Mac Mini is now $800....

blairh

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Dec 11, 2007
3,743
1,244
Just curious how you all feel about the Mac Mini now. My first two Macs were Mini's. I bought both at different times. Paid less than $500 each for both of them new. Once in 2008. The other in 2014. My needs were pretty basic computer-wise and they lasted me for a long time. In fact I sold my last Mini only because I wanted a 5K screen.

I think Apple is making a mistake by making the price of Mac entry so high now. I don't think I would have gotten a Mac in 2008 after a lifetime as a Windows user if it were so expensive back then. Also the Mini now comes with just 128 GB of storage. I realize it's an SSD but that seems awfully small for a desktop machine. Also I know of the cloud and external storage but having a large HD on your desktop is the ideal scenario. (If you need the space.)

Anyways I'm just curious what you all think. And before you say 'well it's such a better computer at $800 dollars now' I get that. I just think you are losing sales by having it so expensive now versus the past. Also keep in mind the halo effect is very real. My happiness with the Mini has led to a ton of money spent on Apple products ever since.
 

KrisLord

macrumors 68000
Sep 12, 2008
1,536
1,023
Northumberland, UK
I don’t have a problem with the price, but think 256GB should be default at the $800/£800 price point.

This model is considerably better than the 2014 model which had an underpowered PC and soldered RAM. So you can see the price point change.
 

LeeW

macrumors 6502a
Feb 5, 2017
831
1,134
Glasgow, Scotland
At $500 in 2018 from Apple you would have got another Mac Mini with a spinning rust drive and a dual core mobile processor. Instead of the 50 or so threads complaining about the $800 price you would be complaining that it's not worth the money and everyone would be saying "I would have paid more than $500 for a better spec".

It's a no win with every release. There will be another 50 threads complaining about the price instead of searching for all the other similar threads that already discussed it to death.

Not saying anyone is wrong in thinking it's more expensive than it needs to be but we all know this is the way of it and the next one will be more expensive again just like all their devices.

Accept it or walk away from it, nothing is going to change, not in the next few years anyway.
 

revmacian

macrumors 6502a
Oct 20, 2018
752
676
USA
Just curious how you all feel about the Mac Mini now. My first two Macs were Mini's. I bought both at different times. Paid less than $500 each for both of them new. Once in 2008. The other in 2014. My needs were pretty basic computer-wise and they lasted me for a long time. In fact I sold my last Mini only because I wanted a 5K screen.

I think Apple is making a mistake by making the price of Mac entry so high now. I don't think I would have gotten a Mac in 2008 after a lifetime as a Windows user if it were so expensive back then. Also the Mini now comes with just 128 GB of storage. I realize it's an SSD but that seems awfully small for a desktop machine. Also I know of the cloud and external storage but having a large HD on your desktop is the ideal scenario. (If you need the space.)

Anyways I'm just curious what you all think. And before you say 'well it's such a better computer at $800 dollars now' I get that. I just think you are losing sales by having it so expensive now versus the past. Also keep in mind the halo effect is very real. My happiness with the Mini has led to a ton of money spent on Apple products ever since.
If you think about just the device, then you may have a point. However, there are many other things that some folks fail to factor in before being concerned about the price:

iCloud services - Mail, Calendar, Reminders, Notes, Photos, etc.. These services require servers and people to design/maintain the hardware and back-end software. This costs money.

The various operating systems (macOS, iOS, watchOS, tvOS, etc.) - We get these operating systems for free, along with push updates, but many people fail to consider that there are entire teams involved in designing and maintaining these operating systems. This costs money.

Logistics, fabrication and storage facilities, vehicles for transportation, customer support, utilities (electricity, refuse, etc.), loss management (bad product batches, theft, etc.). This costs money.

Software/media management and distribution (iTunes, App Stores, etc.) - Someone has to manage and maintain these things. This costs money.

Now, consider that Apple doesn't include advertisements in their operating system code and the customer isn't the product. Would you rather Apple include advertisements in their devices and collect and sell all of your personal information to offset lower product prices?

If Apple created and sold the system and then washed their hands of the matter, then.. yes.. I would complain about the prices of Apple products. However, this is not the case so I give Apple the benefit of the doubt.

You're not just getting a device, you're also getting a lot of back-end services.
 

StellarVixen

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2018
1,957
3,179
Earth
How do I feel? Same as when it was announced on October 30th.

There is nothing to lament over. It is what it is. If it is too much for you, you can look elsewhere.

Seriously, I do not understand this whining. If I can pay $500 for Mini, I will find a way to pay $800.

And if in the future comes the point that price gets so much out of my range, I will look elsewhere.

Where were you all these days to talk about price? It will soon be one month since Mini was announced.
 
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xylitol

macrumors 6502
Nov 2, 2013
270
45
Finland
1) If your "needs are pretty basic computer-wise", Apple wants to sell you an iPad.
2) 500 dollars in 2008 equals to almost 600 dollars in 2018.
3) Windows got better and OS X/MacOS worse, so there aren't many potential switchers anymore. And switchers on budget can always buy used Macs.
 

blairh

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Dec 11, 2007
3,743
1,244
If you think about just the device, then you may have a point. However, there are many other things that some folks fail to factor in before being concerned about the price:

iCloud services - Mail, Calendar, Reminders, Notes, Photos, etc.. These services require servers and people to design/maintain the hardware and back-end software. This costs money.

The various operating systems (macOS, iOS, watchOS, tvOS, etc.) - We get these operating systems for free, along with push updates, but many people fail to consider that there are entire teams involved in designing and maintaining these operating systems. This costs money.

Logistics, fabrication and storage facilities, vehicles for transportation, customer support, utilities (electricity, refuse, etc.), loss management (bad product batches, theft, etc.). This costs money.

Software/media management and distribution (iTunes, App Stores, etc.) - Someone has to manage and maintain these things. This costs money.

Now, consider that Apple doesn't include advertisements in their operating system code and the customer isn't the product. Would you rather Apple include advertisements in their devices and collect and sell all of your personal information to offset lower product prices?

If Apple created and sold the system and then washed their hands of the matter, then.. yes.. I would complain about the prices of Apple products. However, this is not the case so I give Apple the benefit of the doubt.

You're not just getting a device, you're also getting a lot of back-end services.
Okay. But the Mini was $500 retail for many years. Why $800 now?
 

LeeW

macrumors 6502a
Feb 5, 2017
831
1,134
Glasgow, Scotland
ou're not just getting a device, you're also getting a lot of back-end services.
Something that is more often overlooked is retail. Those stores are not cheap, but you got to pay for them when you buy even if you don't use them. They offer a lot of free courses and services in store, every time I go in there is something on.

In an age when every tech company has left the high street they are opening more and more stores.

It's all part of what Apple is. But it adds to the cost for everyone.
 
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blairh

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Dec 11, 2007
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1) If your "needs are pretty basic computer-wise", Apple wants to sell you an iPad.
2) 500 dollars in 2008 equals to almost 600 dollars in 2018.
3) Windows got better and OS X/MacOS worse, so there aren't many potential switchers anymore. And switchers on budget can always buy used Macs.
The Mini was $500 for the last 3 years. Not just in 2008.

The iPad is not a desktop computer. Two very different machines. No monitor usage with an iPad.

Yes, there are still potential switchers. There always will be. And a lot of people don't want to buy a used computer.
 

revmacian

macrumors 6502a
Oct 20, 2018
752
676
USA
Okay. But the Mini was $500 retail for many years. Why $800 now?
Much better specs with the new machines compared with the earlier models. I have a Late 2014 Mac mini and it's a bit slow when opening apps and web pages - and I have never installed third-party items. I can't wait to buy the new Mac mini and enjoy a faster experience.
 
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blairh

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Dec 11, 2007
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At $500 in 2018 from Apple you would have got another Mac Mini with a spinning rust drive and a dual core mobile processor. Instead of the 50 or so threads complaining about the $800 price you would be complaining that it's not worth the money and everyone would be saying "I would have paid more than $500 for a better spec".

It's a no win with every release. There will be another 50 threads complaining about the price instead of searching for all the other similar threads that already discussed it to death.

Not saying anyone is wrong in thinking it's more expensive than it needs to be but we all know this is the way of it and the next one will be more expensive again just like all their devices.

Accept it or walk away from it, nothing is going to change, not in the next few years anyway.
But this is something new. It's not as if the Mini has been going up in price over the years. It has been an affordable machine for a long time. A $300 price increase this year changes the machine entirely. The Mini was an affordable Mac and now it's a pro machine. I think it's a normal thing to discuss.
 
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revmacian

macrumors 6502a
Oct 20, 2018
752
676
USA
Something that is more often overlooked is retail. Those stores are not cheap, but you got to pay for them when you buy even if you don't use them. They offer a lot of free courses and services in store, every time I go in there is something on.

In an age when every tech company has left the high street they are opening more and more stores.

It's all part of what Apple is. But it adds to the cost for everyone.
Yes, very good point. Thank you.
 
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blairh

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Dec 11, 2007
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Much better specs with the new machines compared with the earlier models. I have a Late 2014 Mac mini and it's a bit slow when opening apps and web pages - and I have never installed third-party items. I can't wait to buy the new Mac mini and enjoy a faster experience.
But don't you think Apple could have made a better Mini, maybe a fusion drive, and not had it start so high? It's an enormous price increase.
[doublepost=1542493412][/doublepost]
That particular computer had one big problem from a switching point of view: nobody recommended it.
I mean honestly the base model Mini's have been just fine for basic usage. For $500 they were fine.
[doublepost=1542493645][/doublepost]
Something that is more often overlooked is retail. Those stores are not cheap, but you got to pay for them when you buy even if you don't use them. They offer a lot of free courses and services in store, every time I go in there is something on.

In an age when every tech company has left the high street they are opening more and more stores.

It's all part of what Apple is. But it adds to the cost for everyone.
I'm not buying this. Wanting higher profit margins or dealing with tariffs are two arguments. To say they have to increase costs to cover the free classes offered is a random guess. I could also push back and say well maybe offer less free classes so your customers are more willing to make purchases. The MBA and iPad Pro are now more expensive than ever too. It's a risky move.
[doublepost=1542493965][/doublepost]
How do I feel? Same as when it was announced on October 30th.

There is nothing to lament over. It is what it is. If it is too much for you, you can look elsewhere.

Seriously, I do not understand this whining. If I can pay $500 for Mini, I will find a way to pay $800.

And if in the future comes the point that price gets so much out of my range, I will look elsewhere.

Where were you all these days to talk about price? It will soon be one month since Mini was announced.
Go look at my post history. I brought this up as soon as it was announced. I'm also less invested in the Mini because I sold mine and got an iMac earlier this year. If I had been still waiting for a Mini I'd be pretty damn outraged post-keynote.

Great, it's perfectly fine for you. That's not my point. The Mini has transformed into an entirely different machine now and with that I promise you will lose customers who are not going to pay said premium now.
 

revmacian

macrumors 6502a
Oct 20, 2018
752
676
USA
But don't you think Apple could have made a better Mini, maybe a fusion drive, and not had it start so high? It's an enormous price increase.
I don't know what Apple designers are thinking. I don't know what costs they incur in their research and development. I don't know what, if any, agreements they are required to keep with other vendors or manufacturers. I don't know their roadmap. There is quite a bit to consider with a company of that size making the number and variety of products Apple makes.

I don't have all of the facts, so I choose to give them the benefit of the doubt. I grew up in the 1970's and 1980's.. I'm just grateful to have Apple gear.

I do know that it will take me longer to save up for the new Mac mini, but given the specs of the new model.. I think the machine will be cherished even more once I own it.
 
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theluggage

macrumors 601
Jul 29, 2011
4,032
2,714
1) If your "needs are pretty basic computer-wise", Apple wants to sell you an iPad.
In 2012, the entry Mac Mini was $500, and the entry iPad (3rd gen, so it wasn't bleeding edge) was also $500.

In 2018, the entry Mac Mini is $800, but the entry iPad (non-pro) is $329. Even though that's the non-pro iPad, it out-performs the 2012 model and has twice the storage. There's now a $800 iPad (pro) which for $200 over the 2012 price gives you a bigger, better screen, 4x the storage 4x the RAM and a processor/GPU combo that, we're told, gives the 15" MBP a run for its money (so would probably beat the i3 Mini).

The $800 Mini, however - well, its got a quad core processor, but Apple have had to "downgrade" to an i3 consumer-grade CPU and the lowest spec integrated GPU because Intel doesn't make a desktop 8th-gen i5 with only 4 cores. The only really "pro" thing about it is the extra pair of TB3 ports.

So yes, Apple does want you to buy an iPad and its very, very obvious which product is getting the love.

2) 500 dollars in 2008 equals to almost 600 dollars in 2018.
But inflation has never affected computers before. The 1998 iMac started at $1299 (1998 dollars) - the 2017 4k iMac starts at $1299 (2018 dollars) and is Science Fiction in comparison.

Inflation is happening now because the market is saturated - everybody who needs a computer has one and development has slowed so they're not woefully obsolete after 2 years.. Its not just Apple that are being affected, other makers are adding more premium machines to their range to keep up their margins in the face of falling sales - Apple's problem is that they were already at premium prices - but Wall Street wants to see continuous percentage growth - the stock market doesn't do sustainability - it has periodic crash... sorry, "re-evaluations" to try and hide the fact that you can't have endless growth in a closed system.

3) Windows got better and OS X/MacOS worse
Very true.
However, although Windows 10 now has a really solid underlying system, MS have recently had some spectacular cock-ups with their current (insane) update policy, quality control and obscene stuff like trying to add advertising. Apple could really be making hay at the moment.
 

LeeW

macrumors 6502a
Feb 5, 2017
831
1,134
Glasgow, Scotland
To say they have to increase costs to cover the free classes offered is a random guess.
You're cherry picking from my comment, classes was an element, the real point was cost of the retail stores. We all pay in some way towards them even if you never visit one, but many do put them to good use.

The Mini has transformed into an entirely different machine now and with that I promise you will lose customers who are not going to pay said premium now.
Transformed for the better, better than it was at least. There will be no more/less people willing to pay the premium for this mac in relation to the previous version.

All your observations are no different in 2018 to the posts in 2014 when the previous MM was released. Too expensive, etc...
 

mr.steevo

macrumors 65816
Jul 21, 2004
1,291
731
At $500 in 2018 from Apple you would have got another Mac Mini with a spinning rust drive and a dual core mobile processor. Instead of the 50 or so threads complaining about the $800 price you would be complaining that it's not worth the money and everyone would be saying "I would have paid more than $500 for a better spec".

It's a no win with every release. There will be another 50 threads complaining about the price instead of searching for all the other similar threads that already discussed it to death.

Not saying anyone is wrong in thinking it's more expensive than it needs to be but we all know this is the way of it and the next one will be more expensive again just like all their devices.

Accept it or walk away from it, nothing is going to change, not in the next few years anyway.

This is true.

If I truly wanted to change the MacRumors universe I would spend time combing though previous threads of people NOT recommending the $499 USD Mini and spending extra for the $800 USD Mini that still had a dual core and spinning hard drive.

Personally I have no issue with a 128GB SSD and a couple of external drives for my stuff and the backup. It's a desktop computer and I just have the two 2.5 inch drives sitting on the desk.
At this point I have a 2012 Mini with a 256GB SDD internal and I've got 200GB of free space with the rest on external 2.5 drives.

Meh.
 

redheeler

macrumors 604
Oct 17, 2014
7,395
6,962
In 2012, the $799 Mac mini featured the same CPU performance as the base 15" Retina MacBook Pro. The 2018 $799 Mac mini, by contrast, does considerably worse in multi-core compared to the base 15" Retina MacBook Pro.

I don't have a problem with this price point as the new starting price, the focus of the Mac mini has changed as it's no longer the primary entry point into the Apple ecosystem. However, only getting a Core i3 is disappointing, and 128 GB is a bit too small out of the box as well.
 

blairh

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Dec 11, 2007
3,743
1,244
I don't know what Apple designers are thinking. I don't know what costs they incur in their research and development. I don't know what, if any, agreements they are required to keep with other vendors or manufacturers. I don't know their roadmap. There is quite a bit to consider with a company of that size making the number and variety of products Apple makes.

I don't have all of the facts, so I choose to give them the benefit of the doubt. I grew up in the 1970's and 1980's.. I'm just grateful to have Apple gear.

I do know that it will take me longer to save up for the new Mac mini, but given the specs of the new model.. I think the machine will be cherished even more once I own it.
What model are you getting? I ask because I'm curious if 128 GB will be enough for some people.
 

revmacian

macrumors 6502a
Oct 20, 2018
752
676
USA
In 2012, the $799 Mac mini featured the same CPU performance as the base 15" Retina MacBook Pro. The 2018 $799 Mac mini, by contrast, does considerably worse in multi-core compared to the base 15" Retina MacBook Pro.

I don't have a problem with this price point as the new new starting price, the focus of the Mac mini has changed as it's no longer the primary entry point into the Apple ecosystem. However, only getting a Core i3 is disappointing, and 128 GB is a bit too small out of the box as well.
That's a very good point. The Mac mini was seen as the entry point for new Apple customers. These days I would imagine the entry point honor has moved to one of the iPhone or iPad models - given that customers can get these devices with a lower down payment from their mobile carriers.