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Mac OS X Lion Notes: iOS Scroll Bars, Any Corner Resizing, Dock Changes

macsmurf said:
I have a new iPod Touch. I regularly have to close apps to free up RAM. That kinda sucks.

If they can do something intelligent about which programs dump their state to disk and which don't then it's cool. Otherwise, it's not cool. Hard to tell from screenshots.
Click to expand...

No you don't. If iOS needs more RAM, it'll free some up. Manually managing it is doing nothing.
 
GroundLoop said:
But that would not be taking the "common" user into consideration. I would hate to have to teach my parents the difference between a yellow and a blue dot. My thinking is that Apple is going to take over more of the management of running (foreground)/suspended/background processes.
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Again, why do the "common" users care ? I thought people here that were for this change said the lights weren't even noticed or used ? 🙄 Why would they suddenly notice even more useful lights ?

You people aren't even making sense anymore.

As for Apple taking over managing your computer, if you're fine with it, that's your perogative. I'm not. I manage my own or I leave. They should force this upon the user, it should be an option and I bet it will be. This is just the surface and what people are imagining from screenshots. Apple has yet to make any announcements about these "feature removals".
 
KnightWRX said:
Nor am I. It's the whole "suspend running apps that are backgrounded" thing that makes me say that, not the actual removal of the dots.

The dots don't really have anything to do with suspended/running/stopped. Heck, you could make them offer visual cues depending on state. Blue for running (as is), yellow for suspended and absent for stopped.
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Sure? I bet you have a browser running all the time even when not surfing the internet.
And your suggestions totally goes the wrong way. Why should I need to know if the app is suspended or stopped or running? Just click on it and it's there. Back from red, back from yellow, back from green, back from away, I don't care.
 
KnightWRX said:
I like knowing Mail is running and polling my POP server for new e-mail. No, I don't want to depend on my ISP to push updates to Apple's server so that they can push back updates to my Mac that will "resume" Mail.

Push notification is retarded. It's a hack for resource limited devices.
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That won't occur. But it totally doesn't matter if Mail polls, a daemon spun off by Mail polls, some OS daemon polls or ActiveSync / Exchange service "pushes".
 
AAPLaday said:
As a gamer i always close Safari, Firefox, iTunes and iPhoto before doing any Steam gaming. Unless you have buckets of ram then it will affect performance. I will miss those blue lights. Hopefully they are being replaced by another feature and not just removed
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I know what you mean, but honestly having those things open on a modern Mac would not effect performance in any real significant way.
 
GroundLoop said:
But that would not be taking the "common" user into consideration. I would hate to have to teach my parents the difference between a yellow and a blue dot. My thinking is that Apple is going to take over more of the management of running (foreground)/suspended/background processes. I may not like all of the decision they make wrt that management, but that will be part of the information that I used to make a decision on upgrading or not.

If the OS, as a tool, does not allow me to do what I need to do, it is time to get a new tool.

GL
Click to expand...

KnightWRX said:
Again, why do the "common" users care ? I thought people here that were for this change said the lights weren't even noticed or used ? 🙄 Why would they suddenly notice even more useful lights ?

You people aren't even making sense anymore.

As for Apple taking over managing your computer, if you're fine with it, that's your perogative. I'm not. I manage my own or I leave. They should force this upon the user, it should be an option and I bet it will be. This is just the surface and what people are imagining from screenshots. Apple has yet to make any announcements about these "feature removals".
Click to expand...

Convenient of you to remove the sections where I said that I am not sure if I will like how Apple manages it or not.

If you don't like where the OS is going then switch. I will see if it meets my needs. If it doesn't then I will find something that does (or stay with 10.6).

Common users are the core of Apple's market nowadays. We aren't still in the 90s where only the die-hard Mac evangelist is the base. The iPhone/iPad/etc has built a new core for Apple and they are going to cater to that core.

GL
 
Compile 'em all said:
What difference does it make? I open my computer to get work done. Why should I worry or even have to think about what is running and what not? If the OS can handle seamlessly resource management and it doesn't slow down anything then why not? One less geeky thing to worry about.
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Agreed. Apple should stop designing anything that requires intelligence. They should cater more toward a modern American publicly schooled audience instead.
 
Agreed...adding more indicators just gets messy. I understand the concept of having no indicators if the OS can seamlessly take care of suspending applications that are not it use.

But it does start to make the function of the Dock itself as a UI element come into question. Once Applications have been launched for the first time, and presumably bounce through their splash screens, etc, the Dock really becomes exclusively an Application Switcher, not a Launcher, since subsequent clicks on an open and/or suspended Application take you right to it. With no further "need" for indicator lights, the Dock's functionality is further diminished, especially as a stationary element that takes up a good chunk of vertical pixels.

I always have my Dock showing, but with this new paradigm I'm feeling like it's better off hidden...or reimagined altogether. Perhaps it should popup with a gesture or keystroke more like the iPhone running processes bar, or how the "+ Widgets" bar pops up in Dashboard. Let the order of the icons reflect what I've most recently been working on. Between cmd-Tab, the 4 finger swipe, Mission Control, and LaunchPad, the Dock starts to feel like a static space waster, rather than the semi-dynamic tool that it is presently.
 
"As a result of these new features, it appears that Mac applications are no longer depicted as launched or unlaunched in the Mac OS X Dock"


Well that's fun
 
GroundLoop said:
This is just Apple's way of getting everyone to purchase a Magic Trackpad. Scrollbars are unnecessary with multitouch scrolling. They just will just appear to give you a visual indication of where you are in the page/document/etc.

GL
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It makes me wonder about users that hunt and peck type or a dependent on scroll bars much less a scroll wheel.

I wouldn't consider two finger scrolling to be a higher concept in computer navigation but it's something that isn't a skill everywhere.
 
macsmurf said:
I have a new iPod Touch. I regularly have to close apps to free up RAM. That kinda sucks.
Click to expand...

iOS 4 will suspend those apps and free up RAM for you if you launch an app that requires the RAM. Now there may be a bug that it sometimes doesn't, but such bugs are transient and is not a critique of the system design itself.
 
muncyweb said:
Agreed. Apple should stop designing anything that requires intelligence. They should cater more toward a modern American publicly schooled audience instead.
Click to expand...

And should we remove navigation systems from their cars? People should be able to use maps. Should cell phone remove address books? People used to remember all of their friends' telephone numbers. It is called convenience.

GL
 
Eidorian said:
It makes me wonder about users that hunt and peck type or a dependent on scroll bars much less a scroll wheel.

I wouldn't consider two finger scrolling to be a higher concept in computer navigation but it's something that isn't a skill everywhere.
Click to expand...

I introduced the scroll wheel to someone yesterday evening actually. It was the first time they had ever noticed it was there. Hopefully Apple will keep in mind that its users aren't necessarily evolving with its operating system. Gestures are great, but they tend to confuse the older generation that didn't grow up with this stuff.
 
ctdonath said:
Because the window is just a visible artifact of the program. The program can run without displaying anything. Indeed, there are many programs running on your computer which have no windows showing - just as you can be thinking about something without talking about it.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but that didn't answer my question. The poster I was responding to said in Microsoft Windows your apps can run without the window open. I know you can minimize, but I didn't know that it can work the same way as Mac by just closing the window and the app remains running? I was asking how was that possible is Windows?
 
Eidorian said:
It makes me wonder about users that hunt and peck type or a dependent on scroll bars much less a scroll wheel.

I wouldn't consider two finger scrolling to be a higher concept in computer navigation but it's something that isn't a skill everywhere.
Click to expand...

Apple is going to have to pry my Logitech Trackman Wheel from my cold, dead hands.

GL
 
KnightWRX said:
I like knowing Mail is running and polling my POP server for new e-mail. No, I don't want to depend on my ISP to push updates to Apple's server so that they can push back updates to my Mac that will "resume" Mail.

Push notification is retarded. It's a hack for resource limited devices.
Click to expand...

Wow, nice jump to a false conclusion. When Mail polls every five minutes (or whatever you set it to), it puts an NSTask in the run loop that says "run the check in 5 minutes from now". There's no reason the OS can not detect this and completely suspend the app for five minutes until it's time to come alive and check for mail again. The question is, why do you want mail running a run loop for five minutes for no reason whatsoever.
 
muncyweb said:
I introduced the scroll wheel to someone yesterday evening actually. It was the first time they had ever noticed it was there. Hopefully Apple will keep in mind that its users aren't necessarily evolving with its operating system. Gestures are great, but they tend to confuse the older generation that didn't grow up with this stuff.
Click to expand...
I'm still introducing people to Exposé, the scroll wheel, two finger gestures, and keyboard shortcuts. Age doesn't appear to matter on this either. I'd have to say it's the desire to explore on a computer vs. fear of it.

It's getting close to "they'll be iOS indoctrinated or dead". 🙄

GroundLoop said:
Apple is going to have to pry my Logitech Trackman Wheel from my cold, dead hands.

GL
Click to expand...
I have a handful of Marble Mice here. PS/2 to USB.

The gesture system is a cute sell for a notebook or desktop but I find myself inputting accidental commands far too often.
 
Winni said:
Wow, that's innovative. KDE, Gnome and Windows have had that since... Ever?
Click to expand...

What is your point, other than once again demonstrating that you are only able to urinate acetic acid on this board?

Alternatively, are Windows users not entitled to happiness that they will have Copy and Paste on Windows Phone 7, because the iPhone has had it for two years?
 
I completely understand the concern over being able to see which programs are running - on first read I was a bit surprised myself. But after thinking about it, this makes complete sense. Especially now that we are seeing computers move to total Flash based storage. I see this as part of a transition into a platform where all of your apps are not always "running", but are always ready to run instantly. There will be no need to "launch" an app, and thus no need to "close" one. You simply use it when you need it.
 
HLdan said:
Thanks, but that didn't answer my question. The poster I was responding to said in Microsoft Windows your apps can run without the window open. I know you can minimize, but I didn't know that it can work the same way as Mac by just closing the window and the app remains running? I was asking how was that possible is Windows?
Click to expand...

In Win32 parlance, the point of entry of your app is WinMain(); Nothing forces you to have any CreateWindow(); statements. No one is forcing you to quit the app after closing a Window either. It's all up to the developer.

hayesk said:
Wow, nice jump to a false conclusion. When Mail polls every five minutes (or whatever you set it to), it puts an NSTask in the run loop that says "run the check in 5 minutes from now". There's no reason the OS can not detect this and completely suspend the app for five minutes until it's time to come alive and check for mail again. The question is, why do you want mail running a run loop for five minutes for no reason whatsoever.
Click to expand...

sleep(); usleep(); on the polling process. No need to eat cycles when you don't have to.
 
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