Mac Mini Refresh Soon?

[shawnce]

Conroe is cooler than G5, which used the same case.

Folks need to be careful when making G5 to Conroe/etc. comparisons....

The PPC 970FX (single core G5 which was in the iMac G5) has a TDP below that of a Conroe.

The Conroe and Woodcrest have a TDP well below the PPC 970MP (dual core G5) which was used in the later generation PowerMac G5 systems.

 

[jakemikey]

Sadly, I've tried to make cheaper VIA based mini-ITX systems. I usually end up getting a better buy from a Mac Mini.

Not if you're going for an embedded system that doesn't need a heavy duty CPU and graphics. I built a fanless home server/internet filter/firewall box for less than $200 (and this is in the mini form factor - mini-ITX). A mini would be overkill for that and almost all of the other above listed embedded applications. Get the right tool for the right job is all I'm saying. I would never use a VIA system for a desktop, but for almost every embedded application they're fantastic.

 

[Eidorian]

Not if you're going for an embedded system that doesn't need a heavy duty CPU and graphics. I built a fanless home server/internet filter/firewall box for less than $200 (and this is in the mini form factor - mini-ITX). A mini would be overkill for that and almost all of the other above listed embedded applications. Get the right tool for the right job is all I'm saying. I would never use a VIA system for a desktop, but for almost every embedded application they're fantastic.

With the G4 Mini's hitting $300-400 I see a better buy there. Then again I do love Mini-ITX and playing with Linux. (Free OS and good support for mini server applications.) There's an application for both. I just see the Mac mini being a"mini mac" for only a little bit more.

Folks need to be careful when making G5 to Conroe/etc. comparisons....

The PPC 970FX (single core G5 which was in the iMac G5) has a TDP below that of a Conroe.

The Conroe and Woodcrest have a TDP well below the PPC 970MP (dual core G5) which was used in the later generation PowerMac G5 systems.

For some odd reason even though the 970FX has a lower TDP the Conroe systems are surprisingly cool. I've seen 50° C from Conroe under full load. That's a lot lower then the 75° C on my iMac G5.

 

[netdog]

Why would updated mac minis be such a high security product. Its nothing revolutionary so why would apple want so much security on the shipping of them? Im hoping for something BIG

Now you're talking. I want my iFon

 

[shawnce]

I've seen 50° C from Conroe under full load. That's a lot lower then the 75° C on my iMac G5.

CPU temp is a result of how efficient the heat dissipation is relative to the heat generated by the CPU... so without knowing how the heat dissipation capabilities varied between the two systems you cannot make much of a judgement on the CPU itself. (you would need the same case, same cooling system, same work load, etc. to make such a comparison)

The first generation iMac G5 had worse heat dissipating capabilities then later revisions of the iMac G5.

Should also note that the temp sensors are also potentially measuring at different points along the thermal chain (not looked into that myself).

 

[Eidorian]

CPU temp is a result of how efficient the heat dissipation is relative to the heat generated by the CPU... so without knowing how the heat dissipation capabilities varied between the two systems you cannot make much of a judgement on the CPU itself.

The first generation iMac G5 had worse heat dissipating capabilities then later revisions of the iMac G5.

Oh I can be sure that a Conroe placed in an iMac will run into the volume constraints and effective heat dissipation of the heat sink when compared to a full blown BTX tower.

The original G5 and the Rev. B stuck with the wonderful heat channel. The 17" models ran a lot hotter then the 20" due to the internal design and volume.

The Rev. C and Intel use similar internal layouts with the CPU and power supply toward the top of the machine.

Here is a good comparison.

 

[Josias]

I remember the rumors of iPod docks in the Mini before the last Mini release (February 28th). I though they were pretty ridicolous.

Anway's, a chance of X3000 now? That would rock!

 

[Eidorian]

I remember the rumors of iPod docks in the Mini before the last Mini release (February 28th). I though they were pretty ridicolous.

Anway's, a chance of X3000 now? That would rock!

Find me a mobile 965.

 

[Linito]

new old stuff

Hope the new mac minis have a new face... since the change to intel it's been all pretty much the same, the macbook pro and the mac pro are almost identical to the old ones

Come on apple get CREATIVE

 

[Multimedia]

MBP Need Black Anodized Aluminum Makeover • Mac Pro Is Already All New Look

Hope the new mac minis have a new face... since the change to intel it's been all pretty much the same, the macbook pro and the mac pro are almost identical to the old ones

Come on apple get CREATIVE

There is nothing "identical" between G5 PowerMacs and the Mac Pro. MPs have two optical drawers and additional USB2 and FW800 ports on the front and inside they are radically different. As for the perforated aluminum? I love it and hope they keep it that way forever. It has an important functionality to maximize air intake and provide some natural hot air disipation as well.

I agree the pro laptops need a black anodized aluminum makeover with an easy access HD bay like on the MacBook.

 

[reflex]

And Apple doesn't like to be selling historical artifacts any longer than they must

So that's why they stuck with G3s in iBooks for so long?

 

[isgoed]

Ah.... this speculation really brings back the memories of PowerPC rumors. Like when everyone was speculating if we see 3 Ghz G5's. I thought the feeling would be gone now we have intel (and its roadmaps), but debating on wether we might see a Core 2 Duo line-up soon brings the excitement right back. Hope this time the rumors do come true. This eventhough I am completely not in the market for a new Mac (neither was I for a 3 Ghz PowerMac )

Exactly so. For everyone's reference, here's a current Intel price chart (per CPU in lots of 1000): http://spamreaper.org/frankie/macintel.html

It makes certain options quite clear. For example:

• mini 1: replace Solo 1.50 with "OEM" Yonah 1.60 = $60 less.
• mini 2: replace Yonah 1.66 with Merom 1.66 = same price.
• iMac 1: replace Yonah 1.83 with Conroe 1.86 = $58 less.
• iMac 2: replace Yonah 2.00 with Conroe 2.13 = $70 less.
• all MacBooks: replace Yonah with Merom = same price.

Caveat: Merom is drop-in compatible with Yonah, but upgrading to Conroe would require a different mobo... which is also equal or lower in price to Yonah mobos.

Basically, if Apple doesn't update the entire product line ASAP, they're screwing over customers for no gain to themselves. Can you say "shareholder lawsuit"? I certainly hope someone is grumbling that phrase in Steve's vicinity.

You got some serious ideas frankie

I always thought they should lay a tiny screen on them for applications like these where it's purpose doesn't need to infinitely pliable.

Yeah I also had that idea. Given the number of people that use the mini as server or multimedia center that will be nice (Microsoft is already planning for giving mini-screen support in vista, so it is a good idea). I actually though about this to turn the mini into a laptop. Thus some kind of battery+Screen+keyboard add-on. This would truly emphasize the phrase BYOMKM (Bring your own Monitor Keyboard and mouse). But then again; a laptop would be much easier.

1cm higher? how? the thing is packed full with no gfx card, so-dimm and 2.5" HD. I think what you're describing is The Cube 2

Yeah you are quite right. It is predominantly the size of 3.5" hard disk that will hardly even fit in the total casing.

• 3.5" Hard disks are (4.00 x 5.75 x 1.00) inch.
• 2.5" Hard disks are (2.75 x 3.94 x 0.67) inch.

The original G4 mini had a dedicated graphics chip and full size SDRAM so that is not the problem. Maybe the Mini should get an external SATA port on the bottom. External SATA ports are becoming available for PC's so it might be an idea for the mini. This way makers of external hard disks like LaCie can offer a real high performance solution. The hard disk is now a serious bottleneck in the mini's performance as can be seen here (g4 mini benchmark) and a standard 3.5" disk would solve this. Particularly when loading applications and interface responsiveness (especially if you have not that much ram as how most people configure their mini which, to make things worse, also uses the ram as video memory).

Or just wait until Robson flash-harddisks will be included in Macs. This will make the performance better and eliminate the need for large and high data capacity hard disks. Since not many users will be able to fill a 250 GB harddisk, although they might want the performance of a 250 GB harddisk.

 

[AidenShaw]

That would be too *ugly* for Apple to even consider...

What I am really hoping is that there will be an add-on base module in a similar form factor to turn any Mini into a full-blown HD/Audio media centre.

A second white plastic box with some wires connected to a MiniMac for the media centre? That would be tacky...

Instead, I'd expect The New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Pizza-Box to be in a single black cabinet the size and shape of a DVD-player or other media component.

The would leave room for two 3.5" drives (1500 GB today), the TV tuner and compressors, and room for good cooling with some very quiet fans.

Would you expect anything less than great styling for the Apple media centre ?

 

[pigwin32]

I guess we're diverging from the actual rumour - new Mac Mini real soon.

I look at the existing Mac Mini, and your wish, and see too many $ signs!.

Perhaps our wishes require a range of options. Mac Media HD vs Mac Media. ;-)

I would be happy with FW800 although it would be hard to justify an immediate upgrade on that basis. It's annoying to have a FW800 raid device that can only operate at half speed. Of course esata would be nice but then I'd also have to upgrade my drive.

 

[50548]

A second white plastic box with some wires connected to a MiniMac for the media centre? That would be tacky...

Instead, I'd expect The New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Pizza-Box to be in a single black cabinet the size and shape of a DVD-player or other media component.

The would leave room for two 3.5" drives (1500 GB today), the TV tuner and compressors, and room for good cooling with some very quiet fans.

Would you expect anything less than great styling for the Apple media centre ?

And the mini tower Mac rumors live on...Mini Tower Mac = PowerBook G5...

 

[Bengt77]

Conroe iMac would be an imediate purchase from me.

Bingo! Bring on the iMac Ultra with Conroe, 23" display and a powerful GPU. Now that would be an immediate purchase for me.

 

[Bengt77]

7. iMacs will get:

Core 2 Duo E6700 - 2.67 GHz (4 MiB L2, 1066 MHz FSB) and
Core 2 Duo E6600 - 2.40 GHz (4 MiB L2, 1066 MHz FSB)

Man, that sounds good! I'll take one. To take away, please. Djeez, I am so ready for a new iMac!

 

[Multimedia]

Span the 23" iMac with another 23" Display For An Ultimate Desktop

Bingo! Bring on the iMac Ultra with Conroe, 23" display and a powerful GPU. Now that would be an immediate purchase for me.

Span that puppy with a second 23" Apple or 24" Dell Display and you have a fairly ultimate desktop. Better yet have Apple make the DVI Port Dual so you can span to a 30" Screen. Now that would be truly the ultimate iMac - Until they offer a 30" iMac.

 

[AidenShaw]

No, you want the MiniMac Ultra....

Bingo! Bring on the iMac Ultra with Conroe, 23" display and a powerful GPU. Now that would be an immediate purchase for me.

...also known as The New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Pizza-Box!

The problem with the all-in-one form factor of the iMacIntel is that when the LCD dies - you have a good computer that you can't use. And if the computer dies - you have a good screen that you can't use.

Or, more likely, when the computer is obsolete you have a good screen that you can't use.

Apple needs something between the horribly constrained MiniMac, and the preposterously huge ProMac.

A Conroe (64-bit, single-socket, dual-core) system would fit the bill.... When will The Steve see the light?

 

[twoodcc]

...also known as The New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Pizza-Box!

The problem with the all-in-one form factor of the iMacIntel is that when the LCD dies - you have a good computer that you can't use. And if the computer dies - you have a good screen that you can't use.

Or, more likely, when the computer is obsolete you have a good screen that you can't use.

Apple needs something between the horribly constrained MiniMac, and the preposterously huge ProMac.

A Conroe (64-bit, single-socket, dual-core) system would fit the bill.... When will The Steve see the light?

i agree.....when will they start listening to you?

 

[Macinposh]

Apple needs something between the horribly constrained MiniMac, and the preposterously huge ProMac.

A Conroe (64-bit, single-socket, dual-core) system would fit the bill....

Aiden,or others.

What do you think about the rumours that a single socket Conroe thanks to it´s superior memory handling effiency (~70%?) compared to Xeons DB-Dimm´s lousy (~25?) might crush a dual socket Xeon in memory intesive tasks, like photoshop.

Have you heard seen any data on that one,exept the specuatlion on Anandtech?
Any idea if the upcoming products (CS3 for example) might find a way to utilize the FB-Dims more efficiently, or is the problems so prevalent,that it cant be overcome with anything?

Because that might be the deathblow to the Pizza-Mac.


Apple definately wouldn want a cheaper/weaker product to equal or crush it´s workstations in any area. Let alone on one that is considered it is pride,DTP.


Anyone?

 

[50548]

...also known as The New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Pizza-Box!

The problem with the all-in-one form factor of the iMacIntel is that when the LCD dies - you have a good computer that you can't use. And if the computer dies - you have a good screen that you can't use.

Or, more likely, when the computer is obsolete you have a good screen that you can't use.

Apple needs something between the horribly constrained MiniMac, and the preposterously huge ProMac.

A Conroe (64-bit, single-socket, dual-core) system would fit the bill.... When will The Steve see the light?

A better question is: when does the LCD OR the computer die, especially in the case of Macs? I would say never...

 

[Manic Mouse]

Oh I can be sure that a Conroe placed in an iMac will run into the volume constraints and effective heat dissipation of the heat sink when compared to a full blown BTX tower.

The original G5 and the Rev. B stuck with the wonderful heat channel. The 17" models ran a lot hotter then the 20" due to the internal design and volume.

The Rev. C and Intel use similar internal layouts with the CPU and power supply toward the top of the machine.

Here is a good comparison.

Watch the WWDC keynote and note that the xserves now use Woodcrest which has a higher TDP than Conroe (95W compared to 65W). Also note what they say about Woodcrest having a better thermal environment that the G5's they were using before which were the same G5's (non-dual core) that the iMac used I believe. Conroe has better thermal characteristics than G5's, the Mac Pro and xserve prove that.

iMac will get Conroe. 2.4Ghz and 2.66Ghz. Conroe is the best value for performance processor that Intel are offering, so they need to use it SOMEWHERE in their lineup.

 

[AidenShaw]

A better question is: when does the LCD OR the computer die, especially in the case of Macs? I would say never...

Mr. Lawyer, there are several people on this thread who would beg to differ with your opinion about the immortality of Apples....

And, by the way, I did say "Or, more likely, when the computer is obsolete you have a good screen that you can't use." - so I clearly wasn't suggesting that LCD or system failures were that common.

 

[50548]

Mr. Lawyer, there are several people on this thread who would beg to differ with you....

Well, that thread is about purported Apple support problems...Olsen's Asymmetry teaches us that small groups with special interests tend to scream louder...

I had a whining problem with my first Rev. A iMac G5 and Apple gave me a new one after verifying my case...Apple is the best in support for several years in a row...so we don't have to worry, we still have the best service in the industry...

But to say that LCD and computers "die"? Nonsense for Apple computers, really...I've never seen such cases, and I am sure my old iBook G3 is a 1000x more reliable than a brand-spanking new Dull.

We demand so much more than other users that even 2 dead pixels on a screen are cause for alarm...