M1 or M2 - Also hardware

[jav6454]

I am in a fun place regarding a laptop. Please bear with me.

Currently, I have been using the aluminum 2008 MacBook for all my on the go stuff and my desktop for gaming. This setup has worked for quite some time, until my MacBook died a few months ago (August). At that moment I knew I needed a new Mac, but I decided to wait as I knew the refresh was upon us. I honestly thought we'd get the M2 based of the iPhone's new A15. But alas, that didn't happen. What we got instead was a A5X style new CPUs based off the M1 and improved bus-wise. Arguably strong contenders, but in my form factor (13" device), pointless.

That said, the M1 performs better in battery life than Pro/Max. Something I value. The inclusion of MagSafe is a good point for me, I loved it on my 13". What bothers me is that I'll be buying into a 1-year old CPU, which yes sounds foolish, but I am not keen on having on replacing my Mac within the next 4 years given my current one stood proud 10+ years. The screen on the MBPs is also a good deal. Although I originally I liked the new design chassis choice (Ti PB), I have come to dislike it now and rather have the "old" design chassis. I barely use external devices, so ports are moot to me.

So, what's the point of all this? I want the portability and battery capacity of the M1, but with a little more "umpf" in the CPU dept. What do? Fun in deciding.

Edit - Forgot to mention, I'm also thinking of waiting for the M2, but dread at the fact the the style of chassis might change.

 

[Slartibart]

so for 12+ years the mobile hardware you had worked for you and now the “age” of the hardware design of the M1 Pro and Max represents a spot of bother? ?
If anything there is substantial “Umpf” available now, isn’t it? ?
Okay, I’ll bite: what is it what you do on your mobile device?

 

[Gnattu]

If you don't want to buy an 1-year-old CPU, you can just wait for the M2 MacBook Air, which looks like fits all you need and will be shiny and new.

 

[EntropyQ3]

At some point in the future we will get an updated entry level Mac SoC, and updated entry-level Macs. We know neither SoCs, Mac designs, time frame or price. Anything anyone says is going to be speculation.

In terms of SoC, the present speculation is that the next entry level soc will have the same 4+4 CPU core configuration but a 10 core GPU. Basically a doubling of the A15 as the M1 was a doubling of the A14. Assuming that is so, and the process is still a TSMC 5nm variant, and Apple target the same power draws as with the M1, you're looking at a step corresponding to the A14->A15. I'll go out on a limb though, and speculate that the M2 will support LPDDR5 as main memory type, and thus the graphics (game) performance may increase by 40-50 % or so. CPU will probably be a more modest 10-15%. It may or may not get native ProRes support inherited from the new laptop chips. Video support is anybody guess. Battery life will depend on what new design Apple decides upon.

The current MacBook Air is one hell of a sweet machine. ;-)

 

[EugW]

I personally wouldn’t buy the current MacBook Air, specifically because of the dated design. I’d prefer to wait (maybe) six more months* if possible and get an M2 Air, not because of the incremental performance improvement but because it will most likely have a completely new design. It may be quite distinct from the Pro machines, but I’m guessing in a good way.

However, if you think you’ll probably still end up preferring the current design and want something now, then just buy the M1 Air. Performance of M1 is actually excellent, and if you get sufficient RAM (16 GB), it sounds like it could last you another decade.

*There is the problem with the above argument. We all know a new MacBook Air is eventually coming, and most agree it will have a brand new form factor, but predicting the specific release period is hard.

P.S. For my secondary machine I’m using an 8-core Xeon X5365 2007 Mac Pro. For that usage the performance is actually OK overall (Geekbench 5 multi-core ~2200, albeit with only ~400 single-core). I will most likely replace it with a Mac mini eventually, but not the M1, even though the M1’s performance is more than fine (1750 SC / 7700 MC). Why not? Because of the dated design, because of the version 1 growing pains (as in external monitor idiosyncrasies), and because the current model is short on ports. I’d probably get a hypothetical future M1 Pro base model to get a new form factor and more ports. The extra performance is superfluous.

 

[Slartibart]

If you don't want to buy an 1-year-old CPU, you can just wait for the M2 MacBook Air, which looks like fits all you need and will be shiny and new.

A design which then probably will be at least a year old ???

 

[EntropyQ3]

A design which then probably will be at least a year old ???

And - will a new design be better?
Or will they sacrifice battery capacity? Will they reduce the ports to a single one for differentiation purposes? Will the keyboard be compromised? How will you like a notch or cream coloured bezels?

The same goes for the Mini - will it even be upgraded, or will it get a new thinner design with an M2 in it in a year or so? Or will it have punchier SoCs but noisier cooling? We just don’t know. But newer is not necessarily better when it comes to Apple designs.

 

[Slartibart]

And - will a new design be better?
Or will they sacrifice battery capacity? Will they reduce the ports to a single one for differentiation purposes? Will the keyboard be compromised? How will you like a notch or cream coloured bezels?

The same goes for the Mini - will it even be upgraded, or will it get a new thinner design with an M2 in it in a year or so? Or will it have punchier SoCs but noisier cooling? We just don’t know. But newer is not necessarily better when it comes to Apple designs.

I am under the impression that the OP deliberates wether the M1 Pro/Max CPUs aren’t sufficient ”new” compared to anything CPU-wise evolving from the A15. My comments only refer to that - any A15-base M-Design will be “old” in the presented view of the OP. Which seems at least not completely thought through IMHO. ?

 

[Sterkenburg]

Something to consider is that Apple seems to have focused on GPU and efficiency improvements with the A15 architecture, with benchmarks showing a relatively minor difference in CPU performance vs. the A14 cores. Holding off in the hope of substantial CPU gains might not be a brilliant idea if you need a new machine right now. As for possible future proofing concerns, I really do not see CPU power becoming a bottleneck anytime soon except for the most extreme use cases.

 

[jav6454]

so for 12+ years the mobile hardware you had worked for you and now the “age” of the hardware design of the M1 Pro and Max represents a spot of bother? ?
If anything there is substantial “Umpf” available now, isn’t it? ?
Okay, I’ll bite: what is it what you do on your mobile device?

When I bought my MacBook, it was top of the line CPU spec wise back then. It had the nVidia 9400M and new CPU architecture from Intel. This machine was supported by Apple for over 4+ years in terms of OS updates and such.

It is not a bother, rather intriguing that Apple made a M1 variant versus just releasing a new CPU. This is not a troll thread so no need for "bite". I do my web surf, Photos (not Pro) and other work or office needs. I don't need it to game.

If you don't want to buy an 1-year-old CPU, you can just wait for the M2 MacBook Air, which looks like fits all you need and will be shiny and new.

Not a fan of the MacBook Air. Never have been.

At some point in the future we will get an updated entry level Mac SoC, and updated entry-level Macs. We know neither SoCs, Mac designs, time frame or price. Anything anyone says is going to be speculation.

In terms of SoC, the present speculation is that the next entry level soc will have the same 4+4 CPU core configuration but a 10 core GPU. Basically a doubling of the A15 as the M1 was a doubling of the A14. Assuming that is so, and the process is still a TSMC 5nm variant, and Apple target the same power draws as with the M1, you're looking at a step corresponding to the A14->A15. I'll go out on a limb though, and speculate that the M2 will support LPDDR5 as main memory type, and thus the graphics (game) performance may increase by 40-50 % or so. CPU will probably be a more modest 10-15%. It may or may not get native ProRes support inherited from the new laptop chips. Video support is anybody guess. Battery life will depend on what new design Apple decides upon.

The current MacBook Air is one hell of a sweet machine. ;-)

I know we don't know what the new models will be. I don't need ProRes modules. I don't do video editing for a living, so I know that's one feature I automatically do not need. It would be nice to have, but otherwise, unneeded.

Something to consider is that Apple seems to have focused on GPU and efficiency improvements with the A15 architecture, with benchmarks showing a relatively minor difference in CPU performance vs. the A14 cores. Holding off in the hope of substantial CPU gains might not be a brilliant idea if you need a new machine right now. As for possible future proofing concerns, I really do not see CPU power becoming a bottleneck anytime soon except for the most extreme use cases.

I have been orbiting this thought for a while now.

 

[MK500]

I think the battery life issue isn‘t going to be a big issue. It’s mostly the screen. The M1 Pro/Max will be able to run on those two efficiency cores when doing business workloads and there is a much bigger battery.

The huge huge huge (did I say HUGE) change here will be from your Intel machine to literally ANY M1. It’s just the biggest leap in decades. The difference beween M1 and any future M2 or whatever will be tiny by comparison. Think of it like the difference in performance between a one or two year old iPhone and current. It feels very small. I still use a 6s and frankly it’s quite acceptable when I compare it to my wife’s new iPhone.

Based on the fact that you continued to use a 2008 machine until now, I do NOT think you will feel any urgent need to upgrade to M2 or M3 or whatever over the next 5 to 10 years.

The revolution has already occurred. The rest will be evolution.

 

[ct2k7]

I think the battery life issue isn‘t going to be a big issue. It’s mostly the screen. The M1 Pro/Max will be able to run on those two efficiency cores when doing business workloads and there is a much bigger battery.

The huge huge huge (did I say HUGE) change here will be from your Intel machine to literally ANY M1. It’s just the biggest leap in decades. The difference beween M1 and any future M2 or whatever will be tiny by comparison. Think of it like the difference in performance between a one or two year old iPhone and current. It feels very small. I still use a 6s and frankly it’s quite acceptable when I compare it to my wife’s new iPhone.

Based on the fact that you continued to use a 2008 machine until now, I do NOT think you will feel any urgent need to upgrade to M2 or M3 or whatever over the next 5 to 10 years.

The revolution has already occurred. The rest will be evolution.

Annoyingly.. or maybe not, my Intel machine is fine with two screens, but my M1 Mac doesn’t support two thunderbolt screens

 

[ader42]

2 choices:

a) wait as long as you can before buying, then buy the best you can afford and enjoy it a long time.
b) buy what you need now and upgrade sooner as you see fit.

I feel that both have very similar financial costs.

Historically I’ve tended to do a) but I am now switching to b)

The reason? So many rumours are wrong, look at the apple watch rumours for example. We might not get an M2 MBA until 2023 and it might be based on A16. Originally rumours were the MBA would be refreshed this coming spring but the newer rumours now state later in 2022. I don’t expect a second generation of Mac chips until after all Macs have transitioned. So even a new MBA in 2022 might still have M1.

I do think an M1 will last you some years as along as you get 16GB RAM and a decent amount of storage.

 

[MK500]

Annoyingly.. or maybe not, my Intel machine is fine with two screens, but my M1 Mac doesn’t support two thunderbolt screens

This is so true! It was the one annoying thing about my M1 air. I was able to get things working comfortably on my two screens with a Displaylink dock; but quite annoying to figure out!

I ended up passing my M1 Air to my daughter since her high school computing needs jumped over the performance of her base 2013 Air, and then I ordered a maxed out 14” for me (not max on storage or RAM because I would have to sell my car).

*it would be +$2600 to max out and my car is 20+ years old

I think there will always be a few little gotchas on any new Mac. My guess with the new Pros is the HDMI 2.0 port instead of 2.1 will be annoying for a bunch of users; and historically will be the “stupid apple” move for this generation. Also the SD slot possibly not being at newest spec. I consider these mostly minor (they can be worked around easily and effect few users) but annoying none the less.

If I couldn’t afford it or my daughter didn’t need my M1 Air I think I would have happily continued using it for 5 to 7 years more. It’s an absolutely beautifully made machine.

 

[ct2k7]

This is so true! It was the one annoying thing about my M1 air. I was able to get things working comfortably on my two screens with a Displaylink dock; but quite annoying to figure out!

I ended up passing my M1 Air to my daughter since her high school computing needs jumped over the performance of her base 2013 Air, and then I ordered a maxed out 14” for me (not max on storage or RAM because I would have to sell my car).

I think there will always be a few little gotchas on any new Mac. My guess with the new Pros is the HDMI 2.0 port instead of 2.1 will be annoying for a bunch of users; and historically will be the “stupid apple” move for this generation. Also the SD slot possibly not being at newest spec. I consider these mostly minor (they can be worked around easily and effect few users) but annoying none the less.

If I couldn’t afford it or my daughter didn’t need my M1 Air I think I would have happily continued using it for 5 to 7 years more. It’s an absolutely beautifully made machine.

I really hope they don’t make this a distinguishing feature between the M and M Prom but they likely will

 

[LonestarOne]

Annoyingly.. or maybe not, my Intel machine is fine with two screens, but my M1 Mac doesn’t support two thunderbolt screens

There’s a workaround for that.

 

[ct2k7]

There’s a workaround for that.

My understanding is that the LG Ultrafine series which is DP over thunderbolt doesn’t work with the Plugabble? Let me watch the video

 

[LonestarOne]

No machine is perfect. Each of them has its drawbacks. I had an airplane that could do Mach 2 in full afterburner but (believe it or not) had no fuel gauge. You learn to adjust.

 

[MK500]

My understanding is that the LG Ultrafine series which is DP over thunderbolt doesn’t work with the Plugabble? Let me watch the video

This is also my understanding — won’t work. As an early adopter of M1 who has two monitors, I went pretty far down this rabbit hole. As far as I know, the display link dock I own has the highest spec, and it supports multiple displays using DisplayPort. But to connect to a display that only supports thunderbolt seems impossible. My only theoretical solution would be some kind of box that encapsulates the Displayport output into thunderbolt. This would likely quickly approach the cost of just buying new displays that suport Displayport and being pretty janky/theoretical.

With video standards always evolving, I have learned to always buy all monitors that support multiple standards.

 

[MK500]

No machine is perfect. Each of them has its drawbacks. I had an airplane that could do Mach 2 in full afterburner but (believe it or not) had no fuel gauge. You learn to adjust.

WOW! So you used timers to manage or what? Was there at least some sort of tank pressure gauge or something you could use to extrapolate? I suppose you could kind of “feel” the weight change in handling dynamics? Sorry for off topic; but huge aviation buff who spent his childhood flying Cessnas and asking a lot of questions at Oshkosh presentations here. Always interested in how hardcore pilots manage

 

[LonestarOne]

WOW! So you used timers to manage or what? Was there at least some sort of tank pressure gauge or something you could use to extrapolate? I suppose you could kind of “feel” the weight change in handling dynamics? Sorry for off topic; but huge aviation buff who spent his childhood flying Cessnas and asking a lot of questions at Oshkosh presentations here. Always interested in how hardcore pilots manage

Fuel flow rate, plus an idiot light that comes on when fuel drops to the level where the Russians thought a pilot should return to base.

 

[jav6454]

After reading thru Anandtech's reviews, the CPU side of things (the factor I care for most) is quite similar between both Pro/Max and the base M1.

Spending wise, the M1 MBP with 1TB SSD and 16GB RAM is around $1900 and the M1 Pro starts at $2000 (with a 512GB SSD). So I get less storage, but other beefed up internals.

That said and seeing as the extras are nice to have, I'll go for the 13" MBP to get better bang for buck storage wise. Not to mention there is no availability for the 14" until mid December.

 

[altaic]

Not to mention there is no availability for the 14" until mid December.

Just FYI (not trying to sway you one way or the other), Apple usually reserves a fair amount of stock to sell directly from Apple Store locations. So, even though it might say mid Dec. online, they should be available to walk-ins tomorrow.

 

[jav6454]

Just FYI (not trying to sway you one way or the other), Apple usually reserves a fair amount of stock to sell directly from Apple Store locations. So, even though it might say mid Dec. online, they should be available to walk-ins tomorrow.

True, but I do not feel like waiting outside the store.

 

[zarathu]

When I bought my MacBook, it was top of the line CPU spec wise back then. It had the nVidia 9400M and new CPU architecture from Intel. This machine was supported by Apple for over 4+ years in terms of OS updates and such.

Watch this video for the base model, and see if it fits your needs: