Mac OS X Family Pack... Now Available

[daveg5]

I dont pirate I just use what i buy as i see fit and i dont agree to an license

Hate to burst your bubble here dave but Apple does not sell your info to 3rd parties. It can be shared with other companies but ONLY if they agree to their terms (which says they are NOT to just go around and sell it). How do I know this...I work for Apple and I believe in our policies.

As for your rant on buying the OS and you will use it on what ever machine you want maybe you should read the agreement that your mouse 'accidentaly' fell on because what it basicaly says is that Apple is letting you USE the software (in other words you don't OWN it) on one machine.

this is intelectual property and when people do pirate the product it effects everbody down the line because it DOES effect the development of new products and apps. What do you think would happen if only 5% of people purchase Jag and the other 95% 'borrow' it. There probably wouldn't be much more development on the product..and this goes for ANY product or app.

If Apple goes bankrupt like so many others who promised not to sell your info(all the failed dot coms} Like enron Wolrdcom with there millionaire CEO and pension robbing policies, you know and I know they will sell it in a heartbeat, oops bubble broken. I dont pirate or lend any of my software. key word being my. If 5% of the people only would buy it I agree it would be bye bye apple" But if 95% of the people bought it and used it only on thier home machines then Apple would gain marketshare". Unfortuntely I must agree piracy is bad and its not something I codone.

However my pocketbook is just as important as Apples, more so if you ask me, and my money has intelletual value to it.
If I have supported your machine and convinced others to switch long before the imac and the switch ads.
Then I should be able to load up 10.2 on all the systems in my humble abode no matter how the agree button is clicked. The way I look at it, Apple owes me and needs me just as they think I do them.
And if they really want more switchers make the family pak $129 discontinue the one user pak and then they can claim 5 times more switchers and who actually reads those licenses anyway. Lawyers

 

[daveg5]

lets be honest

How many of you can honestly say that you have never installed a licensed piece of software on a computer other than the one it was originally intended for.
How many of you have downloaded mp3's not originally from your own cd-tape-lp-8track-dat-reeltoreel -vhs-beta-45-78-see&say collection
downloaded to your mp3 player or burned to cd
I thought so
Have you ever lended or gave a friend of family member a copy of a vhs/beta/dvd/laserdisk that you never owned or just rented.
I thought so

most software companies want you to "buy" thier software with the license hidden from sight. They glady take your money
Once you get home and take forever to read the legatease or so I've been told you find out you are really leasing the product to be used the way they dictate. Is this false advertisement or what?
Are we buying or Leasing indefinately?
Let's be honest!

 

[stevesien]

OSX yesteryear

I thought some of you might enjoy reading about this old Keynote from 1997, I did.


Amelio's fan dance



Now, about that operating system ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By SCOTT ROSENBERG

apple CEO Gilbert Amelio took center stage at the Macworld Expo in San Francisco Tuesday to explain the company's operating system strategy — and to reassure Mac loyalists that they would not be left adrift as Apple merges with NeXT and builds a new OS.

It was a marathon, two-and-a-half-hour performance that took its theme from "Independence Day," which Apple has been featuring in ads that say: "When you've got just 28 minutes to save the planet, better hope you've got the right computer." Jeff Goldblum, one of the heroes in "Independence Day," even turned up on the podium to introduce Amelio, and talked about "combining forces to strike a blow for humanity."

No doubt Apple's engineers and marketers wish that they could plug NeXT into the Mac universe as effortlessly as Goldblum's "Independence Day" character was able to network his Powerbook with an alien spaceship's computers. In the real world, operating systems are anything but plug-and-play; they require massive development efforts and long-term strategies.

Maybe that's why all the talk about "saving the world" during the Amelio marathon was just a little unsettling. The suffocatingly thick crowds had gathered to hear something far more mundane: how Amelio and company plan to save their operating system.

Amelio got to that, but not before lengthy ramblings, a ritualistic trotting-out of executives and celebrities, and an overextended bout of technology demonstrations.

Regarding the $100-150 million quarterly loss Apple just announced, Amelio explained that "Santa never came" this year; in other words, Apple sold a lot fewer Performas than it hoped. But the company's still sitting on a $1.7 billion cash reserve, so not to worry.

Instead, Amelio wanted us to see some of the cool stuff Apple's researchers are working on — like "knowledge management systems" that automate the summarizing of documents and "data detectors" that lift addresses, phone numbers and Web addresses from documents and pop them into databases.

Thanks, Gil, but everyone knows Apple always has neat projects simmering in the labs. What about that operating system?

Oh, he'd get to that. But first some special guests. Jim Barksdale of Netscape tells us how many Macs he owns. A Microsoft exec wishes Apple well. (Really.) Sun's Eric Schmidt reassures us that "Apple really gets it about the Net." Peter Gabriel wants us to know that "The Mac has been a great friend to artists."

Yes, thanks, but what about that operating system?

Okay, okay, but first look at this video about airplane designer Burt Rutan, who built the instrument panel of an experimental aircraft around a Powerbook and has "had no reliability problems at all."

Wish I could say that about my Powerbook. So, about that OS...

Amelio took pains to insist that Apple was not abandoning the current MacOS, System 7. Indeed, the most enthusiastic response of the day from the audience came during the demo of Tempo, the next System 7 upgrade, due for a July release. Tempo will introduce the upgraded Finder file-management system from Apple's aborted Copland operating system; it will be multithreaded, which means you can do things with more than one file at once. As Tempo copied two files simultaneously while also launching an application, the Macworld crowd cheered. This was the sort of thing they'd been waiting for from Apple for too long — not saving the world.

Tempo will be followed by two more upgrades to System 7 in 1998. These upgrades will gradually merge with the new OS Apple will build based on NeXT's technology, code-named Rhapsody. Rhapsody will be built around the same "kernel" or core system that NeXT uses — a version of Unix known as Mach.

So will Rhapsody run Mac software? Eventually. Amelio finally got around to the slide that showed his OS strategy. At the bottom, a layer labeled PowerPC. That's the chip, the hardware. Above that, a layer labeled "Modern Core OS." That must be Rhapsody. Above that, the layer is split into a "blue box" and a "yellow box."

The yellow box is where the applications built on the new NeXT-based system will run; the blue box is where "legacy" Mac applications will run. The blue box, Amelio explained, is not an emulation — "it's all about compatibility, and it will provide equal or better performance than you get today" (except with certain applications that talk directly to the computer's hardware).

This little blue box, which will not arrive until mid-1998, seems mighty important, and it's good to know that Apple has its color scheme worked out. But the haste with which Amelio rushed through this central explanation was unnerving. It did not inspire confidence, and that was what Amelio needed to do.

Steve Jobs, at least, beamed confidence when he took the stage to show how wonderful his Next software is — how speedily OpenStep can develop new applications, how network-friendly his OS is, and how many different Quicktime movies it can run simultaneously. And nifty these tools were indeed. But they're not exactly new, and how well they will migrate to Apple's OS and user base remains an open question.

Jobs at least spoke directly to the group that will have the most influence on the fate of Apple's strategy — the developers who will need to flock to the new software if it is to succeed. "We've got to get the spark back with the developers," Jobs said.

For his part, Amelio seemed to be paying dutiful but unenthusiastic tribute to the developers — and avoiding details about the OS as much as possible. He rushed through the end of his presentation and ushered Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak onto the stage for a photo-op with Jobs.

By the end, Amelio had spent more time welcoming "special guests" in the audience like Muhammad Ali, Gregory Hines, Sinbad and top execs from PacTel and Bank of America than he had introducing what should have been the guest of honor — his own company's strategy.

It's still impossible to predict where Apple's NeXT move will take it. If Tempo is as much fun as it looks, that may give Apple a breather with its current user base — and time to properly crossbreed NeXT's software with its own. But shouldn't these features have been available long ago? Isn't that the root of Apple's problem today?

Apple has said, "Trust us — it's coming in six months" too many times before for the promise to evoke much excitement today. Maybe that's why Amelio worked so hard today to bury the substance of his talk under a mountain of demos and cameos.

 

[Pants]

Re: Re: one at a time

we all fall into the trap of "ive heard it so many times it MUST be true". EULA - especially pertaining to OS's havent actually been challenged. QED, wether its legal or not is moot. I actually agree with Dave - ESPECIALLY in the case of 10.2 - buying a computer with a barely working os (hardware, after all, is only half the package) and then having to stump up cash for a 'working' version is almost definately an illegal sales practice. If you bought a washing machine and it didnt rinse, would you a) pay more for a software upgrade or b) take it back and kick up a stink? why do we accept computers as being intrinsically any different to any other white goods we buy (and then OWN)?

as for the family pack - i suspect this move was late simply because SJ saw it as a good opportunity to say 'hey, folks!! were not M$!". There has been a lot of sour faces over apples newly found 1 os 1 machine thoughts and .Mac skinning - and this is a nice move. However, as Ars Technica point out, how long this will last is another thing...

 

[skunk]

whatever

Whatever the motives, it's a bloody good move by Apple, especially in view of the criticism they have suffered lately. Since the business 10-pack is $499, it's also a recognition that families will tend to use their hardware less. The price-points would have been better at $99 single, $149 family, but at least it's substantial move in the right direction, and I expect if you shop around you'll get it at these prices anyway.

 

[woodsey]

Free Upgrades For life!

Why doesnt apple just offer free os upgrades for life?

Every time an OS update comes out, go to your local apple centre and burn a coppy.

Otherwise you could order in and have it mailed out for a small charge.

It could be used as part of the switch campaign.
Win xp ... $$$$
Mac OS ... FREE for life!

Anyone agree?

 

[peterjhill]

Re: no multiple user licenses

Originally posted by onemoof
The Apple Store still isn't selling any multiple license versions of OSX besides the family pack. There is no 10 user license for example. I guess users in the corporate environment have to pay the full price per computer

You can contact Apple and get a corporate license. They do not advertise it, maybe, but you even have an Apple sales rep somewhere assigned to your area, who will be able to get that information for you. Look in the apple contact us pages for their corporate sales number.

 

[peterjhill]

Re: this is really silly!!

Originally posted by daveg5
I bought a dvd to watch on one of my 5 dvd players.
I rented a video to watch on one of my 4 vhs players.
I bought a cd for the car the cd walkman the dvd player and the 100 disk changer.

You are not violating your license in all those cases. You are not copying the DVD to your computer and then selling the original disk. How can you be naive enough to think that it is the same thing? You really are comparing apples to oranges here.

It is more like you live in an apartment and hook up all your neighbors to your cable box so they could all watch it for free.

Is it moral? Who cares. Is it illegal in the US, you bet. You cant watch a dvd in all 5 players at once, nor a video. The CD on the other hand is an interesting question, and I may be breaking the law. I have all 4300 songs from my cd collection on my Ti800, but what if i am listening to the same song as my wife, while she is using the CD. I am not sure there, but it might be illegal. I am not going to worry though, because it is legal to copy your cd to tape or mp3 player (including computer) as long as you own a copy of the cd.

 

[peterjhill]

Originally posted by sith33
I don't see it as gouging. To use the DVD example... you're well within your right to install the OS, use it, uninstall it and install it somewhere else. Thats what you're really doing when you watch a DVD, since the actual content of the DVD doesn't remain with the player. Now, if you want to watch the DVD on two players at the same time, you're legally (well, and physically) prevented from doing so...

Props to the newbie. That is an excellent rebuttal to that arguement. It is also a tough arguement to counter on the current line of thinking.

 

[peterjhill]

Re: Free Upgrades For life!

Originally posted by woodsey
Why doesnt apple just offer free os upgrades for life?

Every time an OS update comes out, go to your local apple centre and burn a coppy.

Otherwise you could order in and have it mailed out for a small charge.

It could be used as part of the switch campaign.
Win xp ... $$$$
Mac OS ... FREE for life!

Anyone agree?

I'm sorry, I don't. You see, I want my Apple hardware to have good software. I think that many people would agree with me that the reason that they put up with "the gigahertz gap" is that Intel/AMD hardware does not run the MacOS.

I want to know that apple does have a source of revenue to keep the OS the best in the world. I pay for my QT Pro and 10.2, not because of the legality, but because I think it is worth the money. If I didn't think it was worth it, I wouldn't use it.

 

[skunk]

Absolutely! But what's with the 4 posts on the trot? Bite-sized chunks?

And, Onemoof, they ARE selling 10-packs for business: AppleStore>Apple Software>3rd item down.

 

[peterjhill]

Re: Re: Re: one at a time

Originally posted by Pants
I actually agree with Dave - ESPECIALLY in the case of 10.2 - buying a computer with a barely working os (hardware, after all, is only half the package) and then having to stump up cash for a 'working' version is almost definately an illegal sales practice.

10.1.5 is a pretty good OS. I never had any crashes while running it, and I was pushing the operating system hard, running fink.sourceforge.net software. Dual screen rootless X-windows, probably 20 apps at the same time during the workday.

Compare it to Windows, particularly NT 4.0. NT was this new technology (like OS X) that was architectularly better than Windows 95 and 98. Many things broke, but buy Service Pack 5, most of the bugs were worked out of the system, and it ran pretty well. You could have purchased the original NT 4, then many years later, still legally install all the bug fix SP's. Then Windows 2000 comes along (compare to 10.2). It is really NT 5. It has new bugs (like 10.2), but many new features. Nt4 SP 5 runs pretty well, yes it's previous versions had lots of bugs and incompatibility problems (like early versions of 10), but by SP 5, it was pretty rock solid.

Maybe you never used NT, you might be better off because of it. If you are having problems with your current 10.1.5, then I would recommend a fresh install of the OS. Anyone who has used a computer for more than a couple of years, knows that every so often, a fresh install is needed to get rid of system instabilities.

 

[peterjhill]

Originally posted by skunk
Absolutely! But what's with the 4 posts on the trot? Bite-sized chunks?

Well, I could read through the entire thread, and build one huge post that responded to all of the comments and people that I wanted to address, but instead I prefer to reply to each comment individually. I don't think that my comments overlap each other in their replies. They may address the same topic, but that is refered to as being "on-topic" which is encouraged. This morning is the first I have seen this thread, and it was full of good stuff to talk about.

 

[afm]

Re: Free Upgrades For life!

Originally posted by woodsey
Why doesnt apple just offer free os upgrades for life?

That's more or less what Sun does: You pay for
the hardware, and the Software is free, as long
as it's Sun hardware. The downside is that hardware
becomes more expensive, as it has to pay for software
development. You'll be surprised about RAM prices
from Sun.

 

[peterjhill]

We have a ton of Sun hardware at work, but often when we upgrade machines, instead of buy Sun boxes, we are getting Dell rack servers and installing Linux and BSD on them. Solaris vs Linux is not as competitive as Mac OS vs Linux or Windows, therefore, they probably should not charge users to pay for upgrades. People who had personal sun boxes (like myself) opted to replace their desktop *nix boxes with non Sun machines. I now have a dell desktop running linux and my OS X laptop. As access to *nix is pretty important for my job, I am happy to pay for OS X, as it is much better than any other alternative.

Cisco also has free software upgrades for their switches and routers (as long as you stay with the same type of software (Enterprise, IP/IPX, etc). Of course, eventually you need to buy new hardware to run the latest software.

 

[afm]

Commercial Software has its price

To complain about commercial software that costs money is rather hypocritical: that's how the
economy works. If you don't like this, you have two options. a) steal the software, b) do not
use it. If you only want to pay 90$ for Photoshop, why don't you try Gimp? You'll probably be able
to do most of what you want do to without the slightest danger to get in conflict with the law.

If you don't want to pay for upgrades of the software, you also have two options: a) steal the
upgrade and b) don't upgrade. If you don't want to pay for the work Apple has put into Jaguar, why
not use an alternative like Linux or FreeBSD? Of course you won't have Aqua, but you can get your
job done in KDE just as well. You really don't need a luxury car to get from A to B, a bike will
often be sufficient, and maybe better for your health, too.

 

[daveg5]

Next July?

First I would like to congratulate all the honest people out there who actually admit to doing something that might be "illegal"
Virtually all of us do it, except Apple employees who usually get substantial discounts, and sometimes even freeware.
I think $99 one year-$19 upgrade next 6mos-$129 next year is just a little greedy. am I alone here?
I also think that going from$.00 itools-$49-$99 .net(OOPS .mac} is even more greedy and to do it at the same time is a slap in the face.
Will I have to renew my lease next year to use 10.3?. after all we never own the software we buy, just the hardware(I hope we own that or is their a family pak for that also}
Sorry to rant so much fellows.
But if I dont who will ?.
I see Apple becoming more and more like Microsoft. It wont be long before we have to Dial up Apple dot com for each install and use a serail#.
I love Apple, that is precisely why I get on thier case from time to time.
Maybe a slap will knock some since in thier heads.
They need to stop the bait and switch tactics.
Get controllers that can actually use ddr
I dont mind having a slower computer then the Wintels as long as it gets the job done.
But dont give me false hope, tell it like it is ddr does basically no good in the new machines{correct me if I'm wrong on this)
I dont mind paying for upgrades but over $100 a year per machine[3] (one PM 8600 thats not even supported (thats probably illegal too) I wonder why?
It's simply outrageous
So my mouse will have things accidently fall on it at installation time from now unless fluffy my cat learns some new tricks
because I'm not going to agree to lease what I just bought unless they put it outside the box in bold letters this is a lease for one user one computer and can only be use as we see fit must be upgraded in a year at $129.00.
How many people would buy it if Apple was that honest.
I'm gonna get my one copy of 10.2 on 8/24 and fluffy is gonna learn a new trick
Never the less I do have a new powerbook in my future once they reach 1.2GHZ and have 10.3 installed

 

[daveg5]

3rd option

Yes there is a 3rd option
buy the software legally at full price! once a year that is! only because it was incomplete the first 2 times no dvd sluggish scanner drivers, audio software etc.
install the software on your desktop,laptop, and newly unsupported machine
teach your cat to paw at mice
this is instnctively easy
at the oportune time
make 1 backup copy
dont sell , share or give away said software.
As long as you dont agree to the license it is not binding
Only use on your machines bought from said company enjoy
after 2 year(1 1/2 actually) they finally got it right
at your expense
Or you can buy 3 copies 1st year, 3 copies 6mos later and now buy a family pac
What is trulyright?
What is truly fair?

 

[peterjhill]

DaveG5,

Please read the entire piracy and Mac OS X thread for all further replies to your comments.

My on topic comment is, I am glad that Apple is smart enough to offer this license. It is smart and makes good business sense. I am curious though, If I have a child living at home in school, could I then buy the educational price family license?

 

[daveg5]

Please read the entire piracy and Mac OS X thread for all further replies to your com

I read the piracy thread , prettyinteresting
Lots of points of view
More reason then ever for Apple to offer the family pac
with free upgrades for 3 years
that a get people to switch
and they can make it up with other hardware and software sales
and no home user that buys and installs on his own computer would ever be called a pirate
pirates dont pay for any thing they just take
they can take away the agreement altogether except for making and or selling sharing copies
talk about thinking different
not like Microsoft

 

[Pants]

Originally posted by peterjhill
We have a ton of Sun hardware at work, but often when we upgrade machines, instead of buy Sun boxes, we are getting Dell rack servers and installing Linux and BSD on them. Solaris vs Linux is not as competitive as Mac OS vs Linux or Windows, therefore, they probably should not charge users to pay for upgrades. People who had personal sun boxes (like myself) opted to replace their desktop *nix boxes with non Sun machines. I now have a dell desktop running linux and my OS X laptop. As access to *nix is pretty important for my job, I am happy to pay for OS X, as it is much better than any other alternative.

utter garbage. I cant believe you bothered typing that in order to justify your point! Solaris not as 'competitive' as windows- for what? playing dvds and you may have a point but jeez...! buying dells instead of sun boxes? I suspect if you can justify that statement, then you a) wanted to play quake on your sparc ultra, or b) didnt know why you bought the sun in the first place! here let me swap you a sparc 10 with a dell.... and as for linux on dells- it is only in the last few days you could even buy a dell box minus windows, and then only on a 'one-off' basis.

And no, my opinion of osX10.5 being poor is exactly that - its dog slow in comparison to XP (why compare to NT when its been around for so long? why not XP?), whilst printing is problematic at best - two major parts of an os. Some of the bundled apps are poor at best - mail is a joke, while the amount of grief i have had getting devtools installed is bordering on the comedic.

If apple starts to behave like Microsoft , then it had better start offering better value for money. If it is just a more expensive version of the same, then hey, I wont be the loser. I really despise the 'morally better' tone of some posters here - at best most are illogical, and at worst most sound like some mouthpiece for the RIAA. Some one please point to me a judgement which has fully upheld EULAs please.

 

[Pants]

Originally posted by peterjhill
DaveG5,

Please read the entire piracy and Mac OS X thread for all further replies to your comments.

My on topic comment is, I am glad that Apple is smart enough to offer this license. It is smart and makes good business sense. I am curious though, If I have a child living at home in school, could I then buy the educational price family license?

an educational priced family licence... see how daft this entire thing is? if you had a 'family' of 5 members, then assuming its not some hippy incestous commune, all families of 5 members are almost definately going to have a kid at school. therefore, why have two pricing structures for a 'family' licence? Unless apple is being loose with the word 'family'? (like they are slack with the term 'DDR' and 'free' (not including postage packing and handling charge...) ). I dont care about paying for things, I sincerely object to having my intelligence abused by marketing idiots!

 

[lilscoy]

Copies...

Eh, I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I just want to say that I absolutely agree with dave. Once I buy software, I should be able to do with it what I want...of course, with some limits. I don't think I should be able to copy it and sell it...making profit off of it is a whole other issue. But, I should be able to make as many copies as I want for myself. One for my laptop, one for my desktop, and one for my girlfriend's desktop, who lives in the same "household". This goes with cds and dvds as well. I should be able to copy a cd and have one for the house, and one for the car, and an mp3 version for my computer. I bought this cd, you know? I don't think it's any different than buying copies for each place. I mean, that just sounds silly: "you can have it on two computers, but only use one at a time". Is that really going to help any company sales? Also, I want to point out that software, dvds, and cds are all the same. They are all some form of media. And I'm not sure if you guys have heard of the Superdrive, but it does let you copy dvds and have a copy for different rooms. Now I know so many are going to flame me for this, but I also think it should be legal to rip dvds and have a separate copy for each dvd player, etc. It's my dvd. I'm not selling it. It makes no difference to Hollywood. Well anyway, I guess I want to finish by saying that I can somewhat understand a mutliple liscence fee for companies, but for families?? That's so silly. I just wish people could see that it's not companies trying to make their money...they are trying to milk you for yours.

 

[peterjhill]

Originally posted by Pants

utter garbage. I cant believe you bothered typing that in order to justify your point!

Take a chill pill dude. Did you read the post that was above mine?

Posted by afm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by woodsey
Why doesnt apple just offer free os upgrades for life?
------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's more or less what Sun does: You pay for
the hardware, and the Software is free, as long
as it's Sun hardware. The downside is that hardware
becomes more expensive, as it has to pay for software
development. You'll be surprised about RAM prices
from Sun.

So I was commenting on how Sun not charging for upgrades makes sense in the market that they are in. Sun is in a different market than Apple. Therefore I was pointing out that it makes sense to give free upgrades to Solaris.

Maybe you need it spelled out more clearly for you. I am sorry that I didn't quote the article I was referring to, I thought that the proximity of the two posts would be clear enough.

To be more clear, I was not comparing Solaris to Windows. If you read my post I said:

Solaris vs Linux is not as competitive as Mac OS vs Linux or Windows

Hey that pretty much agrees with what you said.

Speaking of agreeing, when I click on the Mac OS X EULA, guess what, I actually agree with it. Apple has spent alot of money developing the software, and I think that they are worthy of some of money money.

As for comparing Win NT to Mac OSX, I was not comparing them in direct terms, as in, Win NT is as good as OS X. I was comparing the fact that Microsoft decided to make some money from NT version 5 and renamed it 2000. I think that the features that are offered in 10.2, are at least as compelling as the differences between NT4 and 2000

So I am doing this comparison

Mac 10.1.5 is to Mac 10.2
as
Win NT 4.0 SP5 is to Windows 2000 SP0

Why didn't I do this:
Win 2000 vs WinXP
instead? Because I don't think that the upgrade from 2000 to XP was as equally significant as the change from 10.1.5 is to 10.2

I have been running 10.2 (legally) since 6c105, and find that the interface is much snappier with the Quartz Extreme. There is the addition of PPTP and ipv6, which is important to me. The kerberos integration, the speedier network drive access, the improved email client (which I actually switched to, since it now supports kerberos authentication), the new address book (which I also now use instead of Palm Desktop), Sherlock 3 (which is as good as watson, but is now included in the upgrade price), ichat (I dont use msn, yahoo, or icq that often). The whole system seems better optimized. I can see that they spent alot of effort on this release. It is not like the 10.1.5 release, which was more of a bug fix, minor optimization, add support of new hardware release.

So, maybe I should have been more clear, so that you would understand my point. okay, no problem. As you can see, I am happy to clarify myself.

About the dev tools, are you talking about the ones for OSX? I have never had any problems with it. As I recommend to someone else, if your OS is so screwed up, look on the side of the keyboard opposite the processor. It is most likely that too many poorly designed software apps have been installed, and that is what is mucking up the system. I've done it. I am much happier after formating my HD and doing a total clean install of the 10.2 GM.

As for XP being better than 10.1.5, I don't agree with you. If I did, then I would not be using an Apple computer. I would probably have a Dell laptop, and put up with having the Dell repairman at my office once a month like I did before I got my Tibook. The apple hardware is great, but as I said before, it is the OS that compells me to buy from Apple, not the hardware.

 

[peterjhill]

Re: Copies...

Originally posted by lilscoy
Eh, I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I just want to say that I absolutely agree with dave. Once I buy software, I should be able to do with it what I want..

Well, it will cost you much more that $169 (or whatever they are charging) to "buy" the Mac OS. Lets see, their market capitalization is about 5.6 billion dollars. For them to sell you their OS, I would say it would cost you about 2.8 billion dollars, as the only way you would be able to "buy" their OS would be if you were in possession of more than half of the outstanding stock. Of course where you to try to buy that much stock, it would cost you more, maybe up to 4 or 5 billion dollars, as all other shareholders would oppose the sale of apple's crown jewels to you, and would try to block the sale.

You see, when you buy a box from apple that has a disk in it that is labeled "Mac OS X 10.2" you are not "buying" the software. The only rights that you have to the software are those that Apple, as the owner of the software, grants you. Just like if you rent a car from Alamo, you can't then go sell the car to someone else, or take it to Mexico, if they tell you that you are not allowed to do it. It is not a moral question, in my mind, it is a legal one. It is about property ownership, and the protection thereof. It is this protection of ownership (in the US) that encourages companies like Apple to create these things of value, knowing that they can then turn a profit, that is then either reinvested in the company (as Apple does) or is shared with "shareholders" in the form of dividends.

So the closest you would come to "owning" mac OS X would be if you went out and bought one share of their stock. You would then be a part owner of the software. You still couldn't violate the license agreement, since the officers of the company, that the shareholders voted on to run the company think that the license is what is required.