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reallynotnick

macrumors 65816
Oct 21, 2005
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CE1F1E89-9881-483F-99E6-AE98A7E61845.jpeg
I mean it's spelled out on the tech specs page left is M2 and right is M2 Pro
 
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SpacemanSpiffed

macrumors regular
Mar 27, 2013
192
282
Pacific NW
From the statement "‌Mac mini‌, it can support up to 4K resolution at 240Hz ove‌r HDMI", I think it has to be 2.1 as 2.0b can't do that even with DSC.

However, it sounds like there is a caveat with the total amount of video output bandwidth the GPU can support, probably around the HDMI 2.1 limit of 42.6 GBit/sec.

I'm confident that it's an issue with reading the video RAM.

Unlike in a discrete card like an RTX 3080, this is memory bandwidth being siphoned off from the 200 GB/sec unified memory on the M2 Pro that is already being accessed and shared by the CPU Cores, GPU cores and Neural Network cores.

I'm sure that's why the M2 (non Pro) with only 100 GB/sec of memory bandwidth only supports 2 displays (6K and 5K), while the M2 Pro can do 3 (6K, 6K and 4K). The bandwidth has to be divided up.

For reference:

4K @ 60hz is 12.54 Gb/sec.
4K @ 240hz is 54.84 Gb/sec.
HDMI 2.1 is 42.6Gb/sec, so 240hz is only Possible by using Display Stream Compression (DSC))
3 total 4K @ 60 hz displays would be 37.62 Gb/sec total, but spread among 3 different output signals (HDMI + 2x DisplayPort).

Edit: Corrected GB to Gb (Giga Bytes to Bits)
 
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reallynotnick

macrumors 65816
Oct 21, 2005
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is one 2.0 and the other 2.1?
The only thing that matters is what it supports. All features, including bandwidth, are optional as part of the 2.1 spec. Do you want higher than 4K60? If yes, get the Pro.


4K @ 60hz is 12.54 GB/sec.
4K @ 240hz is 54.84 GB/sec.
HDMI 2.1 is 42.6GB/sec, so 240hz is only Possible by using Display Stream Compression (DSC))
3 total 4K @ 60 hz displays would be 37.62 GB/sec total, but spread among 3 different output signals (HDMI + 2x DisplayPort).

All of your video numbers are 8x too high, HDMI is reported in Gb/s not GB/s. The memory speed however is in measured in GB/s, so those numbers are right.
 

SpacemanSpiffed

macrumors regular
Mar 27, 2013
192
282
Pacific NW
All of your video numbers are 8x too high, HDMI is reported in Gb/s not GB/s. The memory speed however is in measured in GB/s, so those numbers are right.

Noted and fixed. I had the HDMI 2.1 correct at the top and then got caps-lock happy.

I'll stand by my assertion that access to the unified memory to read out for displays is almost certainly capped. I've worked with a lot of devices over the years that had to multiplex bus or memory access and that's just a thing that comes with the territory. Besides all the CPU/GPU/NN cores I mentioned you also got memory access by the DMA controller and the T2 chip (DDS) and Thunderbolt ports going on. It's kinda like going from a person's gross salary to what's left over for discretionary spending -- After taxes, insurance, automatic deductions, rent, food, kids expenses, etc. a big number get whittled down to a small number. :)

Also, given that it can shift the (maximum) output between the TB and HDMI ports it does not seem to be a limitation of any individual output port.
 

espacioami

macrumors member
Nov 10, 2022
50
27
So M2 is HDMI 2.0?

The power of the M2 is good enough for me but I'm going to connect it to a monitor 1440p@144 with VRR and I think only HDMI 2.1 supports it. Am I right? (I had an M1 with that monitor only gave me 100Hz with VRR on) Any comments are welcome! thanks
 

reallynotnick

macrumors 65816
Oct 21, 2005
1,253
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So M2 is HDMI 2.0?

The power of the M2 is good enough for me but I'm going to connect it to a monitor 1440p@144 with VRR and I think only HDMI 2.1 supports it. Am I right? (I had an M1 with that monitor only gave me 100Hz with VRR on) Any comments are welcome! thanks

It's the same 18Gb/s limit unless you get the Pro. You need to drop to 8bit color if you want 1440p144 with HDMI or you need to use DisplayPort to use 10bit 1440p144.
 
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benji888

macrumors 68000
Sep 27, 2006
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United States
M2 has HDMI 2.0 (the base Mac mini with 2 USB c ports)
M2 Pro has HDMI 2.1 (the Mac mini M2 pro with 4 USB c ports)

That is just for the physical HDMI port connection.

Others have pointed out what monitors each can drive.
 

benji888

macrumors 68000
Sep 27, 2006
1,889
410
United States
So M2 is HDMI 2.0?

The power of the M2 is good enough for me but I'm going to connect it to a monitor 1440p@144 with VRR and I think only HDMI 2.1 supports it. Am I right? (I had an M1 with that monitor only gave me 100Hz with VRR on) Any comments are welcome! thanks
The M2 mini only supports 60 hz.

The M2 pro mini will do up to 144hz with DP/USB c or up to 240 over HDMI 2.1 (with a proper cable). That’s with 1 or 2 montitors. It looks like you can hook up 3 monitors to the Pro, but limited to 60hz for each.
 
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toddzrx

macrumors 6502a
Nov 20, 2012
725
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In general: anyone know if the base M2 Mini can drive an ultrawide monitor (21:9 aspect ratio)? I assume it can since others have gotten the M1 Mini to work with them. I guess the bigger question is: what ultrawide resolution would the M2 Mini support? Typically, ultrawide's come in 1080, 1440, 1600, or 2160P. I'm hoping it can drive 2160P, but that seems too optimistic. Will I have to get the M2 Pro Mini to drive a 2160P ultrawide?
 

reallynotnick

macrumors 65816
Oct 21, 2005
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In general: anyone know if the base M2 Mini can drive an ultrawide monitor (21:9 aspect ratio)? I assume it can since others have gotten the M1 Mini to work with them. I guess the bigger question is: what ultrawide resolution would the M2 Mini support? Typically, ultrawide's come in 1080, 1440, 1600, or 2160P. I'm hoping it can drive 2160P, but that seems too optimistic. Will I have to get the M2 Pro Mini to drive a 2160P ultrawide?

5120x2160 ("2160p Ultrawide") is less than a 5K monitor which is 5120x2880 and it can run that fine. It can even do a 6K monitor though that uses DSC since it's DisplayPort 1.4 and is bandwidth limited.
 

NikoBeaR

macrumors member
Nov 20, 2020
58
80
The M2 mini only supports 60 hz.

The M2 pro mini will do up to 144hz with DP/USB c or up to 240 over HDMI 2.1 (with a proper cable). That’s with 1 or 2 montitors. It looks like you can hook up 3 monitors to the Pro, but limited to 60hz for each.
uh what? 1440p @ 60 only?
 

benji888

macrumors 68000
Sep 27, 2006
1,889
410
United States
apple listed tech specs:

M2 mini "One display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one display with up to 5K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt or 4K resolution at 60Hz over HDMI"

M2 pro mini "
  • Up to three displays: Two displays with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one display with up to 4K resolution at 60Hz over HDMI
  • Up to two displays: One display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one display with up to 4K resolution at 144Hz over HDMI
  • One display with up to 8K resolution at 60Hz or 4K resolution at 240Hz over HDMI"
...But, maybe it will do higher Hz at lower resolution, but, that's a question I don't know how to answer.
 
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pcfarrar

macrumors regular
Nov 23, 2010
104
22
uh what? 1440p @ 60 only?

The M2 Mini can do 144Hz at 1440p same as the M1 model but you have to use a USB-C to display port cable. If you use HDMI it's 100/120Hz I think. My current 3440 x 1440 monitor will only run at 100Hz on my M1 Mini over HDMI.
 
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umbilical

macrumors 65816
May 3, 2008
1,318
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FL, USA
I'm waiting for a future next Studio Display or XDR, so 2.1 could still a waste on that two monitors? so even the next versions will be only 60hz?
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,189
11,962
In terms of functionality, essentially the M2 Mac mini is HDMI 2.0 and the M2 Pro Mac mini is HDMI 2.1.

However, to nitpick:

All new Macs including the M2 Mac mini would be called HDMI 2.1 (or higher). Why? Because the HDMI 2.1 nomenclature is now effectively meaningless. All HDMI devices that would have been previously called HDMI 2.0 are now to be called HDMI 2.1 regardless of what HDMI 2.1 features it has. In fact, the HDMI 2.0 nomenclature no longer exists, as of 2022. What used to be called HDMI 2.0 is now considered a subset of HDMI 2.1, using the HDMI 2.1 nomenclature.

Apple gets around this naming stupidity by not providing the version number at all.
 

espacioami

macrumors member
Nov 10, 2022
50
27
Does M2 (no pro) support 1440@144 with G-sync enable via HDMI? I had an experience with an M1 and it only reached 1440@100Hz with G-sync on. With G-sync off, i get 120 hz with no issues but with 144Hz i had black screens. thanks!
 

PR.

macrumors regular
Oct 3, 2005
134
20
Bedford, UK
Has anyone tried an ultra wide 4K monitor on the non-pro M2?

Tech specs say 4K @ 60hz but an ultra wide will be more pixels than a normal 16:9 4K screen…

Thanks
 
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EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,189
11,962
Has anyone tried an ultra wide 4K monitor on the non-pro M2?

Tech specs say 4K @ 60hz but an ultra wide will be more pixels than a normal 16:9 4K screen…
For what it's worth, even my M1 supports my 3840x2560 monitor (which is more than 4K) at 60 Hz over USB-C. However, over HDMI, it's limited on my monitor to 3840x2160 (4K) at 60 Hz since that's what the monitor (and likely the Mac) is limited to. To get 3840x2560 (more than 4K) over HDMI, it has to be 50 Hz. Luckily, if you're forced to use HDMI, 50 Hz is fine IMO for business workloads, surfing, and email etc.
 
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ciarals

macrumors member
Mar 26, 2010
86
10
Italy
Hello guys. This is my actual monitor:

LG 27UP600
Ultra HD 4K (3840x2160) 60Hz
HDR 10, VESA DisplayHDR™ 400
DisplayPort 1.4 (HDCP 2.2)
HDMI 2.0 (HDCP 2.2)

I think I will connect the Mac Mini to the monitor using a USBC - DisplayPort cable. The question is: will both Mac Mini (M2 and M2 Pro) will be fine with this monitor or the M2 Pro is "useless" with this monitor? Will I have problems? I'm still undecided on which Mac Mini to buy and the monitor support could maybe help me choosing the right one.

Thank you!
 
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