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M1 Max Chip May Have More Raw GPU Performance Than a PlayStation 5

diamond.g said:
One could argue the opposite if the popularity of free to play loot box games on ios are any indication of things.
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Those users do tend to pay though, seeing the ridiculous amount of money Apple makes from those games.

That being said, I think what you're getting at is with a culture of low up front costs for games on the App Stores, would it be hard for any traditional/real game to charge the kind of up front cost it does on consoles/PC...

I don't think it has really been tried, but what would have to be solved first is the severely entrenched culture of the App Store version being the worst version of said game. It's always the version with the worst UI, receives updates late or not at all, and may not support controller, is looked after by a secondary developer etc. With price parity there needs to be quality parity. I hope to see this but I'm not holding my breath.
 
diamond.g said:
One could argue the opposite if the popularity of free to play loot box games on ios are any indication of things.
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That would be committing a logical fallacy. There are plenty of studies that show that the total dollar amount spent by apple users on software vastly exceeds that spent by users of most other platforms in absolute terms.
 
cmaier said:
That would be committing a logical fallacy. There are plenty of studies that show that the total dollar amount spent by apple users on software vastly exceeds that spent by users of most other platforms in absolute terms.
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All games are software, not all software are games. Are we sure the average Apple user spends more on games than the average Playstation user?
 
diamond.g said:
All games are software, not all software are games. Are we sure the average Apple user spends more on games than the average Playstation user?
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Probably not meaningful to compare. I would think iOS users playing games vastly outnumber Playstation users.
 
cmaier said:
A few million? There’s more than a “few million” M1-based devices out there, between the M1 MacBooks, M1 ipads, and now the M1 Pro and M1 Max macbooks. Not to mention that people in the Apple ecosystem pay for software unlike some of these other ecosystems.
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Specifically referring to M1 based Macs compared against the years and years and years and millions and millions of non-M1 based Macs, it’s a “few million”.
 
diamond.g said:
All games are software, not all software are games. Are we sure the average Apple user spends more on games than the average Playstation user?
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The Apple App Store makes more on games than any other platform...in fact it makes more than the Sony Playstation store and MS stores combined. This was in the recent court filing in Epic v Apple and hence why Epic wants a piece of that pie.
 
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Unregistered 4U said:
Specifically referring to M1 based Macs compared against the years and years and years and millions and millions of non-M1 based Macs, it’s a “few million”.
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They’ve sold more than 6 million a quarter, Macs alone, since those first M1 macs. More than 7 million in recent quarters, and we don’t know how many M1 Max/M1 Pro and iPad Pro they’ve sold. 10s of millions is not ”a few million.”
 
theotherphil said:
The Apple App Store makes more on games than any other platform...in fact it makes more than the Sony Playstation store and MS stores combined. This was in the recent court filing in Epic v Apple and hence why Epic wants a piece of that pie.
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cmaier said:
They’ve sold more than 6 million a quarter, Macs alone, since those first M1 macs. More than 7 million in recent quarters, and we don’t know how many M1 Max/M1 Pro and iPad Pro they’ve sold. 10s of millions is not ”a few million.”
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So if there are tons of Macs and all the money is gaming is on the Apple App Store why can I not buy/play New World or Star Citizen on any Apple hardware? Why is Amazon and Chris Roberts leaving all of this money on the table?
 
cmaier said:
They’ve sold more than 6 million a quarter, Macs alone, since those first M1 macs.
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WOW, in 2018, there were only 100 million Macs. After looking at iOS/iPad numbers for so long, I really forgot how tiny the number of Macs are in comparison! :) Seeing as how there would be at most, 130 million macs out there prior to the advent of the M1 Macs around 30 million more would be a significant number of the installed user base and NOT just a few :)
 
diamond.g said:
Should ask about a Linux version too!
I mean for 400 million there has the be something for show right?!
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I should think the answer re: Linux is obvious - if you don’t want to pay for an OS, you probably aren’t going to pay for much else. I mean, why else would anyone use GIMP?
 
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diamond.g said:
So if there are tons of Macs and all the money is gaming is on the Apple App Store why can I not buy/play New World or Star Citizen on any Apple hardware? Why is Amazon and Chris Roberts leaving all of this money on the table?
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There may be more total money flowing through Apple's App store, but there's even more competition. There may not be that much money left on the table after the cut-throat competition for the user's dollar from game developers already winning in that space.
 
cmaier said:
I should think the answer re: Linux is obvious - if you don’t want to pay for an OS, you probably aren’t going to pay for much else. I mean, why else would anyone use GIMP?
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There are more reasons to use Linux than the cost of the OS and plenty of expensive software available for x86 Linux that is very likely never to be ported to MacOS. Thinking of systems like Ansys, not in the context of games specifically. If one only ever rarely edits a photo, why pay for Photoshop, anyway?
 
The ps5 is tbh a big disappointment to me , the whole design feels poorly thought out . It’s massive and not in a good way . In the old days we had super compact gaming monsters like the pc engine and the n64 , Saturn , Dreamcast etc .

This thing is enormous and impossible to fit into a normal av cabinet so it stands alone , stuck there like a big white lump . I find the design extremely irritating.

The games are no great shakes either and the pads are total and utter garbage , on my 3rd set after a year !
 
jjcs said:
There are more reasons to use Linux than the cost of the OS and plenty of expensive software available for x86 Linux that is very likely never to be ported to MacOS. Thinking of systems like Ansys, not in the context of games specifically. If one only ever rarely edits a photo, why pay for Photoshop, anyway?
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Hey, I ran software that cost $50k a seat on Linux. But I’m speaking in generalities.
 
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George Dawes said:
The ps5 is tbh a big disappointment to me , the whole design feels poorly thought out . It’s massive and not in a good way . In the old days we had super compact gaming monsters like the pc engine and the n64 , Saturn , Dreamcast etc .

This thing is enormous and impossible to fit into a normal av cabinet so it stands alone , stuck there like a big white lump . I find the design extremely irritating.

The games are no great shakes either and the pads are total and utter garbage , on my 3rd set after a year !
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They wanted it to look pretty and be "quiet". The Series X is smaller but it is a plain rectangle in comparison.

Sadly the first 2 years of any new console generation (at least in the past 3 console gens) have always had lack luster titles as publishers and developers end up supporting the old and the new systems to capture the most market share. Until the PS4 is dropped as a target platform we will likely continue to see games that do not really capture what people believe next gen should be all about.

Microsoft isn't helping things with their pseudo smart delivery requirement (at least for first party titles).

Since the PS3 Sony's gamepads have been fairly fragile compared to Microsoft.
 
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teh_hunterer said:
So disappointing that you simply disappeared after multiple people proved you wrong.

What you're missing is the price. Yes the M1 can do 2.6TF with 10W, yes the M1 Max can do 10.4TF with 60W, but the M1 Max MacBook costs 6 times the price of the PS5. The PS5 uses cheaper hardware that consumes more power and requires more cooling, but it's cheaper and hey it actually runs a decent amount of games that you'd want to play.

It's an ugly quality not to admit it when you're wrong.
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It's possible that the M1/Pro/Max cost less to make than the CPU/GPU inside the PS5. Not that it doesn't cost more for the consumer to purchase. Just that it may cost less to make for Apple than it does Sony. Generally consoles are sold at a loss. And if you lined it up to a typical PC would maybe cost double the currently sold price. Instead of $499 it would be more like $899 or when brand new $999. Those 4k Blu-ray drives alone would cost you several hundred by themselves when it was new. Not to mention the PS5 doesn't include a 4k/2k/1k monitor. The Mac mini would be (if they had a M1 Max option) the better compare than a laptop, but no Max in a Mini yet. However, lets just assume that there was one. The mini is easily half the size of a PS5, maybe closer to 1/3. It would maybe cost $2k for a M1 Max with 32GB ram and 1TB drive. Based off what you can spec it at present. Going with about $600 to $700 more for the M1 Max. It would make it more comparable at 1/3rd the size, 4x less the power draw. While costing in real terms about double a PS5.

Admittedly, I think everyone in Macrumors and all over the planet would love to have high quality games (AAA) written natively for the Mac. At least within a couple of months of release on the PC/Windows. And, very importantly well written fully native (M1/Metal) versions of them. As I think we have seen, some games can actually run better than the PC version even via the Rosetta layer given power consumption differences and clock speeds.
In current form there almost should be no way a 60W CPU/GPU M1 Max should compete with any 3 series RTX. Whether plugged in or not, desktop or mobile. AMD and Nvidia has had WAY more time to make those GPU's than Apple has with the M1. This should be a blow out when comparing them. I keep seeing $1500 to $1700 GPU's on sale at NewEgg and the like and say to myself W T F. Lord help AMD and Nvidia if Apple sells an M2 with 64GPU cores in a Mac Mini that beats those cards at like half the wattage or something for $2k. It will just get worse for the from here. But, what saves them is that there are not major games written for Mac. Too small a market. Wishing Apple would buy Unity or start a gaming studio.
 
jjcs said:
There are more reasons to use Linux than the cost of the OS and plenty of expensive software available for x86 Linux that is very likely never to be ported to MacOS. Thinking of systems like Ansys, not in the context of games specifically. If one only ever rarely edits a photo, why pay for Photoshop, anyway?
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Even for rare edits GIMP is a piece of crap.
 
cmaier said:
Hey, I ran software that cost $50k a seat on Linux. But I’m speaking in generalities.
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Most don't even notice the cost of Windows added to a machine, especially considering the cost of a lot of gaming rigs. It's up there with low-end PC workstations.
 
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