Mac OS X Snow Leopard Drops PowerPC Support

[NoOneButMe]

Just because the features aren't jumping out of the computer and smacking you on the head doesn't mean they dont exist

OpenCL (combine CPU and GPU to do calculations) and Grand Central (really nice multicore support) are huge. But they're not going to jump out and smack you in the head and go "LOOK AT ME".

These are things developers can take and run with and make amazing apps that will hit you over the head to get you to notice them. The updates are not useless little things along the lines of CoverFlow that look pretty and do nothing else. If thats your definition of an OS update: "Only things I can see" then you should be loving Vista

 

[gespensen]

Mac OS X Snow Leopard Drops PowerPC Support

While I believe Apple wants to move forward with their software code, leaving the G5 behind at this time is a big mistake. Some Video companies I know of still have G5s running because the cost to upgrade to an Intel machine was not in their budget. Since Apple has the code that will give both PPC and Intel versions of the software, my guess is that their starting to use only Intel calls in the code which would make it incompatible with the PPC.

I just spent $1100 on my G5 getting a new motherboard and power supply. The G5 is still my workhorse for Video and multitasking. Although my Mini and MacBook Pro are zippy, the G5 is still a good system especially with my upgraded Video board and other add-on PCI boards. The Intel units still can’t come close to the amount of work capacity of my G5. I just don’t have the money to spend to upgrade to the Intel Mac Pro with all the memory, video boards, hard drives my G5 has would be well over $4k.

I still have a PPC Performa running OS 8 just to run some of my old software and games.

I hope they change their mind and include the G5 in the Snow Leopard, it has happened before.

 

[UMHurricanes34]

I really dont understand why people, PPC people, are bitching. They're not losing any features by not getting Snow Leopard. They're not getting Leopard taken away and erased off of their machines. No one is saying you cant have any new features, this is just an intel optimized version of Leopard. Why is that such a friggin big deal? Leopard will still run on your machines. There are no new features in Snow Leopard. If Leopard runs fine now, then why bother complaining? You arent LOSING anything.

 

[jettredmont]

Probably because they're still in the early stages of Snow Leopard and haven't re-compiled most of the Apps? They're probably still on system-level stuff. Only a guess, though.

Note that the screen shot lists all apps having been recompiled in the last couple of months.

It is still possible that they haven't devoted resources to clearing the "PPC" checkbox from all the XCode project files (a simple shell script would accomplish this), but unlikely that they just haven't been able to get around to it yet.

 

[dbwie]

support

Apple needs to be supporting older OSX releases with updates, beyond their simplistic previous-version-only method. If OSX is going to be coming out more often, with less improvements, that means older OSes are getting less support, which is an even bigger deal for PPC owners.

Apple did not state anything about what types of support would end when Snow Leopard is released. They will likely continue to offer security updates for Tiger 10.4.11, which I have running on a 9 year old iMac. From what I've read, this appears to be a form of Leopard that is optimized for running on the latest Intel hardware... I only have PPC Macs that cannot run Leopard currently, and I'm happy because Tiger works GREAT for me.

 

[Virgil-TB2]

finally some sense

This should come as no surprise to anyone. Apple has always stated that a typical Macs life span is approximately 3 years. ...

Jeepers!
Six pages in and finally someone is talking sense! And it's a "newbie."
I swear this forum is getting dumber and dumber ...

I have worked in tech support for years as I am sure many have and I have used computers since they first existed.

The average amount of time a user owns a computer before getting a new one or seriously upgrading the hardware is just over two years, three if it's a quality computer. This has pretty much always been the case.

While I am proud of the fact that I got 6 years out of my G4, and while Apple computers generally buck that trend and last a bit longer, to expect your 3 year old hardware to be supported is nonsense.

further stupidity to point out...

The majority of complainers are quoting "two years" as the age of computers that won't be suported... reality check folks ... by the time snow leopard is released it will be three years "plus" minimum. if you consider the announcement of the intel switch to be the marker it will be more than four years!

Finally, as several people have already pointed out, Leopard will still be supported even *after* snow leopard's release. They will likely support the old cat for at least a year after the new one comes out, so if you bought a PPC machine unknowingly just before the intel announcement, it will be five years old minimum, when "support is dropped" for it. That's a very good deal if you ask me. Especially considering that with the accelerating Mac adoption curve, PPC machines are going to be only a tiny fraction of the installed base at that point.

If the existence of a new OS called Snow Leopard that only runs on intel equates to "dropping support" then I guess they completely closed off support for Tiger when Leopard came out? And I guess Microsoft threw XP in the dustbin when Vista arrived?

Think before you post people.

 

[Preclaro_tipo]

I didn't buy my mac to run OS X, I bought it to

accomplish tasks, make movies, organize pictures. Use iWeb, edit images, and mostly write reports in word and excel (my job).

If I bought the last G5 in 2005 I wouldn't be able to install an the latest OS (feature-less I might add) in Mid to late 2009... oh well, I would still be able to accomplish my tasks that I purchased my mac to accomplish.

 

[Dokter_Mac]

iPhone SDK is also Intel only. It runs fine on PPC.

And the Applications folder from Snow Leopard is complete filled with Universal apps (PPC/Intel).
As far as I know the extensions are also universal and also aware of loading 32 bit or 64 bit.

So no mather which specs you are reading now: this system or preview will run on a PPC based Mac. That's for sure!

Eventually the iPhone SDK, when it's out of beta, will also be available for both processors. It's just not making sense that Apple is releasing Universal beta after beta from the iPhone SDK just for releasing it eventually only for Intel?
That's just crazy

 

[Hattig]

I think it's a good idea for Apple to keep on creating PowerPC binaries and Operating Systems simply so that they know that they have a good solid reliable base of software that isn't tied to one architecture.

Sure, I don't expect Apple to write Altivec codepaths for PowerPC any longer, but I do expect them to have a generic C / ObjC codepath available for when the Intel codepaths (yeah, they need a few for Intel because SSEx keeps on getting modified piecemeal, unlike Altivec which was done correctly up front) aren't suitable.

On the other hand, a lot of the code is also being used for ARM. That should sort out endian issues and so on. I just don't think there's any harm in Apple creating a PowerPC version of 10.6 to be honest. I can understand why it isn't important (although a lot of Apple owners do praise the 5+ year lifespan their hardware gets, but that was never guaranteed to have the latest OS on it towards the end). It's like how non-Firewire Macs slowly fell behind.

I sadly write this on an iBook G4, which is not yet 3 years old. The last Tiger OS update broke power management, so the CPU runs very hot all the time, even when doing very little - the fan comes on when web browsing! I could get Leopard, but I don't feel it's worth it for this hardware. On the other hand, I'm a year off getting a replacement laptop for various reasons. Still, it does the job, I just get sweaty wrists.

 

[FF_productions]

I think what hurts is how much Apple hyped up these G5's and now they are completely ditching the platform.

I have not been living under a rock, I do understand that we've known this since 2005 that PPC would disappear, but the G5's are more than capable of work. They are 64 bit processors and the average consumer still wouldn't need the power the G5 provides.

 

[PsychoSid]

Exactly

Its just the developer preview, apple is known to release intel only developer previews to the developers, does not necessarily meant that they are dropping ppc just yet.

Apple of course could dispel this in a heartbeat of they want to. But would it be fun ? Would it be interesting ? Would it be quite so frustrating...

Does this add to the "mystical nature" of the company. Very probably.

 

[gehrbox]

While I believe Apple wants to move forward with their software code, leaving the G5 behind at this time is a big mistake. Some Video companies I know of still have G5s running because the cost to upgrade to an Intel machine was not in their budget. Since Apple has the code that will give both PPC and Intel versions of the software, my guess is that their starting to use only Intel calls in the code which would make it incompatible with the PPC.

I just spent $1100 on my G5 getting a new motherboard and power supply. The G5 is still my workhorse for Video and multitasking. Although my Mini and MacBook Pro are zippy, the G5 is still a good system especially with my upgraded Video board and other add-on PCI boards. The Intel units still can’t come close to the amount of work capacity of my G5. I just don’t have the money to spend to upgrade to the Intel Mac Pro with all the memory, video boards, hard drives my G5 has would be well over $4k.

I still have a PPC Performa running OS 8 just to run some of my old software and games.

I hope they change their mind and include the G5 in the Snow Leopard, it has happened before.

And they can continue to use their G5's along with the apps they have. I don't remember Apple adding any code that caused the OS to shut down within 12 months of a new OS release.

If a company does not update the hardware and newer/faster/better apps become available that need the new hardware it will be their fault for the loss in productivity due to their slower G5 hardware.

 

[unwinded]

It is NOT an emulator... It is a translator.

Isn't that what an emulator is? It translates code/graphic calls to whatever the native machine is.

 

[dbwie]

G5 Macs

My iMac G5 2.1 ghz (2.5 GB of RAM) runs horrible with Leopard 10.5.3, with more spinning beach balls than a circus seal could handle.

Meanwhile my new Intel iMac (2.4 ghz) is a speed demon.

The G5 is going on Craigslist very soon and a replacement Intel will arrive shortly thereafter.

I've heard of lots of hardware problems with G5 iMacs, so I would bet the spinning beach ball is not to due Leopard, but more likely to some hardware issues. A friend of mine had his motherboard replaced a few times by Apple, and they finally gave up and gave him a new Intel iMac. (He had AppleCare).

 

[rjfiske]

While I believe Apple wants to move forward with their software code, leaving the G5 behind at this time is a big mistake. Some Video companies I know of still have G5s running because the cost to upgrade to an Intel machine was not in their budget. Since Apple has the code that will give both PPC and Intel versions of the software, my guess is that their starting to use only Intel calls in the code which would make it incompatible with the PPC.

I just spent $1100 on my G5 getting a new motherboard and power supply. The G5 is still my workhorse for Video and multitasking. Although my Mini and MacBook Pro are zippy, the G5 is still a good system especially with my upgraded Video board and other add-on PCI boards. The Intel units still can’t come close to the amount of work capacity of my G5. I just don’t have the money to spend to upgrade to the Intel Mac Pro with all the memory, video boards, hard drives my G5 has would be well over $4k.

I still have a PPC Performa running OS 8 just to run some of my old software and games.

I hope they change their mind and include the G5 in the Snow Leopard, it has happened before.

Questions:
1.) What Intel units are you using to compare/contrast against your G5? Every test I've seen (barefeats.com, etc) seems to come up with a comparison opposite your findings... that G5's run more efficiently than equal Intel processors. Or were you using your existing two Intel computers as a comparison?
2.) Do you feel you're a typical Mac user? If so, what percentage of users would you guess are like you... power user enough to be devoted to Video work, yet budget enough where a new Intel computer is out of the question?
3.) If you really do want to keep your G5, what in Apple's plan is stopping you from using this G5 for video work as you're currently using your Performa for games?

 

[Afsheen]

It's worth pointing out that the last time Apple transitioned from one processor architecture to another (when they switched from 68K chips to PPC), they stopped supporting 68K processors in new OS releases after... 3 years.

"PowerPC Macs hit the market in March of 1994. By 1997, Mac OS 8.5 was the first version of Mac OS that could not run on any 68K Macs. ... So, the timeframe? 1994 to 1997. 3 years."
Source: http://bestmacs.com/news/archives/000038.shtml

Again, this shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.

 

[dawnrazor]

Judging by used prices of G5, G4 and G3 machines on ebay and elsewhere, you can't give them away. I sold my G4 Ti book a few months ago for $250 and thought I did pretty well out of the deal. I feel sorry for folks still on G5 etc, but face the facts that if your running a G5 or G4 these days it owes you nothing and is increasingly hard to find support for it with third party developers.

 

[Anuba]

What I don't understand is why PPC users think they even need Snow Leopard. It's not a new major OS version like Jaguar, Tiger and Leopard, it's not even Leopard deluxe. The mission statement says no new features. It will only address speed and stability. Ditching PPC support is the very fundament of that process, it allows them to clean out tons of legacy ballast and focus all their efforts on streamlining and fine tuning the Intel code.

Heck, tons of people are still on Tiger, Intel Mac owners included, and it's not like Snow Leopard is coming tomorrow. It's ONE YEAR away. 10.5 will receive more updates and will serve you fine until at least 2010, and do you honestly see yourselves still clinging to your PPCs in the fall of 2010, when the youngest of PPCs will be 5 years old and the oldest will be, uh, like really reeeeally old?

 

[Amdahl]

You really think there will still be TIGER updates after 10.6 ships? And even Leopard updates are a stretch - 10.4.11 is the ONLY time apple has updated an OS after the next version shipped.

Given that 10.4.11 was released two weeks after 10.5 shipped (and 10.4.10 was released in June 07), I don't think it even qualifies as an update after the other OS had shipped. If 10.4.12 shipped anytime since Jan 08, that would count.

 

[Mac Player]

PERFORMACE and STABILITY are 2 compelling reason for PPC users to want 10.6 don't you think?

 

[Mal]

While I believe Apple wants to move forward with their software code, leaving the G5 behind at this time is a big mistake. Some Video companies I know of still have G5s running because the cost to upgrade to an Intel machine was not in their budget. Since Apple has the code that will give both PPC and Intel versions of the software, my guess is that their starting to use only Intel calls in the code which would make it incompatible with the PPC.

I just spent $1100 on my G5 getting a new motherboard and power supply. The G5 is still my workhorse for Video and multitasking. Although my Mini and MacBook Pro are zippy, the G5 is still a good system especially with my upgraded Video board and other add-on PCI boards. The Intel units still can’t come close to the amount of work capacity of my G5. I just don’t have the money to spend to upgrade to the Intel Mac Pro with all the memory, video boards, hard drives my G5 has would be well over $4k.

I still have a PPC Performa running OS 8 just to run some of my old software and games.

I hope they change their mind and include the G5 in the Snow Leopard, it has happened before.

Your computer will continue to work just fine, just as your Performa does with OS 8. There's no reason to expect continue compatibility with future software releases. They've already gone further than Microsoft did, when some PC's sold at the time of Vista's release weren't capable of running it (in fact, some of those sold as "Vista capable" weren't actually able to use many of the features, if they ran Vista at all). If there's a feature freeze anyways, why do you care if Snow Leopard doesn't run on your G5? It's just $129 wasted otherwise for you (since it's likely that the optimization would only truly benefit an Intel machine anyways, with it's multiple cores and other advantages).

jW

 

[slackpacker]

It would make zero sense to inject PPC in a later preview build. That would defeat the purpose of it being a developer build. Yes, the applications say "Universal" instead of "Intel" but those file sizes are awfully small.

It's called "Snow Leopard" and has no new features other than taking advantage of new technology... what would the benefits to PowerPC owers be?

All the Dual Proc G5's would love it. But thats it and everything else is really benfitial for intel only

 

[emulator]

While I believe Apple wants to move forward with their software code, leaving the G5 behind at this time is a big mistake. Some Video companies I know of still have G5s running because the cost to upgrade to an Intel machine was not in their budget. Since Apple has the code that will give both PPC and Intel versions of the software, my guess is that their starting to use only Intel calls in the code which would make it incompatible with the PPC.

And trust me, those companies don't care. In a production environment, you don't update your OS every year. I am sure they are still on Tiger.

 

[murphysm]

Developers Preview version

The screenshot clearly says "Developer Preview". I'm sure Apple doesn't want any developers creating PPC programs that aren't Intel compatible and therefore require an Intel machine to be used.

 

[Amdahl]

If people are using 10.4 with Classic, then they have no use for Leopard or its cousin Snow Leopard, do they? What's the problem?

The problem is that under Apple policy, Snow Leopard will be the end of security updates for Tiger, just as Leopard was the end of Security Updates for 10.3.