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Mac OS X on Intel? Convergance? iPod and iTunes.

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
51,543
13,172
Steve Jobs made some interesting comments at today's financial analyst meeting... addressing some questions about the future direction of Apple.

One long-standing topic, Mac OS X on Intel, was addressed, with Jobs stating that while Panther could run on any processor, Apple is happy with IBM at the moment:

"Right now we don't see a compelling need to switch processor families. We have all the options in the world, but the PowerPC road map looks very strong," said Jobs

When questioned about Microsoft's Media Center initiative, Jobs echoed previous sentiments against convergence and stated "We're not going to go that direction." Jobs was also critical that some services (such as recording television shows) should remain on dedicated devices.

Finally, Jobs addressed the interoperability of iTunes and the iPod with other services/players. According to CNet:

"Jobs rebuffed the idea that the iTunes music store should work with MP3 players other than the iPod, or conversely, that Apple's iPod should work with other music download services."
 

the_dalex

macrumors member
Sep 2, 2003
89
0
It's good to see Steve sticking to his guns.

From the first day I bought my tuner card for my PC and realized it was not the way to go, I've pushed for having dedicated devices for media. Keep the iPod as a music player, the Tivo as a TV recorder, an so on, then let me use my digital hub to work with what they produce. That's the only way to get consistent quality output.

Why would I want to set my PC up to record television? Usually I want to be USING my PC during that time, and recording television requires the system's full attention. Let the Tivo do it, and then let me grab the video files to work with if I want them on my computer...
 
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voicegy

macrumors 65816
"Jobs rebuffed the idea that the iTunes music store should work with MP3 players other than the iPod, or conversely, that Apple's iPod should work with other music download services."

At first, I dig that statement. Keep it clean, keep it simple, keep it the best...keep it Apple.:D

Then, 2 seconds later, I remembered another device that was able to record with outstanding quality, in a closed format, that was the first and the best, and was an innovator in design, form, function, and abilities....

Sony's Betamax.

I'm torn....
 
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the_dalex

macrumors member
Sep 2, 2003
89
0
Panther could be written to run on any modern processor, even those you mentioned. He's not saying it would be an easy port...
 
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the_dalex

macrumors member
Sep 2, 2003
89
0
Good point, but Beta was never the number one brand among young people and never had this much marketshare (to my knowledge).

The iPod is guaranteed to lose ground in the market, but if the only reason your product isn't in everyone's hands is price, you're actually sitting pretty. If your price is the lowest and you have poor marketshare, then you're in a real nasty spot, because it means people don't want your product.

There's more than one market within the music player market, just like the car market isn't all mid-sized sedans.
 
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Dippo

macrumors 65816
Sep 27, 2003
1,044
1
Charlotte, NC
Originally posted by voicegy
"Jobs rebuffed the idea that the iTunes music store should work with MP3 players other than the iPod, or conversely, that Apple's iPod should work with other music download services."

At first, I dig that statement. Keep it clean, keep it simple, keep it the best...keep it Apple.:D

Then, 2 seconds later, I remembered another device that was able to record with outstanding quality, in a closed format, that was the first and the best, and was an innovator in design, form, function, and abilities....

Sony's Betamax.

I'm torn....

I do think that Jobs might be heading in the wrong direction with this one. I am not saying let the iPod play WMA files, but it would be nice to have a cheap Flash Memory MP3/AAC Player that worked with iTunes. Not everyone can afford a $300 iPod.
 
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Booga

macrumors regular
Aug 8, 2002
122
0
The Mac licensing question all over again

Argh! I feel like we're going on 1984 instead of 2004, and we're facing the question of whether to license to the world and become the de facto standard, or keep everything closed and integrated and go our own path. With MacOS, it led to a <5% market share. Let's hope they don't similarly hobble the iPod.
 
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mproud

macrumors regular
Mar 3, 2003
164
0
The press seems to be making such a big deal and providing their own reasons to why Apple should switch over. But from a technological perspective, Steve is right. What's wrong with the IBM PowerPC? The G5s seem to be a hit and IBM seems dedicated to providing newer versions.

I don't see why a lot of journalists and various editors understand this?
 
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sethypoo

macrumors 68000
Oct 8, 2003
1,580
0
Sacramento, CA, USA
Frankly, I hate the WMA format. It just takes too much space and has iffy sound quality. I am very impressed with Apple's AAC format. However, it would be smart of Apple to make the next generation of the iPod compatable with WMA. Think of it, the iPod could then tap into iTunes, Napster, Wal*Mart music store, and so on and so forth. It would get Apple's name even more out there. Apple could, say, bundle the iTunes software with each iPod and include a gift certificate for $10 to lure people in that direction.

Genius, I should work for Apple, lol.:rolleyes:
 
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xtekdiver

macrumors regular
Aug 8, 2003
132
0
Originally posted by the_dalex
It's good to see Steve sticking to his guns.

From the first day I bought my tuner card for my PC and realized it was not the way to go, I've pushed for having dedicated devices for media. Keep the iPod as a music player, the Tivo as a TV recorder, an so on, then let me use my digital hub to work with what they produce. That's the only way to get consistent quality output.

Why would I want to set my PC up to record television? Usually I want to be USING my PC during that time, and recording television requires the system's full attention. Let the Tivo do it, and then let me grab the video files to work with if I want them on my computer...

I agree, my tuner card experiance left a lot to be desired. It's cool if your media center is your computer and you watch it in your office, but for most home senarios it just isn't a workable solution; I for one believe the whole idea of recording TV will be replaced with viewing on demand. But even if it isn't, imagine trying to control your computer while sitting in on your sofa. I know people kinda do it with WebTV, but that really blows. It just doesn't work. I can imagine something more like recording a show with my remote control and Tivo like unit, and then going over to my computer later and editing it with Final Cut Pro or some such application, and then storing it on my Xserver Raid to be streamed back over to my TV when I want to watch something, and all of these devices conected with my Airport. Oh ya! Gotta have an Xserver. I think Jobs is right about convergance, it just isn't the right way to go.

And that brings up another issue with the iPod. Like the previous thread about Sony, they are going to go for the convergance device as an iPod killer. I think it will not work too well. The issue is do people really want a digital music player that can do video and games? Maybe, but I am not so sure. I think the iPod will continue to change and adapt, but it will be more along the lines of adding functionality that adds to your music enjoyment. In other words, making it possible to plug it into your car audio system without all the wires, or into your home stereo system and controlling it like a component, ect. You will use your computer to arrange and control all your music and the iPod will be the device that lets you listen to it in any environment. Video is a completly different situation and requires a completly different type of device.
 
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Powerbook G5

macrumors 68040
Jun 23, 2003
3,974
0
St Augustine, FL
Steve sticks by his decisions, I really admire that. I love how he will just flat out say what he thinks about any given question, comment, or statement and doesn't care what other analysts may think of his vision.
 
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Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,859
57
Re: TV on the computer...

Don't worry the recent efforts by the Fed will put a crimp in people's watching/trading of tv on their computers.
F.C.C. Acts Against Pirating of TV Broadcasts
By STEPHEN LABATON

Published: November 5, 2003

WASHINGTON, Nov. 4 - Federal regulators approved rules on Tuesday meant to prevent people from copying broadcasts of television shows and movies and widely distributing them on the Internet.

The decision, by the Federal Communications Commission, was widely hailed by Hollywood and the networks, which had lobbied hard for it. They have argued that at the dawn of digital television, they need regulatory and technological protection to avoid the experiences of the recording industry, which has been forced to cut prices and has filed hundreds of lawsuits to try to stop swapping of music on the Internet.

The movie studios and networks, as well as top regulators including Michael K. Powell, the chairman of the F.C.C., have said the rules are essential to accelerating the transition to digital television. Earlier this year, the commission reported that more than 1,000 broadcast television stations were transmitting digital programming, and every major market is now served by at least one digital station.

more... @ NY Times
 
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Snlhobo

macrumors newbie
Nov 5, 2003
4
0
Boston, MA/Richmond,VA
Worried About iPod

I hope that by shutting out the WMA format, apple isnt making a mistake, granted WMA sucks. I just dont want to see apple's trojan horse go down the drain.
 
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HashPipeK

macrumors newbie
Dec 7, 2002
27
0
Iowa
We actually have a pretty sweet media box set up now running Windows XP. ow I'm the last person to run winblows, but for a minimal cost we have got a pretty sweet media box. Took some work but it works very well now. if anyone cares to hear more I'll post the specs and how everything works.
 
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itsbetteronamac

macrumors regular
Apr 27, 2003
171
0
I am happy that apple is getting extra popular latley with the ipod+iTMS. But, I am afraid if everyone gets an iPod it's just gonna loose it's cool factor. I mean all us Apple users, won't be able to show off our asome apps, and shiny new iPods anymore.

I like being superior to pc users even if they don't know it.
 
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Sol

macrumors 68000
Jan 14, 2003
1,564
6
Australia
Apple moves forward, not backward

With the iBooks moving to the G4 and with the arrival of the G5 for PowerMacs there is no longer an incentive to consider Intel CPUs for the Mac. Even Microsoft is jumping on the PPC bandwagon so why would Apple take steps backwards toward the x86 processors? The only people who would benefit from such a move are the technology analysts who have been predicting such a move for the last five years.

As for iTunes not working with other media players, this is not exactly true. iTunes can encode MP3s and this makes its files compatible with most players, even if you have to use the Finder to copy those files to the devices. Dell, Creative etc have backed Microsoft's format, making any talk about better iTunes compatibility redundant.

The iTunes Music Store does not make money without the iPod sales that it encourages but maybe iTunes for Windows will change this. If the iTunes Music Store can become profitable on its own then Apple could make other players compatible provided they support the AAC format.
 
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flyfish29

macrumors 68020
Feb 4, 2003
2,173
4
New HAMpshire
Originally posted by the_dalex
Good point, but Beta was never the number one brand among young people and never had this much marketshare (to my knowledge).

Great point. I read/saw something someplace about the Betamax fiasco and why it really didn't fly...the report said that sony would not license Beta for use on porn. Back in the early 80's or whenever Beta was struggling and VHS was taking off the report said that this ability to show porn made VHS what it is today. Does anyone else have knowledge of this report or if porn was ever available on Beta other than dubbing?


I totally agree that Apple should make it all themselves...but they may have to coform to "standards" that are more broadly used/accepted. The market will tell Apple this as long as they are paying attention...they just have to make a decision earlier rather than later if a change is made.

Just wondering.
 
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Sol

macrumors 68000
Jan 14, 2003
1,564
6
Australia
Originally posted by flyfish29
I totally agree that Apple should make it all themselves...but they may have to coform to "standards" that are more broadly used/accepted. The market will tell Apple this as long as they are paying attention...they just have to make a decision earlier rather than later if a change is made.

I disagree that Apple has to conform to the WMA 'standard'. The iTunes Music Store has been more succesful in selling music online than any of these services that have backed WMA. AAC has proven itself to be the superior technology not only by sounding better than WMA but also by being purchased a lot more often.

In short, Apple can make whatever format it chooses to back the standard for online music sales. Lack of compatible players is not only due to Apple wanting to sell iPods but also the competition's backing of the WMA format instead of AAC.

By the way, Panasonic are the only other company that I can think of who support AAC in their players.
 
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Tulse

macrumors regular
Nov 3, 2003
220
0
I understand why Apple doesn't want iTMS to carry WMA music, since that would be playable on other digital music players. But I'm not nearly as clear on why Apple resists letting the iPod interoperate with other online music stores by supporting WMA. Is Apple actually anticipating that, with iTMS for Windows, music sales might actually make a profit directly? If not, why not let the iPod become more versatile, and therefore more universally desireable?
 
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singletrack

macrumors regular
Sep 16, 2003
126
0
Originally posted by Sol
I disagree that Apple has to conform to the WMA 'standard'. The iTunes Music Store has been more succesful in selling music online than any of these services that have backed WMA. AAC has proven itself to be the superior technology not only by sounding better than WMA but also by being purchased a lot more often.


Only in the US. In Europe it's entirely MP3 and WMA. No AAC at all. It'll get more difficult when the WMA based services pick up speed - Apple had a head start which has now all but gone and they are way behind in Europe.
 
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bigdog

macrumors newbie
Jul 17, 2002
23
0
Midcoast ME
Don't count out WMA support in iTunes yet.

Check iTunes.app > Contents > Resource > iTunes-wma.icns

 
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