Mac Mini to replace classic Mac Pro?

[honestone33]

My experiences so far with the 3 Ghz Core Intel Core i5 processor in my 2018 Mac Mini (with a 256 gig SSD and 8 gig of Ram) are a definite plus! I had been using a late 2012 Mac Mini with a Core i7 processor, along with a Samsung 840 Pro 256 gig SSD and 8 gig of Ram, but this newer Mac Mini is noticeably faster. The specific designation for the internal SSD is "APPLE SSD AP0256M", but I cannot tell which company makes it. Does anyone know? Also, how does it compare to the newer, similar ones from Samsung?

 

[bsbeamer]

Does it happen on newer cards too?

Does NOT happen with RX 5700/5700XT and reports specifically stating that on several forums. It's specific to those GPUs listed above by Sonnet at the moment. The HDMI headless adapter fix is cheap and works to "solve" this issue without manual intervention.

https://www.sonnettech.com/support/downloads/manuals/Compatibility_Graphics_Cards.pdf

 

[Toonartist]

No, same as yours, just the TB3 port. It is the little 80mm fan in the PSU that makes all the noise. My office is otherwise silent and the GPU fans are inaudible unless I start some game or heavy GPU process so it is very noticeable to me.

The black screen thing is an annoyance. I connect the HDMI from the mini to one of the monitors and unplug the eGPU before a reboot. Most of the time it just sleeps, I very rarely shut it down but I’d still like apple to fix this. Does it happen on newer cards too?

You can use a Headless HDMI plug in the mini and have the other monitors attached to the eGPU. The monitors will stay off right up to the point of entering the password but it does mean you no longer have to use the GPU on the Mac mini's CPU.

When first setting up, turn on the computer without the Headless plug installed. Once booted up, unplug any HDMI cable that is plugged directly into the mini. Plug both your monitors into the eGPU and then plug in the Headless Plug.

Then go into System Preferences - Displays - Arranging Screens. Press the Alt/Option key then select the Headless HDMI monitor (1080 res) and drag and release it on top of the one of the actual monitors. This will make the headless plug mirror that monitor... This stops your cursor disappearing off onto a screen that doesn't exist.

When you boot up, the screens will appear like they are dead but just wait, once it reaches the point of entering the password both monitors will start up.

 

[sporadic]

Interesting, thanks all, but I read that as my excuse to get an RX 5700XT

 

[bsbeamer]

Interesting, thanks all, but I read that as my excuse to get an RX 5700XT

I've been testing an RX 5700 XT in eGPU with MBP16,1. If you rely on METAL at all, wait for 10.15.4+. The AMD 5XXX drivers are just not that good right now. Should improve when W5700X for MP7,1 is released.

 

[Krevnik]

So, mostly just wanted to add that I’ve been “test driving” this Mini + eGPU setup for about 6 months, and I honestly am not sure it was worth it.

And honestly it comes down to the iGPU just not giving enough oomph for my workflow at home, while the eGPU has been something I have to just occasionally stop using for a while to have a stable system. It’s not the “just works” that I had with the iMac. But I also need to remain headless, putting me over a barrel. That GPU is the Achilles heel.

I’d say the more dependent on Metal your workflow is, the harder it will be to use a Mac Mini, because of the general bugs around eGPUs, unless the eGPU isn’t driving a display. Maybe Apple will fix it in the next 3 years, but at least for now, it’s looking like I should do what I did in 2008: go with the Mac Pro, run it for 7 years, and enjoy the ability to put what I want in it down the road.

But for things like app development, office productivity, and yes even some graphics work, it is completely able to replace a cMP. It’s no push over.

 

[sublunar]

So, mostly just wanted to add that I’ve been “test driving” this Mini + eGPU setup for about 6 months, and I honestly am not sure it was worth it.

And honestly it comes down to the iGPU just not giving enough oomph for my workflow at home, while the eGPU has been something I have to just occasionally stop using for a while to have a stable system. It’s not the “just works” that I had with the iMac. But I also need to remain headless, putting me over a barrel. That GPU is the Achilles heel.

I’d say the more dependent on Metal your workflow is, the harder it will be to use a Mac Mini, because of the general bugs around eGPUs, unless the eGPU isn’t driving a display. Maybe Apple will fix it in the next 3 years, but at least for now, it’s looking like I should do what I did in 2008: go with the Mac Pro, run it for 7 years, and enjoy the ability to put what I want in it down the road.

But for things like app development, office productivity, and yes even some graphics work, it is completely able to replace a cMP. It’s no push over.

Would it have been worth it if you were lugging a MacBook Pro around though?

I'm not sure the price premium required to add a GPU to a Mac is worth applying to the current Mac mini ahead of an iMac.

As you say, the software issues could get annoying, especially if you are not a mobile user and could have purchased an iMac instead. Obviously the screen from an iMac isn't to everyone's choice though.

 

[bsbeamer]

Issue for many is if you want a high performing modern Core i9 CPU, you're "stuck" with an iMac as your only desktop based option. Unless Apple is releasing new MacMini models along side the new/rumored iMacs with nearly identical specs (minus the monitor and maybe minus the dGPU), this trend will continue.

 

[sublunar]

Issue for many is if you want a high performing modern Core i9 CPU, you're "stuck" with an iMac as your only desktop based option. Unless Apple is releasing new MacMini models along side the new/rumored iMacs with nearly identical specs (minus the monitor and maybe minus the dGPU), this trend will continue.

Changing the Mac mini at the same time as the iMac suggests the Coffee Lake CPUs may be getting discontinued within a couple of years - and would look awful if allowed to continue. The Mac mini can use a subset of the rumoured available Comet Lake S CPUs if Apple were doing a very vanilla update.

 

[Krevnik]

Would it have been worth it if you were lugging a MacBook Pro around though?

I'm not sure the price premium required to add a GPU to a Mac is worth applying to the current Mac mini ahead of an iMac.

As you say, the software issues could get annoying, especially if you are not a mobile user and could have purchased an iMac instead. Obviously the screen from an iMac isn't to everyone's choice though.

If you can have an AIO, the iMac is probably the better cMP replacement IMO. But if you can’t (or refuse) to make an iMac fit your workspace, things get messy.

My problem is that I pretty much need to have a KVM setup for my computing needs to fit my workspace. So that rules out the iMac, sadly, since they killed target display mode with the 5K. The 5K iMac is probably my favorite machine Apple makes right now though.

The MacBook Pro is good for portability, but it’s the noisiest thing Apple makes if you actually load it down, which is disappointing.

The pricing on the 2019 Mac Pros really makes the lack of a non-AIO more glaring than it was back in 2008. It’s also probably my last choice for a new Mac. But I’ve exhausted the other options at this point. :/

 

[watakoola]

I thought I should lob back in with the latest about my mini to keep sigmadog (original poster) in the loop.

I’ve tried multiple display cable combinations attempting to stop the fan going nuts on my OWC Mercury Helios FX650 eGPU. Some days it works fine – no fan going berserk. On one occasion I actually enjoyed two days in a row of perfect, silent bliss. Then, the next day the fan randomly started up and soon ramped to escape-velocity speed. On a few occasions the fan has slowed itself down and resumed normal duties(!), but most of the time I put the mini to sleep and hope a wake-up will solve it. A wake-up works…sometimes.

I decided to try a HDMI (from the mini) to DVI cable direct to my main monitor, with only my second monitor powered by the eGPU via a Thunderbolt 3 to DVI cable. As a nice bonus I now get a boot screen and progress bar.

But… wait for it... in FOUR days the FX650 fan has not ONCE ramped up! Silence. Bliss.

So, I’m happy enough to tolerate this until Apple/OWC come up with a solution to the mini/eGPU issue/s.

I’m not using the mini in production but, I have to say, it is a very, amazingly fast computer. It blows my old Mac Pro to the weeds. I’m only running 8Gb RAM doing some intensive database work with multiple applications open in the background and it isn’t stressing the RAM ceiling at all. I have most of my apps set to “prefer External GPU” so maybe that is helping(?)

Now that I know the HDMI port on the mini works as expected I can chuck the 32Gb RAM I purchased into it.

Sigmadog, this little machine is certainly a beast and I think you would be happy with one once the eGPU nonsense is finally resolved.

 

[sigmadog]

I thought I should lob back in with the latest about my mini to keep sigmadog (original poster) in the loop.

I’ve tried multiple display cable combinations attempting to stop the fan going nuts on my OWC Mercury Helios FX650 eGPU. Some days it works fine – no fan going berserk. On one occasion I actually enjoyed two days in a row of perfect, silent bliss. Then, the next day the fan randomly started up and soon ramped to escape-velocity speed. On a few occasions the fan has slowed itself down and resumed normal duties(!), but most of the time I put the mini to sleep and hope a wake-up will solve it. A wake-up works…sometimes.

I decided to try a HDMI (from the mini) to DVI cable direct to my main monitor, with only my second monitor powered by the eGPU via a Thunderbolt 3 to DVI cable. As a nice bonus I now get a boot screen and progress bar.

But… wait for it... in FOUR days the FX650 fan has not ONCE ramped up! Silence. Bliss.

So, I’m happy enough to tolerate this until Apple/OWC come up with a solution to the mini/eGPU issue/s.

I’m not using the mini in production but, I have to say, it is a very, amazingly fast computer. It blows my old Mac Pro to the weeds. I’m only running 8Gb RAM doing some intensive database work with multiple applications open in the background and it isn’t stressing the RAM ceiling at all. I have most of my apps set to “prefer External GPU” so maybe that is helping(?)

Now that I know the HDMI port on the mini works as expected I can chuck the 32Gb RAM I purchased into it.

Sigmadog, this little machine is certainly a beast and I think you would be happy with one once the eGPU nonsense is finally resolved.

Thanks for the detailed report, Watakoola. Great to hear you've resolved the issue of eGPU fan noise. That would drive me nuts!

I hate to disappoint everyone on this thread, but I ended up going with… a 6,1 TRASHCAN!

Nothing against the mini. I was ready to buy a top-end mini, upgrade the RAM myself, add an eGPU with a decent card, and an external Thunderbolt SSD as backup.

I think I would have made it work just fine, but there were a couple issues that didn't thrill me:

1. The ongoing eGPU issues. It may have worked fine for me, but if not, I did not want to be forced to sort out a problem created by using Apple recommended hardware that Apple should have sorted out prior to making said recommendation.
2. Adding another external box (the eGPU) didn't thrill me as I'm very low on outlet capacity as it is, and adding another plug and humming box wasn't ideal.
3. Portability. I am starting to do more trade shows hawking my wares, and part of my exhibit involves doing digital painting live using my Cintiq mirrored to a standard monitor. I didn't want the hassle of setting up an eGPU along with my computer (especially if there were issues). The 6,1 is completely self-contained in this regard, making my trade show life much easier. And there's no denying it looks cool in the exhibit.
4. Cost. The mini + RAM + eGPU + external SSD cost was right in the $2500 (US) range. I picked up a 12-core 6,1 / D300 / 64GB RAM / 1TB trashcan for under $1900, a savings of $600 for a system that is more than capable for my needs. Money is very tight, and now that we're all fighting the Kung Flu by killing our economy in order to save it, that saved money has taken on greater importance.

Note that I am not saying the 6,1 is a better system than the mini. I have no idea whether that's true or not, and I don't particularly care. What I needed was a system that fulfilled my modest needs, was portable and self-contained, for a decent price.

How long will this system last me? I'm shooting for 3-4 years, and I think that's reasonable. I don't have a problem sticking with an operating system past it's prime in order to milk a few more years out of unsupported hardware (should that happen).

Who knows, in 4 years, maybe Apple will pull it's head out and solve all the mini issues and put out an even better system that will entice me to make the jump.

Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. Even though I went against your sincere and prudent advice, I am grateful for your input nevertheless.

- steve

 

[watakoola]

Thanks for the detailed report, Watakoola. Great to hear you've resolved the issue of eGPU fan noise. That would drive me nuts!

I hate to disappoint everyone on this thread, but I ended up going with… a 6,1 TRASHCAN!

Nothing against the mini. I was ready to buy a top-end mini, upgrade the RAM myself, add an eGPU with a decent card, and an external Thunderbolt SSD as backup.

I think I would have made it work just fine, but there were a couple issues that didn't thrill me:

1. The ongoing eGPU issues. It may have worked fine for me, but if not, I did not want to be forced to sort out a problem created by using Apple recommended hardware that Apple should have sorted out prior to making said recommendation.
2. Adding another external box (the eGPU) didn't thrill me as I'm very low on outlet capacity as it is, and adding another plug and humming box wasn't ideal.
3. Portability. I am starting to do more trade shows hawking my wares, and part of my exhibit involves doing digital painting live using my Cintiq mirrored to a standard monitor. I didn't want the hassle of setting up an eGPU along with my computer (especially if there were issues). The 6,1 is completely self-contained in this regard, making my trade show life much easier. And there's no denying it looks cool in the exhibit.
4. Cost. The mini + RAM + eGPU + external SSD cost was right in the $2500 (US) range. I picked up a 12-core 6,1 / D300 / 64GB RAM / 1TB trashcan for under $1900, a savings of $600 for a system that is more than capable for my needs. Money is very tight, and now that we're all fighting the Kung Flu by killing our economy in order to save it, that saved money has taken on greater importance.

Note that I am not saying the 6,1 is a better system than the mini. I have no idea whether that's true or not, and I don't particularly care. What I needed was a system that fulfilled my modest needs, was portable and self-contained, for a decent price.

How long will this system last me? I'm shooting for 3-4 years, and I think that's reasonable. I don't have a problem sticking with an operating system past it's prime in order to milk a few more years out of unsupported hardware (should that happen).

Who knows, in 4 years, maybe Apple will pull it's head out and solve all the mini issues and put out an even better system that will entice me to make the jump.

Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. Even though I went against your sincere and prudent advice, I am grateful for your input nevertheless.

- steve

No disappointment from this end.
As always, a buyer must make a decision based on their needs. Now that we know you need portability it makes sense to go with the trash can.
Best of luck for your ventures!

 

[Decoy205]

I went with the mini as an upgrade from my Mac Pro 3,1. So far so good. I’m doing audio mostly not graphics. I picked up the new ssl2 interface and it worked right outta the box. I wouldve loves the new Mac Pro but Pretty happy so far.

 

[honestone33]

Well, Apple announced an "upgrade" for the late 2018 Mac Mini:

Mac mini FAQ: What you need to know about Apple’s smallest desktop Mac

Apple issued an update to its most affordable Mac by offering a new networking option.

www.macworld.com

Unfortunately, at least for folks who desire/need other enhancements, it basically only lowers the price for storage. On February 1st, when I purchased my late 2018 Core I-5 model with a 256 gig SSD and 8 gig of RAM, I did save some money in 2 ways: 1) purchased it in Oregon, which has no sales tax, and 2) Best Buy did a price match with Amazon, saving me an additional $70. So, I got that machine for $1,029, total (that does not include me selling my late 2012 model, and a $150 "gift" by opening up a new credit card with no yearly fee).

The machine is a pleasure to use. If I had waited until now, I suspect the cost would almost be the same, as I have not (nor do I plan to) gone to Oregon.

 

[Spectrum]

Thanks for the detailed report, Watakoola. Great to hear you've resolved the issue of eGPU fan noise. That would drive me nuts!

I hate to disappoint everyone on this thread, but I ended up going with… a 6,1 TRASHCAN!

Nothing against the mini. I was ready to buy a top-end mini, upgrade the RAM myself, add an eGPU with a decent card, and an external Thunderbolt SSD as backup.

I think I would have made it work just fine, but there were a couple issues that didn't thrill me:

1. The ongoing eGPU issues. It may have worked fine for me, but if not, I did not want to be forced to sort out a problem created by using Apple recommended hardware that Apple should have sorted out prior to making said recommendation.
2. Adding another external box (the eGPU) didn't thrill me as I'm very low on outlet capacity as it is, and adding another plug and humming box wasn't ideal.
3. Portability. I am starting to do more trade shows hawking my wares, and part of my exhibit involves doing digital painting live using my Cintiq mirrored to a standard monitor. I didn't want the hassle of setting up an eGPU along with my computer (especially if there were issues). The 6,1 is completely self-contained in this regard, making my trade show life much easier. And there's no denying it looks cool in the exhibit.
4. Cost. The mini + RAM + eGPU + external SSD cost was right in the $2500 (US) range. I picked up a 12-core 6,1 / D300 / 64GB RAM / 1TB trashcan for under $1900, a savings of $600 for a system that is more than capable for my needs. Money is very tight, and now that we're all fighting the Kung Flu by killing our economy in order to save it, that saved money has taken on greater importance.

Note that I am not saying the 6,1 is a better system than the mini. I have no idea whether that's true or not, and I don't particularly care. What I needed was a system that fulfilled my modest needs, was portable and self-contained, for a decent price.

How long will this system last me? I'm shooting for 3-4 years, and I think that's reasonable. I don't have a problem sticking with an operating system past it's prime in order to milk a few more years out of unsupported hardware (should that happen).

Who knows, in 4 years, maybe Apple will pull it's head out and solve all the mini issues and put out an even better system that will entice me to make the jump.

Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. Even though I went against your sincere and prudent advice, I am grateful for your input nevertheless.

- steve

Sounds perfect for your needs! A 12-core for that price range is rather outstanding.

 

[B-RadU2fan]

I ordered one from Amazon and it arrived today.

And it solved my problem.

My set up, a 2018 Mac mini i7, 500 GB, 32 GB RAM. I have a Razor Core X eGPU with a Sapphire Pulse RX 580 GPU that I took out of my 2010 MacPro when I transitioned to the Mini. I have two ancient Apple monitors, a Cinema Display and a Cinema Display HD (I said they were ancient) connected to the RX 580.

When I first hooked everything up I had the black screen issue. I solved it by using a Luna Display with my old iPad Air. Sort of. I did not have to connect a monitor directly to the Mini, but I had to boot up with the eGPU turned off. And once the Mac desktop appeared on the iPad I could turn the eGPU on. Better than plugging-unplugging cables, but still non-optimal.

With the display emulator plug I can leave the eGPU plugged in and turned on. And the monitors come on when the Mini boots up. Yes I agree I shouldn't have to do this. But as another member says, use what works. And for $7 US I'll take it.

There was a bit of configuration I needed to do to make things work. When I first booted up the plug was seen as the main monitor. And I had no menu bar or dock. I fixed that by hot removing the plug, setting each "Displays have separate Spaces" to checked in the Mission Control system preference panel, which gives a menu bar and dock on each monitor. I plugged the plug back in and rebooted (the preference change requires a log out). Once rebooted I set the monitor arrangement in the Displays system preference panel such that the plug 'monitor' was monitor # 3. I then turned off "Displays have separate space" setting and rebooted. And so far it 'just works'.

Thanks for this info! I have ordered my plug for a neater solution. I have a mac mini 2018 with Razer Core X and MSI Radeon Vega 56. Using 2 ultrawide LG monitors. I solved this issue by plugging in a HDMI cord from Monitor 1 to the HDMI on the Mac mini and restarting (so monitor 1 now has two cables, one going to the Razer Core X from display port and one going from HDMI1 to the mac mini). It restarted and assigned the HDMI as monitor 1 so I had to login blindly and then simply rearrange my monitors so the login screen came up as number 1. So the HDMI is now number 3 and is basically blind. I was curious to see if I took a hit on my Heaven benchmark. It went from a score 1681 to 1664, so pretty much negligible. You all on this discussion have been a big help. I just set this new system up a few weeks ago and was having a sour feeling in the pit of my stomach after investing so much time and money into creating my dream set up when I couldn't even do a proper restart. You know when you get a system and have to install a bunch of software...I researched everything for weeks and missed this issue. Thank you all for the great advice!