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Mr. Dee

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Dec 4, 2003
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Some what....I have a CAT5 cable running from somewhere into my room. I wasn't sure if it was working or not, but I decided to give it a try on my PowerBook G3 Wallstreet running Mac OS 10.0.3 (Cheetah). The chances of this working was very slim I thought with my concerns mainly, is the cable even working; could I get it talk to my modern Mac on High Sierra? Getting on the Internet would have been icing on the cake.

Success! Ethernet cable does work. But, it took a tiny bit of configuration, such as enabling networking in System Preferences. Automatically got issued a dynamic IP and that was it.

My first attempt was to see if I could maybe get it to connect to my MacBook Pro on 10.13, but it was not meant to be. Both systems knew of each others existence, but just could not really see each other. 10.13 complained the server software on 10.0.3 is outdated.

So, I decided to go on the Internet just for kicks. Initially I pinged Google, so, I knew it could connect to the Internet. Internet Explorer 5.1 Preview Release opened up blank, then I typed in www.google.com and look at that, it actually worked!

IMG_5945.JPG


IMG_5948.JPG

But it was probably too soon to celebrate. When I tried to search for old websites, it just crashed.

IMG_5949.JPG



Anyway, this was a fun Friday experiment to kill some time while I prepped to start working from home for the first time. What does this tell us though is that, these early versions of OS X are now officially ancestor software. Just as NextStep itself is an ancestor to OS X. I wonder how much of the original NextStep code is still in say 'Big Sur'? Keep in mind, Mac OS 10.0 is now older than NextStep was in 2001.

My next time killer are some fun tests with even more recent releases, which is likely to not work given the experience with High Sierra.

If you have any tips for actually getting networking to 'work', leave them in the comments.
 

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AL1630

macrumors 6502
Apr 24, 2016
441
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Idaho, USA
Always fun to tinker with stuff and see what will work! It's impressive that we can still get online with almost 20 year old software and even older hardware.

Crazy that OS X came out almost 20 years ago and the last PPC computers came off the assembly line 15 years ago.

I'm not sure what the oldest versions of the OS that can talk to each other are, maybe I'll play with Tiger/Leopard tomorrow.
 
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Mr. Dee

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Dec 4, 2003
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Always fun to tinker with stuff and see what will work! It's impressive that we can still get online with almost 20 year old software and even older hardware.

Crazy that OS X came out almost 20 years ago and the last PPC computers came off the assembly line 15 years ago.

I'm not sure what the oldest versions of the OS that can talk to each other are, maybe I'll play with Tiger/Leopard tomorrow.
What I am thinking of trying is network 10.0.3 with my 2005 PowerBook G4 running 10.5.8 over Apple Talk. The G4 can still network with newer versions such as 10.13.
 
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Project Alice

macrumors 65816
Jul 13, 2008
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Post Falls, ID
This is somewhat related, sort of.
I have a FreeNAS file server setup doing both AFP and SMB. It works with any OS that I've been able to throw at it yet.
Mac OS 9.x is able to connect via AFP, but not SMB. All versions of Mac OS X are able to connect via AFP, and 10.4+ are able to connect AFP and SMB.
Windows is obviously able to connect via SMB. I also enabled legacy SMB support on the server, so I've actually been able to connect Windows 98SE, ME, 2000, and XP to it as well.
Linux can connect via both AFP and SMB.

I have had problems in the past connecting "Mac OS X" and "macOS" together by themselves. Before my FreeNAS server I was using a Sawtooth G4. Any PPC mac would work with it just fine, but sometimes newer versions such as 10.13, or 10.14, would refuse to connect. If I remember correctly, it would work most of the time if Leopard was running AFP, but Tiger would not. Leopard's version of AFP must be new enough for "macOS" to understand.

I suspect FreeNAS is running a legacy support type of thing with AFP as well since I'm able to use it on basically anything.


Also, isn't 10.0.4 the latest version of Cheetah?
 
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Amethyst1

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Oct 28, 2015
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It's impressive that we can still get online with almost 20 year old software and even older hardware.
IE 5.1 is so useless it's not even funny. Not that the other browsers available for Cheetah are any better...

 
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Mr. Dee

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This is somewhat related, sort of.
I have a FreeNAS file server setup doing both AFP and SMB. It works with any OS that I've been able to throw at it yet.
Mac OS 9.x is able to connect via AFP, but not SMB. All versions of Mac OS X are able to connect via AFP, and 10.4+ are able to connect AFP and SMB.
Windows is obviously able to connect via SMB. I also enabled legacy SMB support on the server, so I've actually been able to connect Windows 98SE, ME, 2000, and XP to it as well.
Linux can connect via both AFP and SMB.

I have had problems in the past connecting "Mac OS X" and "macOS" together by themselves. Before my FreeNAS server I was using a Sawtooth G4. Any PPC mac would work with it just fine, but sometimes newer versions such as 10.13, or 10.14, would refuse to connect. If I remember correctly, it would work most of the time if Leopard was running AFP, but Tiger would not. Leopard's version of AFP must be new enough for "macOS" to understand.

I suspect FreeNAS is running a legacy support type of thing with AFP as well since I'm able to use it on basically anything.


Also, isn't 10.0.4 the latest version of Cheetah?
I had 10.0.4 installed but had to reinstall it due to some issues with OS 9 not allowing be set OS X as the default startup disk.

I’m trying to find a better web browser that might work on 10.0.
 
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Tratkazir_the_1st

macrumors regular
Feb 11, 2020
162
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Imixmuan

macrumors 6502
Dec 18, 2010
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Read this, from Classilla's developer Dr K. A little not worth it for me, frankly. He says Classila doesn't work with this yet, but he's planning on intergrating it in the future. Maybe after he's stopped COVID-19 from killing more people in Riverside County CA, which is his current priority. Edit: Maybe alex_free, the macrumors PPC user with the best programming chops I've seen here can intergrate this into a Panther or Jaguar capable browser? Camino was the last Panther supported browser as I recall. Seems like a perfect solution for pre-Tiger Macs.

 
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2984839

Cancelled
Apr 19, 2014
2,114
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If you have a device that can run Chrome/Chromium you can use Web Rendering Proxy to render the page in Chrome, and then pass the rendered page as a GIF or PNG with links as clickable elements to the Cheetah device: https://github.com/tenox7/wrp

You could use a VPS for this if you don't have a fast machine handy, though it's not very secure without a VPN connection to it.
 
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AL1630

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Apr 24, 2016
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Idaho, USA
IE 5.1 is so useless it's not even funny. Not that the other browsers available for Cheetah are any better...

That's true, google is about the most complicated page it'll load. I think I had ok luck with some other sites using an ancient version of firefox once. It is unfortunate the pre-tiger browser landscape is so barren.
 
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Amethyst1

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Oct 28, 2015
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It is unfortunate the pre-tiger browser landscape is so barren.

There's this for Jaguar and up although it could be considered cheating.

 
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Project Alice

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Jul 13, 2008
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That would be 10.0.4 build 4S10 shipped with the Quicksilver.
I had 10.0.4 installed but had to reinstall it due to some issues with OS 9 not allowing be set OS X as the default startup disk.
Interesting. I have ran 10.0.4 on my slot loading 500Mhz Indigo iMac, and also my old 333Mhz grape(?) tray loader. I never had any issues switching from OS 9 to X. I think I might have ran it on my 500Mhz "Dual USB" iBook too; though that might have just been installed long enough to run the 10.1 upgrade CD I have.
 
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Mr. Dee

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Dec 4, 2003
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Interesting. I have ran 10.0.4 on my slot loading 500Mhz Indigo iMac, and also my old 333Mhz grape(?) tray loader. I never had any issues switching from OS 9 to X. I think I might have ran it on my 500Mhz "Dual USB" iBook too; though that might have just been installed long enough to run the 10.1 upgrade CD I have.
Well, the battery is not working in the PowerBook G3 and something is not getting saved to the firmware when I unplug. If I don't use the Wallstreet for a while, even though I set the default boot drive in OS X or OS 9 as 'OS X' it still defaults to 9 on boot up and somehow becomes corrupt. Corrupt meaning, if I try going into Startup disk in OS 9 the system hangs.
 
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Macbookprodude

macrumors 65816
Jan 1, 2018
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ЗША
Read this, from Classilla's developer Dr K. A little not worth it for me, frankly. He says Classila doesn't work with this yet, but he's planning on intergrating it in the future. Maybe after he's stopped COVID-19 from killing more people in Riverside County CA, which is his current priority. Edit: Maybe alex_free, the macrumors PPC user with the best programming chops I've seen here can intergrate this into a Panther or Jaguar capable browser? Camino was the last Panther supported browser as I recall. Seems like a perfect solution for pre-Tiger Macs.


NOTE FROM CAMERON KAISER RE: CLASSILA.

Good news and bad news... the good news is that Classila is not abandoned and will be seeing updates soon.. just no idea when.. the bad news: Kaiser needs to find others to assist with the project. Updates to Classila can happen, but because he is so busy with TenFourFox and keeping internet still alive on PPC, those who know Carbon and are willing to assist with Classila updates are welcomed to do so, but at this time he is too busy with other things to take on Classila as its not a high priority sadly, but others are welcomed to get it going again. I for one am all for this.
 
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Slix

macrumors 65816
Mar 24, 2010
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I forget what version it was added, but any drive share with APFS can't connect from older HFS+ machines. I can see my MacBook Air while browsing the Network folder on 10.3-10.6 but it won't actually connect after attempting. However, from the opposite end, I can see older machines from my MacBook Air (running 10.14 Mojave) and connect just fine. It's just a one way connection because of the file system. Perhaps 10.0 is too old for even that to work with newer macOS versions.

I can connect to my Mac Server running 10.5 while on a Mac OS 9 machine, so a 10.0 to 10.5 connection should work just fine I think.
 
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Anonymous Freak

macrumors 603
Dec 12, 2002
5,402
811
Cascadia
Yep, IE5 on my Windows 3.11 ThinkPad still can connect to Google… And that's about all. WRP helps, but even that produces flaky output from time to time, and text entry is… painful.
 
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bunnspecial

macrumors 604
May 3, 2014
7,428
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Kentucky
Great work on this and it's good to know it works!

Unfortunately, your last photo of the "unexpectedly quit" is quite a frequent site in 10.0 :) .
 
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Dronecatcher

macrumors 68040
Jun 17, 2014
3,887
4,079
Lincolnshire, UK
Have you tried this?
 
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