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Mac Marketshare Growth in High End Retail Market
- Thread starter IJ Reilly
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Nice list!
The rule is never believe that Apple will not do something. That much is for sure. Apple can and does change it's directions from time to time.
Yep - pretty much got an ipod touch with a larger screen and hard-drive space here. Would suit my mother fine.
Hey, just thought of something, with a setup like that, then Apple could tap into the POS kiosk/resturant market, where Micros and other touch screen devices are used.
Sounds like a winner to me.
no money to be made in the low end market?-lets say APPLE makes just $50 profit on a low-end model-when they start exponentially multiplying sales, pretty soon youre talking big money.
Grocery chain stores get by with 2% profit margins-its just that they sell LOTS of 2% stuff to get rich.
APPLE could do the same thing and knock that Dell and HP crap outta the park
Grocery chain stores get by with 2% profit margins-its just that they sell LOTS of 2% stuff to get rich.
APPLE could do the same thing and knock that Dell and HP crap outta the park
So now Apple should model themselves after the grocery business? That's probably the strangest suggestion yet!
So, all this talk about a sub $1000 computer. well, here is my problem with that.
1. All the sub-$1000 computers I seen are relatively low-grade, another words: lower processors, Cd/DVD combo, small hard drive, not much ram, etc.
(especailly if we are talking about a laptop). Or that have all that stuff, but they are still almost $800, so why not just spend the $200 more and get a better system.
that would be great as an entry level computer, but one starts to realize quickly that need more.
2. Yes sub-$1000 computers are already out there (not Apple), but once you add in all you need/like the price jumps up to $1000 or more quickly.
3. Small parts cost more until the demand & technology increases. So if you want it smaller, it will cost more to make initially. You can't have small and inexpensive without cutting features.
4. Now, I would agree that we need a sub-$1000 laptop or desktop that meets the majority of the home users (something slightly more advanced/capable than the mini). I always wondered why Apple just does not include the keyboard and mouse with the mini. All desktops on the PC side of the world come with one.
It used to be that Apple only appealed to the Elite video types, but since more and more are seeing the value of having a mac, and more and more "regular users" are switching to mac everyday - then I can see where this could be a market to enter into. the problem then becomes, if apple was to start offering this - where to cut features to make the $1000+ ones desireable, and if you cut features you make people mad. So where do you win. I only bought one computer in my life that was less than $1000, and I was not happy with its performance.
1. All the sub-$1000 computers I seen are relatively low-grade, another words: lower processors, Cd/DVD combo, small hard drive, not much ram, etc.
(especailly if we are talking about a laptop). Or that have all that stuff, but they are still almost $800, so why not just spend the $200 more and get a better system.
that would be great as an entry level computer, but one starts to realize quickly that need more.
2. Yes sub-$1000 computers are already out there (not Apple), but once you add in all you need/like the price jumps up to $1000 or more quickly.
3. Small parts cost more until the demand & technology increases. So if you want it smaller, it will cost more to make initially. You can't have small and inexpensive without cutting features.
4. Now, I would agree that we need a sub-$1000 laptop or desktop that meets the majority of the home users (something slightly more advanced/capable than the mini). I always wondered why Apple just does not include the keyboard and mouse with the mini. All desktops on the PC side of the world come with one.
It used to be that Apple only appealed to the Elite video types, but since more and more are seeing the value of having a mac, and more and more "regular users" are switching to mac everyday - then I can see where this could be a market to enter into. the problem then becomes, if apple was to start offering this - where to cut features to make the $1000+ ones desireable, and if you cut features you make people mad. So where do you win. I only bought one computer in my life that was less than $1000, and I was not happy with its performance.
Right! And good thing they stuck to that strategy with the iPod... er... oh, wait a minute.
Look, I understand these are good numbers for Apple and goodness knows I don't want to relieve myself on your one-man parade and all, but come on. You do realize that the numbers cited in this are extraordinarily skewed, right?
None of those statements on my list are strawman arguments. I've been on these forums for 5 years now, and every single thing on my list was proclaimed authoritatively by many people here (me included, in some cases.) Do an archive search, if you don't believe it. Those arguments sometimes raged on for many months. I think if I've learned anything in that time it's that nobody on these forums--nobody--can say with any authority what Apple will or will not do.
In correct on Grocery
I was a Grocery manager for 15 years and the margins are higher than that as whole. Produce is around 30 to 45 margins, Meat around the same, Bakery is around 20 to 30. Grocery can be around 5 to 15 depending on the store. In over all dollar sales a store averages around 10 to 25 margins from the low to the high end. Grocery itself is low but it is the the associated departments that pushes up the numbers. These are where the profits are made.
The Primary reason people come back to a store is the quality and presentation of Meat, Produce and Bakery along with service. People will tend to pay more if these things look good and they will also be willing to come back.
I was a Grocery manager for 15 years and the margins are higher than that as whole. Produce is around 30 to 45 margins, Meat around the same, Bakery is around 20 to 30. Grocery can be around 5 to 15 depending on the store. In over all dollar sales a store averages around 10 to 25 margins from the low to the high end. Grocery itself is low but it is the the associated departments that pushes up the numbers. These are where the profits are made.
The Primary reason people come back to a store is the quality and presentation of Meat, Produce and Bakery along with service. People will tend to pay more if these things look good and they will also be willing to come back.
Incorrect on Grocery
I was a Grocery manager for 15 years and the margins are higher than that as whole. Produce is around 30 to 45 margins, Meat around the same, Bakery is around 20 to 30. Grocery can be around 5 to 15 depending on the store. In over all dollar sales a store averages around 10 to 25 margins from the low to the high end. Grocery itself is low but it is the the associated departments that pushes up the numbers. These are where the profits are made.
The Primary reason people come back to a store is the quality and presentation of Meat, Produce and Bakery along with service. People will tend to pay more if these things look good and they will also be willing to come back.
I was a Grocery manager for 15 years and the margins are higher than that as whole. Produce is around 30 to 45 margins, Meat around the same, Bakery is around 20 to 30. Grocery can be around 5 to 15 depending on the store. In over all dollar sales a store averages around 10 to 25 margins from the low to the high end. Grocery itself is low but it is the the associated departments that pushes up the numbers. These are where the profits are made.
The Primary reason people come back to a store is the quality and presentation of Meat, Produce and Bakery along with service. People will tend to pay more if these things look good and they will also be willing to come back.
Who said that? SJ let it be known that EDGE was being used currently because 3G chips at the time took too much power.
And they're just about to reverse themselves on that, aren't they? In spite of that, many people here and elsewhere would take up Jobs' argument and run with it when it was likely Jobs was simply throwing out whatever defense he could come up with to stave off criticism until they could fix it.
You can nitpick my list all you want but the fact is that a lot of people come here and authoritatively declare what Apple will or won't do and they often turn out to be wrong.
Just because somebody somewhere says some peculiar and unfounded thing does not make it a legitimate argument, which is the point of a strawman -- essentially phony arguments which can be easily refuted.
It's a basic principle of grocery stores and web 2.0 that volume brings profits. Huge volume with small margins equals decent profits. The hook is always that if you gain the volume, a tiny margin adjustment can reap huge rewards. 1 cent on 10 million units? 1 dollar on 10 million units? Some seem to find that less noble than overcharging for far fewer units to bring up the bottom line.
Here's my flamebait:
The reason Apple wins in the +1000 bracket is that people can get perfectly decent and usable PCs for less than 1000. No need to spend more for most. With the current Mac line, you can buy components from 2006 as brand new in 2008 for that price, or spend more.
Here's my flamebait:
The reason Apple wins in the +1000 bracket is that people can get perfectly decent and usable PCs for less than 1000. No need to spend more for most. With the current Mac line, you can buy components from 2006 as brand new in 2008 for that price, or spend more.
Dell is one of the few manufacturers that barely gives you bloatware on their home computers. Unless you consider Adobe Acrobat bloatware.
Have you bought a dell lately? Are you telling me you got nothing except Adobe as trial. Seriously take another look. The list is long. It's another way to reduce the price of the machine. They get discounts for bundling in trial software!
Yes you make a good point. Maybe you are knowledgeable and have time on your hands. 95% of the population doesn't. They neither know how to really support an OS nor do they have time to maintain it. Perhaps you are a true unix shell command line user. Good for you. I personally don't have time for that. I want a machine that works as quickly as possible, is intuitive to use and learn on and is fairly maintenance free. Windows tries to do this but you truly need to be an IT guy to really know how to maintian it and keep it running well.
It depends on the model but you can usually save $50 getting an Ubuntu machine. Not to mention OEM Windows isn't $199-399. Which version of Windows is $399? Even at retail prices.
Microsoft Vista Ultimate is $399
All I am trying to say is that if Dell makes a computer with the EXACT same hardware that Apple uses, it's price will be very close to Apple's. I'm not saying what Apple uses is the best....but it's def better than most sub $1000 computers.
Sure I understand. I guess sometimes logic sinks in for me. If you are going to be cheap on a computer, please be consistent and be cheap all the way. Don't go try to save $100-$200 on a computer that will impact your life for several years and then turn around and spend it on one meal that will impact one dinner! That's just me though. If you think one dinner is more valuable than 4 years on a nice computer, then go for it.
ERm....is this "of all retail sales" worldwide or just in the U.S. Let's be a little more specific
You're more than welcome to show how each and every one of the statements in that list was phony and illegitimate, and exactly how this new one is not.
ERm....is this "of all retail sales" worldwide or just in the U.S. Let's be a little more specific
The article is specific, and the portion of the article I quoted answers your question.
Those who are not technically inclined like my parents would continue to buy the mac pro. My mother, a pro photographer, and mac pro user barely knows the difference between RAM and the Hard Drive. but she knows how to work pro apps from apple better than the people at the apple stores. many people have know idea how to upgrade their hard drive much less a graphics card, does that mean that they should not be allowed to have a powerful computer. I think not.
How much of a waste of effort would that be? Entirely. How much would it miss the point? Entirely.
Riiiight. That's one of the points I'm getting at with such a list.
Phony arguments can be easily refuted in retrospect. When people come here and announce that Apple would never do XYZ in a million years and cite whatever they feel to be the reason (and often those reasons sound pretty rational) it's hard to argue against that. My list just shows that no matter how good an argument is against Apple doing something in particular, there's a long history showing otherwise.
For me, the quintessential example was the rumored switch to Intel. I can't recall many people believing that one (including me) and the arguments against it sounded solid at the time (especially the one line of thinking that said there's no way Apple could port the entirety of OS X over to another processor.) But it happened anyway, much to everyone's amazement. Even after it was official, people argued here about what a bad move it was--something I view as a saving-face move.
So when I see people rattling off a list of rational sounding reasons why Apple would never ever ever ever ever produce a mid-cost, mid-range headless Mac, I just laugh at that. Apple has shown at this point that they will elude our best guesses every damn time. Nobody can say authoritatively that such a box will never happen, but it doesn't stop people from doing so.
And you know, the day Apple releases it, those same folks will be all over these forums talking about how brilliant it was that Apple did it.
It depends on the model but you can usually save $50 getting an Ubuntu machine. Not to mention OEM Windows isn't $199-399. Which version of Windows is $399? Even at retail prices.
Um, Vista Ultimate costs $399 unless you buy the upgrade which is only $299.
I see. I didn't read it that way, but if that's what you intended, then I agree.
Apple does have the capacity to surprise even the most astute observer. I'd never bet against them doing anything, at least not absolutely. But I think we can know why they are not pursuing certain markets. Some people seem to think that Apple doesn't understand the computer business, and this belief appears to inform their opinions about which products Apple can sell profitably. I believe the clear and abundant evidence is that Apple understands this market very well, a lot better than the random poster arguing that Apple is making a big mistake if they aren't selling whatever product they'd like to buy at any particular moment.
Dell is one of the few manufacturers that barely gives you bloatware on their home computers. Unless you consider Adobe Acrobat bloatware.
You have to be kidding me, My POS dell that i got 5 years ago was loaded with bloatware when I got the piece of crap. I had to do a HDD wipe and had to install my own copy of winsh*t on it. First time I started it Norton antivirus, dell's version of photoshop, rhapsody, some music store thing, and last but not least some survey program asking me to rate my experience with dell popped up. Don't give me that crap that dell's don't have bloatware.
What is your point Win 98 was launched almost 11 years ago not 5 years ago.