turbineseaplane
macrumors Penryn
Right?
Isn't this insanity that folks are suggesting "docks and dongles" as a great solution for a desktop computer?
It's nuts
We've gone full Stockholm Syndrome around here
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
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Mac Mini to Lose Its USB-A Ports Later This Year
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Right?
Isn't this insanity that folks are suggesting "docks and dongles" as a great solution for a desktop computer?
It's nuts
We've gone full Stockholm Syndrome around here
joecomo
macrumors 65816
that is what I currently have - eats up one thunderbolt port
AppliedMicro
macrumors 68040
I don‘t they‘re going to cut costs on the new M4 Mac Mini.
(I mean, not more than they’ve been doing for years, offering 256/8 memory configurations)
This time, and coinciding with a redesign, I firmly believe Timmy is going to rise prices, instead of cutting costs.
👉 $699 U.S. minimum. Prepare for that.
I also wouldn‘t be surprised if they keep around the previous generation entry-level config, for price framing purposes.
turbineseaplane
macrumors Penryn
Frantisekj
macrumors 65816
Exactly. That is one way how electronic waste is created.
I do not think we are at such hurry and space constrain they need to do it now.
Because it looks cool! If you're questioning the aesthetics of computers, you're on the wrong forum 😉
If its an 'iPad Pro in a box' I wonder if they'll offer a cheaper model with iPadOS and a more expensive one with MacOS?
I could go for an iPadOS desktop for £299. They'd sell a shedload of them.
I could go for an iPadOS desktop for £299. They'd sell a shedload of them.
mcs37
macrumors regular
Yay! Death to USB-A! Long live USB-C all the way. We can use dongles until our peripherals catch up.
I'd be genuinely interested to know what 8+ devices people have plugged into their computers. This isn't a knock, I know some people still need plenty of peripherals. It could be in a workshop plugged into all sorts of CAM equipment.
mcs37
macrumors regular
Yeah I agree, I tried to find a 100% USB-C hub and the max I can find are like 4 ports. I can't find a 16-port USB-C hub anywhere!
mcs37
macrumors regular
I have around 10 devices plugged in at any given time. The only ones I have left that are USB-A are keyboard and mouse. There are some USB-C mouses out there but none made by Razer etc. They are always some crap Chinese brand.
Has anybody else heard that Gurman stated that the Mac Mini M4 is starting to ship this month, and M4 Pro next month? To me this means they will announce it next week, at least the base model.
I have six USB ports on my 2017 iMac and six on my M2 mini. I don't know if other Macs possibly have more ports.
So, just for fun, I listed all the things I have attached to my M2 Pro mini:
LG 4K Monitor (USB-C)
External SSD for Backups (USB-C)
Yubikey (USB-C)
Fujitsu Scanner (USB-A)
SD Card reader (USB-A)
Sometimes SanDisk thumb drive (can do USB-C and A)
Sometimes a Lightning to USB-A cable for backing up my iPhone and iPad, though I'm trialling if Wi-Fi is stable enough.
Occasionally USB-to-Serial cable for programming ESPs for my smart home.
No, a real Power Supply adapter like Apple's M1 Ethernet Power Brick (https://techcrunch.com/2021/04/20/the-m1-imacs-power-supply-sports-magnetic-connector-ethernet-port/) but instead of the magnetic connector, the Power Brick would have a USB-C connector where a USB-C cable would connect to the Apple computer like an iMac, a MacMini, MacBookPro, MacBook Air, etc and suply power and data (from the ethernet connection).
The advantage would be to have a product compatible with multiple Apple computers while at the same time be purchased separately by anyone who needs ethernet connection and charge at the same time
Only if you choose to make it look like a mess. Mine is not.
I have a Mac Studio that drives four displays (one Studio Display and three large LG displays for X-Plane canted to wrap around), a four bay disk drive chassis (one USB-C cable), a Fujitsu ScanSnap scanner, a yoke and a throttle quadrant for X-Plane (USB), and a wireless keyboard and mouse. And an El Gato Stream Deck 32 key (each key can be have it's own programmable color graphic and function) controller I use for X-Plane).
No cables are in the way or cluttering as they all take a straight shot to the back of my two desks.
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It's going tp be a while before USB-A goes away totally, and even longer before every new peripheral actually uses 20/40Gbps USB4 or TB4 and won't work perfectly well from a USB-A port.
As I said, I'm not particularly concerned if USB-A and other "legacy" ports get swapped out for the same number of USB-C ports - the problem is when USB-A, Ethernet, HDMI, power etc. ports just disappear and everything that used to have a dedicated port has to go through a handful of USB-C ports,
Except that is still a "downgrade" from having enough ports on your desktop machine for your needs. First - lots of extra boxes, wires and probably wall-warts. Second - more to go wrong. Third - splitting a port 4 ways doesn't give you 4 times the bandwidth.
What's the point of making a Mini extra small if it means you just need more external boxes?
I also suspect that a lot of people don't really understand how USB 2/3 work with USB-C. If you plug 4 USB 3 (whether its A or C) devices into a TB4 hub they're not sharing 20Gbps of TB4 bandwidth - they're sharing 5Gbps via a hub - it's actually no different to plugging 4 USB 3 devices into an old-school USB hub - with the same potential latency and compatibility issues, (I'm aware of one TB3-to-USBA product that actually has 3 PCIe controllers to give you 4 top-tier USB-3 ports - a few TB3 docks have internal host controllers, but typically driving internal hubs and shared between various interfaces, SD slots etc. - but the 'USB4/TB4' way is to use USB tunnelling to connect a USB 2/3 hub to the computer's internal USB controller). Same with USB 2 devices - everything on the hub is sharing just 480mbps of bandwidth. TB4/USB4 hubs only give an advantage if you're going to run actual TB/USB4 or DisplayPort devices alongside your USB ones.
I've got plenty of USB devices where #1 in the troubleshooting guide is "try connecting directly to the computer without a hub".
One of the problems with USB-C is that it didn't really make things better for USB2/3 devices, and actual 20Gbps devices still carry a hefty premium - you just got to buy new dongles and cables. Plus, unlike the bad old days of RS232->USB 1 -> USB1.1 -> USB 2, USB 2 and 3 are increasingly fast enough for many purposes.
It doesn't matter what the connector/cable on the SSD enclosure is - all but the highest-end SSDs and multi-device enclosures use USB 3.1 protocol and will work just as well on a USB-A host port (the only snag on Macs is that Apple doesn't support 10Gbps over USB-A, but that's either Apple's choice or down to a lack of I/O lines from the processor).
USB-C ports are becoming popular on peripherals because... well, you know what a Micro-B USB 3 connector is like - but it's still the same old USB 2/3 protocol and, unless it was from a manufacturer that only targets the Mac market, betcha it came with a USB-A cable or adapter in the box.
Personally, I still use spinning rust external drives for additional backups/archiving - and there's no point having anything better than USB 3.0 on those - but it is useful to have a free port from them.
There are a lot of current low/mid-end "prosumer" audio production equipment, instruments etc. that only use USB 2 (a CD-quality audio stream is only about 1.5mbps - so USB 2's 480mbps is plenty and will happily run a 16 channel audio interface) - in fact, MIDI-over-USB only needs USB version 1... Implementing USB 3 (let alone USB4) would be a waste of money, and USB 3 can also cause radio interference issues. What these devices do like is - wherever possible - being connected directly to the host and not via a hub (Example - has USB-C port but comes with USB-A cable).
Which is probably why the market is flooded with hubs/docks that are purely designed to give people their old ports back.
Also, don't forget that Apple pulled a U-turn and brought back the MagSafe, HDMI and SD card slots on the MacBook Pro. This isn't just about losing USB-A, it's about being forced to use fewer ports.
It's also interesting that, since the all-USB-C MacBook Pro was launched, only one desktop product has gone down the all-USB-C route (the 24" iMac) and everything else (5k iMac, iMac Pro, Mac Pro, Mac Studio, Mac Mini) has kept it's USB-A, Ethernet (and HDMI, SD where they were there to start with) ports.
This rumour is good in one respect - it keeps the internal PSU, HDMI and Ethernet. Front-mounted ports are nice... except they come at the expense of rear ports. Now, personally, I'd keep the front port for things that I regularly plug/unplug like memory sticks or secondary backup drives, and keep permanently connected stuff plugged in at the back with the cables out of sight. Unfortunately, the reasoning here seems "we want to make it smaller because form-over-function so two of the existing ports have to move to the front"...
turbineseaplane
macrumors Penryn
USB-A can do USB 3.2 gen 2 @ 10Gbps - Apple don't implement it but its common on PCs and devices like the Caldigit Element Hub. However, USB 3.2 gen2x2 20Gbps works by using the extra pairs of wires provided by USB-C to send two 10Gbps signals in parallels. The USB 3 Type-A connector just doesn't have enough pins for that - and the USB IF certainly aren't likely to produce a new Type-A design with extra pins now USB-C is out.
OTOH, I don't think the USB 3.2 x2 modes were widely adopted, and are unlikely to be a growth area now USB4 is out and USB4v2 is in the pipeline.
Adora
macrumors 68020
Even my two small flashlights, I bought recently seem to have enough space for a USB-C and a USB-A port at the same time, just for charging.
Also the battery can be replaced with an included adapter shaped like the original battery where you can put in standard AA batteries, rechargeable or not.
By the way, is USB-A theoretically able to deliver USB 4.0 speeds if there were any devices and/or cables available? They are not even available für USB-C, it's always Thunderbolt when faster then 3.1 Gen. 2 or 3.2 Gen. 2.
Also the battery can be replaced with an included adapter shaped like the original battery where you can put in standard AA batteries, rechargeable or not.
By the way, is USB-A theoretically able to deliver USB 4.0 speeds if there were any devices and/or cables available? They are not even available für USB-C, it's always Thunderbolt when faster then 3.1 Gen. 2 or 3.2 Gen. 2.
Adora
macrumors 68020
Here is a simple solution for you so that your legacy gear doesn't have to hold up the technological advancement of all of our computers (only $5.99 for three):
USB C to USB Adapter 3-Pack USB C Male to USB 3.0 Female Adapter Compatibllity for iMac 2021 for iPad Pro 2021 for MacBook Pro 2020 for MacBook Air 2020 and Other Type C or Thunderbolt 3 Devices gray
USB C to USB Adapter 3-Pack USB C Male to USB 3.0 Female Adapter Compatibllity for iMac 2021 for iPad Pro 2021 for MacBook Pro 2020 for MacBook Air 2020 and Other Type C or Thunderbolt 3 Devices gray
www.amazon.com
...until the USB-C part falls apart on the first day of use because you just moved it a little too much.
Never in my life a USB-A plug or port got damaged, same for lighning. USB-C is breaking all the time if you aren't very careful with them. Even the ports can deform after a while, so you can't put anything in anymore, what happened to two of my TB3 ports on a MBP.
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JosephAW
macrumors 604
Thanks for the info, maybe you can point me to a forum where I could do these on my new M2 Mac and run the older software and access the files through maybe a shared folder.
Anyone complaining about this needs to get with the times. Laptops having USB A is holding up adoption. Enough is enough.
I couldn’t agree more. The day when I never see a USB-A plug or port again can’t come soon enough.
ric22
Suspended
No damaged USB-C ports or cables here yet, but I've had a bunch of USB-A ports that became faulty... in fact 100% of my personal use Macs have ended up with exclusively faulty USB-A ports 🤯 (errors transferring data- they'd work for a bit but then screw up. They killed an expensive SSD and a flash drive about 5 years ago. Only ever had one USB-A failure on a Windows desktop.