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lec0rsaire

macrumors 68000
Feb 23, 2017
1,523
1,446
This crypto mining leeching is getting out of control. From websites to apps it’s going on all over the place. People can’t even get their hands on GPUs to play games or for development without paying double or triple the retail price for cards in some cases. This has become a plague similar to the way iAP destroyed mobile gaming as well as other pay once apps that used to be great. So much potential gone.

Ironically, in many cases the electricity bills erase the profits ordinary people make running power hungry rigs 24/7. It’s unbelievable how people get sucked in to easy money or a “digital gold rush.”
 

Analog Kid

macrumors 604
Mar 4, 2003
6,543
6,193
Interesting approach, I have to say. I don't see how this is any different that advertising supported features-- trading your resources for their product. Crypto-mining is more resource intensive, while ads are a combination of resources, time, and screen real-estate.

There two stories here:

  • One is that there was a bug in the app similar to earlier bugs that didn't turn ads off after an IAP, to the best of my knowledge Apple hasn't pulled buggy apps like this in the past.
  • The other is that app makers now see crypto-mining as a form of reimbursement for IAPs. The delay in pulling the app probably has more to do with this than the bug causing resource use. Apple needs a policy on this, and that will almost certainly take more than 24 hours to formulate.

To those complaining about how wasteful cryptocurrency mining is, I agree-- but some of us feel the same about advertising and entire apps such as Facebook and Instagram. Being a waste of resources hasn't been a reason to block apps in the past.
 

PaulRustad007

macrumors 6502
Jun 3, 2015
399
363
I have no idea how crypto currencies work at all...but from what I have read above, I can use electricity to get a token and sell that token to get dollars (of some sort) which I can then buy gold....a true philosophers stone?
 
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casperes1996

macrumors 604
Jan 26, 2014
6,778
4,712
Horsens, Denmark
I'm a bit split on this one. On one hand, if I could get something like Spotify Premium/Apple Music from letting the app use 20-35% of my CPU whilst it's running, I'd prefer that to paying for the service. It's not exactly environmentally sound though, and that makes me dislike it quite a lot :/
 
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nwcs

macrumors 68020
Sep 21, 2009
2,316
3,802
Tennessee
This statement shows a fundamental misunderstanding. For you to say blockchain will succeed and cryptocurrencies won’t is quite silly.

In order for a blockchain to function, a token must be rewarded to miners, this is the incentive for miners to propagate and hash-secure previous blocks. Without the token/currency - there is no incentive to use electricity or computing power toward securing the database. And that what blockchain is, a hash secured database.

I could agree that 99% of cryptocurrencies will disappear, but Bitcoin is here to stay.
[doublepost=1520893483][/doublepost]

Um no. Immutability is not a waste of energy. Christmas lights are a waste of energy.

Also most likely the program isn’t mining bitcoin, for the hashpower required for mining bitcoin is far greater than any GPU could provide, which is why bitcoin miners use ASIC’s (Application Specific Integrated Circuit) instead of GPU’s. Most likely it’s mining another cryptocurrency that isn’t bitcoin.
Block chain != crypto currency.
 

deanthedev

Suspended
Sep 29, 2017
1,287
2,406
Vancouver
Interesting approach, I have to say. I don't see how this is any different that advertising supported features-- trading your resources for their product. Crypto-mining is more resource intensive, while ads are a combination of resources, time, and screen real-estate.

There two stories here:

  • One is that there was a bug in the app similar to earlier bugs that didn't turn ads off after an IAP, to the best of my knowledge Apple hasn't pulled buggy apps like this in the past.
  • The other is that app makers now see crypto-mining as a form of reimbursement for IAPs. The delay in pulling the app probably has more to do with this than the bug causing resource use. Apple needs a policy on this, and that will almost certainly take more than 24 hours to formulate.

To those complaining about how wasteful cryptocurrency mining is, I agree-- but some of us feel the same about advertising and entire apps such as Facebook and Instagram. Being a waste of resources hasn't been a reason to block apps in the past.

This is what I think (that Apple has no official policy yet and is probably scrambling to come up with one). Obviously crypto mining done without your permission (whether an App, malware or a website) is deplorable. With all the negative press around illegal mining it never occurred to some users might allow it in exchange for services. It’s not that much different than advertising.

However there needs to be some rules. A simple Yes/No to mining is not enough. You should be able to specify limits (CPU/GPU usage, time of day, battery percentage...). You can’t just take over someone’s device and run mining at 100%.
 
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deanthedev

Suspended
Sep 29, 2017
1,287
2,406
Vancouver
But in order for a block chain to exist, you need a token. You cannot separate the ‘currency’. When will you people get it?

Simply put, a blockchain is just a distributed ledger. You can record data in a “block” and it can’t be changed later on.

While the most common use of a blockchain is currency, that doesn’t mean it’s the only thing it can be used for. You could use a blockchain to keep track of any type of data/transaction you choose.
 
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fairuz

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2017
2,486
2,589
Silicon Valley
Simply put, a blockchain is just a distributed ledger. You can record data in a “block” and it can’t be changed later on.

While the most common use of a blockchain is currency, that doesn’t mean it’s the only thing it can be used for. You could use a blockchain to keep track of any type of data/transaction you choose.
You have to reward the nodes for storing and verifying the information and provide an incentive for them to not try screwing things up. I can't think of a way to do that without it being a currency and without it being centralized somewhere. But I've also forgotten for the 10th time some of the details on how this works, so someone oughtta prove me wrong if I'm wrong.
 

Amacfa

macrumors 68000
May 22, 2009
1,923
4,170
D.C.
Simply put, a blockchain is just a distributed ledger. You can record data in a “block” and it can’t be changed later on.

While the most common use of a blockchain is currency, that doesn’t mean it’s the only thing it can be used for.

You could use a blockchain to keep track of any type of data/transaction you choose.
Actually, that’s called a database. A hash secured database is a blockchain. Each block is secured by a hash and cross references the hash from the previous block. This is why it’s called blockchain - because it’s a link of hashed blocks (or ledgers). In order to hash blocks you need computing power. For that you need equipment and electricity.

The point of a distributed ledger is that there are multiple (hopefully thousands of) computer systems verifying and recording each transaction. In the case of Bitcoin these are the miners, who are rewarded for maintaining the records by being given blocks of Bitcoin. Then there are nodes, which enforce consensus rules on the network and send transactions to miners to be propagated.

The security of the ledger/blockchain depends on the amount of computing power, and node count.

With new blockchains, that have low computing power, they are much easily to be compromised with a brute force computer attack. And blockchains with low node count run the risk of the entire system being shutdown/censored. What good is a blockchain if it can’t store records?

Blockchain is having a record that is distributed and immutable (meaning it cannot be altered or deleted). In order to do that, a token is necessary. Without it, it’s just a database like we’ve had for years.

I encourage you to dig deeper, bitcoin is fascinating.
[doublepost=1520903790][/doublepost]
You have to reward the nodes for storing and verifying the information and provide an incentive for them to not try screwing things up. I can't think of a way to do that without it being a currency and without it being centralized somewhere. But I've also forgotten for the 10th time some of the details on how this works, so someone oughtta prove me wrong if I'm wrong.
Nodes listen and verify new transactions to send to miners (to be put into blocks). Miners are the ones receiving the incentives (block rewards and mining fees)
 
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deanthedev

Suspended
Sep 29, 2017
1,287
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Actually, that’s called a database. A hash secured database is a blockchain. Each block is secured by a hash and cross references the hash from the previous block. This is why it’s called blockchain - because it’s a link of hashed blocks (or ledgers). In order to hash blocks you need computing power. For that you need equipment and electricity.

The point of a distributed ledger is that there are multiple (hopefully thousands of) computer systems verifying and recording each transaction. In the case of Bitcoin these are the miners, who are rewarded for maintaining the records by being given blocks of Bitcoin. Then there are nodes, which enforce consensus rules on the network and send transactions to miners to be propagated.

The security of the ledger/blockchain depends on the amount of computing power, and node count.

With new blockchains, that have low computing power, they are much easily to be compromised with a brute force computer attack. And blockchains with low node count run the risk of the entire system being shutdown/censored. What good is a blockchain if it can’t store records?

Blockchain is having a record that is distributed and immutable (meaning it cannot be altered or deleted). In order to do that, a token is necessary. Without it, it’s just a database like we’ve had for years.

I encourage you to dig deeper, bitcoin is fascinating.
[doublepost=1520903790][/doublepost]
Nodes listen and verify new transactions to send to miners (to be put into blocks). Miners are the ones receiving the incentives (block rewards and mining fees)

None of what you said counters what I said.

You previously said you can't separate the currency from the token. This is patently false. You can have a blockchain without currency.
 

Amacfa

macrumors 68000
May 22, 2009
1,923
4,170
D.C.
None of what you said counters what I said.

You previously said you can't separate the currency from the token. This is patently false. You can have a blockchain without currency.
You can separate the currency from blockchain. But then the advantages of it being a blockchain are lost.

At that point there is zero advantages, or difference, between a blockchain without a currency and a regular database.

Which is why it’s silly when someone sees value in blockchain without cryptocurrency.
 
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Tech198

macrumors P6
Mar 21, 2011
15,916
2,149
Australia, Perth
You mean they should give you their software for free? This isn't a charity.

Nope just don't use a device to mine at all..... If Apple had any sense of their approval process as they keep trying to reassure developers,they would get the message.

The fact Apple hasn't said anything doesn't mean they don't know...

The obvious thing for any company to do is when u are too embarrassed you know you've stuffed up is you keep quiet about it. As whoever approved it knows exactly what they did, they would not have missed it,, particularly it was clearly viable. Apple would have wanted to know how this is done. And someone at Apple just overlooked it..

If there was no shame, why aren't they responding?
 
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deanthedev

Suspended
Sep 29, 2017
1,287
2,406
Vancouver
You can separate the currency from blockchain. But then the advantages of it being a blockchain are lost.

At that point there is zero advantages, or difference, between a blockchain without a currency and a regular database.

Which is why it’s silly when someone sees value in blockchain without cryptocurrency.

If someone has information they need stored with increased security over a traditional database, then they might consider that ability worth the extra cost (processing power/electricity).
 
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960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,383
1,233
Destin, FL
A Mac App Store app called Calendar 2 has been mining a digital coin known as Monero using customers' machines...
So do many websites and casual games.

We have decided to REMOVE the miner in the app. The next version will remove the option to get free features via mining. This is for three reasons:

1) The company which provided us the miner library did not disclose its source code, and it would take too long for them to fix the root cause of the CPU issue.

2) The rollout had a perfect storm of bugs which made it seem like our company *wanted* to mine crypto-currency without people's permission, and that goes against our whole ethos and vision for Qbix.

3) My own personal feeling that Proof of Work has a dangerous set of incentives which can lead to electricity waste on a global scale we've never seen before. We don't want to get sucked into this set of incentives, and hopefully our decision to ultimately remove the miner will set some sort of precedent for other apps as well.

I smell BS or is that complete incompetence with a hint of lies?

#1: Here is the source code for Monero Miner:
https://github.com/monero-project/monero

#2: Yep, that is how we write the JS code in web browsers too. Gotta catch the crypto. Thank you for visiting.

#3: Maybe I underestimated the global use of Calendar 2. The run was good while it lasted mates. Next time, throttle the cycles to keep the user unaware.
[doublepost=1520909870][/doublepost]
Please take this as an honest observation to your post. I really am not trying to be inflammatory.
Bitcoin mining is a plague. Such a wasteful wasteful wasteful use of resources to create what only amounts to an agreement between people.
Isn't that what most everything is? I give up my life to put money in the pocket of my boss and hopefully myself as well. My boss could very well make enough money that it requires burning down a forest to print his paycheck. He can certainly say he is richer than me.

Aren't US dollars only a promise ( agreement ) between people. The paper money is actually worthless, only its agreed upon value.
[doublepost=1520910154][/doublepost]
You can separate the currency from blockchain. But then the advantages of it being a blockchain are lost.

At that point there is zero advantages, or difference, between a blockchain without a currency and a regular database.

Which is why it’s silly when someone sees value in blockchain without cryptocurrency.
I must disagree with you, sort of. Blockchain may be the next big thing in technology; like the wheel.
I can think of amazing uses for it that have nothing to do with currency that would benefit society as a whole.

I do agree that currency is the path to global acceptance, but not the end game of the technology.
 
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Amacfa

macrumors 68000
May 22, 2009
1,923
4,170
D.C.
I must disagree with you, sort of. Blockchain may be the next big thing in technology; like the wheel.
I can think of amazing uses for it that have nothing to do with currency that would benefit society as a whole.

I do agree that currency is the path to global acceptance, but not the end game of the technology.

It’s like yeast. Yeast by itself is nothing new, or special. But combine it with flour and water and you make (open source) bread.

You can and will have non-currency applications off the bitcoin blockchain.

The blockchain doesn’t serve a purpose without a token/currency. Non-currency applications can/should be built off existing (and most secure) blockchains like bitcoin.
 
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