If you read the rest of my post, you see that I said I'm worried how long the option to turn off these new UI elements will be around 🙂
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Mac OS X Lion: Drops PowerPC Emulation, Adds QuickTime Pro Features, Much More
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If you read the rest of my post, you see that I said I'm worried how long the option to turn off these new UI elements will be around 🙂
SkippyThorson
macrumors 68000
I have the latest iLife and iWork all sitting in my dock, right next to them is Office '08 - which I only upgraded from '04 this past summer. I'll probably do the same thing as you, and try to get used to iWork, but little things like default 'Save As' file types are big things that Pages doesn't do.
For instance, in Word, I can hit CMD+S when typing up something in the middle of a lecture, save it to the desktop with CMD+D, type a name, and it saves as a .doc because that's what I have preset instead of .docx. Pages doesn't do that.
This just may be the very first time I've had to complain to Apple.
- I buy Microsoft Office '04. No biggie. I wanted it.
- I buy Office '08, again, no huge issue. Everyone upgrades software.
- I am finally forced to buy an Intel MacBook because Apple totally drops PPC. Instead of being left in the dust with my iBook, I spend good $$ on a MacBook.
- The final straw is that even after I upgrade, and transfer PPC Office to my MacBook, Apple even removes the ability to use it AT ALL.
So now, I'm forced to buy a new copy of Office, or deal with iWork's sub-par attempt at a productivity suite. No. Way. I've never had a problem with Apple's decisions to move forward, until now.
The answer to this is that Apple will give me a fresh and COMPATIBLE copy of Office, just like the (NOT ONE) TWO copies I bought that WORK. Plain and simple.
WTF! I still got a couple of apps that will run under Classic only! For that matter I got about a dozen apps that still rely on Rosetta. Okay,🙄 Only about 3 or 4 that I still use on a somewhat regular basis. Quicken 2007, Older versions of Office 10 which supports file formats that newer versions of Office can't handle, Quicktime 6 which was the last version of quicktime that could handle IV50 encoded videos. VLC? even the newest versions still cant playback IV50 encoded videos regardless of OS version, Intel, or PowerPC.
Heck I still use Virtual PC on my older PowerPC Macs to boot older Versions of Windows 95-2000. Oh well the march for modernity goes on.... Goodbye 68K, goodbye Classic, bye-bye PowerPC and Rosetta. One day we will be saying goodbye to OSX and for that matter the Macintosh platform as a whole. Did I just say Macintosh? Sad but true that day will happen. Most consumers these days are ambivalent to the differences between Windows or Mac OS. Many can only relate to Apple as ipod, iphone, or Mac(product) whatever. Perhaps someday people will think the Mac OS is something that only syncs whatever "i" (product you own) to your itunes library or your .mac calendar and contacts. 🙁
Heck I still use Virtual PC on my older PowerPC Macs to boot older Versions of Windows 95-2000. Oh well the march for modernity goes on.... Goodbye 68K, goodbye Classic, bye-bye PowerPC and Rosetta. One day we will be saying goodbye to OSX and for that matter the Macintosh platform as a whole. Did I just say Macintosh? Sad but true that day will happen. Most consumers these days are ambivalent to the differences between Windows or Mac OS. Many can only relate to Apple as ipod, iphone, or Mac(product) whatever. Perhaps someday people will think the Mac OS is something that only syncs whatever "i" (product you own) to your itunes library or your .mac calendar and contacts. 🙁
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Do you know what it takes for Snow Leopard to run Rosetta? Take a look at the screenshot, you might be surprised.
PS. Lion might be a deal breaker for me if it doesn't run Rosetta.
PSS. One reason Windows takes so much space is it installs all its different versions. XP and 2000 didn't have many to install (Cant remember how many 2000 had, but XP only had 2 that were installed), but with Vista and 7, all 6 different version were installed.
PS. Lion might be a deal breaker for me if it doesn't run Rosetta.
PSS. One reason Windows takes so much space is it installs all its different versions. XP and 2000 didn't have many to install (Cant remember how many 2000 had, but XP only had 2 that were installed), but with Vista and 7, all 6 different version were installed.
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KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
Really, some Apple goons came to your house and pointed a gun to your head ?
No one is forced to buy into new technology.
Blame Microsoft for using proprietary file formats that do not promote competition, and blame their upgrade pricing. BTW, you're as forced to buy a new copy of Office as you were upgrading your Mac.
The answer is stick with what works for your workflow. If that means Snow Leopard with Office 2008, then so be it.
I don't know how to respond to that. Now that you have an option; you're not happy. Instead thinking of when it will be removed.
SkippyThorson
macrumors 68000
No one came to my house and told me to upgrade, but they might as well have came and tossed my iBook across the room when they told me that OS updates, support for the system, and access to parts via Apple were basically all gone.
I never said I was forced to upgrade Office. Please re-read. Both times I said buying Office '04 and upgrading to Office '08 were no big deal.
While that sounds like a good idea to stick to, try it. There's no sense in being left behind if things just "work" now. The one thing most people here complain about when it comes to Windows is Microsoft's inability to let XP die.
When it comes to the Mac, though, everyone's gung-ho for keeping 10 year old Macs alive. Sure, I could comfortably sit myself in a position and never change, but then what would that accomplish? The day to upgrade still comes whether it's now or in 5 years.
*However, what you said in the quote above - I've seriously considered that, and will continue to think about it. Both work now, but like I've said, I can't keep my current setup forever. (Well, I can, but at the expense of being left behind. (As-is, I kept my iBook going as my most-used-Mac up until a few months ago. (The only issue is by your logic, no one forced me to upgrade, and I should still be using that.))) (...and no, I'm not insulting you.)
This article suggests workaround for installing Office 2008 without Rosetta: http://www.mactalk.com.au/11/72330-install-microsoft-office-2008-snow-leopard-without-rosetta.html
But Office 2008 is a Universal Binary application, it does not require Rosetta. It should thus work just fine under Lion (well, as 'fine' as MS Office can work).
I do not understand what you are complaining about.
roadbloc
macrumors G3
The install of Office 2008 requires Rosetta, as does the first few runs of Microsoft Software Update for it until it gets updated to Universal Binary.
Basically, if he wants Lion, he has no choice but to have an update install instead of a clean install.
grape ape
macrumors newbie
Coming from a software developer, Windows XP software is more stable then Mac OS X. I have to try different techniques for my code to run on Snow Leopard, where the same code just runs with no issues on XP. I'm all for Apple dropping the old if it makes for a more stable OS and software.
Oh and I wish Apple would stop that reserved memory crap for software that was previously running. That is an issue. Give back memory that is no longer needed or in use please.
Oh and I wish Apple would stop that reserved memory crap for software that was previously running. That is an issue. Give back memory that is no longer needed or in use please.
Yes, I forget about that point but as the poster just above has shown, there is a workaround.
Same thing I was thinking. Even before this announcement I looked at some of the alternatives like iBank, iFinance, etc but really didn't like the interface of the other apps.
My needs are pretty basic. Just tracking my bank/credit card accounts, reconciling, and some reporting. I saw that Quicken Essentials was on sale at Amazon for $39 bucks so I decided to bite the bullet and ordered it.
Anyone else thinking of "upgrading" 😉 to Quicken Essentials because of the upcoming Lion update.
My needs are pretty basic. Just tracking my bank/credit card accounts, reconciling, and some reporting. I saw that Quicken Essentials was on sale at Amazon for $39 bucks so I decided to bite the bullet and ordered it.
Anyone else thinking of "upgrading" 😉 to Quicken Essentials because of the upcoming Lion update.
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
I know how you feel. Seriously, when Honda told me that I couldn't buy spare parts for my Integra anymore, I was devastated. I junked it for 50$ the following day even though it was running like a champ and there was a rich after-market for routine maintenance part and bought a brand new Civic.
Oh wait, no I didn't...
That's just the reality of the industry, and heck, any industry. You can't support old products forever, but that doesn't make those products unusable or innapropriate for their owners. If your iBook still did all you wanted to do, what did you need for OS updates or support for the system ?
As a software developer, you should read up on how BSD does memory management and figure out that the "reserved" memory (you're talking wired/free/inactive/in use) is available to the OS to allocate to new processes and thus it makes no difference for it to be inactive or free.
And as for your software requiring hacks to work on Snow Leopard, that says more about your code than about the OS itself.
hmm, the loss of powerpc emulation may be a hard pill to swallow since most of my games are a bit older
SkippyThorson
macrumors 68000
That looks like something I should look into more. Thanks!
Incorrect, at least in my case. My version is NOT Intel-capable in the least. Universal? Nope. Mine is 100% PPC. It installed Rosetta the moment I clicked on the first file. (See below screenshot taken today on my MacBook.)
That last part sucks most. The clean install is most appealing to me, too. I can deal with an upgrade install, sure, but I'd like my Mac to be clean and I'd like Office to work. Two requests that aren't so huge.
That iBook did MOST of what I wanted it to do. I wanted the benefits of Snow Leopard, I wanted a faster / better system, I wanted to use the growing amount of software coming out that was Intel-only, etc. The iBook works, yes, but it was aging.
Your strange Honda story can be compared to my own factual one. I had the opportunity to buy a very nice 1981 Chevy Camaro. It had been set up as a drag car, with any non-essential trinkets removed. Just because something works and runs, does that make it a daily driver? Same thing with my iBook. It works, and I like it, but is it a great daily-use machine? No. It's nonsensical of you to think and say that it is. Once again, by your logic, it's absurd to upgrade from an Integra to a Ford Fusion if the Integra runs. You sound like you keep things going forever, but your signature with the latest MacBook Air begs to differ. Practicality of everything eventually declines. There's a point where a PPC Mac just doesn't cut it any more. I hit my cut-off when I thought I wouldn't for years.
I'm not asking Apple to support old products forever, I'm asking to at least leave the ability to use software, and that it not be removed for little reason. In fact, they had to go some to remove it. Leaving Universal support in wouldn't have bothered anything. Again, I can upgrade, or I can be left in the dust. You leave neither option as ideal though.
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KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
And again since you seem to be missing the whole point and launching into lengthy rants : Apple is leaving the ability to use software. It is not removing anything from your current OS/Hardware. The day Lion ships, Snow Leopard will still work. So will Leopard. So will Tiger. So will Panther. So will OS 9 of all things.
Heck, if you can drag out floppies of System 7.5.3, I'm sure you can get that to work too on a 68K Mac.
As for my Honda story, I just want to say I didn't sell it then and there when Honda stopped making parts for it in case you missed the heavy sarcasm I tried to apply. I sold it before that, and I did sell it because it was becoming a bother to me, after the 5th botched theft attempt on it. My friend however still has his 1989 Accord, without any support from Honda. Still runs like a champ, he still takes care of it and he doesn't care that the manufacturer dropped support for it. It still works fine.
And what does my MBA have to do with anything ? I didn't sacrifice any of my workflow for it. Everything I had on my previous MacBook still runs fine, why shouldn't I upgrade it if I have the money and something nice comes along ? I wouldn't have bought a MBA if it interfered with my workflow, just like you shouldn't buy Lion.
chaosbunny
macrumors 68020
I don't like that move either, but I guess for most people the ppc apps that are left are not ones that run on a regular basis. I enjoy playing games like Diablo2, Warcraft3, XIII, Homeworld2, etc once in a while, and I use an ancient EyeTV from 2003 that will not run with newer EyeTV software to convert some VHS tapes to a digital format.
For things like these, one can just clone the 10.6 installation on an external fw800 HD and boot from this if need be once in a while. Problem solved if one absolutely wants Lion.
Personally I'll just install it on a new seperate SSD inside my Mac Pro, keep my current 10.6 installation and call it a day. 😉
For things like these, one can just clone the 10.6 installation on an external fw800 HD and boot from this if need be once in a while. Problem solved if one absolutely wants Lion.
Personally I'll just install it on a new seperate SSD inside my Mac Pro, keep my current 10.6 installation and call it a day. 😉
grape ape
macrumors newbie
First, please don't judge me or my coding when you don't know me.
Now for the memory management. When memory is being reserved and you are writing code for a motion blur effect on a very high framerate video, Mac OS X isn't fast enough to free up the memory so you can process all of your frames. It crashes everytime. The same code runs perfectly on XP and Linux.
Anyway, I'm looking into this issue and I would never write hacks. I would never be that kind of guy or company.
SkippyThorson
macrumors 68000
...and since you keep repeating and repeating the same thing, I'll repeat myself. I can get a Commodore 64 or an Altair 8800 by your logic, because they still work. Hell, I should incorporate them into my daily life! I'll dig up an old Apple Newton to replace my iPhone 4 too, because those still work! Stupendous idea! 🙂
You don't seem to understand practicality. I don't care that Tiger and Leopard and my old TI Calculator still work. They're not of much use when something comes out that does what they did and more. I can stick with Snow Leopard and Office '08 forever, but I just don't want to. At some point, it'll just makes no sense. Get it yet?
I don't care about your Integra or Civic or friend's Accord or your Aunt's Ridgeline or your cousin's inline 4-banger hatchback ricer with an unpainted bodykit and a sail on the trunk. I hate Honda with a passion, and could care less about your car stories, hence the brief nature of my own.
My point is, again, falling on deaf ears. You don't keep something forever just because it works. I want to upgrade, and there should be no interference in that process, whether it be going from Mac OS 10.6 to 10.7 or a Kenmore to a Frigidaire.
Office 2008 is definitely listed as 'Intel' on my MBP and not PPC (I do have two apps that are PPC-only). As described before, only the installer requires Rosetta but there is a workaround by installing it via the command line as linked to. Moreover, even in the worst case, you could do a clean install of SL, add Office 2008 and then update to Lion, this should still be a pretty clean install.
At which point you get Lion and Office 2011, which work fine together. They only thing you might loose is that you will have to the jump to Lion and Office 2011 at the same time (even though it is rather likely that Office 2008 will work under Lion).
mdelvecchio
macrumors 68040
Carniphage
macrumors 68000
That would explain why After Effects, Nuke, Red's production tools, Maya, DaVinci Resolve,Final Cut Pro - and all other high end post-production software only appear on the PC!
C.
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