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Mac mini update?

Brianus:
You're right, the 'e' in eMac does stand for 'education" as far as I know too. Although being a student personally, and all the other students I know either owning a mac or considoring purchasing one rather have a mac mini then a eMac. Well that is if they don't have the budget for a better desktop or arn't getting a laptop (which most do). Personally I don't know a single person who owns a eMac so although its aimed at education I'd expect it to make a larger buzz for students (especially college students like my peers and myself). Not to mention, if anyone can buy a eMac - doesn't necessarily need to be aimed at education buyers anymore (especially with the education discount apple offers on all their macs). All in all, the eMac although standing for education isn't necessary for education, the mac mini can do everything most students need it to (given a bump in RAM just to keep things smooth, and also personal preference). Even at our campus' computer labs, there's a wealth of PowerMacs although not a eMac to be found. Which is nice of course! So what if there's a 'e' in the eMacs name standing for education, not necessary. The mac mini could be for education just as easily I'd say! or a low-end iMac like I was suggesting for around a grand could be good for education! More specifically, I myself got a Mac Mini for education, one of my friends got a refurb. dual 1 ghz G4 PowerMac, another friend got a 1.25 ghz G4 iMac, a couple got 14" iBooks, and one got a 12" iBook, and a few others got some other type of mac in their posession. None I know though have a eMac so its missing its target audience sorely among students I know... I say throw out the eMac, put a silent 'e' on the Mac Mini and rev it up a little in Rev. B update and let it serve both the eMac crowd and the PC-switcher crowd and the budget crowd etc. There's a lot this little beast can do if Apple lets it in a Rev. B update and keeping with current price points (imagine the price of the 1.25 current mac mini after such a update, it's price would drop to maybe 400-450 dollars on Apple's sale page! even better). Maybe its just me but I don't think what the eMac's suppose to be is necessary. A updated mac mini could serve education purposes, consumer purposes etc. And as for a simple and affordable all-in-one machine, that's why I suggested the possibility of one more lower end iMac for around 999 (current price of the high end eMac) and a lower price apple monitor (CRT or ACD) to be affordibly bundled with the mac mini (and a affordable bundle for mouse/keyboard for those who want them, wired together its about 50 bucks these days - not too bad). If they sold just the 17" CRT for 100-150 bucks, the keyboard+mouse for 50 bucks and updated the mac mini 600 dollar model in areas that would be possible and the eMac has it beat (I'm thinking more video card on this one I guess since hard drive couldn't go much higher then 100 gb and superdrive probably not dual-layered... yet!) then for the same 800 dollars of the low end eMac you could get (what I considor) a better system with option to update your monitor from the cheap-o CRT to a ACD or LCD or what-not! *Phew* sorry, got carried away. But I know what you mean brianus and understand, but doesn't necessarily mean I agree with apples take on it. But thanks for posing the point - I knew it was only a matter of time until someone took the 'e' meaning out of eMac. By the way, just curious, what kind of mac/PC you cruisin' on? Just curious, I'm humbly rockin' and lovin' my mac mini :cool:

SiliconAddict:
How much did that 1920x1200 screen cost and what kind/brand is it? Just curious, I wouldn't mind having a screen with that kind of resolution! Anyways, back on topic. Using a mini with a screen of that resolution seems weird to me, if I had a screen that nice and was getting a mac - I don't see why I'd go any less than a PowerMac. Although I guess since they took out the single processor 1.8 version there's not really a low-end version on the market. Although none the less if I were you I'd look elsewhere to see if any place has some warehoused or even refurbished PowerMac 1.8 G5's for a good price, it sounds like you know what you're doing with computers so you could upgrade what you wanted (RAM and such) for cheap doing it yourself. On that note, you'd get the system it sounds like you want (and even maybe more) for the same price as a mac mini CTO with some of the features you're hoping for in it's Rev. B or updated version. If not, I guess keep waiting and hope for the best in September (I think that's the new "possible" rumor/speculation date). Either way, here's to hoping for a Mac Mini update that keeps its low price point and incorporates as many new features as affordably possible for Apple to include this fall/winter/whenever for you and your friends. Cheers! :D
 
As a long time PC and Mac user (Mac since 1984... PC since 1985), I had no issues switching from the PC (AMD Duron 1.5Ghz) to the Mac mini.

I do wish there were more VRAM and it would be nice to have 2gb of RAM so I can keep my Virtual PC open with all of the other stuff I run on the Mac.

I wasn't a gamer or a big time power user... just liked to use easy to moderate tools (Word, Photoshop) and use the machine for music, watching videos, web site development and various other tasks, including email and web.

I've really grown to like the mini and I think most PC users that aren't hardcore gamers or have heavy duty needs (ie. edit videos) should feel comfortable with the mini.

I'm anxious to see if there are going to be any updates.... the 11th have come and gone and I wonder if there will be any sort of announcement soon for us wondering what's next on Apple's update list.
 
I agree chilly for the most part (as I have mentioned a few times before, faster harddrives even if its just optional for CTO, and standard 512 mb of RAM minimum). Other then that, completely agree with you and tenderly lovin' my mac mini. But then again I'm neither a PC/Mac-gamer (console gaming is a different story for me) and nor am I a intense power user. For the things you mention, I also agree with, moderate using - more then adequate enough! I also agree that not only are most PC users, but most mac users shouldn't be intense gamers (otherwise wouldn't they have gotten a PC considoring how much more games are out/comaptible for PCs and how easy it is to build your own gaming PC over time, the customization is much better/easier on a custom-PC gaming rig). Also, some may do heavy video editing - but I'm not one of those types either, and if I was - probably would've gone with the iMac or PowerMac long before even considoring a Mac Mini... I mean you wouldn't edit videos seriously on a 500-600 dollar PC either would you? Of course not! Why expect amazing blistering performance out of the same price tag of a mac, although it probably is better on a Mac - not going to be unbelievable on either in my opinion. I'm also curious about updates though now that the 7th and 11th have come and gone with no new Mac Mini's busting out of the pipeline. I'm curious to hear from Apple on their next move on the chessboard of updates, and when they'll checkmate the current Mac Mini for a new one. Anyways, awful analogies aside - think it'll come sooner now that last quarters earnings are reported and done with and the focus is shifted to current quarter earnings? If so, should see some updates these next 3 months considoring the last 3 months saw updates of the eMac, iMac, and PowerMac. Maybe iBook, MacMini, and Powerbook (really don't think the powerbook though personally, the other two i'd say are fair game for the next quarter though). Update the remaining three Mac's and maybe update a iPod since the 4th generation was update/merged with the iPod Photo line. If that's the case, that shuffle update rumor/speculation is sounding pretty good for the next few months as well. We'll all see in time though, and since I'm not patient enough you'll probably find me posting extremly long posts way too often on forums such as this... 'Tis the season every season :rolleyes:
 
Schrodinger said:
Here's the problem with that argument.

1) The are more low end users than there are power users. The Mac mini is designed to appeal to the former. 90% of non-gamers don't need a computer more powerful than the mac mini is now, and the gamer crowd wouldn't be wasting their time on a mac mini anyway. If Apple starts doing 64 and 128 VRAM standard, they're basically throwing money away for every user who's only going to be using his computer for e-mail and word processing.
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Mmmm, not necessarily. I am one of those 90% that are non-gamers. However, guess what? I like to edit my home movies using my iMac. I wonder how many of that 90% owns a DV video camera? Also I really like those new h.264 Hi-Definition movie previews on Apple's website- which I've noticed at the Apple store the Mini doesn't do too well with. I expect we're going to see a lot more of those H.264 videos showing up in over the next year. A better video chip would definately help with that.

And while I don't play too many games on the Mac, I have kids who do want to play games on it. I wonder how many of that 90% have children? Also if you check out Apple's Mac Mini page it states "Go ahead, just try to play Halo on a budget PC." On the same page they show the game The Incredibles playing on what looks like a 23" Cinema Display. Perhaps the Mini is not intended for gamers. But one look at the Mini Page on Apple's website might lead you to think otherwise. The Mini just barely meets the minimum requirements for the Sims 2. I doubt it will meet the requirements of most games released even 6-12 months from now. Giving it a better graphics chip would keep it relevant longer.
 
Look at the Buyer's guide and look at the dates. Then look at the dates of q1 and q2 for Apple. Is this the pattern?
 
Ravenflight said:
Mmmm, not necessarily. I am one of those 90% that are non-gamers. However, guess what? I like to edit my home movies using my iMac. I wonder how many of that 90% owns a DV video camera? Also I really like those new h.264 Hi-Definition movie previews on Apple's website- which I've noticed at the Apple store the Mini doesn't do too well with. I expect we're going to see a lot more of those H.264 videos showing up in over the next year. A better video chip would definately help with that.

And while I don't play too many games on the Mac, I have kids who do want to play games on it. I wonder how many of that 90% have children? Also if you check out Apple's Mac Mini page it states "Go ahead, just try to play Halo on a budget PC." On the same page they show the game The Incredibles playing on what looks like a 23" Cinema Display. Perhaps the Mini is not intended for gamers. But one look at the Mini Page on Apple's website might lead you to think otherwise. The Mini just barely meets the minimum requirements for the Sims 2. I doubt it will meet the requirements of most games released even 6-12 months from now. Giving it a better graphics chip would keep it relevant longer.
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I agree with your rationale however the mini is also the only option available from Apple for those of us who do not want an "all in one" machine and do not want to wear earplugs while using a powermac. I had an Apple LCD monitor die just a few weeks before Applecare expired....no way I want to have an iMac doing the same. It took Apple 7 weeks to replace the unit :eek: Now I am patiently waiting for a rev. B with a better video card and hopefully free airport/bluetooth

I do wonder if one has more than one mac on a network if the video encoding can be shared across the units somewhat like those mega "clusters" at V. Tech...Isn't it time we harness the unused computing power we all have laying around?
 
SiliconAddict said:
Well add me to that list. Add about a half dozen of my friend who have learned through the grapevine about Core Image, the GPU the Mini uses, and said screw that. I will prob get a mini this summer maybe. I have to get a few things worked out first but just as an FYI I think there are more users then you think that know about the Mini's lackings and like it or not the GPU is one of them. I’ve read several posts on MR that state that the Mac Mini is somewhat sluggish at 1920 x 1200 which is what my next LCD will be this summer. Even the Dell Optiplex’s in the office I work at can do that kind of resolution without flinching at all and that is with a freaking Intel integrated GPU for god sake!
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Unfortunately, most users don't bother going on the MR forums. Heck, most MR readers probably don't going to the forums.

This isn't a problem of iPod battery level proportions.

The point is that its a simple GPU upgrade. You don’t need something insane like a nvidia 6800 or something. A slight upgrade would solve this problem. And that is the problem with the mini in a nutshell. Minor tweaks here and there could make this a breakout device for Apple. 512MB here, 5400 RPM drive there, 64MB video card there, and as Jobs puts it BAM! You have a system where there is little room for bitching.
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The point is that you're oversimplifying the matter. If you told this to Steve Jobs, it's not like he's going to be completely blown away by the idea of putting 512 MB of RAM in instead of 256 MB. The problem is that Apple just doesn't think it's a worthwhile investment at this point, and you haven't really said anything that would convince them otherwise.

First, let's talk the cost of this plan. Keep in mind that there really aren't really any comparable products with the features you're asking for from other companies at the same price range.

What do you think the profit margin on the macs are? 20-25%? And even that would be pretty hefty in todays market. Let's say that the features you're suggesting cost an extra $50 for Apple. Which to me seems a bit low, but whatever.

What does that mean? Well, basically it would mean that you would be cutting their profit margins in half. You also raise the bar for all the rest of your products. e.g., if you start the Mac Mini off at 512, then you have to do the same thing with every other product in your line. This not only increases costs, but it also decreases potential revenue from upgrades.

In other words, the costs of this project are pretty damned hefty.

Now, let's look at benefits. You can talk about making it up in volume, but if you cut their profits in half, it means that they would basically have to double their mac mini customers in order to break even. For some reason, I doubt there are millions and millions of potential mac mini costumers who would go ahead and buy one if not for Core Image. Furthermore, they would have to do this WITHOUT cannibalizing their higher end models. In other words, without stealing people away from their eMacs, iMacs, PowerMacs, Powerbooks, iBooks, etc.

What are the other benefits? You can talk about increasing marketshare, but what's the inherent value of that? If you're talking about increasing your share among people with high demands and small budgets, well... frankly, I seriously doubt that you represent the ideal customer to begin with. Apple might have a bigger share, but it's a bigger share among people who amount to a smaller profit. This is not good business.

You can talk about repeat business, but again, it's repeat against people who mostly have a small budget. Furthermore, the more powerful you make their current computer, the longer their machine will last them, the longer it will take them to replace it.

The other point is that Apple places more value on making a quality product and quality service, and less value on features. Look at all the failed iPod competitors out there, who have more features, but who suck at customer service.

So what happens when you increase your market share among customers who are a) cheap, and b) demanding? Well, combined with the decrease in profit margins, chances are your customer service will start going down. Which is bad for everyone.

Really, we'd all like to get more product for less money. But unless you can figure out a way for this to benefit the company, it's just not going to happen.
 
brianus said:
Precisely!
And add me to the list too -- I don't know much about video cards or how OS X's graphics system works; I certainly do not follow these kinds of things like a 'professional' gamer or techie would. I too heard about the core image thing 'through the grapevine' (on messageboards like this) and it bothers me not because I want the best, but because I want something that's at least adequate to run Apple's own software, which is the main reason I want a Mac to begin with.
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So in other words, you don't really care, but someone else on this board told you you should.

This does not apply to the majority of consumers. Like it or not, but the MR forums is a fairly isolated community.

And even those who don't know the specifics about the Mini's deficiencies have probably heard the complaints about their effects; sluggishness and poor graphics performance.
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Not in the reviews that I've read. Probably because they're trying to compare the Mac Mini to similar computers in the same price range, rather than trying to compare it to more expensive macintoshes currently on the market.
 
Let's put an end to this bickering. There's no point arguing over Apple's strategic vision - fact is, none of us really know it. Maybe Apple wants to grow the business and focus on their long term viability, or maybe they want to stay at 2.5% to generate some short term niche profits for shareholders. We don't know, and at this point it's becoming irrelevant to the discussion of when we might see a Mini update. I'm sorry I started the debate.

Back to the topic at hand...
 
updates soon... or not?

www.hardmac.com is reporting:

The 2 main Apple French large resellers, Ingram and TechData, are currently proposing special offer for the Mac mini. this confirms that Apple has always the same problem: either many customers wishing to buy a Mac, but no stock, or the opposite.
While waiting for further development around the Mac mini, if you wish to buy a Mac mini you can find nice offers, such as CLG that is proposing a Mac mini 1.25 GHz with a LCD 17", and Apple keyboard and mouse for 746.30 Euros (all taxes included).
 
mmm.... maybe

..and http://www.macosrumors.com/ is saying:

Apple may have a surprise announcement during or shortly after the Expo that corresponds to the product updates previously (and incorrectly) predicted to take place last week. One way or another, we see big things just over the horizon. Things that could be nearly as big as the Intel transition announcement itself....
 
alexeismertin said:
..and http://www.macosrumors.com/ is saying:

Apple may have a surprise announcement during or shortly after the Expo that corresponds to the product updates previously (and incorrectly) predicted to take place last week. One way or another, we see big things just over the horizon. Things that could be nearly as big as the Intel transition announcement itself....
Click to expand...
Would that be the 2005 horizon or the 2006 horizon? :p
 
Plecky,

Thanks for the post.

I think the best thing that sums up the Mac mini for most is that it's a stepping stone to a bigger and more powerful Mac. It will always have a place at my house, but the more I want to do with it, the more I'll be leaning towards an upgrade to a faster more capable model.

For example, the video editing you brought up. The mini is not made for that, but to try out something like iMovie and liking it will surely lead toward a faster model that will run Final Cut (hefty and pricey, but I have a friend that is heading in that direction with his work).

Regardless, even for us moderate users, 64Mb VRAM should be the minimum on the next mini.
 
chillywilly said:
Regardless, even for us moderate users, 64Mb VRAM should be the minimum on the next mini.
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- 64MB VRAM
- better GPU (Radeon 9600 would be enough, the eMac already has it too)
- 256MB on-board (keep that memory slot free to make it less expensive to upgrade to 512MB/768MB/1.25GB)
- one more USB 2 port would be nice
- 5400 RPM drives

Lowest model should have 60GB, highest could still be 80GB.

CPU speed bump? Perhaps 1.25->1.33 and 1.42->1.5, but that's a lot less important than what I mentionned above, IMHO.
 
Yvan256, I would buy one right now if they bumped up the GPU and included 512 as the non-removable(I am not sure if that is possible though). However, I will wait it out and get a Rev B Mini regardlessly.
 
I know my mini's a stepping stone until the Mac/Intel switch, once that occurs I'll go back to portable with a Intel Inside Powerbook. I had a Dell Inspiron 8600 prior to my mini and I loved the battery life, speed, wireless, quiet-sound, and low-heat that came from the centrino within. Once that's sucessfully incorporated into powerbooks, I'll be one happy (and portable) camper. For now, the affordable and more-then-decent-enough and powerful-enough mini will let me enjoy Mac and Tiger in the meantime (excluding core graphics, which I don't feel I'm missing much from not having at the moment, maybe before I get that intel powerbook I'll begin to wish I had it, but not so much now). You are completely right though ChillyWilly, my mini was a stepping stone - and I think apple probably was aiming to make it a stepping stone for people like me, switching from a windows machine until I purchase a bigger and better Mac machine after discovering tiger (which how can you not love it?). Sure I wish there were more compatible mac programs once in a while (ahem, DVDshrink...) and that Macs were more commonly used in Businesses in general. But that aside, for a home computer, I guess Steve accomplished what he set out to do with the mini's - switch over another windows user to mac. Soon, I feel there will be many wintel switchers switching over to mactel - considoring at this rate there will be intel macs sooner then longhorn's release (what is it now, Fall 2006?). Good forum though, I thouroughly enjoyed this one and the posters, both with disagreeing and agreeing - kept it fresh, lively, and very engaging!
 
Plecky said:
I know my mini's a stepping stone until the Mac/Intel switch, once that occurs I'll go back to portable with a Intel Inside Powerbook. I had a Dell Inspiron 8600 prior to my mini and I loved the battery life, speed, wireless, quiet-sound, and low-heat that came from the centrino within. Once that's sucessfully incorporated into powerbooks, I'll be one happy (and portable) camper. For now, the affordable and more-then-decent-enough and powerful-enough mini will let me enjoy Mac and Tiger in the meantime (excluding core graphics, which I don't feel I'm missing much from not having at the moment, maybe before I get that intel powerbook I'll begin to wish I had it, but not so much now). You are completely right though ChillyWilly, my mini was a stepping stone - and I think apple probably was aiming to make it a stepping stone for people like me, switching from a windows machine until I purchase a bigger and better Mac machine after discovering tiger (which how can you not love it?). Sure I wish there were more compatible mac programs once in a while (ahem, DVDshrink...) and that Macs were more commonly used in Businesses in general. But that aside, for a home computer, I guess Steve accomplished what he set out to do with the mini's - switch over another windows user to mac. Soon, I feel there will be many wintel switchers switching over to mactel - considoring at this rate there will be intel macs sooner then longhorn's release (what is it now, Fall 2006?). Good forum though, I thouroughly enjoyed this one and the posters, both with disagreeing and agreeing - kept it fresh, lively, and very engaging!
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I could not have said it better. I was going to buy a Power Mac but I have decided to wait until they are running on Intel chips. However, I am going to wait a few more weeks to see if the Mini is updated. When three weeks are up I am buying update or not. I waited until the powerbook was updated (we all know how long that took :rolleyes: ) so I can wait for the mini as well.
 
Same here in Sweden!
But I have almost given up hope for a Mini rev B

alexeismertin said:
..at least here in the UK, with the off the shelf models still at 24 hours.


What does it mean (if anything)?
Click to expand...
 
couldn't wait any longer...

Well after following this thread since the beginning and waiting patiently for an announcement, I decided to go ahead and place my order last night.
Specs as follows:
1.42GHz : 80GB drive
512MB SDRAM
Superdrive
AirPort Extreme
Bluetooth

Current status - Processing order
Estimated ship - On or before 07/20/2005

Will let you all know if anything changes...

steve
 
tristeve said:
Well after following this thread since the beginning and waiting patiently for an announcement, I decided to go ahead and place my order last night.
Specs as follows:
1.42GHz : 80GB drive
512MB SDRAM
Superdrive
AirPort Extreme
Bluetooth

Current status - Processing order
Estimated ship - On or before 07/20/2005

Will let you all know if anything changes...

steve
Click to expand...

Best of luck to you - really! I cancelled my (identical) order after a month of waiting and ordered a 20" iMac G5. Let us know if the ship time improves, I'm still curious. My iMac is suppossed to ship the same day as your mini.
 
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