M1 Mac performance (Tahoe)

[agregson]

Forced obsolescence... 😁

Adding a bunch of junk that nobody really needs that soaks up CPU and memory that slows up older machines making users upgrade. MS have been at it for years then just gave up the pretence and arbitrarily forced a cutoff for W11. Apple made the M1 so good that they had to come up with some strategy to force users to upgrade. When they had Intel they could depend on the Intel chip to do the job for them. M1 was so good they broke their strategy. So now adding all sorts of AI, LG and others to slow up the older kit.

 

[SDAVE]

We forget that glass effects (especially complicated ones like real blurs, reflections, refractions, chromatic abberations) will add bloat/usage to the GPU. Not surprised that a 5 year old M1 is slow. It also falls in line with the "planned obsoleteness" that Apple secretly commits to, forcing people to upgrade because their computer feels slow.

 

[agregson]

We forget that glass effects (especially complicated ones like real blurs, reflections, refractions, chromatic abberations) will add bloat/usage to the GPU. Not surprised that a 5 year old M1 is slow. It also falls in line with the "planned obsoleteness" that Apple secretly commits to, forcing people to upgrade because their computer feels slow.

If they were committed to reducing e-waste they would offer an option to disable some of the features. The fact that many users want a switch to disable liquid glass, AI and other bloat features is a further benefit. They are maintaining the 15 UI and will likely do for sometime they could simply switch between them or have switches in 26 to disable the features and reduce load. Same goes for AI and other options. Maybe AI should even be in an app like copilot, Gemini and so on then users can choose. The Linux devs can allow multiple choices and switch with relative ease so it cannot be beyond Apple and their expanse of engineers.
The M1 was a major improvement over the Intel before it. Since M1 Apple have struggled to inspire upgrades - any amount of incremental CPU, GPU and memory bandwidth stats will never compete with “3x Intel” of M1 so they have an upgrade pipeline problem. The 3-4 year cycle of Intel could easily move to 7+ on M1 and that is a problem. So they need to find ways to “force obsolescence” without being so brutally obvious as Microsoft who define an arbitrary cut-off where relatively week N100 mini PCs pass accreditation but gen 6 or 7 i3,5,7 with far more performant CPU and GPU are not. Even the evolution of ARM ISA brings some benefits in areas such as context switch, return path verification for security and others but are marginal for most users. So hide behind LG, AI and other aspects that can arbitrarily obsolete older M1 machines.
What really depresses me is the M series machines will really be destined for landfill or recycle and scandalous waste. No repurpose or reuse for the average user, no ChromeOS Flex, no Linux and no BackMarket refurb and resale. Just more senseless waste. It sort of negates all of the effort and greenwash waffle around recycled materials, reduced plastic and so on.

 

[loby]

If they were committed to reducing e-waste they would offer an option to disable some of the features. The fact that many users want a switch to disable liquid glass, AI and other bloat features is a further benefit. They are maintaining the 15 UI and will likely do for sometime they could simply switch between them or have switches in 26 to disable the features and reduce load. Same goes for AI and other options. Maybe AI should even be in an app like copilot, Gemini and so on then users can choose. The Linux devs can allow multiple choices and switch with relative ease so it cannot be beyond Apple and their expanse of engineers.
The M1 was a major improvement over the Intel before it. Since M1 Apple have struggled to inspire upgrades - any amount of incremental CPU, GPU and memory bandwidth stats will never compete with “3x Intel” of M1 so they have an upgrade pipeline problem. The 3-4 year cycle of Intel could easily move to 7+ on M1 and that is a problem. So they need to find ways to “force obsolescence” without being so brutally obvious as Microsoft who define an arbitrary cut-off where relatively week N100 mini PCs pass accreditation but gen 6 or 7 i3,5,7 with far more performant CPU and GPU are not. Even the evolution of ARM ISA brings some benefits in areas such as context switch, return path verification for security and others but are marginal for most users. So hide behind LG, AI and other aspects that can arbitrarily obsolete older M1 machines.
What really depresses me is the M series machines will really be destined for landfill or recycle and scandalous waste. No repurpose or reuse for the average user, no ChromeOS Flex, no Linux and no BackMarket refurb and resale. Just more senseless waste. It sort of negates all of the effort and greenwash waffle around recycled materials, reduced plastic and so on.

It is a hard case when you are a billion dollar+ company and have to have the machine continue.

Many paychecks, stockholder demands, costs etc. Apple is a business and they are in business to make money, not to save the world. Good marketing gimmick(s)...but "Yes"..Apple still has "some" concerns for the environment and the planet as their founders and some who are still left...come from a generation that when they were young and daddy took care of them, had the time and were able to think about more than survival and more about life and what it was all about.

But at the end of the day, the reality is a business desires to max out profits for various reasons and Apple is not an exception. They have too now...they are too big and their responsibilities to generate income exceeds any various philosophies or philanthropy ideologies.

The M1 (in my option being in tech for many years) was the best "computer" that was ever created at the time. Apple arrived to a place where you cannot get any better. It was an achievement that many (including myself) longed for. Until the next big jump in technology occurs, the M-Series can only improve with incremental upgrades in CPU and GPU performance. Apple does not make their money on Macs, but the iPhone, but Apple is now working hard to now capture the computer market that Microsoft has dominated since the beginning, so they have to do something for customers to continue to buy.

My M1 MacBook Pro 2021 is a Mac that I could just camp on for about 10 years and be happy with it If I was able to do so. I hope Apple makes macOS Sequoia a good OS for older systems to camp on for the remainder of its life.

It does everything I want and more. But a business cannot continue with that type of purchasing behavior, so they have to do something to get buyers to buy. They should not "cripple" Macs as I have suspected for some years....but...just make us "want" to buy and continue to "WOW" us with something if they STILL have a soul. I would continue to buy if the power continues to evolve regardless if I "need it". That is my reason I purchase and not for gimmicks or "bells and whistles" or emojis etc.

I want to produce something instead of play with toys. Leave the toys for the iPad.

 

[SDAVE]

If they were committed to reducing e-waste they would offer an option to disable some of the features. The fact that many users want a switch to disable liquid glass, AI and other bloat features is a further benefit. They are maintaining the 15 UI and will likely do for sometime they could simply switch between them or have switches in 26 to disable the features and reduce load. Same goes for AI and other options. Maybe AI should even be in an app like copilot, Gemini and so on then users can choose. The Linux devs can allow multiple choices and switch with relative ease so it cannot be beyond Apple and their expanse of engineers.
The M1 was a major improvement over the Intel before it. Since M1 Apple have struggled to inspire upgrades - any amount of incremental CPU, GPU and memory bandwidth stats will never compete with “3x Intel” of M1 so they have an upgrade pipeline problem. The 3-4 year cycle of Intel could easily move to 7+ on M1 and that is a problem. So they need to find ways to “force obsolescence” without being so brutally obvious as Microsoft who define an arbitrary cut-off where relatively week N100 mini PCs pass accreditation but gen 6 or 7 i3,5,7 with far more performant CPU and GPU are not. Even the evolution of ARM ISA brings some benefits in areas such as context switch, return path verification for security and others but are marginal for most users. So hide behind LG, AI and other aspects that can arbitrarily obsolete older M1 machines.
What really depresses me is the M series machines will really be destined for landfill or recycle and scandalous waste. No repurpose or reuse for the average user, no ChromeOS Flex, no Linux and no BackMarket refurb and resale. Just more senseless waste. It sort of negates all of the effort and greenwash waffle around recycled materials, reduced plastic and so on.

You can disable transparency in accessability, matter of fact that's what I did on my "high end" 2019 Mac Pro and it helped a lot.

 

[agregson]

It is a hard case when you are a billion dollar+ company and have to have the machine continue.

Many paychecks, stockholder demands, costs etc. Apple is a business and they are in business to make money, not to save the world. Good marketing gimmick(s)...but "Yes"..Apple still has "some" concerns for the environment and the planet as their founders and some who are still left...come from a generation that when they were young and daddy took care of them, had the time and were able to think about more than survival and more about life and what it was all about.

But at the end of the day, the reality is a business desires to max out profits for various reasons and Apple is not an exception. They have too now...they are too big and their responsibilities to generate income exceeds any various philosophies or philanthropy ideologies.

The M1 (in my option being in tech for many years) was the best "computer" that was ever created at the time. Apple arrived to a place where you cannot get any better. It was an achievement that many (including myself) longed for. Until the next big jump in technology occurs, the M-Series can only improve with incremental upgrades in CPU and GPU performance. Apple does not make their money on Macs, but the iPhone, but Apple is now working hard to now capture the computer market that Microsoft has dominated since the beginning, so they have to do something for customers to continue to buy.

My M1 MacBook Pro 2021 is a Mac that I could just camp on for about 10 years and be happy with it If I was able to do so. I hope Apple makes macOS Sequoia a good OS for older systems to camp on for the remainder of its life.

It does everything I want and more. But a business cannot continue with that type of purchasing behavior, so they have to do something to get buyers to buy. They should not "cripple" Macs as I have suspected for some years....but...just make us "want" to buy and continue to "WOW" us with something if they STILL have a soul. I would continue to buy if the power continues to evolve regardless if I "need it". That is my reason I purchase and not for gimmicks or "bells and whistles" or emojis etc.

I want to produce something instead of play with toys. Leave the toys for the iPad.

I appreciate Apple (and others) are more concerned with obsoleting devices and maintaining a sales pipeline than ensuring the longevity. They should look to innovate and add compelling reasons to upgrade - such as the M series or new product lines. It seems a lot of innovation has gone and the focus is more in annual updates, hyped launches and endless pushing via sponsored media to try to convince users they need to upgrade. Recent updates in iPhone, iPad and Macs have been little other than incremental. Why not look to do something new? I didn't upgrade from iPhone 15 Pro Max as I saw little to justify. Same with iPad Pro M2 12.9. Upgraded to mini m4 as they did do something different and delivered what I think is easily the best mini PC available and in base spec at £519 (on offer) is staggeringly good value (assuming avoidance of profit driven spec bumps). I connect to two ASD which despite their price offer easily the best feature/price balance available as they are true high-def 5k with excellent connectivity, super display, great speakers and construction that is unrivalled).

Rather than obsoleting older technology why not open new markets? The rumours around the low-cost MacBook could be a compelling way to drive a lot more users into the Apple ecosystem and services business. Use the older chips such as M1 and A series to deliver truly low cost devices. Recent delivery of the iPad 2025 and Watch SE3 are good examples. Sure the production of M1 generation is now a much more economic process. Use these and already developed older designs, screens and so on to deliver low cost while maintaining margin. Apple often sell the M2 mini in UK at £319 in refurb store. The M2 MBA 16GB is widely available new in UK now for £699. Keep the products in production and at those prices permanently and even continue the M1 for less - even if it evolves into a renamed MacBook 12 or watever - they still have moulds and designs for the MB12 and if Intel fitted in 10+ years ago I am sure M1 would today. Deliver that at £499 then cover the range. At those prices who would buy a random Windows Mini PC?

It is clear Apple see the future in services revenue. If they sell a lot more low cost devices many users will take on services. News is a super value service. Music is decent. TV is very good. iCloud is hard to beat. Even Arcade is decent especially when bundled. Add iCloud Time Machine to make it a non-decision for users and drive in many more users.

All of this means a lean OS and a focus on lean development and avoidance of bloat. macOS 15 looks and feels superb. Clean, relatively clutter free, efficient and super reliable. It works well even on my M1 8GB mini. If features must be added make them optional and very easy to disable - and properly listen to beta feedback.

Like you, I use my computers to get things done rather than playing around. I write a lot of code and even on M1 8GB it is fine. I don't use Xcode and work mainly in VIM with terminal so my case is maybe a little unusual. It is a super productive environment for me, seamless migration between my desktops (M1 mini, M1 MBA, M2 mini and M4 mini all on 15.7) and even mobile (iPad Pro 12.9 M2 and iPhone Pro 15 Max). I also use CodeRunner when I want want to experiment or have fun with code - super for C, Python, web development and integrated debug is nice. Scanning and image editing, email, Pages/Numbers etc. are all superb. macOS 15.7 is superb for all of these and it feels responsive and very usable even when the 8GB machine is under a bit of pressure - it never shows. The OS remains clean, well-focused, sharp (the whole point of retina and anti-LG smearing).

I have a few other Apple devices - several Apple TV 4K (latest versions), 4 HomePod mini, AirPod pro, Apple Watch. I love Apple kit, software and systems and have done for more than 20 years after a move to PC and NeXT from original Mac for 10-15 years. I have a lot invested in it and I always expected Apple to last at least twice as long as equivalent Windows and alternatives. As they arbitrarily slow down and obsolete devices my investment increasingly looks less stable and the TCO could rise rapidly. I want Apple to remain focused on what they have always done well - user experience and value for money (cost of purchase spread over longer interval and even resale or pass on value after 5+ years). Who will want a 5+ year old M series device? Can't try a new OS and revert if the experience is poor. Can't install and alternative - and can't even try due to the various locks and restrictions. Do I want to write off the long list of kit every 5 years without even the option to sell or pass on to family? I am not so sure.

I think there is a lot more that can be done to delivery profit and return rather than adopting the lazy approach of sweating their user base every few years for a new device and assuming they will either remain loyal or the numerous lock-ins via services and purchases keeps them locked in.

 

[agregson]

You can disable transparency in accessability, matter of fact that's what I did on my "high end" 2019 Mac Pro and it helped a lot.

I'm afraid to try it. I intend to stay on 15/18 as long as I can and avoid a new device until I see some more tangible change or option. I simply do not understand why a simple "disable LG" switch cannot be added. The UI continues to be developed for 15 so just have a switch to have that or the new. Same for AI. AI provided the Apple way seems destined to require memory and/or storage. At present it is largely useless so can be switched off (after every update). Even if/when it is decent why not have it in an App as Copilot is now. Copilot can do lots of AI things and looking at memory use it is relatively painless.
I don't want Apple to allow everything to be configurable as until now their design decisions have been largely good. Just as some users like light and some dark (and some auto) they have a switch for that. Just make other things optional and allow the OS to be streamlined a little for user preference or resources.

When you used accessibility how disabled was LG? A friend had it turned on with his iPhone 12 Pro and it made it sluggish and knackered battery life so he disabled it and restored performance and battery life.

 

[SDAVE]

I'm afraid to try it. I intend to stay on 15/18 as long as I can and avoid a new device until I see some more tangible change or option. I simply do not understand why a simple "disable LG" switch cannot be added. The UI continues to be developed for 15 so just have a switch to have that or the new. Same for AI. AI provided the Apple way seems destined to require memory and/or storage. At present it is largely useless so can be switched off (after every update). Even if/when it is decent why not have it in an App as Copilot is now. Copilot can do lots of AI things and looking at memory use it is relatively painless.
I don't want Apple to allow everything to be configurable as until now their design decisions have been largely good. Just as some users like light and some dark (and some auto) they have a switch for that. Just make other things optional and allow the OS to be streamlined a little for user preference or resources.

When you used accessibility how disabled was LG? A friend had it turned on with his iPhone 12 Pro and it made it sluggish and knackered battery life so he disabled it and restored performance and battery life.

Unfortunately these complains about LG are in the minority and Apple wants you to upgrade to the latest and greatest. To be fair it makes sense that a 5-6 year old phone (iPhone 12) runs slow on latest software.

"Reduce transparency" helped my Intel MP (mind you its a very high end system for its day, with a good GPU) run better for sure.

I'm fairly confident Apple will make performance better over time for Tahoe, especially since its the last version for Intel users

 

[agregson]

Unfortunately these complains about LG are in the minority and Apple wants you to upgrade to the latest and greatest. To be fair it makes sense that a 5-6 year old phone (iPhone 12) runs slow on latest software.

"Reduce transparency" helped my Intel MP (mind you its a very high end system for its day, with a good GPU) run better for sure.

I'm fairly confident Apple will make performance better over time for Tahoe, especially since its the last version for Intel users

26 is the first time I have not jumped on new OS on release. The performance issues and LG were the key reasons. I have seen LG and had it side by side with 15/18 and 26. I seriously dislike it. It seems to be against the whole push in recent years towards the amazing retina (high DPI done right), minimal and clutter free appearance towards something that seems more like what I would expect on other platforms - or Apple of years ago.

I also wonder how 15 can be so performant and optimised and a new version suddenly loses all of this optimisation and development. I know new libraries, changes and others will make need work but this just does not seem to make sense to me. It also concerns me that a new version of OS needs endless fixes and issues resolving despite a long beta process.

Part of this is down to my own perception.I guess the M series has spoiled me. The M1 was SO good compared to Intel I just started to assume the old 3 year refresh cycle to remain performant had somehow been rewritten. Given the value I get from Apple devices a 3 year refresh on computers, 2 year on phone and 3-5 years on iPad is not unreasonable especially to stay on leading edge of things.

I do really appreciate the benefits of Apple hardware, software and systems. I suppose I have got used to it all being so good that the little things really annoy me as I don't have the larger issues on Windows and others to worry about. I guess my car (2 year EV refresh cycle) also similarly spoils me - suddenly minor issues, squeaks and rattles are what I focus on as the rest of it just works so well.

 

[GIZBUG]

Reduce Transparency has helped my 2023 Mac mini Apple M2 run slightly better.
Still not as smooth and fluent as previous Sequoia MacOS (Currently running Tahoe 26.2)

So its not just M1s suffering