Mac OS X Leopard: Unrealistic Expectations?...

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by I Am Designer™, Sep 26, 2007.

  1. I Am Designer™ macrumors regular

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    #1
    In a couple of different threads different users have asked for compelling reasons to update to Leopard... It seems that expectations are high, and new features just aren't creating a buzz for some people.

    I really am starting to think that expectations of Apple's current OS model are built on what Microsoft released in Vista. Vista was touted as a major sea-change when juxtaposed with XP - exactly the same way Apple went from OS9 to X. With leopard we are seeing the further evolution of X - and yet, even with it only being a larger incremental change, it is still in fact leaps and bounds ahead of Vista in what it can achieve. In fact, Tiger as it stands has better executed features and in-line applications than Vista.

    Spaces - For me thats going to be like Expose - I cant even remember how i lived without it now. Whenever I use a mac without Expose and I find myself hitting F9 and nothing happens... oh man! you mean I have to actually start moving my windows out the of the way to 'find' a window?... I already know Spaces is going to revolutionise how I interact with my Mac - again!

    Time Machine - unless you have been in the position when you hit 'Save' instead of 'Save As' or when you delete a folder only to find an image within that folder is linked to another document someplace you will never know how valuable this awesome new feature is going to be...

    iChat Theatre & Quicklook - Collaborating and presenting work / ideas / etc with others just became a whole new big deal... When other's start to implement Quicklook with their documents it will get even better - I can already imagine having an open document in Photoshop and hitting a Quicklook button to 'show' it to a client via iChat - they want to see a change? I jump back to Ps, make the change, hit Ql button - and boom... you get the idea...

    Quicklook - no more having to keep Preview, Quicktime, TextEdit et al constantly open to quickly look at various files...

    So... Are people holding out on 'secret features' etc etc because what they actually want to see is Mac OS XI? Which I can imagine will be a true sea-change.

    I'm starting to see that Apple's ease of use, accessibility, UI & Industrial design is starting to create a situation whereby an industry leader is revolutionising markets in such simple ways that the 'new Apple thing' belies the effect that it has on the way we interact and use our Apple hard/software. Take the iPhone touchscreen as a recent example, anyone who gets to use it is wowed by it, and immediately pick up on the fluid natural way they interact with the device. That very same natural interaction is what then makes the 'new' thing feel like it has always existed - anything else immediately feels 'old'. I've already used the Expose example - right now I have 9 active windows on my desktop, I can't imagine not having Expose to manage those windows (even counting how many active windows I have would have been difficult without Expose!). Yet Expose was part of the evolution of X, not part of a sea-change OS - but it still revolutionised the way I work... Another example - Time Machine, yes, it's just back up - but it's simplicity of use belies what it actually achieves for me within my workflow and everyday life - it's another feature that will make a massive impact on how I work.

    If you dont think there is anything compelling in Leopard to make you upgrade then you should most certainly stick with the OS version you have - and simply wait until Apple release a compelling enough version of their OS that suits your needs. For me, Leopard has enough compelling features to make me upgrade X once it's released....
     
  2. twoodcc macrumors P6

    twoodcc

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  3. Stella macrumors 604

    Stella

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    #3
    There are no ( more ) secret features.

    Apple revealed those 'secret features' in the last WWDC.

    So, yes, if people are expecting more major features that were previously announced they will certainly be disappointed.

     
  4. Queso macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    #4
    I'll be upgrading the iMac when Leopard comes out, providing of course they fix the reported Archive and Install issue on the PowerPC builds by the release build :)

    Quite looking forward to having a fully 64-bit machine.
     
  5. bogman12 macrumors regular

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    Sep 20, 2007
    #5
    What is the practical benefit of resolution independence?

    With the present LCD technology, native resolution offers the best performance. So unless I didn't understand resolution independence correctly, I see very little benefit given the bottleneck technology that is our current display systems.
     
  6. gauchogolfer macrumors 603

    gauchogolfer

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    #6

    When you zoom in on text, or make icons bigger, they won't lose their sharpness just by being magnified.
     
  7. devman macrumors 65816

    devman

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    #7
    It's for future high-dpi display technology.
     
  8. bogman12 macrumors regular

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    #8
    Anything around the corner? How small do the dots have to be in order to make it sufficient for resolution independence use?

    My Dell 15.4" laptop is now running at 1680x1050.. pretty darn high for a small display, yet even with the slightest resolution change, the images degrades substantially.

    That's kind of like the ipod Touch.. which is sort of like PDF technology..
     
  9. Veritas&Equitas macrumors 68000

    Veritas&Equitas

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    #9
    So for resolution independence, does this mean that I will be able to run 1650x1050 just fine on my 15'' MBP? I guess the actual ratio won't be the same as 1650x1050, but at least something close to it? I'd just like to have more room to work with...am I understanding it correctly that resolution independence will let me do this? Thanks
     
  10. bogman12 macrumors regular

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    #10
    You can technically run it at 1650x1050..

    However, because your LCD's resolution is maxed out at less than 1650x1050.. you won't really be able to operate the computer at that resolution, short of pan/crop .. which is what you can already do today...
     
  11. Derwood macrumors regular

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    Dec 21, 2005
    #11
    So...

    ...is resolution independence akin to scalable fonts? As in both represent a way of enlarging without becoming pixellated. :confused:

    Does that mean Alt+Vertical Scroll is in Tiger or will be in Leopard, resolution independent?

    Always found it hard to appreciate the significance of this myself... :eek:

    Derwood
     
  12. ChrisA macrumors G4

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    #12
    It should work on current monitors. Now when you zoom in all it does is replicate pixels and get blocky or pixelated. Resolution independence will fix this problem.

    But it also will enable us to make use of sharper monitors when they come out later. Because ALL of use, not just those over 40 will need to use zoomed displays.

    This is not magic. All it does is re-rasterize the windows as it is zoomed rather then what is currently done which is just as the pixel level

    Yes. All it is doing is changing the place the zoom function goes to get it's information. Currently the zoom function looks at the pixels in the window. The new system will look deeper, at the vector data and fonts used to create the pixels in the window. The zoom function will now re-create the pixels rather then simple blowing them up.

    The change is really for developers, they need to create their displays in a way that makes the vector and font information available to the display manager. If they do this then their window will look nice at any display resolution, if not it will look "blocky".
     
  13. devman macrumors 65816

    devman

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    #13
    I don't know for certain, but I'd expect high-dpi displays in 2008.

    That's debatable. Some would argue that the 133ppi of the current high-res MBP17 is about the limit. Apple have asked developers to test at 1.25, 1.5 and 2x scale factors. They have also advised artwork to be provided at up to 4x.

    From that it seems reasonable to speculate that there could be 200ppi displays coming.
     
  14. BornAgainMac macrumors 603

    BornAgainMac

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    #14
    Why were these boring features a secret until the last WWDC so that they wouldn't get copied?

    It was just Quicklook and New Finder with a new desktop background. I think the secrets they showed a year ago with Core Animation was a more wow feature than the desktop image or the new dock. I have seen products like the Quicklook feature in Windows back in the mid-90's and on the Amiga back in the 80's in the form of third-party tools.

    I think the upgrade is worth the $129 for iChat and Mail each. I think the outstanding secret feature will be the support for a touch screen Mac that is tested internally.
     
  15. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    Jul 4, 2004
    #15

    Perhaps one day we'll get to the 1200-2400dpi range of a nice coated sheet of paper. Monitors without visible pixels; type that looks printed-perfect.

    Perhaps not in my lifetime, though. Although when they do come, people will still be arguing about matte vs. glossy. ;)
     
  16. devman macrumors 65816

    devman

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    #16
    oh yeah, wouldn't it be great...

    Don't know - how old are you? :) I would hope so anyway. IBM have had 200ppi monitors for a while but they were (are?) very expensive.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T221
     
  17. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #17
    Meh

    The "secret features" were 100% hype - there was nothing to it, nothing whatsoever. SJ said that they'd like to keep those close to their vest - as if these features were so significant that everyone (read: Microsoft) would immediately copy them. And what was it in the end? Stacks and a new desktop background with semi-transparent bars? BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Let's face it: we've been had. Sure, I expect a bit of hype from SJ, but at least I thought there'd be some justification for the hype. Never in a million years did I expect that SJ would have no honor at all - that he'd really basically lie to his eager customers like that. It's as if he promised the most amazing secret accessory to the iPod that needs to be kept under wraps so it won't get ripped off... and came up with the "sock"! Just a disgrace.

    From then on, I no longer take anything SJ says at face value. Whatever he says, I think to myself "yeah, whatever" - SHOW ME. He lost trust, from now on, I don't take anything from SJ on trust - he has to prove it every single time.

    And yeah, Leopard is very underwhelming. Nothing I see is truly "must have". Spaces - already today we have 3rd party solutions for that. Time Machine - just backup, really. Quicklook - maybe a minor productivity enhancement. Let's face it, Leopard is a mild polish on Tiger, and that's all.

    I'm gonna be in no hurry to get Leopard. I'll get it when I buy a new iMac, probably sometime next year, or even 2009. Until then, Tiger is enough for me.
     
  18. Veritas&Equitas macrumors 68000

    Veritas&Equitas

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    #18
    I'm probably going to have to agree with you there. Nothing I see screams the need to upgrade to Leopard, at all. Finder still blows, and is one of the few areas that Windows is actually superior to OS X.

    For normal, everyday tasks, I just don't see a glaring need for anything Leopard offers. That being said, I'll still probably get it, but it seems as though it should almost be an update to Tiger, not a new OS.
     
  19. Queso macrumors G4

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    #19
    I think it's going to be exactly like Tiger was over Panther. Many people gave that the big "Meh!!" until developers starting using all the new technologies that were there but not obvious to users. I want to hear more about what's changed under the hood of Leopard. That's where any secret features are going to be, not in the GUI.
     
  20. gnasher729 macrumors P6

    gnasher729

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    #20
    As an example: Today, you can buy a MacBook Pro 17 inch with either 1680x1050 or 1920x1200 pixels. On the 1920x1200 screen, everything is displayed in the same number of pixels, but slightly smaller because the pixels are smaller.

    With resolution independence, you can use the 1920x1200 screen but display everything using more pixels. Every icon, every letter uses more pixels than on the 1680x1050 screen, so that it has exactly the same size in inches or millimetres on each screen, but on the 1920x1200 screen you get more quality.

    Today, smaller pixels mean a sharper, but smaller display. With resolution independence, you can display everything as small or large as you like, but with the same display quality as before. That is important for future, higher precision screens, and very important for people with eyes that are >40 years old. Today these people buy 19 inch and 22 inch monitors, because they have the same amount of pixels as 17 and 20 inch, but the pixels are larger so everything is displayed larger. With resolution independence they will buy 20 and 23 inch monitors, and get both a bigger and a sharper image.
     
  21. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #21
    I think your missing out on a lot of things under the hood. Leopard offers things to developers which will make a huge difference to how you use your Mac and what is going to be available for it in the next year or so.

    Just the fact that Leopard is meant to be better at handling multiple CPUs and that it is fully 64bit are enough reason alone to upgrade in my mind.
     
  22. GimmeSlack12 macrumors 603

    GimmeSlack12

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    #22
    You know we are going through the exact same kind of discussion as we did when it was time to upgrade to Tiger over Panther. Everyone said that Spotlight wasn't that big of a deal, Expose wasn't that great, and the new Finder look was an insignificant one.

    People talked about Tiger having too much eye candy and not about performance, such as the Dashboard rippling and the user cube changing (can't remember if that was new in Tiger).

    I really beg to differ and would hope that more people will remember these discussions back then. When Tiger dropped it was quite different than Panther, and it was faster and Spotlight and Expose really were worth it. And it wasn't just about eye candy but a more fluent Mac experience.

    Yes, Leopard will be the real deal, and we all won't quite 'get-it' until we get it. And when it comes time for 10.6 to roll along and Leopard to retire I will be right back here saying the same thing.

    Bring on Leopard!
     
  23. Genghis Khan macrumors 65816

    Genghis Khan

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    #23
    leopard will be awesome...in 1yr none of you will be using tiger

    in a month i'll be on leopard (should they release it by then)

    personnaly i'm looking forward to core animation and 64bit
     
  24. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #24
    Exactly. I have gone back to using Panther for a few weeks on an old laptop and I'm lost without Spotlight and Widgets. I never realised how much I used Spotlight, especially to open applications that were not on the dock as it is fast and efficient.

    I'm sure I'll be saying the same about some Leopard technologies if I ever have to go back to Tiger down the road.
     
  25. MikeTheC Guest

    MikeTheC

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    #25
    I Am Designer™:

    A lot of people complained that much of what was apparently different between Panther and Tiger were "mere cosmetics" that weren't worthy of a $129 outlay on their part.

    I think what you're seeing here is much the same thing.

    Now, clearly, there's bound to be a myriad of technological improvements "under the hood" (as there has been going between each "major dot" release of Mac OS X thus far), and I see nothing which would suggest otherwise. However, a good question to be asked is, as always: What are your needs, and does this newer version of Mac OS X address them?

    For me, the principle benefits of Tiger were faster performance having the presently-supported OS by 3rd party developers. Most of the rest of it, including both Spotlight and Expose, are things I almost never use, simply because they don't really fit into how I use my Mac. Now, in defense of Spotlight, I have gotten some good use from it, but only on an infrequent basis at best. And when it comes to Dashboard, well... for me it's more of an inconvenience than a benefit, really.

    Looking forward to Leopard, I'll probably switch to it eventually, but about the only feature I think I might make use of is Spaces. Having dabbled with Linux over the years, having multiple desktops is a pretty cool concept. But the rest of it I don't see myself using, and again for the same reason as above: it just doesn't fit the way I use my Mac. Mind you, I'm not decrying them or saying they're horrible (though I'll reserve opinion on the new Dock and the stacks thing), and obviously other people will likely get use from them, but they're really just not for me.

    Just my 2¢.
     

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