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GoodOl'TrashCan

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I am installing Mac OS Tahoe on an external Thunderbolt 3 NVME SSD, on an M1 studio. For reasons that I do not wish to explain or defend here, I wish to perform the installation with no internet connection, using a bootable usb thumb drive.

I am using a Tahoe bootable installer (usb-A thumb drive) that I have created per Apple's instructions: https://support.apple.com/en-us/101578. Yes, I downloaded the full, multi-GB installer from Apple and created the bootable thumb drive as Apple describes. I also created a macOS Monterey bootable installer via the same method (just to check if the earlier version would be more amenable to the old skool way of installing) — no dice, same result.

Unfortunately, it appears that even with the bootable installer, the process still requires internet connectivity.

With no internet connection, the install process initializes as normal, but on the screen showing the target disk and installation progress, the messages only manage to count down to "about 52 minutes remaining" (they start at 59 mins) before an alert pops up, saying "An Internet connection is required to install macOS. No available updates found. Please try again later."

Is it not possible to install macOS via bootable thumb drive anymore? If not, what is the point of having a bootable installer? 😱
 
Is it not possible to install macOS via bootable thumb drive [without Internet] anymore?
I don't know, I've never tried.

what is the point of having a bootable installer?
That one I can answer - to prevent having to download macOS.

Some networks prevent the download (e.g. many school networks), and some connections are slow or expensive enough to make it impractical.
 
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I have installed macOS on newer Macs without internet connection on multiple occasions recently, no issues whatsoever. Maybe you are running into some corner case, e.g. your firmware needs to be updated and the standard installer lacks the required components? No idea how the fact that you are installing to an external drive interacts with all this.
 
I am installing Mac OS Tahoe on an external Thunderbolt 3 NVME SSD, on an M1 studio. For reasons that I do not wish to explain or defend here, I wish to perform the installation with no internet connection, using a bootable usb thumb drive.

I am using a Tahoe bootable installer (usb-A thumb drive) that I have created per Apple's instructions: https://support.apple.com/en-us/101578. Yes, I downloaded the full, multi-GB installer from Apple and created the bootable thumb drive as Apple describes. I also created a macOS Monterey bootable installer via the same method (just to check if the earlier version would be more amenable to the old skool way of installing) — no dice, same result.

Unfortunately, it appears that even with the bootable installer, the process still requires internet connectivity.

With no internet connection, the install process initializes as normal, but on the screen showing the target disk and installation progress, the messages only manage to count down to "about 52 minutes remaining" (they start at 59 mins) before an alert pops up, saying "An Internet connection is required to install macOS. No available updates found. Please try again later."

Is it not possible to install macOS via bootable thumb drive anymore? If not, what is the point of having a bootable installer? 😱

In this article you linked, Create a bootable installer for macOS, Apple says this:

“Use the bootable installer​

Follow the steps based on whether you’re using the bootable installer on a Mac with Apple silicon.
Important: Your Mac must be connected to the internet so that the installer can get firmware and other information specific to this Mac model. If the macOS you’re installing is incompatible with your Mac, installation might not complete or your Mac might start up to a circle with a line through it.”

The other use case of a bootable installer is when you want to install a macOS version different from the one that “Reinstall macOS” in Recovery would download….typically when rolling back.
 
No idea how the fact that you are installing to an external drive interacts with all this.

The answer to this might be that making an external bootable drive requires the external to be connected to the non-DFU port as detailed in How to use an external storage device as a Mac startup disk.

@GoodOl'TrashCan did you plug the external into the non-DFU port? Since the internet requirement doesn’t seem to apply in all cases, based on @leman experience, maybe this was the reason it didn’t work for you.
 
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I was curious about this so just tried to reproduce the OP's finding.

TLDR I got the same result... "internet connection is required to install macOS". I also tried to install onto an internal volume with the same result.

I used an M4 Mini with a TB3 NVMe external plugged into a non-DFU port, and used a macOS26.3 bootable USB installer.

At about 34mins remaining I got the screenshot below. Then I created another APFS volume on the internal in the same container as the main install, and repeated the attempt, and got the same screenshot.

Screenshot 2026-02-21 at 10.19.23 am.png
 
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Thanks to all so far, for describing your own experiences and for pointing out oversights on my part (didn't see the info in the article I linked, I was just there cruising for the creation method/terminal bits). Apple stating the need directly kinda distills the topic, now doesn't it 😅

The point about the DFU port is interesting, however by sheer chance I seem to have already been using a non-DFU port. The target SSD was plugged into the left-most TB/USB-C port (the one near the corner), whereas it seems on the studio the right-most is the DFU port (the one near the ethernet port).

Since there is a reply describing the opposite experience as well as one describing the same (thank you @leman and @Mike Boreham ) I would like to ask for more details on these.

Boreham, since your install failed in the same manner as mine, with the main difference being the machine (same bootable installer OS [although 26.2 in my case], same type external SSD, same non-DFU port connection), I would like to confirm that the OS on the internal SSD for the machine in your screenshot has been set up like normal — I take it you have run through the initial setup from the internal on this machine, creating users and such? Also, maybe immaterial, but is your USB installer stick a USB-C, or a USB-A connected via adapter? (Assuming USB-C, on a mini; mine is a USB-A, plugged directly into an -A port.)

Leman, you said you've succeeded with non-networked installs recently. Can you provide any details: machine type, OS version, type of USB device used for the bootable installer? Knowing now that Apple's official line is "internet required" of course suggests non-networked installs aren't possible, but the fact that you've succeeded means there may be some kind of workaround, so I'd like to know more about your circumstance.

Thank again everyone!
 
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I would like to confirm that the OS on the internal SSD for the machine in your screenshot has been set up like normal — I take it you have run through the initial setup from the internal on this machine, creating users and such?

Slightly puzzled by this question. The OS on the internal was installed by migration from my previous Mac about six months ago and used daily. The internal is on latest release 26.3. So yes I have run through initial setup and created users on the internal…. a long time ago! Sounds like you are trying to install on an external connected to a mac which does not have the internal setup.

Also, maybe immaterial, but is your USB installer stick a USB-C, or a USB-A connected via adapter? (Assuming USB-C, on a mini; mine is a USB-A, plugged directly into an -A port.)

My bootable USB is on a fast Kingston 256GB USB-C stick connected by a short 40Gbps USB-C extension lead (to make it easier to plug in).

I am also interested to hear how @leman is installing successfully without internet.
 
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Except that @leman, one of the most respected and knowledgeable people on MR, says he has done it many times.

Thanks for your kind words, but I’m certainly not an ultimate authority in these matters. I could be confused (not the first time), and it is also possible that my experience goes not translate to everyone. I can imagine that it depends on your machine and the difference between the versions you are currently running or want to install.
 
Slightly puzzled by this question. The OS on the internal was installed by migration from my previous Mac about six months ago and used daily. The internal is on latest release 26.3. So yes I have run through initial setup and created users on the internal…. a long time ago! Sounds like you are trying to install on an external connected to a mac which does not have the internal setup.
That is correct. This mac has not been set up from the internal, only from an external.

In fact, I ran this machine for over a year from an external SSD, the OS on which was installed via recovery, presumably with an internet connection (per my notes back in 2022/23). It was a work machine, and when work shifted places so did my attention.

In the interim, for reasons unrelated, I used the SSD elsewhere, which entailed clearing the files, reformatting the disk, and promising to return someday. Letting it sit is obviously a waste, and lately I've been hobbying out on my macs again, so *someday has arrived, and I'm building a new system for esoteric purposes.

I'm now looking to get back to the same external-boot situation I had, but this time I'm taking my normal route for installing macOS (downloading/keeping an installer) rather than being in a hurry and doing it via Recovery. In using the USB installer I noticed that without an internet connection it seems impossible to run. Incredulous, I've come here looking for details, and especially reports of the same or different experiences (thanks again you guys!).

I think the issue gets more cloudy when we consider that I've not booted from the internal — there's apparently a concept of "ownership" on mac user accounts now, beyond just the admin/peon paradigm that I'm familiar with. This is why I didn't bring up the status of the internal SSD initially, because it seems like noise when the basic question is simply, "Is it possible to install with no internet?"

I am going to pause and let any more replies trickle in before presenting any more questions, likely in new threads. I have a hard time believing Apple (faith misplaced perhaps) would sell hardware that is unable to install macOS without phoning home, at the very least because of dependencies/requirements this puts on use of machines owned by folks who may not be able to/want to connect to Apple's servers. Seems more like a Windows move, or something that would come from that other vampiric software outfit, Adobe. Shocking, and a real bummer. 😕

I guess it's cool after all with my computing company of choice, if 2084 is just like 1984.
 
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it appears that even with the bootable installer, the process still requires internet connectivity.
this is true, even IF you somehow get the installer to proceed… you will HAVE to connect your Mac to internet to “activate”

Activation cannot be skipped or bypassed on any T2+Intel or Apple Silicon Mac, so basically any Mac released since 2018 requires a connection to Apple’s activation servers … just to get to your first boot after install. Just to clarify, I am not referring to any sort of account lock or iCloud lock, it is an activation process required to use the hardware after a system install

Sorry. I hate it too. There isn’t a workaround unless you are willing to use T1 and older Macs, which has its own huge set of drawbacks.
 
this is true, even IF you somehow get the installer to proceed… you will HAVE to connect your Mac to internet to “activate”

That’s a very good point, and an interesting issue in itself. Apples ownership model offers additional security, but it comes with its own inconvenience. Maybe the optimal way would be to maker this security feature opt-out, but is that even possible without weakening the security model?

I actually had an interesting experience recently. I gave an old device to a family member to try out, they did not like it and gave it back. The issue is that they have registered it with their iCloud account, but forgot the device pin and were also ins me to remove it from the device list because they messed up the security settings. We were stuck. I reached out to Apple and they reset the device ownership within a couple of hours. The process was very smooth. So it worked for me, but I can certainly see that for some people it wouldn’t.
 
No, it's not. You can make a USB installer, but macOS still needs to "activate" during the installation process. It just needs to check the Apple servers 1 time with WiFi/Ethernet. You can't connect to the internet 1 time to have it activate? You can use your Phone's connection if you don't have WiFi (Who doesn't have WiFi though?).
 
We were stuck. I reached out to Apple and they reset the device ownership within a couple of hours. The process was very smooth. So it worked for me, but I can certainly see that for some people it wouldn’t.
What do you think would happen if this had occurred in 5 years? 10 years?

I still have many classic Macs from the 1980s-2000s that still work because they don't require online activation to turn on. However, even older iPhones and iPod touch models cannot be reset and activated any longer due to requirements that can no longer be met for activation. Even if Apple support wanted to help, they can't bring an activation server online or send a signal to a computer without a working wifi/ethernet connection.

Personally, it seems like a short-sighted e-waste producing move. There's no way Apple will be supporting activation servers and free support for issues with them in 10-15 years for systems from 2017 that started this requirement.

At some point, a perfectly working Mac that gets a new hard drive or needs a reinstall will find out that Apple no longer supports it, or their Wifi no longer supports ancient devices... and the Mac will be stuck in a useless state.
 
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- It’s not the DFU port (it will appear to install but installation will fail and there will be no users)
- it’s not the firmware (you can update with internet, if firmware is needed it will download/install, if you wipe your machine the firmware stays but you still need a connection when you reinstall)
- It’s not Activate (you can wipe & activate your mac, shut down & try to install with a USB stick and it still fails with an activated Mac)

There used to be a specific terminal command that was supposed to include machine specific code when creating a USB installer - but I couldn’t even get that to work offline.

As previously said, short answer is no, the reasons are unknown.
 
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As previously said, short answer is no, the reasons are unknown.
The reasons are known? I don't follow why you say this. Even with a signed offline installer and the appropriate "owner" functions from the internal drive to allow booting from external media, every T2 or Apple Silicon Mac still needs internet to verify the device is not iCloud Locked & to pass the "Actvate Mac" screen that appears each and every time a macOS clean install is performed on these 2018 and newer Macs.

You can't use a boot disk prepared & "activated" on another Machine, as the owner key for that external drive is tied specifically to the internal boot SSD attached internally to the T2 on the given machine. There is no true way to airgap a 2018+ Mac from a clean install, as getting through the install process requires the OS & hardware identifiers being transmitted to  over the web. There is no workaround, supported or not, to avoid this.
 
No, it's not. You can make a USB installer, but macOS still needs to "activate" during the installation process. It just needs to check the Apple servers 1 time with WiFi/Ethernet. You can't connect to the internet 1 time to have it activate? You can use your Phone's connection if you don't have WiFi (Who doesn't have WiFi though?).
The issue for some is that the notion of connecting to Apple's servers to confirm permissibility of installation (or running, see below) of the OS represents a new status on the relationship between seller and buyer, owner and service provider — a status that I see benefitting mainly Apple (this promotes obsolescence by adding hurdles to scenarios overlooked by policy, generally increases leverage over important infrastructure, etc.). Of course, it also benefits, secondarily, the small portion of users whose gear or information would be stolen if not for the magic of centralized rule enforcement. The issue is that it does so at the expense of imposing restrictions on the entire bulk of users.

Personally I'm not worried about my gear or my info getting stolen — I lock them both up. Privacy in the sense of autonomy is another matter, but it's not the main goal I'm worried about in this case. I'm more interested in my computing devices being and remaining usable, and I agree with leman that something like "the computer locking itself under obscure conditions" (my phrase, not his) should be optional. I understand making it so it would likely add attack surface and undermine the overall security program, but there is surely a route that could realize the most important sec gains while still preserving the essential aspects of ownership.

Instead, we have a maximalist approach that benefits the world's most valuable corporation (well, not quite anymore) and a small minority of unfortunate/inept (sorry, no judgment) users.

It can of course be argued that Apple sells hardware for which it merely provides software, which may be allowed to run, or may not — "they don't owe us OS's," or some similar take. Ok, but that's not really how these systems work — the hardware and the software are together the product, which you purchase. Without both, neither is a product. And the transition to a scenario where the software requires checks and registration to run (not iCloud, I get it, but certainly a registry tracking specific computers, correlatable with particular purchase transactions, and correlating those not just with systems but system instances, again see below) means the relationship Apple users have with compute, becomes less like ownership and more like rental — not completely of course, but I hope you see my point.

____


I spent a bit of time this weekend doing more installations. I broke down and connected to the internet during installation because I find it important to come to an understanding of the situation, not to mention my desire to use my hardware. I'm not an inflexible privacy maxi (I am flexible lol), I just want to know what's up with my gear. While I may not prefer to do it this way, I'm unwilling to just let the computer sit, or to start hacking on it. Too expensive and useful to risk messing around.

I learned some things through this process. One is embedded in what I wrote above: hardware systems are now tightly correlated with specific system instances.

For example, using two separate external TB3 SSD's to install discreet systems in the hope of being able to swap back and forth with ease is now more complicated, and frankly, feels like I'm doing something unsupported. Even if I use the regular networked process to install the systems, merely swapping between these systems also requires internet connectivity when making the swap.

If I start up on system A, then switch to system B, the computer fails to boot unless connected to the web, presenting a message, "internet connection required to verify startup disk." I understand that this doesn't imply that starting the computer every time requires connectivity — but it does imply that every system starting up on a modern mac must be cleared in some manner by the Apple servers, and that this clearing process produces a lock on purchased hardware that limits its ability to run code it could otherwise run.

And the juiciest tidbit, in my view: downloaded installers are basically useless as a software archiving asset.

One of my tests involved installing the original version OS for this machine, Monterey, to the external SSD. I started with a 12.7.6 installer I downloaded just under a year ago, to create the bootable thumb drive. Early in the install routine, with the internet ON the whole time, I received a message about the OS being out of date and an invitation to continue in "reduced security" mode. Cool, but after accepting this, it still failed to restart into setup during that part of the install routine — yes, even with the internet connected the install failed, presenting a new message: "Reduced Security software update failed. Try again or restart to cancel the update." So I downloaded a fresh copy (via mr machintosh's Apple links) of the same version installer — 12.7.6 — and re-did the exact same thing… Voila, no messages, functional install.

With these two installers being the same OS version, the issue is most likely one of certificate expiry… showing up in under a year. Are you kidding me 🙃

Classically (as in, on my trashcan MP as well as my even older Macs) the standard workaround is to reset the system date, stay untethered, and retry. Works like a charm there, but not possible here when installation requires connection to Apple's servers. This example speaks clearly to the future of these machines — no way is Apple, one of the money-grubbingest, developer-extorting companies in the history of computing, going to maintain versions of these old OS's with updated security certs ten, fifteen years hence — they're going to let them expire and become useless and hide behind something in the TOS, just like Adobe has done with every version of their design suite from before CS5.5. Software, and especially operating systems (!) with expiration dates mean hardware with the same.

As a result of this new education I've just received, I can assure you that I will now do my best to ensure this studio's status as the last Mac I will ever buy. I've always justified Apple's hardware premium by continuing to run my machines for years into decades. I don't run my old Qaudra 800 (don't have it, sadly) but I bet I could, zip drive and all. Sad it isn't the same company anymore.

Opinions will be mixed of course, but this is not something I appreciate. Sure, for me it's a privacy/autonomy thing to some extent — think what you will about that. But ideology aside, there are practical implications here that should matter to anyone spending $6k+ on a computer. The future doesn't bode well for Apple hardware longevity, return on investment, environmental impact, or just plain ol' practical flexibility (/creativity!) on the Mac.

RIP.
 
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I personally think its a great feature and Apple has done right in using online activations - I can imagine the number of MacBooks etc being stolen drastically increase should one be able to reinstall the OS without any online activation. I, for one, am grateful for it.
 
I'd rather a stolen laptop not turn into ewaste now or later.

If someone steals my macbook, I'll replace it. I would be buying a replacement eventually anyway, and maybe I'll learn not to leave it sitting on a table in public (for example).

The second Apple turns off the activation server for T2 intel Macs, every single one of them that needs a reinstall or a replacement hard drive or gets wiped before selling to another person will become ewaste. Apple might as well be stealing the hardware back.

I think you're focused so hard on the macbook in your backpack that you are missing the actual issue with hardware being tied to an online activation service a company has no requirement to keep running.
 
Here's a meta-something I'm curious about.

What consumer-benefitting advantages can folks in this forum imagine stemming from this situation, other than preventing stolen macs from operating?

What Apple-benefitting advantages can we imagine, other than increasing customer appeal by touting safety in their product?


Real questions, looking for perspectives from both true-believers and cynics alike.
 
Here's a meta-something I'm curious about.

What consumer-benefitting advantages can folks in this forum imagine stemming from this situation, other than preventing stolen macs from operating?

What Apple-benefitting advantages can we imagine, other than increasing customer appeal by touting safety in their product?


Real questions, looking for perspectives from both true-believers and cynics alike.
👍 Agree.
 
I'd rather a stolen laptop not turn into ewaste now or later.

If someone steals my macbook, I'll replace it. I would be buying a replacement eventually anyway, and maybe I'll learn not to leave it sitting on a table in public (for example).

The second Apple turns off the activation server for T2 intel Macs, every single one of them that needs a reinstall or a replacement hard drive or gets wiped before selling to another person will become ewaste. Apple might as well be stealing the hardware back.

I think you're focused so hard on the macbook in your backpack that you are missing the actual issue with hardware being tied to an online activation service a company has no requirement to keep running.
Agree.

In reality what Apple does is not to protect the consumer, but itself. This is the case in relation to building more compact or thinner devices to make them environmentally friendly, since the true reason is to reduce production and distributions costs. If a Mac or any other device (even an automobile) is stolen for a few weeks or months, who knows what its condition be by the time one recovers it?

I should have added the following, in relation to my referring to "what Apple is doing" (above): I assume that for any company to stay in business, not just Apple, the owners have to figure ways to reduce production and distribution costs. The materials needed, labor, utilities advertisement, distribution, displaying, selling, and so on...all costs more each year.
 
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