M1/M2 flickering, ghosting with external display [Merged]

[gabxav]

Guys, I solved my problem with this adapter, it worked both connected to the dock and directly to the macbook, the video is always in RGB:

UGREEN USB C to HDMI Cable (4K@60Hz) 6.6FT, Type C to HDMI Adapter Thunderbolt 4/3 to HDMI for Home Office Compatible with iPhone 15 Pro Max Plus, MacBook Pro Air iPad Pro, XPS, Galaxy S23, Steam Deck

Stable Signal Transmission Support 4K Resolution Robust & Durable

www.amazon.com

 

[we99]

Has anyone had this issue with the Dell U2723QE? Currently experiencing it with the S2722QC and liking the USB hub, but going to have to return.

 

[cliffordyen]

Hey guys, disclaimer first, I am not an expert, so I would greatly appreciate it if any professional could explain this or, even further, tell us whether what I inferred is correct.

So I bumped into an interesting forum called LEDStrain, and I found this page:

Disable dithering on M1/M2 devices

Hey guys. I just had a chance to take a look quickly at the M1 GPU driver. At the first glance, dithering can also be controlled by the NVRAM variable. In t...

ledstrain.org

It states that some users experience the ill feeling by just watching the screen because of the temporal dithering. From what I found, temporal dithering is a technique that emulates ("deceives" human brains) higher-bit color depth by "flickering" between colors with lower-bit color depth. And one example is, if you see some monitor claims it can generate 1.07 billion colors (this is the total colors a 10-bit screen panel can generate) while not stating it's a true 10-bit depth panel, then it's very likely it's an 8-bit + FRC (Frame Rate Control, which utilizes Frame Rate Control) panel. BenQ has a webpage explaining this whole thing: https://www.benq.com/en-us/knowledg...it-vs-8-bit-frc-monitor-color-difference.html

All Apple products nowadays claiming they can show 1 billion colors are very likely using temporal dithering because a true 10-bit panel is very expensive and only used for color-related professional monitors. The only Apple product I can find that claims it's "true 10-bit" is, you got it, the most expensive Pro Display XDR. The following is how apple introduces this product on its website: "With true 10-bit color, Pro Display XDR can produce more than a billion colors with extreme accuracy."

Since I am experiencing the flickering issue on my Dell S2722QC, I checked Dell's website, and it says S2722QC can show 1.07 billion colors. By checking the following website again, I can confirm it's 8-bit + FRC.

27" Dell S2722QC - Specifications

Specifications of Dell S2722QC. Display: 27 in, IPS, W-LED, 3840 x 2160 pixels, Viewing angles (H/V): 178 ° / 178 °, Brightness: 350 cd/m², Static contrast: 1000 : 1, Refresh rate: 24 Hz - 76 Hz, sRGB: 99 %, Dimensions: 611.6 x 364.64 x 55.43 mm, Weight: 5.37 kg.

www.displayspecifications.com

Interestingly, I did not experience the same flickering issue on my old Dell U2518D, which is an 8-bit monitor, showing 16.7 million (8-bits per subpixel without dithering). And another user here is using the S2722DC without the flickering issue, and it's also a monitor that shows 16.7 million colors (so it's an 8-bit monitor).

So if there's any expert that bumps into this post and sees my comment, would you please explain whether this is the possible reason why we experience this flickering issue on these "fake" 10-bit monitors?

 

[we99]

Interesting about the 10-bit. I am now successfully using a Samsung S80UA, which does have:

Color Support
Max 1.07B

 

[livgarde]

I just wanted to add that I've tried this little "disable dithering" trick on my M1 MacBook Air with Samsung LC49G95T and seems to have done the trick! A thing I should add this that I had to disable SIP from recovery to have the bootarg command work.

Edit: I was wrong. Please ignore me.

 

[jeyjey]

Hello mates , i am using a macmini with m1 , a monitor VP27684K Viewsonic , with this cable Maxonar USB C DisplayPort1.4 and i have some purple chosting ... the most of times that happened when i opened a private browser window ... i can figure what is the issue ...

I am on Monterey last version ....

 

[ibash]

Hello mates , i am using a macmini with m1 , a monitor VP27684K Viewsonic , with this cable Maxonar USB C DisplayPort1.4 and i have some purple chosting ... the most of times that happened when i opened a private browser window ... i can figure what is the issue ...

I am on Monterey last version ....

Also have a VP2768-4k (also cc @jdrch).

Have tried: connecting directly, changing cables, changing settings, but haven't found a solution. Even shipped the monitor to ViewSonic for repair and it kept happening when the display was returned.

It doesn't help that the ViewSonic firmware update tool crashes on mac... maybe they fixed it in a firmware update, who knows.

Also, would highly recommend everyone here get feedback assistant and report the bug to apple. The more reports the higher chance they'll fix it. https://developer.apple.com/bug-reporting/

 

[pabloteari]

Hello guys.

Purchased a Macbook Pro M1 Pro and have had the same reported issue using a Dell P2219H.

What made it reduce a lot is the suggestion I found on Benq (https://www.benq.com/en-us/knowledg...o-fix-mac-m1-m2-external-monitor-flicker.html) but already mentioned here, changing the profile to Color LCD.

I decided to comment that I noticed something strange.

I tested it on my TVs (Smart TV MU6300 Samsung 4k, LG 32 FHD very old model) and none of them had the problem, is it something related to TECOM?

I was interested in even finding a TV, like The Frame from Samsung, to use as a monitor.

I also suspect that Apple has left the problem to join their other products, or even the community itself find the solution.

I wish us good luck

 

[MaddieM]

I use Macbook Pro M1 and have had the flickering issue and the latency with mouse when I first bought a Dell monitor, thought it was issue with the monitor, got it replaced and nothing changed. Then bought the USB-C cable to display port which solved the latency issue, and the flicking or so I thought.

I assumed it solved it only because it stopped happening for weeks or months until I had to update the OS. It returned a few hours after the update was installed- I restarted, changed the display settings as suggested and a bunch of other things ( which I dont remember and kicking myself for not writing it down) Now that I have updated to Ventura 13.1 and the flickering is back.
I am still working through solving it again and will update once it works with what changes I made.

 

[oz_rkie]

I use Macbook Pro M1 and have had the flickering issue and the latency with mouse when I first bought a Dell monitor, thought it was issue with the monitor, got it replaced and nothing changed. Then bought the USB-C cable to display port which solved the latency issue, and the flicking or so I thought.

I assumed it solved it only because it stopped happening for weeks or months until I had to update the OS. It returned a few hours after the update was installed- I restarted, changed the display settings as suggested and a bunch of other things ( which I dont remember and kicking myself for not writing it down) Now that I have updated to Ventura 13.1 and the flickering is back.
I am still working through solving it again and will update once it works with what changes I made.

This issue is not solvable. Pretty much anything you try has the potential to stall the issue for some time (few hours, few days, few weeks). But if you have the issue, it will always return. If you read through this thread, this issue is clearly an unfixable one at this point with m1/m2 chips not working correctly with a wide range of monitors. If you happen to be using one of these said monitors, then you will need to learn to live with the flickering (there are ways to minimise the issue to an extent but never fully fix), change your monitor or change from m1 to something else. Those are your options.

 

[MaddieM]

This issue is not solvable. Pretty much anything you try has the potential to stall the issue for some time (few hours, few days, few weeks). But if you have the issue, it will always return. If you read through this thread, this issue is clearly an unfixable one at this point with m1/m2 chips not working correctly with a wide range of monitors. If you happen to be using one of these said monitors, then you will need to learn to live with the flickering (there are ways to minimise the issue to an extent but never fully fix), change your monitor or change from m1 to something else. Those are your options.

I agree that it has potential to return, however when I reset the settings it doesnt return until a software update. It has been almost six months since the last time this happened for me. And after changing the display setting and restarting my Mac, even the issue that I reported two hours ago has already resolved.
It would certainly be easier to shell out $$ on one of those monitors that never flickers with M1/M2 but for those who have bought one of those monitors that does flicker and don't want to again spend on buying another one- there is hope with these temporary fixes, until eventually the flicker returns.
Personally for me it only happens with OS update of any kind so it is predictable and manageable as it does resolve.

 

[kToni73]

I agree that it has potential to return, however when I reset the settings it doesnt return until a software update. It has been almost six months since the last time this happened for me. And after changing the display setting and restarting my Mac, even the issue that I reported two hours ago has already resolved.
It would certainly be easier to shell out $$ on one of those monitors that never flickers with M1/M2 but for those who have bought one of those monitors that does flicker and don't want to again spend on buying another one- there is hope with these temporary fixes, until eventually the flicker returns.
Personally for me it only happens with OS update of any kind so it is predictable and manageable as it does resolve.

Word. I got my first two 4K Monitors returned because of this. Had to go with a more expensive one which ended up working fine, but price was almost double 🤷‍♂️

 

[ibash]

Word. I got my first two 4K Monitors returned because of this. Had to go with a more expensive one which ended up working fine, but price was almost double 🤷‍♂️

Which monitor is working for you?

 

[kToni73]

Which monitor is working for you?

LG32UN880 Ultra Fine

 

[ibash]

So viewsonic replaced my display, and I thought the issue was fixed. But it reproduced a day later. Here's what I found:

1. Flickering is more apparent depending on what colors are displayed. Displaying yellow/red/orange/purple makes it very apparent, vs displaying blue/green makes the flickering not visible. I tested this by disabling true tone/night shift, maximizing Figma with a single color displayed.
2. So, flickering is independent of truetone/nightshift, it's only that those tend to tint white windows yellow that it makes it seem like they're the cause.
3. Changing color formats (e.g. yup to rgb) did not resolve the issue. Changing color profiles did not resolve the issue.
4. Power cycling my dock and monitor did not resolve the issue.
5. Changing resolution (tried, 4k, 2560x1440, 1920x1080) did not have an effect; changing refresh rate (24, 25, 30, 50, 60) did not have an effect.
6. Changing brightness did not have an effect.

The only thing that has an effect is what hue is displayed on the screen.

 

[genexx]

2. So, flickering is independent of truetone/nightshift, it's only that those tend to tint white windows yellow that it makes it seem like they're the cause.

I had this Issue ( White went Yellow ) when increasing Contrast 100%, gone with Contrast set to 70%.

Got rid of all Issues when deactivating the DDC/CI ( Display Data Channel/Command Interface ) where with some Monitor Firmware there is also a Color related Display Data Channel/Command Interface feature from a PC with Software you can deactivate.

And fixed Refresh Rate.

I have a Dell S2722DC and it is connected via USB-C to MBA M2.
PD over USB-C and USB Hub working.

 

[ibash]

I had this Issue ( White went Yellow ) when increasing Contrast 100%, gone with Contrast set to 70%.

Got rid of all Issues when deactivating the DDC/CI ( Display Data Channel/Command Interface ) where with some Monitor Firmware there is also a Color related Display Data Channel/Command Interface feature from a PC with Software you can deactivate.

And fixed Refresh Rate.

I have a Dell S2722DC and it is connected via USB-C to MBA M2.
PD over USB-C and USB Hub working.

The white going yellow could be the expected behavior of true tone/night shift.

My point was that even if true tone/night shift is disabled, any yellow/red/orange colors on the screen make the flickering more apparent.

Meaning that true tone/night shift make the bug more apparent but it's not the root cause.

--

I'll try disabling DDC/CI and see if it helps. Beyond changing refresh rate in Mac settings, I didn't see anywhere refresh rate could be adjusted on my monitor.

 

[billkgr]

The white going yellow could be the expected behavior of true tone/night shift.

My point was that even if true tone/night shift is disabled, any yellow/red/orange colors on the screen make the flickering more apparent.

Meaning that true tone/night shift make the bug more apparent but it's not the root cause.

--

I'll try disabling DDC/CI and see if it helps. Beyond changing refresh rate in Mac settings, I didn't see anywhere refresh rate could be adjusted on my monitor.

In my case, the problem seem to reside to the fact that the Macbook will output in the wrong colour space..
Most monitors work OK only the on RGB space, while they'll flicker when they're running on the Ypbpr / YUV mode.

You can go to your screen's OSD Menu and search around for the "Colour Space" or "Colour Format" option.
If it's anything other than RGB, then I think you'd greatly benefit from trying to force your display on RGB mode.
To do so, you'd need to use the following fish script: https://github.com/dangh/force-rgb.fish

 

[ibash]

So disabling DDC/CI didn't fix it on my machine, it just reproduced.

Have some further notes:

1. It's 4:40pm, which is late enough in the day that truetone is putting on it's yellow tint.
2. Truetone is enabled and is yellow tinting. Disabling trutone removes the yellow tint and the flicker.
3. Flickering is highly dependent on the location of windows, and somewhat on the content displayed (hard to tell).

See my screenshot and video.
Flickering only reproduces when the fusion360 window is on the bottom right side. And _only_ reproduces when the browser window (orion) is larger than 50% of the screen, and is close to the fusion360 window.

Interestingly on macrumors itself whenever a modal is shown (e.g. dragging the image around this post, or in the upload dialog) the flickering intensifies.

This layout reproduces flickering. And in the video you can see that if I move the windows around flickering gets enabled / disabled.

 

[ibash]

I can do some more testing tomorrow, hopefully this state reproduces the issue reliably and it'll allow experimentation.

 

[ibash]

Good news, I was able to reproduce the issue and test a bunch of the supposed solutions.
Bad news, none of them work.

Here's what I methodically tested, and none of these resolve the issue:

1. Restarting the computer
2. Power cycle the dock (via power cable)
3. Power cycle the monitor (via on/off button)
4. Power cycle the monitor (via power cable)
5. Unpiug and replug in the TB3 cable from dock to computer
6. Unplug and replug the displayport cable from dock to monitor, at the monitor end
7. Unblock and replug the displayport cable from dock to monitor, at the dock end
8. Change to default resolution (from 2560x1440 to 1920x1080)
9. Changing the color profile (tried them all)
10. Changing the refresh rate (tried them all)
11. Changing the color format setting on the monitor: tried "rgb full", "rgb limited", "yuv full", "yuv limited"
12. Change the built in display brightness (because why not)
13. Cover the light sensor on the built in display (because why not)
14. Close fusion 360 (still occurs with application closed)
15. Disconnect doc and connect monitor directly to laptop via usb-c cable
16. Connect monitor via HDMI cable and apple hdml to usb-c adapter
17. Delete the windowserver plist files and restart

All of these don't resolve the issue. Going to update to latest ventura now (I'm on 13.1), but I doubt that will fix it.
Edit: Ventura 13.2 does not fix the issue.

 

[oz_rkie]

Good news, I was able to reproduce the issue and test a bunch of the supposed solutions.
Bad news, none of them work.

Here's what I methodically tested, and none of these resolve the issue:

1. Restarting the computer
2. Power cycle the dock (via power cable)
3. Power cycle the monitor (via on/off button)
4. Power cycle the monitor (via power cable)
5. Unpiug and replug in the TB3 cable from dock to computer
6. Unplug and replug the displayport cable from dock to monitor, at the monitor end
7. Unblock and replug the displayport cable from dock to monitor, at the dock end
8. Change to default resolution (from 2560x1440 to 1920x1080)
9. Changing the color profile (tried them all)
10. Changing the refresh rate (tried them all)
11. Changing the color format setting on the monitor: tried "rgb full", "rgb limited", "yuv full", "yuv limited"
12. Change the built in display brightness (because why not)
13. Cover the light sensor on the built in display (because why not)
14. Close fusion 360 (still occurs with application closed)
15. Disconnect doc and connect monitor directly to laptop via usb-c cable
16. Connect monitor via HDMI cable and apple hdml to usb-c adapter
17. Delete the windowserver plist files and restart

All of these don't resolve the issue. Going to update to latest ventura now (I'm on 13.1), but I doubt that will fix it.
Edit: Ventura 13.2 does not fix the issue.

The premium apple experience!

 

[MasterRPG]

Hi,
I can give some hints - maybe it can help someone.
I have a MacMini M1, the monitor is LG 4k VA. And I have the flickering issue, both with HDMI and USBC cable.

But, if I turn on the HDR option, the flickering is not appearing.
The same if I use a lower resolution (1080).

 

[ibash]

Hi,
I can give some hints - maybe it can help someone.
I have a MacMini M1, the monitor is LG 4k VA. And I have the flickering issue, both with HDMI and USBC cable.

But, if I turn on the HDR option, the flickering is not appearing.
The same if I use a lower resolution (1080) or if I disable the dark theme.

I did not know my monitor supports HDR, but apparently I had it off the whole time. I'll leave it off until the next time the issue reproduces, then will turn it on to test this.

Edit: Enabling HDR does not solve the issue.

 

[MasterRPG]

I did not know my monitor supports HDR, but apparently I had it off the whole time. I'll leave it off until the next time the issue reproduces, then will turn it on to test this.

Other info are: pay attention - MacOsX turns of often the HDR flag after the monitor wakes up from sleep mode