Mac Mini is now $800....

[pl1984]

Agreed, the person I was responding to was making the point it's a paperweight if the SSD or Ram fails, that's the case for more than less devices these days, socketed components will become less and less of a 'feature' in the future in all but what I would consider true desktop machines, which I don't consider the MM to be.

Why not? It doesn't contain a display, keyboard, battery, and is not designed to be used away from a desktop.

 

[kazmac]

Agreed with 256gb storage for the base price point. I wish there was a better iGPU option available for build to order, but there isn’t.

I am glad the base is working for some folks here. I think it is a terrific upgrade except for these two things.

 

[LeeW]

Why not? It doesn't contain a display, keyboard, battery, and is not designed to be used away from a desktop.

Not a true desktop in that it limits the configuration at time of purchase whether it sits on my desk or not. Whereas my self build PC is whatever I choose it to be and has no such constraints. The MM could be a portable device. Just my view.

 

[blairh]

What they have had for the last 4 years is a Mac Mini that came in various configurations, that does not tell us the base configuration was selling in sufficient numbers to justify its existence in 2018.

The trashcan has been in existence for 5 years now, struggling to believe it's selling in any significant numbers in 2018. Existing only because there is nothing to replace it yet and they have a stock pile to get through.

Anyway, circular thread now, always coming back to the same point that is never going to result in a $500 MM being available for sale.

Trashcan was a mistake acknowledged by Apple to the point they had to tell us years in advance they are making a new one.

Mini was not. Why Apple decided to boot the lower starting price is something only they truly know. Whether or not we will ever see a cheaper Mini one day is entirely unknown. Perhaps they get enough push back from consumers and revert course. We don't know anything about the future. All we know now is that the days of the affordable Mac, for now, are officially over. And IMO that's a damn shame and mistake on their part.

 

[OLDGUYWITHAHIFI]

Most consumers wanting to switch from Windows to a Mac, are notebook users. The number of people (except gamers) who are using desktops is small and dwindling.

A lot of people buying the Mac Mini were iOS developers who just needed the cheapest Mac possible to run Xcode without a hassle. They are now forced to pay at least $800. Half of new Mac users are from China, and I would not be surprised if many of these are iOS developers.

Another factor worth considering, is that having a cheap Mac, also steals sales from more expensive Macs. If the Mac Mini is a great and cheap Mac, why would anyone spend a lot of money on iMacs, iMac Pros and Mac Pros?
[doublepost=1542552466][/doublepost]

Why do the base model has to fit a majority? Apple offers different configuration and different models for this very reason.

Lots of people with a professional line of work would not store anything important locally, or only locally, because it is a risk in case of failure or theft, or because of security.

In addition, having services like iCloud Photo Library and Apple Music, reduces the need for local storage for a lot of users.

Some people like to have everything stored on their main computer but there are other ways to do it. For a lot of them 128Gb is enough. Also the future direction seems to me more and more cloud, so I would think that the need for local storage will not increase for a lot of people in the next 5 years.

That's one perspective. I feel the opposite. Where are you getting your information about desktop users shrinking? Are you looking strictly at sales numbers?

As security becomes more and more of an issue, I would think people would want to store MORE files locally. I have used iCloud and OneDrive. Both work, but both have failed me as well and files have disappeared.

For me the safest route is to have the files I use locally, and backed up on an external drive or home NAS.

If Apple's strategy is to move people towards cloud storage thats disappointing. If a person looks at desktop sales in general almost no one sells a desktop with 128gb of NON-UPGRADABLE storage, especially with a starting price of $800. I agree an entry level model will fit many peoples needs, but if you are comparing a hobbyist's needs to a pro user as justification, it really doesn't tell the whole story.

For example, I consider myself a professional user and will pay for the specs I need, but I do not need the storage my wife does. My wife is a casual user and hobbyist but I am forced to pay more for storage for what I consider everyday and typical use. She loves to take pictures and store them on her computer. She knows very little about the workings of an OS. She just wants it to work.

We have 1000's of photos of the grandkids, pets, and vacations. Again she is not a power user, but as a casual user she requires storage. She used to fill up her 16gb iPhone all the time and I would have to download photos to her laptop to clear space.

Apple offering 16gb of base storage on a phone or 128gb of storage on the Mac Mini is just Apple being Apple and forcing us to pay more to upgrade to what is considered usable and standard.

I say the base mini is fairly priced at $800, but should have included 256gb of storage as base.
[doublepost=1542564168][/doublepost]

Most consumers wanting to switch from Windows to a Mac, are notebook users. The number of people (except gamers) who are using desktops is small and dwindling.

A lot of people buying the Mac Mini were iOS developers who just needed the cheapest Mac possible to run Xcode without a hassle. They are now forced to pay at least $800. Half of new Mac users are from China, and I would not be surprised if many of these are iOS developers.

Another factor worth considering, is that having a cheap Mac, also steals sales from more expensive Macs. If the Mac Mini is a great and cheap Mac, why would anyone spend a lot of money on iMacs, iMac Pros and Mac Pros?
[doublepost=1542552466][/doublepost]

Why do the base model has to fit a majority? Apple offers different configuration and different models for this very reason.

Lots of people with a professional line of work would not store anything important locally, or only locally, because it is a risk in case of failure or theft, or because of security.

In addition, having services like iCloud Photo Library and Apple Music, reduces the need for local storage for a lot of users.

Some people like to have everything stored on their main computer but there are other ways to do it. For a lot of them 128Gb is enough. Also the future direction seems to me more and more cloud, so I would think that the need for local storage will not increase for a lot of people in the next 5 years.

So keeping data on a home computer that may get stolen if your house is broken into is more risky than keeping data in the cloud at an unknown location, that could be hacked, viewed, lost, or stolen?

I'd like to see some statistics on that.

 

[pl1984]

Not a true desktop in that it limits the configuration at time of purchase whether it sits on my desk or not. Whereas my self build PC is whatever I choose it to be and has no such constraints. The MM could be a portable device. Just my view.

Only because Apple built it that way. Do you consider the 2012 model to be a desktop?

Having said that I think we're in alignment regarding having a truly expandable desktop.
[doublepost=1542564745][/doublepost]

Trashcan was a mistake acknowledged by Apple to the point they had to tell us years in advance they are making a new one.

Mini was not. Why Apple decided to boot the lower starting price is something only they truly know. Whether or not we will ever see a cheaper Mini one day is entirely unknown. Perhaps they get enough push back from consumers and revert course. We don't know anything about the future. All we know now is that the days of the affordable Mac, for now, are officially over. And IMO that's a damn shame and mistake on their part.

Because they can. Despite price increases people continue to buy Apple products. Even those who complain about the price.

 

[LeeW]

Only because Apple built it that way. Do you consider the 2012 model to be a desktop?

Like I said, I consider a true desktop to be one that has no limitations, I can replace any part if the need arises. That's my view only.

 

[macdragonfl]

Why would anyone spend more than $2K when with that money one can buy say an iMac with a discrete GPU and better overall specs? To buy a Mac mini I would have to buy a keyboard, trackpad/mouse and monitor. I guess I will pass this one. A lower price point at about $500 would make much more sense. Can anyone justify the bump in price? Sorry for the rant...

it's not a bump in price. They no longer make a stripped down base model. The base model 2018 now runs circles around the mid price 2014. The new internals with desktop processors and their cooling requirements were not designed for spinner drives. They also sell more mid and high end mini's than base models anyway. The high end 2014 model could not be upgraded and slower performing than a high end 2012. Many 2012 high end mini users wanted to upgrade and would not. The 2018 seem to address that group which is more profitable for Apple. What Apple could have done is still produce the 2014 base model and would have if the demand and profit was high enough. Most people that buy have keyboards and mice or trackpad. And they also already have a monitor. They just want the box which is much less expensive than an iMac. If you have to buy everything the iMac the better buy.

 

[OLDGUYWITHAHIFI]

It’s not lazy nor pointless. I already explained that the price point is great for what you get and that the storage size is perfectly fine for many people.

You keep complaining as if you know more than all the people who are actually buying the product, you do not. Your complaints are unwarranted, Apple did not make a mistake, they did exactly what they should have. You are wrong, dead wrong.
[doublepost=1542522980][/doublepost]
Again with this same ignorance.

I have what you stated, the OS, some programs, and 15 years worth of pictures which is about 15 gigs. With all of those pictures on the computer it equals 48gigs, leaving 73 free.

I use my computer for both personal and business. 128GB is plenty for a huge amount of people. If you are going to be saving so many movies or songs on a desktop computer, simply opt for a larger drive. But there is no reason why we should have to pay for one when we don’t need or want it.
[doublepost=1542523205][/doublepost]
I paid $2,500 for my first Apple computer around 32 years ago, $800 today for what you get in the new Mini is absolutely awesome.

And a digital watch in the 1970's was $2,100. You paid to be original and to have new tech. Macs back in the day were boutique. You paid for the privilege. Nowadays a computer with the Mini's specs are common and can be had for less. Your $2,500 Mac was not common. It's all relative.

 

[FrontierForever]

Apple doesn't want the hoi-polloi stinking up the place:

My personal take is that Apple is at a dangerous crossroads right now as it attempts, once again, to reconcile its elitist leanings with its mass-market potential. The company has built the fanciest of shops in the highest-end locations and really wants premium customers. Yet its implicit mission statement has been to simplify and democratize technology for everyone, not just wealthy shoppers.

Therein lies the conflict. Apple has created some of the most desirable products in the world at a variety of price points, and it markets itself as a provider of educational solutions for cash-strapped students and schools, affordable games for kids and adults, and music for everyone. On the other hand, it keeps pricing itself out of gigantic developing markets, selling aging or downright old products at premiums over competitors, and releasing new products that are more expensive than their predecessors. Does Apple want to be an affordable luxury brand, or just a luxury brand?

At some point, Apple will have made enough money that making more shouldn’t be a primary or even secondary motivator — like billionaires who turn to philanthropy, hitting trillionaire status would have been that moment for most companies. If Apple has that moment of realization, it should resolve its conflict in favor of public good rather than pure profits. That means getting its great products into as many hands as possible, even if that means going “downmarket,” with the resultant need for creative solutions to reduce store overcrowding.

https://venturebeat.com/2018/11/23/...tv-dongles-like-chromecast-and-fire-tv-stick/

 

[Cashmonee]

I think it may be interesting to share my recent experience with deciding on whether to get a new Mac.

I currently have a mid-2010 iMac and a 2013 MacBook Pro that I use as my main machines. I was set to get a mini and was looking to go with an i7/512/16 build that would have ran me $1589 on the EDU store. I went back and forth with the idea and even thought of getting iMac instead. In the end, I chose not to purchase a new Mac and instead chose to use a computer I built over the summer with my son. It has an i3-8100, 500 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, and a 8 GB Radeon RX580. That machine cost me around $700 to build, and was originally intended as a just slightly better than budget gaming PC. However, when looking at the cost to replace one of my older Macs, I just could not justify Apple's premium anymore. Spec'ing a mini to a similar configuration would run me $1139 for the mini plus another $400-$500 for an eGPU. That is double the cost of my self-built machine. Apple's prices are now bordering on the ridiculous. Hell, there was a sale for an HP Omen this week that had an i7 with 16 GB RAM and an RTX 2080 for $1499.

I love macOS, and I have always been willing to pay a premium for it, but it has now gotten to the point where I simply cannot justify the cost. It is true that my home built PC has no warranty, is not silent like a mini, the SSD is slower, there isn't the connectivity, and of course no macOS. However, I could buy prebuilt for similar cost to my PC to get a warranty, I can add an SSD that is as fast or close enough, I can add connectivity if I want to, and all of this would still put me way under Apple's cost. It is true that finding a machine like the mini or iMac is difficult if not impossible, but the premium on those machines is no longer reasonable for what you get. Too many compromises to have the form factor. As much as I wish to stay with macOS and Apple, it just is not a rational decision anymore.

I think this is a calculation that more and more people are making. Apple computer sales were down this year when the rest of the industry was up (the opposite had been true for years). iPhone sales are not looking so hot, and you have Apple enthusiast sites where a significant portion of the people are openly questioning whether they are going to continue buying Apple products. It is possible that Apple have taken their love of form over function and healthy profits too far.

Something that is more often overlooked is retail. Those stores are not cheap, but you got to pay for them when you buy even if you don't use them. They offer a lot of free courses and services in store, every time I go in there is something on.

In an age when every tech company has left the high street they are opening more and more stores.

It's all part of what Apple is. But it adds to the cost for everyone.

Honestly, this is ridiculous and a narrative they tried pushing at the last keynote. Apple Stores have historically generated the most revenue per square foot in retail, famously topping Tiffany's. They do not need subsidizing from users. It is simply Apple trying to continue to push people to pay the increasingly exorbitant prices.

 

[LeeW]

Honestly, this is ridiculous

They do not need subsidizing from users.

Infrastructure costs come from the same place that every company gets them from, sales. So whatever spin you want to put on it, the cost of retail is significant, it's a cost we all pay whether using them or not, nothing ridiculous about it. The cost of retail is the very reason many others are exiting from it where they can. As I am sure you know, it is an escalating cost not a one off.

Of course if Apple had no retail that does not mean their prices would be cheaper. Beside that the cost of retail was only one of several points made earlier in the thread.

The day may (perhaps will) come when Apple consumers in enough numbers begin to turn their backs on the products to signal something needs to be done by them, maybe then it will force them to change direction, it's many years away though.

What is clear (in my view) from Apple in recent times is that they are no longer interested in consumers (if they ever were) who are looking for value in whatever perceived form that is, something cheap or a deal before buying. Black Friday shows that Apple offer you an opportunity to make one purchase and save on another, they leave other outlets to sell cheaper which tells a story.

Everyone has a choice, you appear to had made yours and that is fine, I am still comfortable and reasonably happy sticking with Apple.

 

[Cashmonee]

Infrastructure costs come from the same place that every company gets them from, sales. So whatever spin you want to put on it, the cost of retail is significant, it's a cost we all pay whether using them or not, nothing ridiculous about it. The cost of retail is the very reason many others are exiting from it where they can. As I am sure you know, it is an escalating cost not a one off.

Of course if Apple had no retail that does not mean their prices would be cheaper. Beside that the cost of retail was only one of several points made earlier in the thread.

The day may (perhaps will) come when Apple consumers in enough numbers begin to turn their backs on the products to signal something needs to be done by them, maybe then it will force them to change direction, it's many years away though.

What is clear (in my view) from Apple in recent times is that they are no longer interested in consumers (if they ever were) who are looking for value in whatever perceived form that is, something cheap or a deal before buying. Black Friday shows that Apple offer you an opportunity to make one purchase and save on another, they leave other outlets to sell cheaper which tells a story.

Everyone has a choice, you appear to had made yours and that is fine, I am still comfortable and reasonably happy sticking with Apple.

I was just pointing out that every other successful retailer is able to shoulder the costs of retail without gouging customers. For Apple to spend an hour of a keynote telling you how great the retail experience is and that it makes their prices worth it seemed a bit like them telling you it's raining. It is insulting to see Apple raise prices 20% on average for old hardware while prices for computer components seem to be falling (save maybe RAM prices, though those seem to be showing some softness too).

I do agree that Apple will not tumble overnight. They have shrewdly brought in a massive number of customers over the last decade. Their lock-in strategy has been sound, and that will push people to stay with them longer than they normally would. However, the buzz around the company has turned negative for the first time in a long time, and I do not think their current trajectory of increasing prices while removing features and losing reliability will work for long. It will be interesting to see if their computer sales rebound and what ends up happening in the iOS space. No longer reporting units sold is not a promising sign.

And I agree everyone has a choice, and I have begrudgingly made mine. I was trying to show that we are entering a phase where Apple's most ardent supporters are now beginning to question the path the company has taken and some have gone so far as to begin to turn away from them. I find that an interesting data point. I mean, look at myself. A macrumors member for over 12 years, owner of an embarrassing amount of Apple products, and I had money in hand to purchase a Mac and a need to replace a Mac, and I chose not to.

**EDIT** I know you do not mean to insinuate anything here, but saying Apple is not interested in customers who want something cheap or a deal is saying that you are not getting value if you chose not to go with Apple. That did used to be true, but it no longer is. PCs are to the point where their reliability, features, and in some cases design and build quality meet or exceed Apple's. This is part of the reason Apple's prices are so out of whack. They no longer offer much of the benefits they used to because their build quality and features have taken a step back where PCs are moved forward.

 

[LeeW]

I was trying to show that we are entering a phase where Apple's most ardent supporters are now beginning to question the path the company has taken and some have gone so far as to begin to turn away from them.

A point that even someone like me who still largely supports and uses their devices considers.

I mean I just paid $2k for a new Mac Mini. My view is always on the life of the product when spending. I aim for 5 years, at $400 each year with all other aspects considered when looking at value for money, is it worth it for me? Given it's a 1/3 of what I spend on Starbucks latte each year then I can't really offer an argument that says it is not!

With macOS, handoff, gestures, airdrop, Mac specific software and many other reasons I have built myself into a corner, Apple's corner. To be fair to them they know what they are doing in that respect. I am not trapped in the Apple Ecosystem I just perform better in it. Whilst I could easily build a PC and switch off my Mac it would not be the best solution for me.

I have said many times on here that my own direction may change. In fact I do have a PC for some light gaming and I do go in and replicate what I do as a backup on Windows in case my Mac Mini dies I have an option.

I don't like it, much, but if forced I would make do. Windows has changed a lot, as a result I can do many more things on it than in years gone by. something that I can see happening in the future is that Microsoft continues to change for the better and it becomes a significantly more viable option for those of us more hardened to macOS.

As a final point, what locks most of us in is macOS, not the hardware. Apple would sell little hardware if the OS was available outside their devices, I know it, you know it and they know it. That one thing binds it all.
[doublepost=1543079726][/doublepost]

I know you do not mean to insinuate anything here, but saying Apple is not interested in customers who want something cheap or a deal is saying that you are not getting value if you chose not to go with Apple.

What I was referring to was the elitist view that Apple has developed and is getting worse.

Black Friday shows that Apple offer you an opportunity to make one purchase and save on another, they leave other outlets to sell cheaper which tells a story.

The story for me at least is saying if you want a discount on a single item, go somewhere else, they 'allow' others to discount for you, to buy directly from Apple you need to be the 'right customer'.

 

[OLDGUYWITHAHIFI]

A point that even someone like me who still largely supports and uses their devices considers.

I mean I just paid $2k for a new Mac Mini. My view is always on the life of the product when spending. I aim for 5 years, at $400 each year with all other aspects considered when looking at value for money, is it worth it for me? Given it's a 1/3 of what I spend on Starbucks latte each year then I can't really offer an argument that says it is not!

With macOS, handoff, gestures, airdrop, Mac specific software and many other reasons I have built myself into a corner, Apple's corner. To be fair to them they know what they are doing in that respect. I am not trapped in the Apple Ecosystem I just perform better in it. Whilst I could easily build a PC and switch off my Mac it would not be the best solution for me.

I have said many times on here that my own direction may change. In fact I do have a PC for some light gaming and I do go in and replicate what I do as a backup on Windows in case my Mac Mini dies I have an option.

I don't like it, much, but if forced I would make do. Windows has changed a lot, as a result I can do many more things on it than in years gone by. something that I can see happening in the future is that Microsoft continues to change for the better and it becomes a significantly more viable option for those of us more hardened to macOS.

As a final point, what locks most of us in is macOS, not the hardware. Apple would sell little hardware if the OS was available outside their devices, I know it, you know it and they know it. That one thing binds it all.

Why do feel Microsoft is not going to continue to change or evolve?

Are you expecting Microsoft to become more like Apple?

My personal experience is each OS has pluses and minuses. I have grown to like Windows 10 the more I use it for work. Personally I would like to see both OS's get to the point where they can coexist and share.

Currently, I like the Apple Eco system as much as I hate being locked into it.

 

[Cashmonee]

A point that even someone like me who still largely supports and uses their devices considers.

I mean I just paid $2k for a new Mac Mini. My view is always on the life of the product when spending. I aim for 5 years, at $400 each year with all other aspects considered when looking at value for money, is it worth it for me? Given it's a 1/3 of what I spend on Starbucks latte each year then I can't really offer an argument that says it is not!

With macOS, handoff, gestures, airdrop, Mac specific software and many other reasons I have built myself into a corner, Apple's corner. To be fair to them they know what they are doing in that respect. I am not trapped in the Apple Ecosystem I just perform better in it. Whilst I could easily build a PC and switch off my Mac it would not be the best solution for me.

I have said many times on here that my own direction may change. In fact I do have a PC for some light gaming and I do go in and replicate what I do as a backup on Windows in case my Mac Mini dies I have an option.

I don't like it, much, but if forced I would make do. Windows has changed a lot, as a result I can do many more things on it than in years gone by. something that I can see happening in the future is that Microsoft continues to change for the better and it becomes a significantly more viable option for those of us more hardened to macOS.

As a final point, what locks most of us in is macOS, not the hardware. Apple would sell little hardware if the OS was available outside their devices, I know it, you know it and they know it. That one thing binds it all.
[doublepost=1543079726][/doublepost]

What I was referring to was the elitist view that Apple has developed and is getting worse.



The story for me at least is saying if you want a discount on a single item, go somewhere else, they 'allow' others to discount for you, to buy directly from Apple you need to be the 'right customer'.

I agree with you completely. I myself am locked in to macOS and the Apple ecosystem. I use all of the features you mentioned to varying degrees. I guess I have found myself at the point where it is worth exploring alternatives and seeing how it goes. There are many apps and features that may be painful at first, but the extreme cost has tilted me toward finding other solutions for now. Maybe I will go down this road and find that it would be worth it to pay the premium.

As for the elitist attitude of Apple, I figured that was where you meant to go, and completely agree. The message I have seen is that you either pony up or buy old tech.

 

[LeeW]

Why do feel Microsoft is not going to continue to change or evolve?

For me at least Microsoft often take one step forward then two back (more than Apple). The change in leadership appears to have jump started change in recent years. WSL for one example, never saw that coming, Microsoft were only ever interested in stamping on Linux in the past now they have Linux distros in their store!

 

[OLDGUYWITHAHIFI]

I agree with you completely. I myself am locked in to macOS and the Apple ecosystem. I use all of the features you mentioned to varying degrees. I guess I have found myself at the point where it is worth exploring alternatives and seeing how it goes. There are many apps and features that may be painful at first, but the extreme cost has tilted me toward finding other solutions for now. Maybe I will go down this road and find that it would be worth it to pay the premium.

As for the elitist attitude of Apple, I figured that was where you meant to go, and completely agree. The message I have seen is that you either pony up or buy old tech.

You could apply that philosophy to Apple products or PC products. When I shop for Apple I notice that most of the items that are sold out at different retailers and online stores tend to be the entry level spec'd computers, most with a last generation processor. So "ponying up" for the latest elitist hardware is all relative to me. I could pony up for a PC laptop with a "current" generation processor, fast memory, and a large SSD, for the same price as a comparable Apple product with older tech.

Just look at the MacBook Air Apple is still selling on their site for $999. Shop around and let me know what you could buy in the PC world for the same money. Let's compare specs and "old tech".

 

[DeepIn2U]

If you think about just the device, then you may have a point. However, there are many other things that some folks fail to factor in before being concerned about the price:

iCloud services - Mail, Calendar, Reminders, Notes, Photos, etc.. These services require servers and people to design/maintain the hardware and back-end software. This costs money.

The various operating systems (macOS, iOS, watchOS, tvOS, etc.) - We get these operating systems for free, along with push updates, but many people fail to consider that there are entire teams involved in designing and maintaining these operating systems. This costs money.

Logistics, fabrication and storage facilities, vehicles for transportation, customer support, utilities (electricity, refuse, etc.), loss management (bad product batches, theft, etc.). This costs money.

Software/media management and distribution (iTunes, App Stores, etc.) - Someone has to manage and maintain these things. This costs money.

Now, consider that Apple doesn't include advertisements in their operating system code and the customer isn't the product. Would you rather Apple include advertisements in their devices and collect and sell all of your personal information to offset lower product prices?

If Apple created and sold the system and then washed their hands of the matter, then.. yes.. I would complain about the prices of Apple products. However, this is not the case so I give Apple the benefit of the doubt.

You're not just getting a device, you're also getting a lot of back-end services.

BRAVO!

Best way I've seen put Apple's mythos and why most of us choose their OS' products and services.

Expensive ... but they last; quality is something I'm seeing fail a LOT in competitors products lately:
Lenovo T480 out of 25 ordered by my manager at work, 2 came in with the keyboards not even setup properly ... like a tech lifted the KB for repairs and forgot to close the bottom edge. Look up how to lift the KB and you'll see just how easily it is to spot when not put back properly. These are ordered sealed from Lenovo ... with only 8GB more ram than standard and the RAM is inserted under the laptop not under the KB 😉 LOL.

Lenovo offers only extended warranty, drivers and garbage SW - like Intel's WiFI (which repeats what Windows 7/10 does natively) or their own monitoring software that on a corporate network behind firewall tries to communicate every minute to their servers causing a corporate computer to GRIND to a halt!
X1 Carbon 5th Generation high performing machine ends up like a Pentium 2 466Mhz desktop with 1GB RAM. Horrible.

Let's also not forget vendors like Lenovo was caught shipping Firmware [Lenovo Service Engine inside the UEFI] that held maleware!
Lenovo Superfish:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/lenovo_ftc_superfish_settlement/
https://www.esecurityplanet.com/malware/lenovo-computers-shipped-with-pre-installed-malware.html

Lenovo again Sept 2018: https://malwaretips.com/threads/lenovo-caught-pre-installing-spyware-on-its-laptops.86894/

Lenovo has once again been caught installing spyware on its laptops and workstations without the user's permission or knowledge.
This is not first time Lenovo has allegedly installed Spyware onto consumers PCs. Earlier this year, Lenovo was caught red-handed for selling laptops pre-installed with "Superfish malware" that opened up doors for hackers. And In August, Lenovo again got caught installing unwanted and "Non removable crapware" into part of the BIOS reserved for custom drivers.
Now this time, They forced a software program, called "Lenovo Customer Feedback Program 64" that operates daily on these systems and can be categorized as Spyware.

Lenovo Forums: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Security-Malware/bd-p/Security_Malware
[doublepost=1543083226][/doublepost]

People are going to complain regardless. I think it's impossible to push against the fact that the consumer benefitted from a $500 Mac. If you or others didn't like what it offered, that's fine. But I think Apple could have and should have offered a new Mini at this price point. They still sell that awful MBA for $1,000.

You do know about the global trade wars started from the US President and affects shipping from China (most of all manufacturers components are built and assembled there from Smartphones to computers to servers). Yes Apple gets an exemption from Imports to the USA but not from Exports from China. You're forgetting to take into account this cost.

So many are fixated on a cost from 8yrs ago because they want it.

The way I see it we ALL had 4yrs to make and save the money for a replacement Mac Mini - heck we could've bought Apple stock at $120 just under a year ago and made huge returns (price increases and compounded dividends) to have more than enough today. I did yet sold it before the stock hit $140 and kicking myself for doing so. I'm not complaining about the competitive price increase for what it really offers.

Forest for the trees; we need to see it.

 

[ixxx69]

Hey, people are free to complain about Apple pricing, but this notion that Apple is now out of whack on pricing is just revisionist memory.

Literally, EVERY SINGLE APPLE PRODUCT that gets released, a bunch of people complain about the prices. Every single product. Over and over and over again for over 30 years (I ponied up $3,000 in 1988 for a Mac SE with 1MB RAM/20MB HDD... the price was outrageous compared to a PC for half the price!!! 😉). From the original 1984 Mac, through the '80's, '90's. Every iMac, every PowerBook and PowerMac, every MacBook, MBP & MBA, every Mac mini, every Mac Pro, every iPod, iPhone, iPad, the Apple TV, the Apple Watch, Home Pod, every Apple accessory and dongle - every single one of them, people complain that Apple has gone too far on price and form over function and not giving them what they really want. And so it will continue until the end of time, LOL.

Even a product that briefly hits some magic number for a time being, like the $499 mini or the $999 MBA, then there are people who complain that the tech is too old or underperforming.

And people complaining on MacRumors tells us almost nothing about what's going on in the larger market. MacRumors is self-selecting and not representative of Apple's general market.

Apple has always been more expensive than the competition and always will be more expensive than the competition. And it's no more "out of whack" than it's ever been.

There have been times when I just didn't have the money to buy Apple products... that's how it goes sometimes. There have also been times where I haven't had the money to buy the car I want, or live in the house I want to live in, or go to the restaurants I'd like to go to.

(and for those that lack reading comprehension, that's not defending Apple pricing... just pointing out it's always been this way and it's not going to change, anymore than me pointing the obvious out is going stop the whining about Apple pricing 😉)

 

[LeeW]

Apple has always been more expensive than the competition and always will be more expensive than the competition. And it's no more "out of whack" than it's ever been.

People are well aware of that, everyone has their tipping point though, whether it be on price, spec or indeed lack of something.

Whilst I have always criticized the $499 Mac Min (very heavily) for being a waste of time and effort it was a reasonably popular item. Especially with those that could not afford more, perhaps even struggled to get that one. So to move it up from $499 to $799 is a significant stretch as an upgrade, an upgrade that is needed more than anywhere.

Sure, price rise, better spec and so on. But the component price for the upgraded components is cheaper today than those of 5 years ago when they were first launched.

It is what it is but that won't stop people feeling aggrieved that having supported Apple they are now being abandoned over price, that is, Apple doesn't want to offer anything below $799.

 

[ixxx69]

People are well aware of that, everyone has their tipping point though, whether it be on price, spec or indeed lack of something.

Whilst I have always criticized the $499 Mac Min (very heavily) for being a waste of time and effort it was a reasonably popular item. Especially with those that could not afford more, perhaps even struggled to get that one. So to move it up from $499 to $799 is a significant stretch as an upgrade, an upgrade that is needed more than anywhere.

Sure, price rise, better spec and so on. But the component price for the upgraded components is cheaper today than those of 5 years ago when they were first launched.

It is what it is but that won't stop people feeling aggrieved that having supported Apple they are now being abandoned over price, that is, Apple doesn't want to offer anything below $799.

Yes, people have always felt aggrieved... have always felt abandoned... hey, you can waste your time feeling that way too, that's your business. Just like I said, I can point out that it's always been that way, and it's not going to change anyone's mind... first reply to what I wrote is more rationalization about why you think it's different this time, when in reality, it is no different than the last hundred times.

Cheers!

 

[LeeW]

Well, I guess if you want to generalise it like that then everyone is entitled to their own view.

 

[Cashmonee]

Hey, people are free to complain about Apple pricing, but this notion that Apple is now out of whack on pricing is just revisionist memory.

Literally, EVERY SINGLE APPLE PRODUCT that gets released, a bunch of people complain about the prices. Every single product. Over and over and over again for over 30 years (I ponied up $3,000 in 1988 for a Mac SE with 1MB RAM/20MB HDD... the price was outrageous compared to a PC for half the price!!! 😉). From the original 1984 Mac, through the '80's, '90's. Every iMac, every PowerBook and PowerMac, every MacBook, MBP & MBA, every Mac mini, every Mac Pro, every iPod, iPhone, iPad, the Apple TV, the Apple Watch, Home Pod, every Apple accessory and dongle - every single one of them, people complain that Apple has gone too far on price and form over function and not giving them what they really want. And so it will continue until the end of time, LOL.

Even a product that briefly hits some magic number for a time being, like the $499 mini or the $999 MBA, then there are people who complain that the tech is too old or underperforming.

And people complaining on MacRumors tells us almost nothing about what's going on in the larger market. MacRumors is self-selecting and not representative of Apple's general market.

Apple has always been more expensive than the competition and always will be more expensive than the competition. And it's no more "out of whack" than it's ever been.

There have been times when I just didn't have the money to buy Apple products... that's how it goes sometimes. There have also been times where I haven't had the money to buy the car I want, or live in the house I want to live in, or go to the restaurants I'd like to go to.

(and for those that lack reading comprehension, that's not defending Apple pricing... just pointing out it's always been this way and it's not going to change, anymore than me pointing the obvious out is going stop the whining about Apple pricing 😉)

This is mostly true, but I disagree it is not worse now than in the past. The gap between a Windows PC and a Mac is getting pretty tiny while the price gap is increasing significantly. Macs no longer boast superior features or build quality. The customer service gap is not what it used to be. Apple have been removing features at a faster rate than before while build quality has gone down. All while raising prices.

You are right, the forums are not the only indicator, but they are one indicator and it indicates that there are more users that are reaching a tipping point than ever before. Other indicators are things like Mac sales being down while PC sales are going up (that has not happened since the switch to Intel), iPhone growth flat and possibly declining, losing the education market, etc. Apple has responded by no longer reporting unit sales and increasing prices to maintain and grow profits as unit sales decline. That will work for now, but sooner or later you will hit a ceiling on price. I think we are nearing it.

 

[Partron22]

Paid less than $500 each for both of them new. Once in 2008.

Your 2008 $500 should be $587 in 2018.
Inflation Calculator
So Apple's upped the price about $210 beyond inflation.
That seems kinda steep to me given that they only supply a 128GB SSD.
All but the lightest users will need to buy more drives.