Mac Mini M4 upside down? Other methods to power on?

[jay-A]

in all fairness the product should be designed well enough such that the OP should be able to turn it off easily if such is his will. This power button at the bottom is just an idiotic design choice, a fantastic source of first world problem reports and of bagloads of spilled internet ink.

This being said, it is equally true that macs do not need to be shut off, and this has been true for the 25ish years macs have been running OSX.

 

[Martin Bland]

I turn everything off I don't need.
There is no benefit to leave it running. It's a HTPC, not a server.

Of course, there is a benefit for you to leave it running. No need for you to faff with powering it on. Which is clearly bothering you.

So there’s your benefit, and no apparent drawbacks.

 

[nathansz]

I have 2012 Mac mini running as our home server (plex/Time Machine/etc)

It’s been powered on nearly 24/7 for about 8 years

Point being, why not just lift it up to turn it on, and then forget about it

 

[avro707]

I'm "one of the select few" who turns off my MacBook Pro 14" (typing on it now) each and every night.

I also turn off my computers when they are not being used or if there are storms coming through (frequent at the moment). Also had power outages recently because of those storms.

I doesn't take much bother to turn them off.

 

[lhammer610]

I turn everything off I don't need.
There is no benefit to leave it running. It's a HTPC, not a server.

It isn’t running. It is asleep.

Do you turn off your TV at night? Of course you don’t. If you did, the remote wouldn’t work.

Do you turn off the microwave? If you did, the clock would be wrong.

Do you have a door bell? If you turned it off, the door bell would not work.

When the Mac is ‘asleep’ it draws almost no power. Get over it.

 

[TechnoMonk]

in all fairness the product should be designed well enough such that the OP should be able to turn it off easily if such is his will. This power button at the bottom is just an idiotic design choice, a fantastic source of first world problem reports and of bagloads of spilled internet ink.

This being said, it is equally true that macs do not need to be shut off, and this has been true for the 25ish years macs have been running OSX.

Or don’t buy it if it doesn’t suit the needs. I haven’t purchased a Mac Mini in 15 years, after Apple changed the 2009 model. Just bought a New Mac mini 4 to replace couple of my raspberry pi’s. Clearly OP is bothered with new design, just return and buy what Is designed well for turning off the power.

 

[Algr]

In what world is this a solution?

Bento Box, if you are concerned about power draw, you MUST get one of these:

Otherwise you will drive yourself nuts chasing phantom power draws while ignoring the obvious problems:

30 seconds of air conditioning will probably use more power than your Mac mini uses in a month. And the reboot cycle when you turn it on might consume more power than you save by turning the mini off. Don't forget the extra power your router will consume when the Wifi has to keep reconnecting. This could add up to 50 cents a year or more.

 

[nathansz]

In what world is this a solution?

Maybe not a solution but rather pointing out there is no problem

There is almost no reason to ever use the power button

So just dont worry about it

 

[aevan]

Bento Box, if you are concerned about power draw, you MUST get one of these:
View attachment 2466617
Otherwise you will drive yourself nuts chasing phantom power draws while ignoring the obvious problems:

30 seconds of air conditioning will probably use more power than your Mac mini uses in a month. And the reboot cycle when you turn it on might consume more power than you save by turning the mini off. Don't forget the extra power your router will consume when the Wifi has to keep reconnecting. This could add up to 50 cents a year or more.

This. It’s probably just as, if not more cost and environment effective to keep your Mac in standby.

 

[antiprotest]

This is more about the magic mouse though. Funny.

 

[MacCheetah3]

It's really not very ergonomical. It makes more sense to run it upside down, so the power button is actually reachable without crouching down and lifting the device. Is this somehow detrimental to the airflow / cooling?

Probably negligible, if any.

Now it sits upside down next to my Wii U above the Onkyo Amp. Both of which have the power button in front for easier access.

Depending on your environment, the upside down orientation may cause additional internal dust buildup (i.e., settled/settling dust would be pulled in more easily).

As for button accessibility, there are plenty of options. Vertical orientation doesn’t require a stand. In my situation, I re-used/repurposed the vertical stand I had been using with my 2012 and 2020 (M1) Mac mini.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/the-correct-orientation-of-the-mac-mini.2443408/page-2?post=33580059#post-33580059

I sometimes accidentally press the power button when I grasp the mini to plug/unplug a peripheral.

I turn everything off I don't need.
There is no benefit to leave it running.

For the most part, I agree.

30 seconds of air conditioning will probably use more power than your Mac mini uses in a month. And the reboot cycle when you turn it on might consume more power than you save by turning the mini off. Don't forget the extra power your router will consume when the Wifi has to keep reconnecting. This could add up to 50 cents a year or more.

The potential bad (and good) of that mentality is that it can (and often does) spread. As you’ve somewhat described, this device/gadget/appliance/what-have-you only requires this little bit more if only I do this. But it adds up. Same thing for shopping and other expenses, “It’s only one more dollar."

For me, it’s mostly in the positive/conservational direction...

I often shut down my Mac before going to work and before bedtime — that’s presumably ~16 combined hours, 2/3 of a day. Admittedly, I have considered unplugging the Internet gateway/wireless router/AP when not at home. Furthermore, I have my computer display to ‘sleep' after 2 minutes. Thanks to HDMI-CEC, the TV and AV receiver are turned off/set to low-power standby when the Apple TV sleeps. I typically turn off the lights before exiting a room. I don’t use Instant On for Xbox or Fast Boot on my PCs. I have several LED nightlights so I rarely need to turn on the regular room lights. In the summer, I minimize AC usage, almost entirely off during the daylight hours with the thermostat set in the 70s at night, whatever feels minimally comfortable at the moment. In winter, I rarely use whole home heat. For one, I live in an apartment, so only one exposed side. My ~800W consuming beast of a PC produces a good amount of heat; it runs FAH overnight (in cold months). I occasionally utilize heating pads and other focused heating items. I could go on and on but that’s most of the energy-related stuff.

Definitely, some of those actions are atypical and/or compromises, good and bad. There really is no perfect approach/method.

 

[XboxEvolved]

Is...is it to heavy for you to just slightly lift it up and push the button that way to turn it on? Also if you have an Apple keyboard pretty sure it can be turned on via that. Besides that when in goes to sleep it's likely drawing even less power than some things you have plugged in and turned off in your house like your TV. How does this thread have two pages? Lol

 

[theorist9]

I don't use my AS MBP enough to assess how things are with AS, but all my Intel Macs have required regular reboots to ensure stable operation. I find my 2019 iMac needs to be rebooted once/week; otherwise its behavior becomes a bit wonky.

I'd mentioned this to an AC senior rep, and he consulted with one of the AC engineers, who agreed rebooting weekly was good practice. If you do a shutdown instead of a restart, then you will indeed need to access the power button to turn the machine on.

 

[russell_314]

In what world is this a solution?

In the vast majority of the world that has a stable power grid. If your area does not have this you could get a UPS, but that’s probably more trouble than it’s worth.

 

[Algr]

The potential bad (and good) of that mentality is that it can (and often does) spread. As you’ve somewhat described, this device/gadget/appliance/what-have-you only requires this little bit more if only I do this. But it adds up. Same thing for shopping and other expenses, “It’s only one more dollar."

Do the math. Sometimes it really is just one more dollar.

 

[Bento.Box]

Return it. Not good for mental health.

Are you speaking from experience?

In the vast majority of the world that has a stable power grid. If your area does not have this you could get a UPS, but that’s probably more trouble than it’s worth.

I think you misunderstood my English.

I was looking for an efficient way to turn it on. Not interested in a UPS solution. It doesn't run anything critical.

If you’re pressing that power button more then once or twice per month, you’re doing something wrong.

I don't spend much time watching movies or youtube on the big screen, but more than twice a month.
Not sure why you think this is wrong.

The previous model it did help because the antennas were in the foot. I haven’t looked at tear downs for the current model that closely to see where the antennas are now but I’d assume they are still in the foot, especially since the power supply is on the top of the sandwich.

yeah they seem to be in the foot here as well. Some people on the internet have reported bad wifi/BT when using a dock.
For me, BT works either way (it just has to reach the couch) and I don't need wifi, so it's turned off anyway (OSX seems to have a routing issue)

IMO considering turning the box upside down to access the power button is just silly.

Why? what's the downside? (no pun intended)

I know that some devices have a mandatory orientation, including some I built. E.g. my previous Desktop had a coalant reservoir with an opening to allow for thermal expansion. If put upside down, the coolant would leak out. (Semi-)Passively cooled devices also don't like the reverse air flow as they rely on hot air to rise.

 

[Bregalad]

I'm glad to hear that so many people have Macs that successfully sleep without any issues.

I've had decades of trouble. The only Macs that successfully slept for me had SCSI hard drives. For those who haven't been around that long, I'm talking about the 1990s.

In the early 2000s putting a Mac to sleep with an external HD connected via USB would randomly corrupt the drive. Upon waking up it would sometimes work fine. Occasionally, however, it would complain that the external drive hadn't been properly disconnected. Usually restarting would restore normal operation, but sometimes the drive would be corrupted and have to be erased. I had to switch to FireWire for all my external drives.

Then a few OS versions later FireWire 400 and FireWire 800 drives started misbehaving, refusing to mount properly on startup or refusing to power down when the computer was put to sleep. I seem to recall one external drive wouldn't stop spinning even if the Mac was turned completely off. I had to resort to manually dismounting and powering down every drive prior to shutting off the computer.

Then it was the computer itself refusing to go into sleep mode. Choosing sleep would turn the display off, but otherwise the entire machine was still running. I could hear the fan going.

Then I had a recurrence of the external drive issue. My TimeMachine hard drive, connected via USB 3.0, would randomly light up the power light and sometimes even spin up the drive for a few seconds before going back to sleep. Even after I started turning the computer off overnight I would sometimes see bright blue flashes coming from the power button on the external hard drive in the middle of the night. I eventually put a bunch of black cloth in front of the drive to block the light.

My current Intel iMac simply refuses to sleep at all. Selecting sleep will turn off the display. On extremely rare occasions it will power down the USB bus and spin down the drives for a few seconds before waking up again and asking for my password. If I ignore that for a while the screen eventually goes dark, but the computer is clearly still running and the mouse continues to glow red.

For over 20 years I've been forced to shut down my Mac every night or eat the cost of a machine running constantly.

 

[ThailandToo]

I turn everything off I don't need.
There is no benefit to leave it running. It's a HTPC, not a server.

Now it sits upside down next to my Wii U above the Onkyo Amp. Both of which have the power button in front for easier access.


In what world is this a solution?

Yeah, I don’t power down my MacBook Pro, Studio, iPad, iPhone or even ThinkPad. No idea why it needs powered down. In sleep mode it can get updates and probably uses less power than a penny daily in sleep mode.

 

[ThailandToo]

Are you speaking from experience?



I think you misunderstood my English.

I was looking for an efficient way to turn it on. Not interested in a UPS solution. It doesn't run anything critical.



I don't spend much time watching movies or youtube on the big screen, but more than twice a month.
Not sure why you think this is wrong.



yeah they seem to be in the foot here as well. Some people on the internet have reported bad wifi/BT when using a dock.
For me, BT works either way (it just has to reach the couch) and I don't need wifi, so it's turned off anyway (OSX seems to have a routing issue)



Why? what's the downside? (no pun intended)

I know that some devices have a mandatory orientation, including some I built. E.g. my previous Desktop had a coalant reservoir with an opening to allow for thermal expansion. If put upside down, the coolant would leak out. (Semi-)Passively cooled devices also don't like the reverse air flow as they rely on hot air to rise.

It’s not that difficult to reach. Really do not get this complaint. What world are we living in? I mean even the Magic Mouse with its power on the bottom means nothing. Five minutes charge there gets like a day’s battery life. People blow some things way out of proportion. Seriously, if you have such a problem, return it.

 

[sleeptodream]

Do the math. Sometimes it really is just one more dollar.

This. It’s literally in the range of $1-2 per year. If one makes at least $10/hour and has spent an hour thinking about this, or rebooting daily, or posting on forums about it, that lost time is already more valuable than the electricity their mini would use in sleep mode over it’s entire life.

Besides that though, macOS runs maintenance scripts from time to time during sleep, generally overnight. Some happen daily, others are weekly or monthly. At least I assume that’s still the case, someone correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Palindrom]

To the faction telling to put it to sleep mode because the sleep mode is so good at apple:

Have you actually tried putting it into sleep mode ? That works like after the fifth Click on sleep Mode because when you Click on that you should Not move the mouse at all. Otherwise going into sleep will be interrupted. And once it was interrupted clicking on „sleep mode“ works after x clicks.

Once it is in sleep mode though it will wake up here and then and turn on my keyboard‘s and mouse lights.

Yes I turned every option enabling this auto wake up off. Still that thing wakes up on its own.

Turning it off is the only way to have the Mac in a reliable state when not in use.

 

[Algr]

I get that waking up from sleep issue too. But if I wait a few minutes, it just goes to sleep on it's own.

You might be running a program like Discord that looks at web data automatically. Try quitting such programs to see if it reduces the wakeups.

 

[Palindrom]

I get that waking up from sleep issue too. But if I wait a few minutes, it just goes to sleep on it's own.

Then wakes up again later. I tried that several times now. Only shutting it down works fine

 

[Palindrom]

I get that waking up from sleep issue too. But if I wait a few minutes, it just goes to sleep on it's own.

You might be running a program like Discord that looks at web data automatically. Try quitting such programs to see if it reduces the wakeups.

No I dont run such apps and even if it is the os fault to react to such updates. Sleep is sleep- don’t react to anything.

I even turned WiFi and Bluetooth off before going into sleep mode- still it wakes up randomly.

 

[Bento.Box]

Ok, it's a bit off topic now:

Yeah, I don’t power down my MacBook Pro, Studio, iPad, iPhone or even ThinkPad. No idea why it needs powered down. In sleep mode it can get updates and probably uses less power than a penny daily in sleep mode.

It was never the question of whether a device needs to be powered down or not. The question was how to conveniently power it on.
Somebody also mentioned that the ARM mini supports the ATX power loss restart feature. So there could be an external mechanical switch.

That said:
It's best practice to update software during a maintenance window. Not having it update randomly. That leads to frequent crashes and service outages.

It’s not that difficult to reach. Really do not get this complaint. What world are we living in? I mean even the Magic Mouse with its power on the bottom means nothing. Five minutes charge there gets like a day’s battery life. People blow some things way out of proportion. Seriously, if you have such a problem, return it.

Maybe your arms work different than mine. Industry design guidelines typically place buttons in front of devices or on top in the living room setting. Just have a look at all the game consoles, VCRs, satelitte receivers, amps etc. from the past decades.

Of course, for ceiling mounted mac minis the placement would be ideal. Would also free the BT/WIFI antennae. Maybe apple had other use cases in mind than me.

When the Mac is ‘asleep’ it draws almost no power. Get over it.

Is my English so bad or why is it that these people don't seem to get the assignment?