Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard - Still Waiting

[Kenny Rullo]

Welcome!
And that would also be very cool
I love the PPC architecture and I would love to try a Intel Mac. But it sure would be great to have a choice.

Thanks Dokter_Mac!

I didn't really know the Mac world since a couple of month. But when Apple switched on intel, the software house I work for decided to "inspect the way" of releasing software also on MacosX. So i'm here to know, and what better way is reading forums?

I'm just a bit scared on rumors on Leopard: even a OS is released, some new bugs could be out on software that come from the previous. So i'm really curious about leopard but at the same time i'm afraid to waste time working on somewhat can change radically. Think about if a secret feature could be "Illuminous" or Aqua 2.0. I spent much time working on my bubbly interface and i'll have to write a new one when leopard come.

So i prefer to see leopard as later as possible in order to prepare myself and my team. AND, could be lovely if Steve releases a fully-featured version on ADC members not three days before the launch.

 

[localoid]

I believe Apple made with every PPC-version from OS X, since 10.0, also a x86 version. A just in case scenario. And when they switched to Intel everything was already done. Remember Steve was working with a x86 version from OS X and nobody noticed it. That was fun And it was on a Keynote, so the first x86 version from OS X in public was VERY stable! Why? Because they had it for years, since the beginning from OS X! It was just a VERY big secret (Which is cool )

If I said "Yonah, Intel's first generation of 65 nm process mobile microprocessors, introduced addition SSE3 instructions" you wouldn't have a clue to what "additional instructions" mean in regards to an Operating System, would you? And couldn't begin to grasp or understand what changes would have to be made, in terms of additional coding, to support "additional instructions."

When you say "when they switched to Intel everything was already done" it's quite obvious you really don't understand how a OS works, or what's required to maintain an OS, in terms of the additional code required to support the ever changing-over-time variety of hardware that occurs as time moves forward.

 

[localoid]

Or, Apple may decide that "extremes" are not so great an idea, and decide instead to have some PowerPC machines and some Intel machines...

And maybe they'll bring back the 8" floppy drive... those were really cool! Or hey... better yet... let's go back to using quills and ink-wells to write with, giving up on the whole computer thing! Instead of surfing the Web, we could draw stick figures of animals on our cave walls...

 

[CoreWeb]

And maybe they'll bring back the 8" floppy drive... those were really cool! Or hey... better yet... let's go back to using quills and ink-wells to write with, giving up on the whole computer thing! Instead of surfing the Web, we could draw stick figures of animals on our cave walls...

Great idea... quills can be quite handy...

I was saying that because apparently IBM has released newer PPC processors (either Cell or one of the others... I think a 3-core used in Xbox), and therefore by supporting both PowerPC and Intel, Apple could keep options open through both of these branches.

I'm just a bit scared on rumors on Leopard: even a OS is released, some new bugs could be out on software that come from the previous. So i'm really curious about leopard but at the same time i'm afraid to waste time working on somewhat can change radically. Think about if a secret feature could be "Illuminous" or Aqua 2.0. I spent much time working on my bubbly interface and i'll have to write a new one when leopard come.

Umm... technically, you shouldn't be writing your own bubbly interfaces (looks over shoulder for someone claiming "pot calling kettle black"). Really, you should be using Apple's interface elements... which with any new theme would be updated automatically...

I tend to use my own elements though, either because I'm a UI geek, very picky, a control freak, or perhaps all three. Of course, as lately I've been working on websites more than executable programs this doesn't make that large of a difference.

 

[jesteraver]

Hopefully it happens in April or in May so I can get a new iMac hopefully the new iMac will have blu-ray drive and what not.

 

[inkhead]

If Apple ships Leopard at WWDC, I'm switching to Ubuntu for good. As a premier developer the builds have been nothing short of disgusting. The amount of data from Apple sucks, and the feature set is less than impressive. And with coreanimation so many useful GUI eyecandy (that actually improves user experience can be done) that hasn't been... The UI needs an overhaul and lots of Apple slickness. Even Ubuntu with XGL finally shows how useful fantastic eyecandy can be, it makes OS X feel boring.

And I'm a die hard mac fanatic. Leopard is shaping up to be a boring update.

If it's shipping in June it's the 30th, because nothing is more of a slap in the face to DEVELOPERS than to release Leopard at WWDC. WWDC is all about learning to write your apps to take advantage of Leopard. If I'm not giving anytime to take advantage of new features, then I don't want to developer for a company who values it's developers like garabage

The finder is trash, even in Leopard networks hasn't been fixed. I can go to the command line, mount network volumes and browse them instantly, but try that in the finder and it goes beachball city. Disgusting. Windows XP is better at browsing network shares, and Vista is damn good at it. I can browse Apple's own shares faster on a $700 dell notebook with Vista, while my Mac Pro tower, and MacBook Pro beach ball the whole way through. Apple fix the ****ing finder.

 

[macfriend1]

If Apple ships Leopard at WWDC, I'm switching to Ubuntu for good. As a premier developer the builds have been nothing short of disgusting. The amount of data from Apple sucks, and the feature set is less than impressive. And with coreanimation so many useful GUI eyecandy (that actually improves user experience can be done) that hasn't been... The UI needs an overhaul and lots of Apple slickness. Even Ubuntu with XGL finally shows how useful fantastic eyecandy can be, it makes OS X feel boring.

And I'm a die hard mac fanatic. Leopard is shaping up to be a boring update.

If it's shipping in June it's the 30th, because nothing is more of a slap in the face to DEVELOPERS than to release Leopard at WWDC. WWDC is all about learning to write your apps to take advantage of Leopard. If I'm not giving anytime to take advantage of new features, then I don't want to developer for a company who values it's developers like garabage

The finder is trash, even in Leopard networks hasn't been fixed. I can go to the command line, mount network volumes and browse them instantly, but try that in the finder and it goes beachball city. Disgusting. Windows XP is better at browsing network shares, and Vista is damn good at it. I can browse Apple's own shares faster on a $700 dell notebook with Vista, while my Mac Pro tower, and MacBook Pro beach ball the whole way through. Apple fix the ****ing finder.

after WWDC new macbooks?

 

[inkswamp]

If Apple ships Leopard at WWDC, I'm switching to Ubuntu for good. [...] I can browse Apple's own shares faster on a $700 dell notebook with Vista, while my Mac Pro tower, and MacBook Pro beach ball the whole way through. Apple fix the ****ing finder.

What are you, some kind of bot? You posted that exact same thing to Digg.

Don't spam.

 

[CoreWeb]

If Apple ships Leopard at WWDC, I'm switching to Ubuntu for good. As a premier developer the builds have been nothing short of disgusting. The amount of data from Apple sucks, and the feature set is less than impressive. And with coreanimation so many useful GUI eyecandy (that actually improves user experience can be done) that hasn't been... The UI needs an overhaul and lots of Apple slickness. Even Ubuntu with XGL finally shows how useful fantastic eyecandy can be, it makes OS X feel boring.

And I'm a die hard mac fanatic. Leopard is shaping up to be a boring update.

If it's shipping in June it's the 30th, because nothing is more of a slap in the face to DEVELOPERS than to release Leopard at WWDC. WWDC is all about learning to write your apps to take advantage of Leopard. If I'm not giving anytime to take advantage of new features, then I don't want to developer for a company who values it's developers like garabage

The finder is trash, even in Leopard networks hasn't been fixed. I can go to the command line, mount network volumes and browse them instantly, but try that in the finder and it goes beachball city. Disgusting. Windows XP is better at browsing network shares, and Vista is damn good at it. I can browse Apple's own shares faster on a $700 dell notebook with Vista, while my Mac Pro tower, and MacBook Pro beach ball the whole way through. Apple fix the ****ing finder.

If you are a developer now, were you a developer back before Tiger was released? Because if so, what kind of builds did you get then? I honestly want some comparison here...

Also, you (if you are a developer) should be impressed by the under-the-hood advancements at the very least - what about CoreAnimation? I'd dearly love to try it out, but I'm not about to drop $500 for an unstable release of Tiger with a few Leopard add-ons.

How likely is it that Apple is releasing the REAL Leopard to ANYONE who pays $500? I find it highly unlikely. They are, in my opinion, releasing CoreAnimation, resolution independence, and other developer upgrades.

Even as is, the feature set shown on Apple's website would be enough for me to buy Leopard (I WANT TIME MACHINE, I WANT CORE ANIMATION, I WANT I WANT I WANT!), but I think there is more than $500 can buy.

P.S. A Select vs. Premiere membership would not likely make a difference in what kind of builds you get.

What are you, some kind of bot? You posted that exact same thing to Digg.

He also posted it to two other threads.

 

[Dokter_Mac]

If I said "Yonah, Intel's first generation of 65 nm process mobile microprocessors, introduced addition SSE3 instructions" you wouldn't have a clue to what "additional instructions" mean in regards to an Operating System, would you? And couldn't begin to grasp or understand what changes would have to be made, in terms of additional coding, to support "additional instructions."

When you say "when they switched to Intel everything was already done" it's quite obvious you really don't understand how a OS works, or what's required to maintain an OS, in terms of the additional code required to support the ever changing-over-time variety of hardware that occurs as time moves forward.

I believe you do not have to support all of the new features from a new processor to run a OS on that processor. Tiger is not supporting all of the features from a G5 or the latest Intel chips!
That said, in Leopard almost all the features from a G5 or latest Intel CPU will be supported (64 bits, etc.). But this does not mean that Leopard will not run anymore on a G4 or G3 just because of that.
BTW: I'm working as a Technical Assistant in a WaferFAB, I'm working in the microchip business. I'm not a programmer but I believe I know a few of the basics needed for programming.
So do not talk about me as if I do not know about what I'm talking about here. I know more about Quantum-physics then the average person and for sure then you! About a OS, I believe I know a lot about them. Not just OS X and I'm familiar how they work even with new technology like SSE3 and altivec and 64 bits and ... etc.

 

[Dokter_Mac]

And maybe they'll bring back the 8" floppy drive... those were really cool! Or hey... better yet... let's go back to using quills and ink-wells to write with, giving up on the whole computer thing! Instead of surfing the Web, we could draw stick figures of animals on our cave walls...

You know for sure a lot about processors
If IBM would not had problems with heat and Watt/performance (which they do now) Apple would still using PPC architecture. It's far more better then SISC...
BTW: It would be stupid to think that Apple will always use Intel in their Mac's If in 10 years Intel would be in the same position as IBM before the Intel switch, they will switch procesors back. Apple will always have a "just in case scenario"...

 

[inkswamp]

He also posted it to two other threads.

I love the smell of Linux trolls burning in the morning.

 

[Kenny Rullo]

Umm... technically, you shouldn't be writing your own bubbly interfaces (looks over shoulder for someone claiming "pot calling kettle black"). Really, you should be using Apple's interface elements... which with any new theme would be updated automatically...

I tend to use my own elements though, either because I'm a UI geek, very picky, a control freak, or perhaps all three. Of course, as lately I've been working on websites more than executable programs this doesn't make that large of a difference.

I completely agree with you. We use system-wide interfaces to build our software, but often i need to override the system feature with a custom one. If the core interface changes, the behavior of my tool changes.
Weird example: your a web developer (as i was). Imagine Safari 3.0: instead of using Konqueror core to parse html documents, it will use the Internet Explorer core. MSIE engine doesn't strictly follow W3C standards so you have to modify your source code to make it compliant with "mozilla-wide-park" of browsers and IE.

There is an alternative: using Java. I don't have to care about OS changes and historically this engine works well with old code. But I loose the performance that my custom C++ code comes with.
I also take a first look on Objective-C. But first impression is not so good (IMHO).

Apple takes about 6% of the market now and also little local software houses looking for an integration with MacOsX. We have no enough budget for a "twice-switch" (tiger and leopard) this year.

 

[Nick12QB]

I predict..

From the developer website.. posted by Peace on the Page 2 board..

The APPLE DESIGN AWARDS 2007 Contest (“Contest”), which is sponsored by Apple Inc. (“Apple”), begins Monday, March 12, 2007 and ends 5 PM (Pacific Time) Monday, April 23, 2007. The CONTEST recognizes outstanding achievement and excellence in Mac OS X software design.

Eligible Entries :

If entered in the BEST MAC OS X LEOPARD APPLICATION category:
Must execute directly on Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard build 9A343 (or later).
May be a pre-release version (or better).

Based on this... I predict Leopard will be released on Tuesday, April 24th, 2007. The contest submission end date tells all, why else would a Mac OSX software competition end then... to push publicity (as if it were even needed!) for 10.5. I say that NAB will be product releases (Mac Pro, Cinema Displays, Final Cut), as well as the announcement that 10.5 will be released on the 24th (unless this announcement comes sooner). This way, the new products released at NAB will ship with Leopard (it normally takes a week after keynotes before new stuff starts getting shipped, doesn't it?).

Look for the new Santa Rosa Macs (Macbook Pro, Macbook, iMac) to be released at WWDC or in late May (or spaced over this time), and then the iPhone a week after WWDC.

Lastly, the Mac Mini probably won't get a special event, if its lumped in at NAB it won't be surprising but I expect it to just appear on a tuesday in the near future, it won't get Santa Rosa just yet.