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Mac OS X Snow Leopard Drops PowerPC Support

noob job said:
THANK YOU!

My point exactly. This is not to stablize the OS or any of the other BS. It is to drive hardware sales. Plain and simple.
Click to expand...

Well, perhaps that's a little cynical. I would say, simply, that the OS that PPC machines run isn't a huge concern to Apple. They make their OS to give their machines a compelling selling point, and they aren't selling PPC machines any more. It's not necessarily that they're trying to force PPC users to upgrade (although this may be a secondary effect) but that instead they're not going to see enough return (from OS upgrades) to make it worth their while.
 
napabar said:
Besides, most of Apple's explosive Mac sales have been since the Intel transition.
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AND the easy use of WINDOWS on the machine itself. THAT is what has been driving the intel sales.

I can't remember how many times I heard sales people in Apple stores pitch "And it will run windows" even Apple's own commercial commented how "mac laptop runs windows faster..."
 
noob job said:
AND the easy use of WINDOWS on the machine itself. THAT is what has been driving the intel sales.

I can't remember how many times I heard sales people in Apple stores pitch "And it will run windows" even Apple's own commercial commented how "mac laptop runs windows faster..."
Click to expand...

Good, then you have changed you mind and agree with me. Apple is not trying to force upgrades to goose Intel Mac sales, because they have been a roaring success.
 
napabar said:
Good, then you have changed you mind and agree with me. Apple is not trying to force upgrades to goose Intel Mac sales, because they have been a roaring success.
Click to expand...

ummmm, no, I still don't agree that dropping PPC is a good idea to those of us who still have these perfectly good machines.

Apple sales would be #1 if they dropped Mac OS X support and just supported Windows.

Is that a good idea?

They would get a premium for these machines AND have no OS development cost!
 
noob job said:
ummmm, no, I still don't agree that dropping PPC is a good idea to those of us who still have these perfectly good machines.

Apple sales would be #1 if they dropped Mac OS X support and just supported Windows.

Is that a good idea?

They would get a premium for these machines AND have no OS development cost!
Click to expand...

Would Macs be as compelling machines if they ran Windows? OSX is the main selling point of Macs IMO. Otherwise they're just overpriced PCs.
 
Vista vs 10.5

GotPro said:
Huh? In what warped sense is this Apple's "Vista"???

Vista was a bloated, ginormous eye-candy filled piece of **** that was coded so poorly that you had to have the very best hardware just to make it run slowly...

Snow Leopard is a lean, trim, mean massively multi-cpu aware OS that requires multiple cpus. To keep it lean and trim, they are shaving off PPC support...

How in the WORLD is that the same?
Click to expand...

Vista & Mac OS 10.5 by many accounts are not ready for prime time use. Mac OS 10.6 is Apple's attempt to correct this for Apple. Windows 7 is Microsoft's attempt.

Bill the TaxMan
 
noob job said:
Actually it is the ability to run WINDOWS that is the main selling point.

That is why intel macs are so popular.
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It's a Windows user's ability to safely convert to Mac that makes running Windows important. They aren't buying them to run Vista on alone.
 
unwinded said:
... The weakest Intel Mac they sell right now (The Mini) running in all-Rosetta mode (if that were even possible) would outperform your G4 PowerBook.
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Hahahaha, you got any sources to prove that? Have you ever used CS2 on an Intel Mac? I tried it on my 2,8 ghz iMac, and it was a little faster than on my G4 PowerBook, but crashed way WAY WAY more often. The more productive tool for CS2 would certainly be the G4. I quickly bought CS3 after I got the iMac, with CS2 it was more or less useless.
 
napabar said:
It's a Windows user's ability to safely convert to Mac that makes running Windows important. They aren't buying them to run Vista on alone.
Click to expand...

My point exactly! They weren't buying PPC because the only way to run windows was to buy another piece of software. And that didn't run it all too well anyway.
 
noob job said:
I bet the vast majority of people on here were pro-PPC before the switch.

"PPC Macs blow intel outta the water"

I remember hearing how crappy intel was and how "superior" PPC is. Now that Apple is all intel, the Apple cool-aid drinkers are fawning over intel and bashing the PPC.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to pick on you, but I've seen similar comments posted on various forums, so I'm going to respond here.

Apple's switch to Intel CPUs in the Mac coincided with Intel's introduction of the Core microarchitecture. Prior to Core, all we had were Pentium 4 CPUs based on the Netburst microarchitecture. Netburst was widely criticized from day 1 as being inefficient and slower than earlier chips at certain tasks, even though the Pentium 4 had much higher clock speeds. The Pentium 4 was garbage. Later revisions of the chip mitigated some of the problems, but such small evolutionary changes could not fix the underlying flaws. In many respects, G4 and G5 PPC chips were superior to Intel chips of this era.

That changed with the introduction of Core and Core 2 CPUs. PPC could no longer keep up with the advances being made on the Intel side because it simply did not have anyone behind it throwing vast amounts of money into R&D. For the tasks performed by a general-purpose, desktop computer, current Intel chips are superior to the older PPC chips in most (but not all) respects.

If Apple had announced a switch to Intel instead of introducing the G5 in 2003, I would've thought they were out of their minds; Intel chips at that time were laughable. But by the time it became obvious in late 2004 that the G5 had no legs and that IBM could not get Apple the chips they needed (a repeat of the problem with Motorola and the G4), Intel had started to right the ship and things looked more promising.

Comparing people's current attitudes on the issue of PPC vs. Intel to their attitudes of 3 to 5 years ago is disingenuous at best. The Intel switch was the right choice for Apple based on the technology that was available at the time. It's not as if nothing has changed with Intel since then.

-Matt
 
chaosbunny said:
Hahahaha, you got any sources to prove that? Have you ever used CS2 on an Intel Mac? I tried it on my 2,8 ghz iMac, and it was a little faster than on my G4 PowerBook, but crashed way WAY WAY more often. The more productive tool for CS2 would certainly be the G4. I quickly bought CS3 after I got the iMac, with CS2 it was more or less useless.
Click to expand...

It's tough to find modern Rosetta benchmarks. There were a lot of improvements in Rosetta and in OS X that sped up PowerPC apps on Intel Macs.

http://www.macworld.com/article/54005/2006/11/13inmacbookcore2.html

http://www.barefeats.com/quad13.html

Many of the available benchmarks were made on early Intel Macs or in some cases on the Intel transition development kit (when Rosetta lacked AltiVec support). It also wasn't discovered until later that Rosetta performed better with more RAM. Since nearly all apps are universal these days, I guess there isn't much of an interest for Rosetta. It does appear that the slowest Intel Mac available might run PowerPC code faster than any PowerBook. Not sure about stability though.
 
I Say

God! You PPC users keep complaining oh my G5,My G5. Please! I hope you die with you G5.(I have to be Blunt). For a company to move forward they have to drop the backwards crap to speed up the process, and better their products. Think I want my current OS bloated with sh*t I do not use. Large Binaries and so forth. Just to let you know, Intel Mac are on many desktops every where. I think it is safe to say there are more Intel Mac users, than PPC users.

Get this. You are whining because when Snow Leopard comes out, you want the latest and greatest. So drop PPC to get the latest and greatest and stop B**ching.
I see you got my point..

Also for the CS people. Half of you torrented that crap from a torrent site *cough thepirate.... *cough. The crap was hacked anyway. And the problems you are having with CS; that's Adobes problem. If they wanna stay in the stone age and not write code properly on their very bloated software (A remix of Vista in my eyes) then be it. But Apple is moving forward not backwards.


God Day to you! :D

GRAND EXIT!! & CUT..

Notice my post number #666..lol that was not intended..
 
Attention: Message From Steve Jobs!

phenixbleu said:
God! You PPC users keep complaining oh my G5,My G5. Please! I hope you die with you G5.(I have to be Blunt). For a company to move forward they have to drop the backwards crap to speed up the process, and better their products. Think I want my current OS bloated with sh*t I do not use. Large Binaries and so forth. Just to let you know, Intel Mac are on many desktops every where. I think it is safe to say there are more Intel Mac users, than PPC users.

Get this. You are whining because when Snow Leopard comes out, you want the latest and greatest. So drop PPC to get the latest and greatest and stop B**ching.
I see you got my point..

Also for the CS people. Half of you torrented that crap from a torrent site *cough thepirate.... *cough. The crap was hacked anyway. And the problems you are having with CS; that's Adobes problem. If they wanna stay in the stone age and not write code properly on their very bloated software (A remix of Vista in my eyes) then be it. But Apple is moving forward not backwards.
Click to expand...

Thank you!

Mr. Steve Jobs everybody!

PS. I hope I don't die with my G5.
 
phenixbleu said:
God! You PPC users keep complaining oh my G5,My G5. Please! I hope you die with you G5.(I have to be Blunt). For a company to move forward they have to drop the backwards crap to speed up the process, and better their products. Think I want my current OS bloated with sh*t I do not use. Large Binaries and so forth. Just to let you know, Intel Mac are on many desktops every where. I think it is safe to say there are more Intel Mac users, than PPC users.

Get this. You are whining because when Snow Leopard comes out, you want the latest and greatest. So drop PPC to get the latest and greatest and stop B**ching.
I see you got my point..

Also for the CS people. Half of you torrented that crap from a torrent site *cough thepirate.... *cough. The crap was hacked anyway. And the problems you are having with CS; that's Adobes problem. If they wanna stay in the stone age and not write code properly on their very bloated software (A remix of Vista in my eyes) then be it. But Apple is moving forward not backwards.


God Day to you! :D

GRAND EXIT!! & CUT..

Notice my post number #666..lol that was not intended..
Click to expand...

Agreed. Too many whiners here. At least some have confessed that they just plain hate Intel. The ones that claim they can't afford a new one, have you looked at the resales values on eBay? Unload that quad G5 and you might get nearly two grand for it. A new Mac Pro won't cost much more. AND that is only if you're worried about Snow Leopard rendering your system obsolete. It won't.

The purpose of Snow Leopard is to optimize the OS for Intel and the future and to take advantage of mostly Intel-only technology. When 10.6-only apps do start popping up, I'm sure it is only because they take advantage of these benefits and would be no good for the PowerPC crowd anyway. Unless it's your precious CS. Adobe will probably make all of CS4 Intel-only regardless of Snow Leopard.
 
I for one am pleased they are streamlining the OS for the latest mac hardware. Those using G5s and G4s can still use Tiger and Leopard, and if you really want the latest OS you can buy an Intel mac.

Get over it - your mac will still run fine without Snow Leopard. For the rest of us, Snow Leopard will be one lean, mean cat.
 
WalrusCP said:
I for one am pleased they are streamlining the OS for the latest mac hardware. Those using G5s and G4s can still use Tiger and Leopard, and if you really want the latest OS you can buy an Intel mac.

Get over it - your mac will still run fine without Snow Leopard. For the rest of us, Snow Leopard will be one lean, mean cat.
Click to expand...

And Intel Macs will run just as well without Snow Leopard (albeit not as optimally), so give me good reasons why Rosetta should be included. Non-universal apps are most likely just as old as the newest PPC macs, and have not yet upgraded, so it is unlikely that they will. It's not as though Leopard with Rosetta will stop working when Snow Leopard comes out. Why waste time and resources coding and optimizing Rosetta for Snow Leopard if Intel is the future?

If you need Rosetta don't get Snow Leopard.

Effectively that's what you're telling everyone with a PPC, why should you be any less inconvenienced? Most of the most expensive software is now universal and software costs an order of magnitude less than new hardware.


All that being said I'm still 100% convinced that PPC support will be in Snow Leopard since not one developer has produced proof of an official Apple announcement saying that PPC support will not be in Snow Leopard so that they can make an informed decision on whether or not to freeze current PPC versions of their apps or continue doing universal binaries in future releases.

For the record I have nothing against Intel, I have an aging G4 PowerBook that will likely be updated within the next two years and probably have no intention of buying Snow Leopard. My main beef is that if Apple were discontinuing PPC support in Snow Leopard, it should have been officially announced to developers now in order to avoid bad blood if they feel their time testing/optimizing code for the PPC was wasted.
 
Civil War

This is just like the american civil war

Mac(USA)

Intel-North

PPC-South

We all know who won the civil war :D

anyways whats the big deal about using leopard? not snow leopard, if you have a ppc enjoy it and leopard, it could always be worse you could be running vista:eek:
 
atszyman said:
And Intel Macs will run just as well without Snow Leopard (albeit not as optimally), so give me good reasons why Rosetta should be included. Non-universal apps are most likely just as old as the newest PPC macs, and have not yet upgraded, so it is unlikely that they will. It's not as though Leopard with Rosetta will stop working when Snow Leopard comes out. Why waste time and resources coding and optimizing Rosetta for Snow Leopard if Intel is the future?

If you need Rosetta don't get Snow Leopard.

Effectively that's what you're telling everyone with a PPC, why should you be any less inconvenienced? Most of the most expensive software is now universal and software costs an order of magnitude less than new hardware.


All that being said I'm still 100% convinced that PPC support will be in Snow Leopard since not one developer has produced proof of an official Apple announcement saying that PPC support will not be in Snow Leopard so that they can make an informed decision on whether or not to freeze current PPC versions of their apps or continue doing universal binaries in future releases.

For the record I have nothing against Intel, I have an aging G4 PowerBook that will likely be updated within the next two years and probably have no intention of buying Snow Leopard. My main beef is that if Apple were discontinuing PPC support in Snow Leopard, it should have been officially announced to developers now in order to avoid bad blood if they feel their time testing/optimizing code for the PPC was wasted.
Click to expand...


Well said! :)
 
While poking around inside a LEOPARD disc the other day, I came upon an 'instal 9.2.2' folder. AND a 9.2 startup pref pane-which had a circle with line thought it. interesting. also a 'hidden OS 9' executable black square thingy
I beleive it was in the OSInstal.mpkg

Thats another layer of crap they can strip away
 
seashellz said:
While poking around inside a LEOPARD disc the other day, I came upon an 'instal 9.2.2' folder. AND a 9.2 startup pref pane-which had a circle with line thought it. interesting. also a 'hidden OS 9' executable black square thingy
I beleive it was in the OSInstal.mpkg

Thats another layer of crap they can strip away
Click to expand...
If you have a PPC system can you try to use them?
 
seashellz said:
While poking around inside a LEOPARD disc the other day, I came upon an 'instal 9.2.2' folder. AND a 9.2 startup pref pane-which had a circle with line thought it. interesting. also a 'hidden OS 9' executable black square thingy
I beleive it was in the OSInstal.mpkg

Thats another layer of crap they can strip away
Click to expand...

I hated using "classic" in OS X. That is why I kept my PowerMac G3, with the Sonnett G4 upgrade. OS 9 games runs so much better on that machine.
 
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