number is called, both SIMs have to ring. So, carrier had to implement something in the network, which assures that. This is one of the reasons why roaming is not available, IMHO.

It's surprising how little detail there is online about how NumberSync etc are implemented. GSM still underlies the roaming system for GSM carriers, since those were in place long before LTE and is baked into everyone's stuff in lots of bizarre and non-obvious ways. It's probably a lot like Ethernet MAC addresses, which are supposed to be unique (and to an extent uniqueness is baked into most implementations) but may not be.

I've always wondered what would happen if you cloned 2000 SIM cards and turned them all on in a GSM cell. Bad things, probably. NumberSync is probably like that for GSM.

 

[fischersd]

The eSIM is going to allow the carriers to write the IMSI. (the unique identifier which includes the MCC/MNC for GSM routing).
The IMEI is the device identifier. IMSI's normally burnt into the SIM.
Several years ago several manufacturers were trying to get the SIM card emulation in place (do it in software - in the mobile OS) - but the carriers pushed back. (they liked their sim locked devices)
Glad to see that we're finally getting rid of these damn cards.

Someone needs to find us the white paper from GSMA on the eSIM. Be interesting to see just how they'll be handing roaming provisioning. (i.e. you won't lose your home network provisioning, but can have another, temporary carrier provisioning on your device as you travel - the same as multi-sim devices, or doing a sim swap).

Pretty damn ridiculous that Rogers in Canada doesn't have this out of the gate (as the country's original GSM carrier).

The problem with doing roaming with the Apple Watch 3 and an iPhone is that the iPhone doesn't currently have an eSIM. if both devices had eSIMs, then you should be able to have them both setup with the same roaming rules (provided the roaming carrier also provides for two devices sharing the same routing on the same plan).

 

[nicho]

The eSIM is going to allow the carriers to write the IMSI. (the unique identifier which includes the MCC/MNC for GSM routing).
The IMEI is the device identifier. IMSI's normally burnt into the SIM.
Several years ago several manufacturers were trying to get the SIM card emulation in place (do it in software - in the mobile OS) - but the carriers pushed back. (they liked their sim locked devices)
Glad to see that we're finally getting rid of these damn cards.

Someone needs to find us the white paper from GSMA on the eSIM. Be interesting to see just how they'll be handing roaming provisioning. (i.e. you won't lose your home network provisioning, but can have another, temporary carrier provisioning on your device as you travel - the same as multi-sim devices, or doing a sim swap).

Pretty damn ridiculous that Rogers in Canada doesn't have this out of the gate (as the country's original GSM carrier).

The problem with doing roaming with the Apple Watch 3 and an iPhone is that the iPhone doesn't currently have an eSIM. if both devices had eSIMs, then you should be able to have them both setup with the same roaming rules (provided the roaming carrier also provides for two devices sharing the same routing on the same plan).

imagine the ******** if apple launched an iPhone that wasn't capable of roaming...

 

[fischersd]

imagine the ******** if apple launched an iPhone that wasn't capable of roaming...

Yep....doing this with the AW3 gives the carriers the chance to walk before they run.

It's going to happen...just be interesting to see how much gnashing of teeth from the carriers along the way.

 

[DRDR]

Appare thr the problem is, that the watch is using Voice over LTE. There is no standard for VoLTE roaming yet. Somebody posted a link to an industry report about that. Please read it!

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ntry-of-purchase.2067891/page-8#post-25042376

Usually carriers get around this by not using VoiP while roaming, which means falling back to 3G when a call is made or incoming (LTE in the status bar does not switch to 3G while doing so). Apple probably did not like this dirty workaround, due to modem and energy limitations.

MultiSim roaming with the same number is no problem at all with existing LTE devices. I do it alot of times with three devices, all sharing one number and one plan. Apple could deactivate the voice part of their watch while roaming, but apparently they don‘t want to or have not decided yet.

So Apple will probably force the carriers to get VoLTE standardized. In the whole LTE world voice was pretty neglected at the beginning. It was all about data. They even had problems getting text messages working, because they did not use the channels normally used for data.

 

[Glassed Silver]

A worryingly number of americans don't realize Apple sells it products to other countries, and people of other countries do tend to travel regularly ! ;-)

What is another country than the USA?

NAME ONE, I DARE YOU.

(;

Glassed Silver:ios

 

[usarioclave]

Another article on VoLTE roaming from the same site:

https://knect365.com/5g-virtualisat...e-roaming-critical-enabler-or-long-term-ideal

Summary: there are interconnect and interoperability issues, but billing issues are really what's causing problems for VoLTE roaming.

 

[Stella]

Should have been clearer: one hour talk time.

Where did you see "1 hour battery life"?
[doublepost=1505568360][/doublepost]

They also said the Watch must use the same carrier as your iPhone.
[doublepost=1505568467][/doublepost]

I think it would be far more meaningful to cite the percentage of Apple customers (or Apple Watch owners) who have traveled abroad. I suspect it will be significantly higher.

 

[fischersd]

The price delta on the Aluminum to add cellular is $70US....so not quite sure why there not being a separate SKU for no-cellular stainless steel watch being a deal breaker - seems a little nuts. You're spending $800...and you're bitching about a $70 feature you may not use?

Doesn't impact your battery life if you don't provision it (i.e. the radio will never turn on).

That's pretty damn crazy that the carriers haven't agreed on a standard for VoLTE roaming yet...they ratify the LTE roaming for data, but not voice?! Maybe this action by Apple will light a fire under their asses.

 

[recoil80]

Wow - I guess my thought is correct. I went to the site for a country that is yet to have a carrier supporting the Apple Watch, and there's no Stainless Steel model available.

For example, the Italian Apple site: https://www.apple.com/it/shop/buy-watch/apple-watch

Yes, no SS model in my country, no edition and no Hermes.
But LTE model, even if you don't have carrier support, is better because you can have more storage and the redesigned back compatible with AirPower.

 

[JTToft]

Wow, that sucks. And just damn strange to think that only a handful of countries with cellular Watch support will actually have a stainless steel model for sale.

- Indeed. And with Series 2 being discontinued and Series 1 never having been available in Stainless Steel, there aren't a whole lot of options.

This Series 3 introduction sucks quite bad in a number of ways.
The upside is that with neither LTE nor Stainless Steel available in my country, my getting a Series 3 is completely out of the question, so it saves me that trouble - not that I was looking to replace my Series 2 Stainless Steel anyway.
[doublepost=1505676566][/doublepost]As has by now been discussed extensively in the thread, there are several different things at play with regard to Apple Watches working outside the country of purchase. The conclusions the article draws simply are not supported by the information it cites.

Quite frankly, I believe this article reflects poorly on MacRumors, and it disappoints me to see it. It should be corrected.

 

[Bilal101]

I was going to upgrade to series 3, but knowing this, I don't see the point.

 

[Tech198]

wow,, country bound then. So a phone IS still required if u wanna call from overseas.

If Apple wanted to, they could allow this from the watch too....,.. Perhaps a technical or just partner reason in other countries.

I bet this would work if the watch was using iPhones LTE connection itself.

But ya ok we want convenience.... so much for that then.

 

[chiefsilverback]

Only 3.5% of the US population has EVER traveled abroad. But we should probably blow this up into a HUGE problem because EVERYONE has to have their watch to talk when they're traveling.

We couldn't talk on our watches before 9/22 but it's IMPOSSIBLE to travel without that ability after that date. Cancel my trip.

Excellent point, presented with grace and aplomb! It's amazing how fast we become 'entitled' to things we didn't even know existed barely minutes before!

 

[omenatarhuri]

Only 3.5% of the US population has EVER traveled abroad. But we should probably blow this up into a HUGE problem because EVERYONE has to have their watch to talk when they're traveling.

We couldn't talk on our watches before 9/22 but it's IMPOSSIBLE to travel without that ability after that date. Cancel my trip.

Is that number correct? 3.5%. Blows mind.

 

[Mac 128]

Only 3.5% of the US population has EVER traveled abroad. But we should probably blow this up into a HUGE problem because EVERYONE has to have their watch to talk when they're traveling.

We couldn't talk on our watches before 9/22 but it's IMPOSSIBLE to travel without that ability after that date. Cancel my trip.

I doubt your figures. But guess what percentage of iPhone customers buy Apple Watches. Yup about 3.5%. Wouldn't it be interesting if they were the same 3.5% you're claiming -- and considering who buys Apple products, I'd wager Apple customers make up a much larger percentage of your claimed share of US global travelers. The best part of your myopic post, is probably the fact that you're completely ignoring all the other countries where the LTE watch will be released, who likely have a much higher percentage of foreign travel than anyone in the US -- particularly in Europe. This affects them too.

 

[axantas]

Wait - if Cellular Series 3 watches are only available in countries with supported networks - does that mean if you're in a country where it's not supported that it's not possible to buy a stainless steel Series 3 watch? That would be quite odd if true.

I'm fascinated how the whole eSIM thing will work. We'll see this eventually on phones as well as more carriers start to support it. I'm going to be connecting my Series 3 next week. So interested to see how that process is handled (it looks like it's done in the Watch app on the phone).

Seems to limit you to Aluminium.
Not getting it myself then.
Not getting an iPhone 8 or X either, as I don't want to live with the new strategy of iTunes 12.7 and the AppStore.

Waiting until they become reasonable again. Saves a lot of money. It is getting boring.

Bad move, Tim...

Already cancelled the update of my MacBook Pro, so getting used to it.

 

[HarryDevlin]

Only 3.5% of the US population has EVER traveled abroad. But we should probably blow this up into a HUGE problem because EVERYONE has to have their watch to talk when they're traveling.

We couldn't talk on our watches before 9/22 but it's IMPOSSIBLE to travel without that ability after that date. Cancel my trip.

That 3.5% number is bogus. It's about 20%. But each year, only about 5% of Americans take one or more foreign trips.

An LTE only device with limited bands, and eSIM is going to be an issue that affects sales.

 

[sagarpachorkar]

With the LTE-enabled Apple Watch Series 3 only available in a handful of countries at the current time, it might be tempting to purchase one in another country, but it won't work. Series 3 models appear to be limited to connectivity in their original country of purchase.

An Apple support representative who spoke to MacRumors reader Thomas said that an Apple Watch purchased in the U.S. online store will only work with the four carriers in the United States, perhaps due to hardware limitations.

Additionally, Apple Watch Series 3 models do not support roaming outside of a provider's network coverage area, according to Apple's fine print, so roaming when traveling to another country is not supported.

Unlike iPhones, Apple Watch Series 3 models also support a limited number of LTE bands, another factor that contributes to no support between countries. In the U.S., Canada, and Puerto Rico, for example, only bands 2, 4, 5, 12, 13, 17, 18, 19, 25, 26, and 41 are supported.

LTE Apple Watch models are currently only available in Australia, Canada, China, France, Germany, Japan, Puerto Rico, Switzerland, the UK, and the United States. Apple says availability will expand to other countries next year.

Article Link: LTE in Apple Watch Series 3 Models Only Works in Country of Purchase

[doublepost=1505763516][/doublepost]The latest iPhones have the most number of LTE bands, it's strange to see weird combination of LTE bands available in the latest Series 3 watches, what could be the reason for unavailability of all major LTE / UMTS bands? Can someone enlighten me why didn't Apple add all the major LTE bands in all models and make it global device? Some technical limitations or another business strategy of releasing all LTE bands in Series 4?

 

[Queen6]

Only 4% of the world population lives in the US.

Well said...

Q-6

 

[starxd]

Only 3.5% of the US population has EVER traveled abroad. But we should probably blow this up into a HUGE problem because EVERYONE has to have their watch to talk when they're traveling.

We couldn't talk on our watches before 9/22 but it's IMPOSSIBLE to travel without that ability after that date. Cancel my trip.

Your figures are WAY off. Last year nearly 67 million Americans travelled to a foreign country. That is nearly 22% of the population... in just one year. A lot more people travel than you think. (That 3.5% figure is using some very suspect math based on highly curated data from 2009 - the height of the Great Recession).

And, of course, the people who are likely to spend $400+ on a smart watch are also far more likely to travel abroad than the general population.

 

[bniu]

Only 3.5% of the US population has EVER traveled abroad. But we should probably blow this up into a HUGE problem because EVERYONE has to have their watch to talk when they're traveling.

We couldn't talk on our watches before 9/22 but it's IMPOSSIBLE to travel without that ability after that date. Cancel my trip.

Yes, but what part of the population is dropping at least $400 on a smart watch? Especially someone able to drop even more on a steel or edition watch, not that hard to afford traveling abroad.