Mac Automation Product Manager Sal Soghoian Leaves Apple After Position Eliminated

[Aldaris]

It really isn't:
http://dougscripts.com/itunes/2016/11/sal-sagohian/

I quote:
"Before we get all crazy, it is Sal that is no longer at Apple. The technologies remain."

And:
"Meanwhile, I am optimistic about the future of desktop automation on the Mac. "

People need to chill out. People come and go from jobs all the time. This is no big deal. The future has never been brighter for Apple and their powerful computing platforms.

I hope your sarcastic, if not step away from the look-aid.
... so let's just eliminate positions and people who helped get us here-toss out the innovators that helped further our software and services.

They milk these guys till the get what they think they need and drop them flat.

Complacency the new courage.

 

[Zedcars]

Man, this news sucks. I don't use Automator a lot but when I have I've always found it an enjoyable and powerful tool that's save me a ton of time. This guy is obviously brilliant at what he does. I'm really worried at the direction Apple is taking.

 

[Mr. Dee]

It looks like idea that the computer should be the bicycle for the mind is dying at Apple. Supply Chain Manager and Jony 'with no direction' Ive are taking this company is a direction where you can only hope for the best. I don't know, but the company's winning in the consumer space is consuming too much of the drive for revenue where they think it only matters. OS X has always carried a reputation of being a very dumbed down OS, but I guess with removing automation, that reputation only cements it. The objective is to make it a pretty dumb terminal for web browsing, looking at your synced photos and occasionally edit a few documents. Its just, is worth paying $4,200 just do that?

What happened to creating and sharing? They have dumbed down their pro apps and pro hardware. The OS is on the same path. Seriously, somebody needs to ask the team to watch the 2000 Macworld where Steve demoed OS X for the first time.

 

[Lunder89]

I do sincerely hope this doesn't mean automator is going to vanish from macOS in the future. That would really complicate some of my tasks, both at home and at work. Automator is for me one of the strongest reasons to never even consider a PC for the daily tasks.

The entire community around automator is great, and this guy helped build one of the best apps that exists for the Mac, period. Automator has seen a dive in functionality, iWork and Microsoft Office doesn't offer any automator actions today (except for a few Keynote actions). And that has already complicated several of my workflows.

 

[hiddenmarkov]

It really isn't:
http://dougscripts.com/itunes/2016/11/sal-sagohian/

I quote:
"Before we get all crazy, it is Sal that is no longer at Apple. The technologies remain."

And:
"Meanwhile, I am optimistic about the future of desktop automation on the Mac. "

People need to chill out. People come and go from jobs all the time. This is no big deal. The future has never been brighter for Apple and their powerful computing platforms.

So apple is being innovative and leaving this section running as is...without a manager? there is always a manager. Only time I have seen no manager is when a section is about to be "restructured".


Also not sure if you actually use CLI a lot. Many like me do. Many like me have homebrew as a must have install. IF CLI is lacking (why the homebrew...it gets back a lot of the convenience apple ripped out in their implementation of Darwin BSD in mac os) with people like this who cared about it....its not boding well.

 

[Jaro65]

He's held an important position at Apple since 1997, but his position gets eliminated and he just gets fired?

That takes courage.
[doublepost=1479360300][/doublepost]

This is not an isolated incident. There have been widespread layoffs throughout engineering in the past few months. The hundreds fired from the Titan car project was just the beginning. Sal and a number of other very senior managers and directors are gone, as well as lots of line staff scattered across many teams.

They weren't sub-par people either. Some of them were superstars. The common thread is that they were by and large very expensive. And there's a hiring freeze too. Apple is having serious financial stress this quarter, and they're using unprecedented cost-cutting layoffs to try to stem the damage.

God forbid they would consider releasing some updated products to relieve this financial stress.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

They just fired the guy? After 20 years?

 

[smulji]

This is not an isolated incident. There have been widespread layoffs throughout engineering in the past few months. The hundreds fired from the Titan car project was just the beginning. Sal and a number of other very senior managers and directors are gone, as well as lots of line staff scattered across many teams.

They weren't sub-par people either. Some of them were superstars. The common thread is that they were by and large very expensive. And there's a hiring freeze too. Apple is having serious financial stress this quarter, and they're using unprecedented cost-cutting layoffs to try to stem the damage.

Other than laying off hardware engineers for the car project, do you have evidence to support the rest?

 

[Roadstar]

They just fired the guy? After 20 years?

And eliminated the position altogether. That's not a good sign regarding user automation in macOS.

 

[budselectjr]

It really isn't:
http://dougscripts.com/itunes/2016/11/sal-sagohian/

I quote:
"Before we get all crazy, it is Sal that is no longer at Apple. The technologies remain."

And:
"Meanwhile, I am optimistic about the future of desktop automation on the Mac. "

People need to chill out. People come and go from jobs all the time. This is no big deal. The future has never been brighter for Apple and their powerful computing platforms.

Why cut off his original quotes to try and make your own narrative?

"Before we get all crazy, it is Sal that is no longer at Apple. The technologies remain. Let’s hope it stays that way."

"Meanwhile, I am optimistic about the future of desktop automation on the Mac. I guess I have to be. "

Apple prolly thinks stupid Siri will be able to take this over.

 

[MH01]

It really isn't:
http://dougscripts.com/itunes/2016/11/sal-sagohian/

I quote:
"Before we get all crazy, it is Sal that is no longer at Apple. The technologies remain."

And:
"Meanwhile, I am optimistic about the future of desktop automation on the Mac. "

People need to chill out. People come and go from jobs all the time. This is no big deal. The future has never been brighter for Apple and their powerful computing platforms.

The issue here is the position is gone and not Sal. If he was replaced, no problem....

 

[urbZZ]

They just fired the guy? After 20 years?

Obviously he's not thin enough and to cumbersome

 

[44267547]

A lot of disrespectful forum members disparaging against someone who lost his 20 year career. Pathetic.

 

[kkillam]

His position became automated.

 

[weup togo]

Other than laying off hardware engineers for the car project, do you have evidence to support the rest?

Those folks will have to speak up for themselves. I'm not going to drag individuals' linkedin profiles into the news cycle.

 

[Glassed Silver]

That's very VERY worrying to hear.

I still don't feel comfortable looking at Windows as a sole daily driver, but macOS might not be a decent platform for me much longer if this trend finds some form of "end goal" of making macOS such a development ressource-drained piece of software...

I've not been this shocked by a piece of macOS news for a LONG time.

****ing beancounters ruining legacy and competitive advantage...

Glassed Silver:ios

 

[Roadstar]

That's very VERY worrying to hear.

I still don't feel comfortable looking at Windows as a sole daily driver, but macOS might not be a decent platform for me much longer if this trend finds some form of "end goal" of making macOS such a development ressource-drained piece of software...

I've not been this shocked by a piece of macOS news for a LONG time.

****ing beancounters ruining legacy and competitive advantage...

Glassed Silver:ios

I fully agree. Windows does indeed have some rough edges compared to macOS, but I've started conditioning myself for the switch as Apple's current hardware offering doesn't quite meet my needs and budget and the software quality isn't what it used to be either. News like this are just reaffirming the need to investigate the alternatives.

 

[KALLT]

Is this the beginning of the end? Will they turn it into another version of iOS now?

Ironically, Apple has been adding extension points to iOS since iOS 8 and has been greatly enriching the platform APIs for a couple of years now. For example, developers can now query the music library and even make changes to it. It seems obvious to me that Apple is looking for extensibility elsewhere now and has accordingly been laying the foundation for this.

Automation support on OS X has always been rather flimsy and erratic. I almost doubt that Apple has ever been truly committed to it. The same bugs that I had since Leopard are still there and probably have been since time immemorial. Folder actions fail to trigger every now and then and debugging workflows is not that straightforward either. Given the limited set of pre-defined actions in Automator, you will quickly turn to scripting languages. Chances are that if you have that knowledge already, you might find comfort in Xcode in the future. Xcode, which coincidentally has just received an extension point of its own, which lets developers write their own extensions for Xcode.

The Unix foundation is also still there and if you are seriously using platforms such as Python and Ruby, you will likely not use Apple’s preinstalled and chronically outdated versions anyway.

 

[44267547]

They just fired the guy? After 20 years?

I also view at is there are two sides to every story. He has his and Apple has there rendition as to why he (And position) was eliminated. Being for privacy regulations, clearly Apple will never comment on the situation.

 

[typecase]

OK, now I'm starting to panic about the future direction of macOS. Things like the shell and AppleScript are crucial for me and a key reason why I prefer the Mac. Is this the beginning of the end? Will they turn it into another version of iOS now?

This is very concerning. Every since Mountain lion (or perhaps Lion), OS X quality and it's commitment to pro level tools has really been concerning. The removal of the Apache webserver which used to be easy to configure is gone as a core service (you can still add it but it's way more difficult to configure than it used to be with a single click). They removed a more powerful disk utiliy in ElCapitain and Sierra. Buggy core systems are also problematic. Energy saver doesn't work like it supposed to and the removal of key features like automation is likely next to "simplfy" mac OS X. Apple seems to be headed in a direction I don't understand. Their hardware and software teams are leaving their pro users in the cold.

Another day, another Cupertinoian red flag. It's like watching the titanic sink in very slow motion.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[slicktor]

Tim: Sal we have to talk. You haven't contributed anything to the new Emoji initiative.
Sal: But I work on automation for mac.
Tim: Mac? Sorry Sal, but this is Mack. He is the new manager for our new Emoji development team.
Mack: Bummer Broooooo but check out this new peach emoji!

 

[Glassed Silver]

I fully agree. Windows does indeed have some rough edges compared to macOS, but I've started conditioning myself for the switch as Apple's current hardware offering doesn't quite meet my needs and budget and the software quality isn't what it used to be either. News like this are just reaffirming the need to investigate the alternatives.

Install Bootcamp, load Windows and try not to reboot into macOS for as long as you can.

Train the soft switch, nobody likes moving when the building has already collapsed, get a couple of bags of necessities into the trunk and hope you don't need to move.

The least you achieve is feeling more in control in a situation where Tim does a lot of talk, but doesn't commit actions and ressources to gain your trust.

Every couple of months you hear about the great pipeline and whatever else sounds good, but if you look at the Mac's development, just the direction setting aside the growing gaps in between updates...

I really try to look at all of this as optimistically as I can, but they make it SO DAMN HARD.

**** this leadership.

Glassed Silver:ios

 

[Naraxus]

No pro computers, why would they need anybody to write pro-level apps & code for them?

 

[leman]

I also find this very worrying. I mean, it's ok if they are just restructuring, but if they actually simply remove the position without creating an alternative, then its indeed not boring well for the future of automation.

 

[Markoth]

No pro computers, why would they need anybody to write pro-level apps & code for them?

Automation technologies are useful for everyone. There are many AppleScripts out there that Mac users who have no idea how to write one, use daily. I generally write my own, but I'm in the minority. These are key advantages, that the beancounters at Apple are obviously unaware of.