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Quick update after about 3 weeks with my M2 Pro Mac mini 10,16/16GB/2TB and for the first time today I noticed 1.5GB swap being used in Activity Monitor. I have not been doing anything intensive and saw no slowdowns whatsoever. Why there was swap used and 12Gb of RAM? No clue. About 1.5GB was WindowServer. I will keep an eye on it, but even with swap being used I had no clue it was being used.
 
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My M2 Pro 12,19/32GB/512GB finally arrived after more than 4 weeks and after setting everything up, when I run Lightroom Classic and did some processing, I noticed that Lightroom was using more than 20GB of RAM😱 LR really uses as much memory as you can give it😂 I'm using a 4K monitor by the way.

But all in all, I was pretty impressed by how speedy everything is, obviously, including bootup was noticeably faster (not that it matters much). LR and Capture One was leaps and bounds ahead of my MM2018. Previously, the sliders and adjustments such as rotating, cropping were painfully lagging. Now everything is super smooth. Heat wise, it's just slightly warmer than my dad's M1, but I haven't noticed the fans yet.
 
Mine arrived today and I'm wondering if the ram will be enough (after wondering ever since its release but just went for 16GB due to the cost). It's literally doing nothing with one chrome tab open and I'm at over 9gb
 

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Mine arrived today and I'm wondering if the ram will be enough (after wondering ever since its release but just went for 16GB due to the cost). It's literally doing nothing with one chrome tab open and I'm at over 9gb
Forget the numbers, just trust the graph. With the green color indicated memory pressure so low you are actually fine with 8GB even. Try to hammer your Mac with as much happening as possible to see if the graph will even turn yellow. Majority of users won't see it.
 
Mine arrived today and I'm wondering if the ram will be enough (after wondering ever since its release but just went for 16GB due to the cost). It's literally doing nothing with one chrome tab open and I'm at over 9gb
Try a stronger workload (more tabs and more apps open, and do something more intensive). Show us the graph you get.
 
Forget the numbers, just trust the graph. With the green color indicated memory pressure so low you are actually fine with 8GB even. Try to hammer your Mac with as much happening as possible to see if the graph will even turn yellow. Majority of users won't see it.
I second this. @marklcfc , 16GB is likely more than sufficient for you. On my M1 MBA with 16GB, I opened everything (including several software development tools, Docker, VM, multiple photo editing apps, Final Cut Pro, dozens of browser tabs, deliberately trying to max out RAM, etc.) and still didn't tap into swap. Ironically, when I closed all the apps down and rebooted my laptop, RAM sat at 12GB used but the pressure is much greener.

MacOS is making good use of the RAM, so don't sweat it when memory is put to use even when you're "not doing anything". Once you start doing real work then the primary applications get RAM priority. The OS doesn't want good RAM to go to waste when the system is idle and that's why you see "high memory use" but truthfully it's very low memory pressure (green). If you truly needed more than 16GB RAM then you'd feel it with sluggish system performance without needing Activity Monitor to tell you.

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Because I have seen this "potential" benefit manifest itself often enough in the form of additional years of usable computer. For example the people that got a decade of casual or slightly-more-than-casual use out of a 2012 MacBook Air. Those that upgraded to 8GB of course, not those that stuck with the 4GB baseline. Planned obsolescence through RAM scarcity is hardly a good idea. Chasing the greatest and latest for its own sake is a first-world pastime that is rarely justified objectively.
Nonsense. I would never follow or tell people what you are saying. Never ever buy something you don’t need with the idea that maybe in 5 years you might. It’s stupid!
In 5 years you are more likely to need other things to upgrade too. Either way. It’s a waste of money.
 
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Nonsense. I would never follow or tell people what you are saying. Never ever buy something you don’t need with the idea that maybe in 5 years you might. It’s stupid!
In 5 years you are more likely to need other things to upgrade too. Either way. It’s a waste of money.
I don't agree with you, not at all! I agree with Basic75.

My old Mac mini (from 2009) died because it only had 4GB: it wrote to much swap files on its poor HDD, which failed a few years ago. If it had 8GB ram like my old 2010 MBP, it probably would have lasted much longer (more than 12 years for that MBP, which is still running fine). I wrote this message on this very old MBP, thanks to its 8GB which was very costly at the time of purchase! I wanted that MBP to last a long period of time, and I was right!
 
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And yet, if you put that money aside then when the 4gb was no longer enough you would be able to pick up better machine for way less and overall win. Not to mention to have warranty again, longevity again and faster workflow.
Inflation made the upgrade back then even costlier.
Also, the switch to AS introduced new ways of things so we can't compare it to wintel era as things are (and will be) different.

Anyway, its stupid to buy something you may need in the future. Unless you are certain that in a year you are starting a project that will need this then there is no point doing so. You are literally wasting money in the long run.

a funny note: if you put the money to Apple stock back in that 2009 and didn't upgrade the ram then that money itself would most likely pay for a new computer and you would still have tons of AAPL shares left.

Being smart with money is much better investment than "what if" wasting money.



I don't agree with you, not at all! I agree with Basic75.

My old Mac mini (from 2009) died because it only had 4GB: it wrote to much swap files on its poor HDD, which failed a few years ago. If it had 8GB ram like my old 2010 MBP, it probably would have lasted much longer (more than 12 years for that MBP, which is still running fine). I wrote this message on this very old MBP, thanks to its 8GB which was very costly at the time of purchase! I wanted that MBP to last a long period of time, and I was right!
 
My old Mac mini (from 2009) died because it only had 4GB: it wrote to much swap files on its poor HDD, which failed a few years ago. If it had 8GB ram like my old 2010 MBP, it probably would have lasted much longer (more than 12 years for that MBP, which is still running fine). I wrote this message on this very old MBP, thanks to its 8GB which was very costly at the time of purchase! I wanted that MBP to last a long period of time, and I was right!
So the mini didn't die, only the HDD. You could have replaced that with a SSD and added 4GB ram. That is what I did about half way through my '09 mini's lifespan plus 2 fan replacements. And guess what, it is still in service today; used by my wife running Windows 10. I originally bought the base version and had no idea how long it would last but, unlike today, I could make it last with upgrades; and by the time I did the upgrades they were dirt cheap compared to what you would have paid for them upfront (if they were even available). Calculus is different today because no upgrades possible; just buy what you need now or next few years and then sell it for new model. Sort of like leasing a car; only pay for value you use over a short time span. BTW, the original HDD from that '09 mini still works but not used now.
 
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And yet, if you put that money aside then when the 4gb was no longer enough you would be able to pick up better machine for way less and overall win. Not to mention to have warranty again, longevity again and faster workflow.
Inflation made the upgrade back then even costlier.
Also, the switch to AS introduced new ways of things so we can't compare it to wintel era as things are (and will be) different.

Anyway, its stupid to buy something you may need in the future. Unless you are certain that in a year you are starting a project that will need this then there is no point doing so. You are literally wasting money in the long run.
...
Being smart with money is much better investment than "what if" wasting money.

This is stupid! Buying a whole new computer certainly cost more than upgrading memory at the purchase time, unless you buy the lowest and cheapest crap. The crap computers are useless to me (and especially the base mini with just 8GB/256GB). Buying a new computer each three years is stupid. More waste, more pollution, ... geez, no wonder this world is hitting the wall!
 
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I havent been paying attention to RAM usage on my 2 week old M2 Mini Pro 16GB. It's just been blistering fast with Logic Pro, MainStage, and a few of the Virtual Instruments Ive been tossing at it. So tonight, I looked. At idle.. with just a Firefox browser going.. it was using ~ 9GB of the 16GB I have! Yikes. So, I launched MainStage... then Logic Pro, then Word, Excel, a handful of software instruments (any one of which, used to tax the crap out of the 2011 iMac this Mini replaced). Everything is still super fast. But memory consumption? Well.. that 9GB grew... and grew... now .. it's hovering at 11.59 GB used. 🥰 Holy crap.. the M2 Mini Pro with 16GB is a fricken miser with RAM.

Anyway - back to the discussion.
 
I don't agree with you, not at all! I agree with Basic75.

My old Mac mini (from 2009) died because it only had 4GB: it wrote to much swap files on its poor HDD, which failed a few years ago. If it had 8GB ram like my old 2010 MBP, it probably would have lasted much longer (more than 12 years for that MBP, which is still running fine). I wrote this message on this very old MBP, thanks to its 8GB which was very costly at the time of purchase! I wanted that MBP to last a long period of time, and I was right!
On what do you base the analysis that it failed because of swap? :) I’d really like to know!

This is becoming comical. You know a machine might last even longer if you put it on a shelf and never touch it. :)

Did you replace the HDD with an SSD and get another 5 years out of it?
 
This is stupid! Buying a whole new computer certainly cost more than upgrading memory at the purchase time, unless you buy the lowest and cheapest crap. The crap computers are useless to me (and especially the base mini with just 8GB/256GB). Buying a new computer each three years is stupid. More waste, more pollution, ... geez, no wonder this world is hitting the wall!
Please describe how those poor 2018 and 2019 Mac buyers feel, buying an Intel Mac during the last days of Intel, spending an extra X percent to make their computer “Futureproof for ten years!” (Lol!) They look slow now, in the first 2 years of AS. Imagine how slow they’ll look in 2-3 MORE years.

It’s absurd. You can’t do it, and you shouldn’t try. You’ll want to do a lot more “new and improved” with your Mac in five years over and above some extra RAM. Just buy what you need now, and then sell and get something more modern in a few years when the time comes.
 
Did you replace the HDD with an SSD and get another 5 years out of it?
I considered this option when its HDD died, but it wasn't worth the time/effort and money to do it at that time (that was 2 years ago). It was already a very old computer (more than 11 years!), and I had a MBP with 8GB ram to replace it (the same I'm using right now, which have more than 12 years!). I used these two computers very intensively for all these years, and the MBP is still kicking.
 
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I considered this option when its HDD died, but it wasn't worth the time/effort and money to do it at that time (that was 2 years ago). It was already a very old computer (more than 11 years!), and I had a MBP with 8GB ram to replace it (the same I'm using right now, which have more than 12 years!). I used these two computers very intensively for all these years, and the MBP is still kicking.
Can you answer my question about how you determined swap was to blame, please?
 
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It’s absurd. You can’t do it, and you shouldn’t try. You’ll want to do a lot more “new and improved” with your Mac in five years over and above some extra RAM. Just buy what you need now, and then sell and get something more modern in a few years when the time comes.
This is pure BS dude.
 
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Can you answer my question about how you determined swap was to blame, please?
Why do you want to know this? It was obvious to me when it happened. Whatever the reason, the HHD died, and it wasn't worth to change it and rescue that poor old mini. The MBP was the rescue for a few more years before I go to the Silicon Macs (I skipped the M1, since I never buy a first generation of a new product).
 
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Why do you want to know this?

Because I want to know if you have any foundation for what you are saying. It appears you do not, and you’re guessing about why your HDD failed. It’s fair to say you’ve no idea why it failed, and you’re assuming it failed due to swap. Why do you blame swap, please?

It should be noted that wear issues on SSDs were last common (is it fair to say, an issue, here?) in 2008 or so, short of extraordinary issues like what Apple fixed in 2021 (? - the smartctl issue iirc) timeframe. TBW is, for the vast, vast, vast majority, a purely theoretical concept. Don’t believe that YouTube hype too!

They didn’t (and don’t) apply to hard drives.
 
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Because I want to know if you have any foundation for what you are saying. It appears you do not, and you’re guessing about why your HDD failed. It’s fair to say you’ve no idea why it failed, and you’re assuming it failed due to swap. Why do you blame swap, please?

Dude, the abuse of swap killed the HDD, period. I strictly don't care about what you think, since you're so cynical and negative. Byebye!
 
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I feel like you are really, really throwing a word salad around here.

An OS can’t “abuse” swap, any more than booting up a drive (or using a HDD to write data) “abuses” it. That just isn’t how it works. We buy stuff to use it. We don’t buy it to let it sit on a shelf. If you do, you wasted that money.

If your argument is “If my OS didn’t swap, I’d have less wear and tear on my drives!”, well, I suppose in some conceptual way that’s true, but you’d have a far weaker OS, unable to flex as memory demands ebb and flow, which would be incredibly limiting in many common situations. The last OS that I can remember that simply couldn’t do this was AmigaOS from 1986 or so, and while it was incredible in some things (fast multitasking, for what little fit in memory) it had massive limitations (memory limits, no memory protection being key items) that go part and parcel with swap. Oh, and MacOS until OSX was limiting too, with swap, but no real protected memory + preemptive multitasking.

VM, swap, page files, page activity, and using the machine as Apple designed it is not a bad thing. Every modern OS (looking at Linux & Friends, Windows NT+, and modern MacOS) all have swap files and use them routinely. In a machine with an MMU (almost every machine since the 386DX) that’s exactly what you want to happen - so you can run stuff that can page parts of itself out of memory when required, all controlled by the OS, and all protected by the OS into a kernel layer and a userland layer. It turns out that loading an entire program / an entire program’s dataset into memory, all at once, can sometimes be incredibly inefficient, and it’s far smarter to page it out to disk when you don’t need to access all of it.

This concept that we all should micromanage our swap, or that using it is bad, needs to die. The nonsense YouTube kids that post clickbait around this need to stop. It’s simply not true.
 
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You've just discredited yourself when it wasn't needed. We are having adult conversation here and its fair to listen to others and their input. By probing, it came to attention that maybe you are incorrect about certain things so instead of sandboxing, you could just realise that and don't make the same mistake in the future. After all, we are all here to help.
As pointed out before, the advice should be buy now what you need and don't waste money on something you may not need as in the future things will be totally different. Its simply impossible what you 'may' need as things change.

in 2019 you could have wasted money on upgrades for Mac Pro only to be totally redundant 3 years later with the Mac Studio. So all those upgrades would be useless and waste of money.

The mac pro was a great example of your flawed approach. Take it and learn from it.

Dude, the abuse of swap killed the HDD, period. I strictly don't care about what you think, since you're so cynical and negative. Byebye!
 
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Not everybody here have the same opinion as you and foo2's. Others are disagreeing with your advice. You don't hold the truth, and you don't know what I'm doing with my computers (except the few of what I've described here). You just share your biased personal experience, and that's okay, but I don't agree with it. My mini is coming, and I'm off from this thread now.
 
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