I understood snow leopard is on target for a year from now, Jan is not a year from now.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Mac OS X Snow Leopard Drops PowerPC Support
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I understood snow leopard is on target for a year from now, Jan is not a year from now.
Assuming the obvious is one thing, but since you are a professional software engineer you know how internal builds work.
They should make a seperate copy for Intel and PowerPC. Two disks, each for their own architecture. People would be happy then.
This isn't a bad idea but it would be nice if they could squeeze BOTH on to one install disk, let the computer decide what it needs thus simplifying the install process.
While I agree that a machine like Mac Pro should be able to serve for half a decade, I don't see what makes anyone think that isn't the case here.
The youngest G5's are two years old (apparently). It's beyond me why anyone would buy one in 2006 when the Intel transition was announced in June 2005, but whatever. Snow Leopard is coming out in the summer of 2009, not tomorrow. The youngest G5's will be three years old by then. Third parties will NOT drop PPC support immediately, you can count on another year's worth of support after the release of SL and those G5's will be 4 years old by then. That's not too shabby, 4 years is a good run.
Also, this "faith in Apple" thing. Even I, who only followed Apple at a distance for many years and didn't get my first Mac until 2005, am very well aware that Mac is the expensive high-maintenance route and that you can expect to be bummed out at least twice a year. With Windows PCs this there's really not much going on except when Intel launches a new platform (it sucked to have a Pentium II when the Pentium III came out, etc etc). But the rest is mostly small incremental updates in clock frequency and such, and the models are usually the same old boring black plastic bricks so there's little chance of being pwned in that regard. But with Apple, the longest time you'll ever be able to enjoy having the latest and greatest is usually about 6 months. When I got my alu iMac 24" 2.4 GHz in December last year, the guy at the desk next to me was miffed because he had a 6 month old white plastic iMac, and now I'm miffed because the 3.06 GHz iMac was announced when mine was only 6 months old, etc etc. My first Mac was a Mini G4 bought in the spring of '05, and I wondered how long it would take before I became one of those pwned suckers, and sure enough, after only a couple of months the Intel transition was announced rendering my shiny new toy obsolete. Yes, they make beautiful hardware and a wonderful OS, but man, forget this "faith" thing... the Apple ride is all about very expensive short bursts of joy soon to be crushed with a sledgehammer.
And you can still run 10.4 on your machine if you want AND use your 20 year software if you want. Nobody is FORCED to upgrade.
While not supporting G5's wont effect me any, I still think its kinda sad. Some of those Powermac G5's are awesome computers even today and I kinda have a soft spot for old hardware I guess. On the bright side I cant wait to see how Snow Leopard runs on my iMac.
What about Apple's announcement, or Snow Leopard, is not allowing you to do what you're doing now with your (or my) PowerMac G5? Yes they aren't giving you an operating system that will give you nearly the same experience you're currently getting. I suppose there's a risk that future Adobe or Microsoft software updates won't support PPC because of this Snow Leopard switch (though I doubt it).
But I can't upgrade to the current Final Cut Studio because of the limitation with my current hardware. I don't have a built in iSight camera so half of the features of Photobooth are out of bounds for me. I can't use Windows on any of my Mac's because I don't have the right equipment. Photoshop runs more efficiently on a Macbook than on my G4 Powerbook. But I don't blame Apple for this. This is the reality of computers getting older. None of these facts I've listed change how I'm currently using my computer, and they absolutely do not change the preconditions under which I bought my machines in the first place. Neither will Snow Leopard do this to you or any other G5 user out there. That's how I see it anyway.
Will it really piss you off that much if your kids don't have the latest OS when Snow Leopard comes out? It's not like the computer is still under warranty and it's not like your kids computer will be instantly obsolete when the intel-only OS comes out. By the time 10.5 becomes obsolete, your kids will have a new computer anyways and Apple will be on 10.7 or 8.
I've been running 10.3.9 for 4 years now with no problems. I have an iBook G4 1.2 Ghz and I never updated because I wanted to wait for 10.5, and by that time, I realized that it would slow my computer down. Sure, I don't have the latest version of Safari or Firefox because it supports 10.4 or later, but who cares. I have an old version of Final Cut Pro that still runs fine (with DV footage, I can't do HD).
The point I'm trying to make is 10.5 will last a good 3 to 4, maybe 5 years after the last update with little to no problems. Most programs (FCP, PS, FF, Safari) will still be writing new and updated code for 10.5 years after 10.6 comes out.
Well, how come my PowerComputing PowerTower Pro doesn't support Snow Leopard? I'm so angry that Apple is dropping PPC support.
But honestly, there is nothing wrong with Leopard or even Tiger. Most new software requires 10.3 or later, at most 10.4 or later. I expect this trend to continue with Snow Leopard with most software requiring 10.4 or 10.5. Believe me, you really don't NEED the latest operating system from Apple to be productive or have great stability. Tiger is one of the most stable versions of OS X to date. Leopard added many new features, yes, but the true "power users" (those who would own Power Mac towers - the graphic designers, the video editors, the audio editors, the developers, etc) shouldn't be primarily concerned with having the latest-and-greatest.
But honestly, there is nothing wrong with Leopard or even Tiger. Most new software requires 10.3 or later, at most 10.4 or later. I expect this trend to continue with Snow Leopard with most software requiring 10.4 or 10.5. Believe me, you really don't NEED the latest operating system from Apple to be productive or have great stability. Tiger is one of the most stable versions of OS X to date. Leopard added many new features, yes, but the true "power users" (those who would own Power Mac towers - the graphic designers, the video editors, the audio editors, the developers, etc) shouldn't be primarily concerned with having the latest-and-greatest.
A lot of the PowerMac buyers and high end iMac buyers are creative professionals. Without native support for photoshop etc, PPC was the best option at the time.
I was forced to buy PPC after the switch to intel second had as Apples own Applications such as Final cut pro wouldn't run under rosetta.
Apple made people pay for an upgrade to an Intel version of Final Cut, i think it was about 6-7 months after intel came in.
That's the same boat I'm in, I have a MBP CD, it is over 2 years old, I will install Snow Leopard but by the time 10.7 drops (2 more years) I will have a newer machine, 4 years is about all I expected anyways. Not saying this machine will be useless, I may keep it as a backup or sell it, we'll see.
I love how a bunch of people without inside knowledge work themselves into a lather about Apple screwing them over a year from now based on a single screenshot of a developer preview.
I'm not covered by an NDA so I have absolutely no idea what Apple's going to do. For all anyone not covered by an NDA knows, Apple's decided the best way to support PPC users is to back port selected fixes and enhancements from 10.6 to 10.5.x. Here's all that Apple's promised to be in Snow Leopard:
Exchange Support: Apple's enterprise market share was virtually non-existant in the PowerPC era. It's unlikely this is a big issue for people with iMac G5s and PowerBook G4s.
Grand Central: Until we see more of what Apple's talking about here, I'm skeptical this will be anything more than finally fixing their scheduler to correctly handle more than four cores and providing developer API support for NUMA in the 2009 Mac Pros. At most this will be of interest to the quad PowerMac G5 owners which already was a small subset of the PowerMac owners. The people who need the power have already moved on, or will by a year from now.
64-bit (i.e. up to 16TB): Mac OS X has handled the 16GB limit on the PowerMac G5s just fine in Tiger and Leopard.
QuickTime X: This could be back ported.
Safari 4: This could be back ported.
OpenCL: There have been rumors this would require a graphics card with uniform shaders in order to work, otherwise it would be emulated in software. If that's true, the AltiVec library on the G4/G5 would be better because no PowerMacs were shipped with video cards having unified shaders.
Stability Improvements: Who says Apple's going to stop updating Leopard? They haven't stopped updating Tiger.
Apple's going to want to keep maintaining Leopard and seriously consider back porting at least Safari 4 because not even all Intel owners will jump to 10.6 just as there are lots of people still using 10.4.
The only people I see being affected by this are G5 powermac owners, the rest of the machines from the ppc era probably won't be able to show the speed boosts apple is planning, or the ppc chips would run so hot with the speeds snow leopard is going to achieve.
(coming from an ibook owner) I think this is the right move, if it runs leopard its fine, but I am betting that it couldn't run a new OS better than it could run leopard.
(coming from an ibook owner) I think this is the right move, if it runs leopard its fine, but I am betting that it couldn't run a new OS better than it could run leopard.
Does anyone think snow leopard will come with the new nehalem computers whenever they rollout? I hope it does!
So, does this mean I can not load snowleopard onto my iPhone 1st Gen ? I really do not want to buy a 3G iPhone to get the Grand Centralizing in my phone calls. I guess the GPS chip handles the Quicktime X better though. But I am sure they will port Safari 4 onto ALL iPhones, with Flash (are you reading this Steve ?)
I guess drop all the PowerPC drivers, binaries and files (therefore dropping all the application sizes and increasing speed and efficiency), no new features, another $129 thankyouverymuch.
Dropping PPC support means NOTHING to speed and efficiency. Go strip all the ppc binaries from your OS X build now. Guess what? Nothing is faster.
I don't get why people think that code for another processor has anything to do with speed.
why are people cracking on about 10.6 just being a performance update, and 10.7 will be the new os x to bring new features, etc.
i say, after 10.6, bring on OS 11!
I think Apple will keep the X around for a long time to come (probably thru .9), OS 11 will be HUGE.
Disk space is not cheap, or plentiful, on SSD devices, and they are a big part of Apple's future laptop strategy.
Maybe because there was no Mac Pro in the first half of 2006, and Apple's official story was still that PPC machines would be produced and sold through 2007. The Mac Pro was only announced at WWDC in June 2006. If one read the tea leaves one might have guessed that it was coming, but still developers who were buying new machines at that time had to buy something. And nobody could forecast what the performance and stability of the first Mac Pros would be.
Yeh, and why not.
Apple releases a slow, bloated OS and then realizes it needs to do something about it. So lets cast off all the millions of pre Intel users. Who cares about them anyway. After all they aren't buying new computers so screw them.
You don't know what you're talking about. Most of the posts on here are ridiculous. Leopard is *not* slow and bloated. You guys act like Apple is going to optimize current apps. Its got nothing to do with that. What SL is about is about providing NEW tech for developers to be able to handle more cores better. That's what makes it faster.
SL will run just as fast on your MacBook Pro as Leopard does. It will even run as fast on an octo-core Mac Pro. What's different is that APPS that the OS runs can be far more efficient and USE the octo-core power a lot better. So an app like Final Cut Pro will be able to max out the CPU. iCal won't be faster. Finder won't be faster. Photoshop and FCP and those kind of apps can be faster.
Sheesh.
i say, after 10.6, bring on OS 11!
These suggestions that Apple will soon be going to OS XI are rather ridiculous. That would imply an entirely new OS base. In 2005, at the same time he announced the PPC->Intel transition, Steve Jobs said that OS X was set to be Apple's software platform for the next 20 years. And even if that was a bit of Jobsean hyperbole, it should mean 10 years from then at least.
Not to mention you can either convert those to FreeBSD 8 with ZFS now being sponsored by Yahoo or you can put Linux on their like Debian and continue on using them.
There seem to be a lot of people who think the G5 system architecture is somehow bad tech now...
My current dual 2Ghz G5 is still faster than my 2.33 Ghz Core2 machine (sure it is a laptop, but it should be faster right?)
If Apple drops support for G5 systems this soon, they will probably be looking at a class action suit...Apple promised a 64bit machine with the G5 systems.
Suddenly dropping PPC support in the OS is not going to magically make your Intel box run faster. The only thing that will make your box faster is better code. Having PPC binaries on your Intel machine does not make it run slower, it just eats HD space. Just as Intel binaries just eat space on my G5.
I say it is too soon to drop PPC support completely. The G5 machines still have a few years left in them.
Should be interesting. For a specialized pro-level machine though, 2-3 years of shelf life should be adequate. For all the people who invested in PCI-X cards for those specialized systems...you really ought to research it out more. All of my specialized video gear at work is external and FireWire based...just because I know Apple likes pulling **** like this all the time.
We could be doing this all again in 3 years when IBM puts the major spank on Intel.
-mark
My current dual 2Ghz G5 is still faster than my 2.33 Ghz Core2 machine (sure it is a laptop, but it should be faster right?)
If Apple drops support for G5 systems this soon, they will probably be looking at a class action suit...Apple promised a 64bit machine with the G5 systems.
Suddenly dropping PPC support in the OS is not going to magically make your Intel box run faster. The only thing that will make your box faster is better code. Having PPC binaries on your Intel machine does not make it run slower, it just eats HD space. Just as Intel binaries just eat space on my G5.
I say it is too soon to drop PPC support completely. The G5 machines still have a few years left in them.
Should be interesting. For a specialized pro-level machine though, 2-3 years of shelf life should be adequate. For all the people who invested in PCI-X cards for those specialized systems...you really ought to research it out more. All of my specialized video gear at work is external and FireWire based...just because I know Apple likes pulling **** like this all the time.
We could be doing this all again in 3 years when IBM puts the major spank on Intel.
-mark