zapmymac
macrumors 65816
The fiasco is capable Win10 machines not being able to upgrade to win11 because of the MS requirements of certain gen CPU's and m/b's not having a security chip that is new enough...
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Mac mini and studio comprise 1% of Mac sales
- Thread starter thebart
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Does that differ from what Apple does?
Chuckeee
macrumors 68040
I had the impression this was less an issue with window machines since the window’s hardware wears out and is refreshed my often. As a result, the portion of old window machines still around that are incompatible with OS upgrades is much smaller
alfonsog
macrumors 6502a
I use a studio with a 32" display for most of my work and messaging. I only consume media on my TV or AVP. I don't use my iPad but for sheet music. I have a m2 MacBook Air but it's not even charged right now since I use it so infrequently that I should sell it... I've always used desktops since I was a boy.
zapmymac
macrumors 65816
Notable. Especially since one can build your own system, some high end systems in fact. MS is certainly taking a page out of the Apple playbook though... one of the key differences though is Microsoft usually backtracks a little bit more bullheaded. It will be interesting to see if/where the red line will be drawn for Microsoft and Windows 11 come next year when 10 is EOL.
zapmymac
macrumors 65816
It *was* less of an issue, but Win10 to Win11, goalposts have moved a bit. MS desperately going to Windows as a service muddies the waters up I think. Microsoft doesn't want another Windows Vista fiasco. Interestingly, Microsoft is now letting individuals pay for post end of life support so should be interesting.
curnalpanic
macrumors 6502a
Question; in this survey, are people self-reporting which models they own? Because I often hear some refer to Macbook Air as "Mac mini" (presumably because it is so small), and Macbook Pro becomes "Mac Pro".
Obviously the details are different, but Windows 11 launched in 2011, while Windows 10 support ends in 2025. So, superficially any PCs abandoned by Win 11 got 4 years of support, which isn't too dissimilar to Apple's unpublished Mac OS support cycle. Apple only has a dozen or so current Mac models to worry about, so they can make sure that they don't drop support until 4+ years after they stop selling a product, but with so many different PC vendors, system builders and component makers, you can't really apply that to the PC market. I think there were some fairly new Xeons dropped by Win11 - but that was only a fraction of Intel's Xeon line up, let alone PCs in general.
I think the difference is that Apple users are now used to losing access to new OS releases after their machines are 4-5 years old whereas Windows users are used to more support for legacy hardware. Windows XP got 12 years of support! So Win11 was a bit of a culture shock to PC users...
The "legitimate" reason is the increased demand for security in a world where most personal computers are permanently connected to the internet. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that any personal computer bought after ~2010 is potentially "good enough" for the majority of consumer, "personal productivity" and casual content creation (do you really need your holiday vids at more than 1080p?) and so the industry is having to double down on forced obsolescence a bit...
virgin71
macrumors newbie
I would say, that it's Apple's fault. Mini was awesome, when we could change RAM and HDD swap to SSD. It was really cheap Mac for devs, back in ~2012. I made mini sales better. At the moment, 600$ is nice deal, but with no chance to upgrade. If you are about to develop macOS or iOS app, you need buy extended version, at least with RAM upgraded to 16GB. It makes mini $800. If you will compare it to MBA for $1200 with keyboard and nice display to desktop for $800, with a need to buy 4k display (~$200 for basic 27 inch) and nice keyboard (nice logitech is ~$100) and mouse (again, logitech is ~$100) it so pointless. Only if you really need desktop, you could think of mini.
iMac sales is way better, but only because of the design and really nice look when you work on it in hotel/private hospital reception and so.
I am also working at home most of the time, so I bought MBA. My dad, who had 4K display already - he used it with previous mini, he was saving money to get a new Mac, but that's rare.
So basically, that's Apple fault at all (almost). Additionally, desktop era is ending. In cloud gaming era, having desktop Mac or Windows PC became pointless.
iMac sales is way better, but only because of the design and really nice look when you work on it in hotel/private hospital reception and so.
I am also working at home most of the time, so I bought MBA. My dad, who had 4K display already - he used it with previous mini, he was saving money to get a new Mac, but that's rare.
So basically, that's Apple fault at all (almost). Additionally, desktop era is ending. In cloud gaming era, having desktop Mac or Windows PC became pointless.
LavaLevel
macrumors member
I had very few drop out issues with my MacMini (2011) but a few. My current Mac Mini M2 256/16 I got last week I've had none so far. That problem might be in the past. Either way congrats on your M2 Mac Studio! I'm hoping to save enough to trade this one in for an M3 Mac Studio after they are announced.
Coming from SSD early 2010 era Macs, these M2's feel amazing. No waiting around for the computer to come to life and do its tasks!
Anonymous Freak
macrumors 603
I’m not surprised that the laptops outsell desktops - not even surprised at the extreme ratio. I’m purely surprised/doubtful that the Pro outsells the Mini.
Anonymous Freak
macrumors 603
Clix Pix
macrumors Penryn
For me, since I am retired and spending a lot more time at home and also for a long time very much into photography, the decision has been made that my next new Mac will be a Studio......
As well, I'll be keeping my current MBP as a portable machine to use when going around town, when traveling, etc. Since 2015 I've been using a setup of an MBP used as a desktop replacement and this strategy has worked out very well for me. Not in any rush here, but it's nice to know in which direction I will eventually be heading next in order to keep having the best of both worlds......
As well, I'll be keeping my current MBP as a portable machine to use when going around town, when traveling, etc. Since 2015 I've been using a setup of an MBP used as a desktop replacement and this strategy has worked out very well for me. Not in any rush here, but it's nice to know in which direction I will eventually be heading next in order to keep having the best of both worlds......
boswald
macrumors 68040
I'm basically retired (disabled) so I want to get into photography as well. Would you recommend at MacBook Air as a decent starting point? I have a Windows PC synced to iCloud, but I want to get rid of it.
Clix Pix
macrumors Penryn
It has been many, many years since I last used a Windows machine, so can't provide any help there! A lot depends upon what you're doing with photography, what you like to shoot and how frequently, and also, yes, the gear that you're using as well. I honestly can't offer any suggestions about using a MBA for image processing and storage since it has also been quite a few years since I last had one and since at least right now at the present time an MBA would not serve my particular photography-related needs.
I shoot a lot (pretty much daily), I have cameras with a lot of megapixels and I shoot in RAW, rather than straight-out-of-camera with .jpg. This then involves culling and then working with editing images in one or more software programs designed for this purpose. I don't use Apple's "Photos" program as it never has and still does not meet my needs.
That said, a lot of people do use Apple's "Photos" program and it works out well for them. Definitely this would be a good starting point if someone has not already been doing much with shooting photos and then editing them. It's a different process from shooting images with an iPhone and then just quickly sharing them with family and friends.
Moving past all that, to answer your question, if I were looking to buy a MacBook Air for use for working with photos as well as for everyday general use, too, I'd go with a maxed-out 15" one. This will give you some decent screen real estate, which is needed when viewing and deciding how to adjust/edit images, and it also will have the maximum amount of storage space (SSD) and RAM, both of which will be valuable to you.
In addition to that, though, I would also recommend purchasing one or more external drives, either HDD or SSD, to use as backups/supplements to the computer. Actually, backups of one's critical and important files are absolutely necessary, whether dealing with photos or not, and if you' re not already backing up your work, then start doing so!
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splifingate
Contributor
If such Accounting were true, the iPhone Mini would surely still be offered 🤷♂️
splifingate
Contributor
Removing a number of desktop advantages naturally shifts sales toward notebooks. Consider the historic advantages desktops had, particularly on the Windows side:
1.) More powerful processors - for heavier duty work. Apple's focus on efficiency is nice, but one wonders if they were willing to offer noisy, higher power options, what could be done.
2.) Larger, more powerful non-integrated GPUs for gaming. Apple's pretty much stuck us with integrated GPUs.
3.) More RAM slots for 3rd party sourced memory expansion; cheaper to add, and the system could hold a lot. Now Apple as system-on-a-chip, the RAM you buy it with is all you'll get, and maxing RAM is...heh, not all that affordable with Apple's pricing.
4.) At least a few drive bays for internal expansion so SSDs, for example, can run at maximum speed without needing external drive housings. The Mac Pro is way too expensive for most home users; the Studio and Mini appear designed to avoid giving us that option.
5.) More internal space and airflow for better odds at longevity and durability. I hear many Mac notebooks really go the distance these days.
6.) You don't have to buy a built-in monitor with it, and an external monitor can last through 2 or 3 desktop computers.
Apple's extended foray into the iMac as their main 'desktop' line showed most desktop Mac users were willing to compromise on performance in favor of compactness with very limited expandability and the requirement to buy a built-in (albeit high quality) monitor every time you buy a new one. When you think about it, the iMac proved even desktop Mac users were essentially willing to accept what amounted to a notebook Mac on a stand that wasn't portable.
So Apple's notebooks have serious power, quiet function and connect to expansion resources (e.g. Thunderbolt drives) the same way a Mini or Studio does.
So in a nutshell, if Apple chooses to make 'desktops' that lack most of the advantages of desktops (Mini, Studio) or are so nightmarishly expensive they're priced out of the market for most home users (the Mac Pro), then yes, Mac notebooks will dominate.
But I'm not convinced the spread is that extreme. Even so, when the M3 chips came out, they loaded up the notebook line, and months later, we're still waiting for Mac Mini and Studio options with the M3.
1.) More powerful processors - for heavier duty work. Apple's focus on efficiency is nice, but one wonders if they were willing to offer noisy, higher power options, what could be done.
2.) Larger, more powerful non-integrated GPUs for gaming. Apple's pretty much stuck us with integrated GPUs.
3.) More RAM slots for 3rd party sourced memory expansion; cheaper to add, and the system could hold a lot. Now Apple as system-on-a-chip, the RAM you buy it with is all you'll get, and maxing RAM is...heh, not all that affordable with Apple's pricing.
4.) At least a few drive bays for internal expansion so SSDs, for example, can run at maximum speed without needing external drive housings. The Mac Pro is way too expensive for most home users; the Studio and Mini appear designed to avoid giving us that option.
5.) More internal space and airflow for better odds at longevity and durability. I hear many Mac notebooks really go the distance these days.
6.) You don't have to buy a built-in monitor with it, and an external monitor can last through 2 or 3 desktop computers.
Apple's extended foray into the iMac as their main 'desktop' line showed most desktop Mac users were willing to compromise on performance in favor of compactness with very limited expandability and the requirement to buy a built-in (albeit high quality) monitor every time you buy a new one. When you think about it, the iMac proved even desktop Mac users were essentially willing to accept what amounted to a notebook Mac on a stand that wasn't portable.
So Apple's notebooks have serious power, quiet function and connect to expansion resources (e.g. Thunderbolt drives) the same way a Mini or Studio does.
So in a nutshell, if Apple chooses to make 'desktops' that lack most of the advantages of desktops (Mini, Studio) or are so nightmarishly expensive they're priced out of the market for most home users (the Mac Pro), then yes, Mac notebooks will dominate.
But I'm not convinced the spread is that extreme. Even so, when the M3 chips came out, they loaded up the notebook line, and months later, we're still waiting for Mac Mini and Studio options with the M3.
boswald
macrumors 68040
Thank you so much for the detailed reply. I will save up for an Air. The reason why is the lower price point compared to the Pro and portability to edit pictures wherever I want. I don’t have access to a good camera yet, so I have to rely on my iPhone. I definitely will watch some introductory photography videos, that’s for sure. Again, thank you.
ThrawnTHX
macrumors member
I love my m2 pro mini, nonetheless I suspect they aren’t selling well because these desktops have room for non-soldered RAM but Apple chooses to charge ungodly amounts for upgrades instead of giving options. There’s just no advantage to the buyer.
MacCheetah3
macrumors 68040
I will agree that a storage expansion slot would be a reasonable nice-to-have. Honestly, for me, even if that would be Apple just allowing the purchase of the NAND module/daughter cards used in the Mac Studio — basically, the functionality the modules were assumed/hoped to allow when they were discovered..
For much of your remaining list, I’ll defer to this:
By the way, his SFF PC build is impressive.
If you have an iPhone 12 Pro or later Pro model:
About Apple ProRAW - Apple Support
On iPhone 12 Pro and later Pro models with iOS 14.3 or later, you can take photos in Apple ProRAW. ProRAW gives you greater creative control when editing photos.
I’ve found the following channel to be very helpful regarding photography terms, mechanics, tips, etc:
Technically the mini was literally first in line for MacOS on Apple Silicon 🙂
throAU
macrumors G4
Just on the 1% number.
1% of Apple's Mac sales is still freaking massive compared to any other individual model of PC on the market. Just for context.
1% of Apple's Mac sales is still freaking massive compared to any other individual model of PC on the market. Just for context.