Mac OS X Lion to Come on DVD?

[Cougarcat]

don't have those Amazon placeholders a pretty bad reliability index?

Yes. Amazon doesn't know anything. They are just guessing.

That said, I'd bet money on DVD+Mac App Store being the two options. Maybe for 10.8 we'll see USB drives.

Perhaps Family Pack edition only. Or maybe have it a premium option.

For who? People who bought a 2011 iMac or MacBook in the first half of the year? That's a pretty small audience. It's possible Apple could offer a "premium" USB version for a bit more, but it *definitely* won't use thunderbolt.

 

[elppa]

Here's my theory:

Amazon noticed Mac OS X 10.0., 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6 shipped on C/DVD and assumed 10.7 would be the same.

Meanwhile in Cupertino Apple has either yet to decide, or are weighing up a number of options…

I guess they will provide two options:
[1] A flash Drives in the retail packaging.
[2] Mac App Store download for Snow Leopard owners.

 

[Riemann Zeta]

This really makes a whole lot of sense: DVDs are dirt cheap (like 0.03 USD cheap), 8GB USB drives are not. Providing the OS on stick drive makes sense for an expensive machine like the Macbook Air, where people are paying more for the tiny size. And boo to only offering 10.7 over the Mac App Store.

 

[0815]

I hope Lion will mark the end of DVD drives in all Macs ... they can be an additional option so that whoever needs one can pay for it - I don't have any need for it and Lion should be available as download and USB stick. I haven't bought any software on DVD in ages - I will always opt for downloads - DVD is a technology from the last century.

Providing the OS on stick drive makes sense for an expensive machine like the Macbook Air, where people are paying more for the tiny size. And boo to only offering 10.7 over the Mac App Store.

Hmm, something is wrong with my memory or math ... last time I checked the MacBook Air was the cheapest laptop from Apple and has the USB included - all the more expensive laptops have old fashioned DVDs.

 

[A Macbook Pro]

This just in: The sky is still blue.

 

[res1233]

I hope Lion will mark the end of DVD drives in all Macs ... they can be an additional option so that whoever needs one can pay for it - I don't have any need for it and Lion should be available as download and USB stick. I haven't bought any software on DVD in ages - I will always opt for downloads - DVD is a technology from the last century.



Hmm, something is wrong with my memory or math ... last time I checked the MacBook Air was the cheapest laptop from Apple and has the USB included - all the more expensive laptops have old fashioned DVDs.

I agree. The most problematic components in a computer in general are the mechanical ones, and at this point, the only mechanical component that most likely will never be removed is the fan. Mobile devices on the other hand have even done away with that. These are interesting times. I rarely ever use the optical drive anymore, in fact, I have not used it in months... There is simply no reason to. Virtually all software is available online via the mac app store or some site somewhere, and the only things i use the drive for anymore are OS restores from time machine. If Apple were to provide a restore partition with the default install of Lion, then that would be it. No more DVD drive.

 

[IndyGopher]

I agree. The most problematic components in a computer in general are the mechanical ones, and at this point, the only mechanical component that most likely will never be removed is the fan. Mobile devices on the other hand have even done away with that. These are interesting times. I rarely ever use the optical drive anymore, in fact, I have not used it in months... There is simply no reason to. Virtually all software is available online via the mac app store or some site somewhere, and the only things i use the drive for anymore are OS restores from time machine. If Apple were to provide a restore partition with the default install of Lion, then that would be it. No more DVD drive.

All true... but what happens when you replace the hard drive? Willing to buy one from Apple with the OS preinstalled?

 

[KnightWRX]

USB sticks are too expensive and take too much time to duplicate "en masse". DVDs are very cheaper and take few seconds to duplicate if even that since they are being pressed (not burned in the case of mass duplication). USB sticks are also more expensive.

It doesn't make sense to go to a USB only distribution model, at least from a cost basis. As for Mac App Store... meh... why not do downloads outside of the Mac App Store, I don't want to use that POS. I've been installing OSes from HTTP and FTP since the mid-90s, no need for a "Mac App Store" to do it. What happens if I don't have a 10.6 or 10.7 installation going and just want to wipe the computer ? Linux has been doing network installs from nothing. Upon purchase, just provide a USB thumb-drive image I can put on any 1 GB thumb-drive to boot into the installer where I put in my purchase code or something. No need for the "Mac App Store".

 

[ValSalva]

At this point in time most non-enthusiasts are barely comfortable reinstalling an OS. They'd be totally lost if OS X wasn't on a disc. I'm sure Apple doesn't want to have to deal with all the extra support calls and will provide Lion on DVD for any Mac that has a SuperDrive. DVDs are on their way out but still have a lot of mainstream life in them.

 

[Inconsequential]

As for Mac App Store... meh... why not do downloads outside of the Mac App Store, I don't want to use that POS. I've been installing OSes from HTTP and FTP since the mid-90s, no need for a "Mac App Store" to do it. What happens if I don't have a 10.6 or 10.7 installation going and just want to wipe the computer ? Linux has been doing network installs from nothing. Upon purchase, just provide a USB thumb-drive image I can put on any 1 GB thumb-drive to boot into the installer where I put in my purchase code or something. No need for the "Mac App Store".

And the world is full of computer super users like us?

If they do it through the App Store it will be a download that you double click and it will either:

A. Make a partition it can book off (AKA restore partition - not a fan personally, i'd delete mine after installation if they did this).
B. Ask for a USB stick or DL-DVD to be written to to allow installation normally.

It will be a minimal click affair. Steps: Where do you want it installed from, enter your password, get a cup of tea.

Once that step is over it will continue as the DVD would one it has restarted.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

We are still in a transition period. There is zero reason to think 10.7 won't come on DVD. Not everyone -- actually most -- people in the U.S. do not have high speed broadband (4 Mbps or faster) service either because of cost or availability [stats here for the non-believers: http://www.oecd.org/document/54/0,3343,en_2649_34225_38690102_1_1_1_1,00.html] . It would be suicidal for Apple to ship a multi-GB OS only via download. Especially Apple home users, who bought into Apple because of it's ease of use, are not going to sit for hours as their new shiny OS downloads, then sit for another 15-30 min as it installs.

 

[0815]

All true... but what happens when you replace the hard drive? Willing to buy one from Apple with the OS preinstalled?

Thats what the USB stick is for - you boot from it like you used to do from DVD and install - that simple.

USB sticks are too expensive and take too much time to duplicate "en masse". DVDs are very cheaper and take few seconds to duplicate if even that since they are being pressed (not burned in the case of mass duplication). USB sticks are also more expensive.

It doesn't make sense to go to a USB only distribution model, at least from a cost basis. As for Mac App Store... meh... why not do downloads outside of the Mac App Store, I don't want to use that POS. I've been installing OSes from HTTP and FTP since the mid-90s, no need for a "Mac App Store" to do it. What happens if I don't have a 10.6 or 10.7 installation going and just want to wipe the computer ? Linux has been doing network installs from nothing. Upon purchase, just provide a USB thumb-drive image I can put on any 1 GB thumb-drive to boot into the installer where I put in my purchase code or something. No need for the "Mac App Store".

Funny how history repeats itself (or better the comments on current events) ... those are the same arguments that I heard when computer manufactures started to get rid of the Floppy drive: but CDs are so much more expensive, I can't get everything on CD, people don't know how to handle them, ....
Also: don't compare the price of big read/writeable USB sticks in the store - with a fixed (read-only) image they can be mass produced fairly cheap - yes DVD might be a tiny bit cheaper for now - but there are other cost savings with the tiny USB sticks compared to the big DVD boxes (packaging, shipping, storage, .... and you save the money to put the DVD drive in the machine)
Lets face it: the DVD is at the end of its life cycle, it was great for its time but now is the time to say good bye.

At this point in time most non-enthusiasts are barely comfortable reinstalling an OS. They'd be totally lost if OS X wasn't on a disc. I'm sure Apple doesn't want to have to deal with all the extra support calls and will provide Lion on DVD for any Mac that has a SuperDrive. DVDs are on their way out but still have a lot of mainstream life in them.

even non-enthusiasts manage to put a USB stick in the right slot. You know, even my father (who does not know anything about computers and sometimes scares me with his very naive computer questions) knows how to put his USB stick in the computer to copy some pictures to it. If he can handle to put a DVD in the drive to boot and reinstall, he can handle to put a USB stick in the right slot to boot and reinstall.

We are still in a transition period. There is zero reason to think 10.7 won't come on DVD. Not everyone -- actually most -- people in the U.S. do not have high speed broadband (4 Mbps or faster) service either because of cost or availability [stats here for the non-believers: http://www.oecd.org/document/54/0,3343,en_2649_34225_38690102_1_1_1_1,00.html] . It would be suicidal for Apple to ship a multi-GB OS only via download. Especially Apple home users, who bought into Apple because of it's ease of use, are not going to sit for hours as their new shiny OS downloads, then sit for another 15-30 min as it installs.

Why? You don't need high speed internet to put a USB stick in your computer, no need to wait for hours, just plug it in and be happy.

 

[bushido]

Why? You don't need high speed internet to put a USB stick in your computer, no need to wait for hours, just plug it in and be happy.

hes obvs talking about non physical distribution (hint: broadband). using a usb stick is just as "dumb" as using a disc, its still physical media, whats the difference if u plug in a usb stick or use a disc which is cheaper to produce ...

 

[0815]

hes obvs talking about non physical distribution (hint: broadband). using a usb stick is just as "dumb" as using a disc, its still physical media, whats the difference if u plug in a usb stick or use a disc which is cheaper to produce ...

The difference is that the DVD drive is a relict from the last century. No need to put this big mechanical noisy space wasting thing in any new machine. The USB stick is for those who can't download for whatever reason. I have not used the DVD drive in years - still all my machines have this thing in it. I dare to say that the majority of users don't need a DVD drive - and for those that need one, they should have the option to get an optional one on new machines, but no need to have it by default in every new machine.

 

[buckers]

I don't want a boring DVD. I want Lion to come on one of those cool MacBook Air-style memory sticks, only compatible with ThunderBolt.

I too think a USB installation stick would be cool, but easy to lose, I'd imagine! On the flip-side, you can scratch DVDs.

 

[KnightWRX]

Funny how history repeats itself (or better the comments on current events) ... those are the same arguments that I heard when computer manufactures started to get rid of the Floppy drive: but CDs are so much more expensive, I can't get everything on CD, people don't know how to handle them, ....

Uh ? CDs were cheaper than floppies to mass produce and had been for quite in the 90s (remember, pressed vs burned) and 2, I was booting OS images and bootloaders from them way before the floppy drive even disappeared from Macs.

What are you even ranting about here ? This isn't history repeating itself at all in my case. If you have a blank Mac because of a problem or HD upgrade, a network install image being sold outside the Mac App Store makes a lot more sense than Mac App Store distribution. OSes shouldn't be distributed in a store that requires an OS installation to even work.

Chicken and egg problem right there. And a pure network install without media should be possible, Linux distributions have had that option forever. Welcome to the 90s or something. Again, all we need is a simple bootable image that we can put on a USB drive. Make an app to automate the creation of the USB thumb drive and it becomes completely user proof.

And seriously, the guy arguing normal people who have problems doing it this way ? News flash, people that aren't computer savvy don't tend to upgrade their OS beyond patches.

The difference is that the DVD drive is a relict from the last century. No need to put this big mechanical noisy space wasting thing in any new machine. The USB stick is for those who can't download for whatever reason. I have not used the DVD drive in years - still all my machines have this thing in it. I dare to say that the majority of users don't need a DVD drive - and for those that need one, they should have the option to get an optional one on new machines, but no need to have it by default in every new machine.

That's the point. You say it yourself, your machines still have DVD drives. What's the point of going to the more expensive USB drive option ? Again : CDs were cheaper than floppies to produce and were much quicker to mass produce. Going from optical to Flash memory is the opposite move, it makes the media both more expensive and much more complicated/long to duplicate in mass.

DVD distribution makes a lot more sense than USB right now in 2011. It will probably be like that for a few years. Admit, all the people clamoring for USB distribution just want a Apple branded USB Thumb drive. As an Air user with such a thumb drive let me tell you this : their design is pure crap and it is not quite as convenient as a real thumb drive. It also tends to get all scratched up when inserting it and removing it because it lacks the proper guides for the USB port.

 

[0815]

If you have a blank Mac because of a problem or HD upgrade, a network install image being sold outside the Mac App Store makes a lot more sense than Mac App Store distribution. OSes shouldn't be distributed in a store that requires an OS installation to even work.

That is what the USB stick is for! No need to download from anywhere. Don't cherry pick what you want to see and leave out the other options.

That's the point. You say it yourself, your machines still have DVD drives. What's the point of going to the more expensive USB drive option ? Again : CDs were cheaper than floppies to produce and were much quicker to mass produce. Going from optical to Flash memory is the opposite move, it makes the media both more expensive and much more complicated/long to duplicate in mass.

Saying we need DVD Drives just because all the machines out there (still) have DVD drives is a poor argument - following that we still would have floppies. I don't want a DVD drive in my next machine. I would need it only for reinstalling the OS (which on MacOS I actually never had to do, but worst case it might be needed). Actually I won't have a DVD in my next machine since it will be the MBA. The future is here.

And if you see the whole picture (distribution, shipping, storage, ...) I doubt that a read-only chip on a USB stick is much more expensive - and you save on all new machines the cost for the DVD drive and can use the space for better things. If it is so much more expensive, why does the cheapest Apple laptop come with a USB stick instead of DVD? Yes it might be a tiny bit more expensive.

As an Air user with such a thumb drive let me tell you this : their design is pure crap and it is not quite as convenient as a real thumb drive. It also tends to get all scratched up when inserting it and removing it because it lacks the proper guides for the USB port.

How often to you reinstall your OS that you keep inserting and removing it and scratching it all up? It should be a cheap stick (not good for anything else) that just sits 99.99999% of its time in the shelf. It's not that this is meant as a 'free Apple branded USB Stick' that you use all the time.

 

[Michael73]

The green aspect

Apple consistently touts how recyclable the machines it makes are and often talks about other green aspects of the company. It wouldn't surprise me if Lion is offered at a discount through the App Store and then a small premium on physical dvd media. Not only are USB sticks still more expensive than a dvd, but probably not as environmentally friendly to manufacture and package.

 

[LarryC]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

If you have a blank Mac because of a problem or HD upgrade, a network install image being sold outside the Mac App Store makes a lot more sense than Mac App Store distribution. OSes shouldn't be distributed in a store that requires an OS installation to even work.

That is what the USB stick is for! No need to download from anywhere. Don't cherry pick what you want to see and leave out the other options.

That's the point. You say it yourself, your machines still have DVD drives. What's the point of going to the more expensive USB drive option ? Again : CDs were cheaper than floppies to produce and were much quicker to mass produce. Going from optical to Flash memory is the opposite move, it makes the media both more expensive and much more complicated/long to duplicate in mass.

Saying we need DVD Drives just because all the machines out there (still) have DVD drives is a poor argument - following that we still would have floppies. I don't want a DVD drive in my next machine. I would need it only for reinstalling the OS (which on MacOS I actually never had to do, but worst case it might be needed). Actually I won't have a DVD in my next machine since it will be the MBA. The future is here.

And if you see the whole picture (distribution, shipping, storage, ...) I doubt that a read-only chip on a USB stick is much more expensive - and you save on all new machines the cost for the DVD drive and can use the space for better things. If it is so much more expensive, why does the cheapest Apple laptop come with a USB stick instead of DVD? Yes it might be a tiny bit more expensive.

As an Air user with such a thumb drive let me tell you this : their design is pure crap and it is not quite as convenient as a real thumb drive. It also tends to get all scratched up when inserting it and removing it because it lacks the proper guides for the USB port.

How often to you reinstall your OS that you keep inserting and removing it and scratching it all up? It should be a cheap stick (not good for anything else) that just sits 99.99999% of its time in the shelf. It's not that this is meant as a 'free Apple branded USB Stick' that you use all the time.

I keep seeing where people are saying that the MacBook Air is apple's cheapest laptop. Isn't the MacBook cheaper? And no, the 11" 64GB Air does not count. That is not a real computer. That is an iPad with a keyboard.

 

[KnightWRX]

That is what the USB stick is for! No need to download from anywhere. Don't cherry pick what you want to see and leave out the other options.

And a Apple branded USB Thumb drive makes no sense cost wise! DVD makes much more sense as an installation media. And you know what, shipping .iso files or images you can write to your own USB stick outside the Mac App Store makes EVEN MORE sense! And even more sense is shipping a simple 20 MB file (either iso or USB thumb drive format) that basically boots the Mac into the installer and gets the rest of the OS from FTP/HTTP! Wow, 1996 called they want their distribution method back...

Stop cherry picking arguments to answer and look, I can abuse exclamation points too!

Saying we need DVD Drives just because all the machines out there (still) have DVD drives is a poor argument - following that we still would have floppies. I don't want a DVD drive in my next machine. I would need it only for reinstalling the OS (which on MacOS I actually never had to do, but worst case it might be needed). Actually I won't have a DVD in my next machine since it will be the MBA. The future is here.

Then that next machine can come with a USB thumb drive like the MBA! But mass duplicating Lion media for retail sale is not about future Mac machines, it's about current owners buying the OS for their current Macs, which currently have DVD drives.

And if you see the whole picture (distribution, shipping, storage, ...) I doubt that a read-only chip on a USB stick is much more expensive - and you save on all new machines the cost for the DVD drive and can use the space for better things. If it is so much more expensive, why does the cheapest Apple laptop come with a USB stick instead of DVD? Yes it might be a tiny bit more expensive.

It's at least 15$ more expensive for a 4 GB drive. More for a 8 GB drive. DVDs cost pennies. USB Flash memory doesn't. You can put your hands over your hears and refuse to listen to the truth all you want, but that's how it is.

Duplication time and costs alone make this prohibitive. Where pressing a DVD takes a few seconds is not less, the Flash memory is limited by its writing speed. 4GB is non-trivial to write out, 8 GB is twice as long. We're talking at least a few minutes per drive. Pair that to the massive parrallele storage array is that writing out these in parallele, and costs go way up over a simple DVD press.

How often to you reinstall your OS that you keep inserting and removing it and scratching it all up? It should be a cheap stick (not good for anything else) that just sits 99.99999% of its time in the shelf. It's not that this is meant as a 'free Apple branded USB Stick' that you use all the time.

Mine is still in its packaing if you want it. I can ship it to you if that is really just you want, instead of spamming the forums asking for an overpriced installation media when DVD makes much more economical sense for Apple and its users.

As for the scratching, reports on the MBA forum are that 1 use is enough to leave the thumb-drive in a less than pristine state. Not multiple. Not "reinstall the OS every week". 1 use. It's just that cheaply made and frankly, from having looked at it, I can agree it is. With no guides to insert it into the port properly, there is no question in my mind that it will get scratched up pretty bad the first time you try to use it.

 

[iSimx]

I'm guessing it will be available on DVD and USB, otherwise how else would macbook air users upgrade? unless through the mac app store...

 

[Dr McKay]

I don't want a boring DVD. I want Lion to come on one of those cool MacBook Air-style memory sticks, only compatible with ThunderBolt.

Yea! And limit their new OS to about 20% of their users.

 

[ConnYoungy]

"how" doesnt really bother me, only "when"

 

[iRobby]

I prefer the Mac App Store easier for update notifications and the installation all done for you sit back and watch click of a button

 

[0815]

Yea! And limit their new OS to about 20% of their users.

Not that I can back it up by any numbers, but I would assume that more than 20% of the Macs out there that can run Lion have a USB port ....

EDIT: well, I just saw that the original post was limiting to Thunderbold ... ok, we are not there yet with 100% thunderbolt

"how" doesnt really bother me, only "when"

very well said ... maybe they can make everyone happy by offering the choice between:
- download (MAS or whatever other means)
- USB stick
- DVD

I just think now is the time to think about the future and offer options according to that (along with being the DVD an optional accessory on new Macs). DVDs are just no longer needed for the masses.


so everyone can pick his/her favorite based on their needs and their future plans (I for sure will skip the DVD)