Mac OS X Snow Leopard Drops PowerPC Support

[Xavier]

I dont see the big deal. If you bought a PPC in 2006, then that computer will last you many good years later running leopard.

In that mean time, you can get yourself a new (better) intel machine that will come pre installed with Snow Leopard. Awesome, and problem solved. You will forget all about PPC

 

[number9]

I have an Intel Mac, but I still feel that it's too early to drop support for PPC. They only stopped selling them 2/3 years ago. If Windows XP can run on computers with a 233MHz processor (which is what I had until last year), then Apple can run Snow Leopard on 2 year old computers.

ESPECIALLY G5s. That would be plain STUPID if they cut off support for G5s.

Hey, reality check--- That 233MHz processor of yours is still in the same family of processors that a Windows machine came with 2 years ago. You can't compare simply running at a much slower clock speed or with only one core instead of 2+ to OSX running on two completely different processor architectures between x86 and PPC. OSX already does what you say XP is capable of; you can run 10.5 on a brand new Mac Pro, or you can run it, albeit slowly, on a G4 iMac with 1/8th the amount of cores and a much slower clock speed. Think about what you're whining about before you actually whine.

I for one am glad that PPC is getting dropped...its the best for the OS. I currently have a first gen Intel iMac, and I'm almost positive that a year or so after Snow Leopard comes out, there will be talk/proof of 10.7 dropping 32 bit processors, leaving out my computer. But I'll deal with it...it's just how things work with tech.

 

[stephan.works]

I've found this very interesting article that gathers all the known news of Snow Leopard. Enjoy.

 

[usingpond]

I'm as ready to dump PPC support as the next guy, but seriously. Don't you think it would have been announced if Apple were officially dropping PPC support? Jesus Christ, why is this even a question?

Do you really think Apple would just walk into a PR nightmare like that, having people buy it on store shelves thinking it has PPC support 'cause no one told them otherwise?

So the PPC support is obviously either A) planned to be merged later on or B) up in the air at the moment.

I think we can all agree that Apple is definitely not ruling out PPC support; even if it makes sense to you, me, or anyone else. Please think a little people.

 

[Laco]

I only have an intel mac so this is probably good news for me if it makes the os better. I just wanted to add one more thing to all those people saying that its only been 2.5 years since ppc thats all well and true and that probably is too early to drop it BUT until it is released in "about a year" it will be 3.5 years or even more...and that in my opinion is a fair amount of time to drop it.

 

[Lil]

If it is the case that Apple is dropping PPC support with Snow Leopard in the final release version, 4 years which will be the age of a half decent iMac G5, and a PowerMac G5 which would be as much as only 3 years old is a good reason why Apple doesn't generally suceed in the enterprise too well.

Some businesses depend on machines lasting a bit longer than that cycle. And to call a computer that is 3 years old about useless or expired is something of nonsense and a by-product of this hugely consumerist economy and society we live in. Not to mention environmentally unsustainable.

Of course older machines will still run fine, in fact I am still using Tiger as Leopard doesn't really offer me anything compelling that would change the way I use my Macs. However, I'm also still using a 7 year old Dell which works just fine and whilst I won't be rendering Hollywood blockbusters on it, it's a fine machine to use.

I could understand better if Apple gave it 5 years or so before dropping PPC support (i.e. August 2011) which seems a fair lifecycle but in as little as 3-4 years, that's quite short. There again I see people buying a new laptop as much as once a year (if not every 6 months in one case...) -- what a waste.

If Snow Leopard was the last PPC compatible version, I think that would be perfectly acceptable if it is a release to tighten up the whole system by and large. After all, if this is just a re-compile to drop the universal/fat binaries and voila, that's a bit disappointing.

I'll be happily enjoying my eMac and PowerBook G4 12" for years to come on Tiger mind and I'm certainly not about to scald my perfectly fine old Dell with XP and install Vista.

 

[mreed911]

But other screenshots of this preview has Finder showing apps as Universal. If they were going to drop PowerPC support, surely the first thing they'd do is go through and skinny up all the binaries.

I think you misunderstand the difference between PowerPC, the chip and architecture, and Rosetta, which allows PPC apps to run on Intel Macs.

 

[SkippyThorson]

When I said they wouldn't drop PPC.....

Forget I said that.

It's not as if you can't run Leopard on those. Also, by the time this comes out--realistically first or second quarter 2009, is anything that you used to need cutting-edge stuff for still going to be any good on those?

Those machines won't explode and die when Snow Leopard comes out.

Exactly. No iBooks / PowerBooks / eMacs pulling a Steve-like Boom.

People need to stop worrying. I have a 1.33ghz iBook G4, and Tiger runs just great, and I have no desire to upgrade what already works. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Leopard isn't my cup of tea. I won't need any of the new features, I have my own version of Spaces which is just fine, I have the wallpaper, and my 2D dock is alright by me. Bugs from Leopard? I'll pass. I'm keeping Tiger, which has proven itself to be very stable and near bug-less after all it's time out in the open.

This however makes Leopard 10.5 seem like a filler to go from 10.4 to 10.6... All the new features and bugs makes it look like it was just pushed out to keep schedule between OS's. Like they just released what they had of the to-be 10.6 at the time, and they're fixing it as they continue towards 10.6.. Like the road leads you here, the end kind of thing for PPC, and still available for Intel if you'd like, yet a cleaner "snappier" version is on it's way.

I can't explain my impression too well. Like it's a filler - a rather less than Apple-typical transition point between 2 great OS's.

 

[unwinded]

Nope. Just Dual Cores and Quad Cores (2xDual Cores).
I have the 2.0GHz Dual Core PowerMac G5, the last gen of PowerMacs, and I have to say I think this is BS to drop PPC G5 support. If anything, drop G4 support. The Dual Core G5 PPC is a perfectly capable chip to run what ever Apple wants to throw at it.

Well G5 was only around for three years. G4 was available in the Mac Mini, eMac, and PowerBook/iMac along side G5 iMacs and PowerMacs for most of that time too. With laptops outselling everything else for the past five years or so, I'd be willing to wager that the G4 outsold the G5 in that time period. Wouldn't make much sense to drop G4 support and continue with G5.

I do see where you guys are coming from though. The last PowerMacs were 64-bit and multicore. Seems like they would benefit from Snow Leopard....

 

[iMpathetic]

The bitching has begun.

 

[mixel]

I don't think they'll be dropping Rosetta this soon.. Why would they? It'll carry on working. They don't need to do anything new to it as nobody's doing anything new on the PPC osX development front. It works too well to ditch, I mean, a lot of people must still be using CS2 or 1, or even Photoshop 7 etc. People would be seriously pissed if they were forced to upgrade everything to run the latest OS.

I can see them dropping support for the architecture to give new features and focus to the Intel people but why would they cripple a useful function the Intel guys have been using. Rosetta isn't bloat.

It's one thing saying they're not adding features, but *taking them away?*

 

[smartalic34]

this was going to happen eventually... and if it has to happen in order to make Mac OS X better for the future, than so be it. PPC macs are still supported, and still have Leopard. no new features are in 10.6, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.

the dropping of PPC code is part of what is making 10.6 faster, so keeping PPC support sort of defeats the purpose

although I feel bad for the quad G5 owners...

 

[Quillz]

I think it's a good move. The newest G5 computers are at this point nearly three years old. That's ancient in the tech world. Also, Snow Leopard will not add many end-user features, so it's not like the G5 is missing out on anything.

 

[milo]

Well... it's Mac. They should've seen it coming. Anyone who is concerned about legacy support should stick to Windows, where surprises are few and minor. When you take the Mac route you volunteer to replace your machine at frequent intervals, or be cut off with no advance warning.

They've been doing this for ages now. I still remember the puzzled look on a colleague's face as he unboxed his new Mac and went about pluggin in his $500 MIDI interface, only to find that the 9-pin serial port had somehow magically disappeared. Those unlucky souls had to have holes drilled in their Macs to install something called a "stealth port". Couple of years later, another colleague unboxed his new Mac and was about to connect his two Apple CRT monitors with VGA cables, but all he found on the back of the Mac was this wide white thingamabob now known as a DVI port. My first Mac was a Mini G4, I woke up one morning shortly after buying it and discovered that Apple had switched to Intel.

Apple wants to stay on the cutting edge, and if you wanna make an omelet you gotta break some eggs. Now the turn has come to G4 and G5 owners to be the eggs.

I wonder if it's your intention to talk people out of buying macs?

 

[sebastianlewis]

PPC users are not losing support!!! They can still run Leopard, Tiger, and even Panther if they so choose to. Snow Leopard brings no new features to current Leopard users. Snow Leopard is an optimized version designed specifically for Intel processors. Apple will still support Leopard for a while, which means that PPC users still get support. Had Snow Leopard brought some new feature equivalent to Time Machine that will not be available to PPC users, then you have a right feel miffed. But Leopard remains and so does the support. Quit complaining and acting like Chicken Little claiming the sky is falling.

Edit: The new features that will come out in 10.7 is when PPC support will officially be dropped, and that could be 2+ years from now.

Hmm, well let's see... Quicktime X, OpenCL, Grand Central, and Exchange support in Mail/iCal/Address Book. At least Safari 4 will run on both Leopard and Tiger as well, but let's face it, PPC support is not there, Apple's moved on, and both OpenCL and Grand Central will be very important to developers, and if they require Snow Leopard, then developers using OpenCL and Grand Central are going to target SL, not L or T.

Don't forget virtual machines. You can accomplish a lot with those. I wouldn't be opposed to using some kind of VM for rarely-used legacy support. You could, theoretically, run a Leopard VM to run programs that required Rosetta, Carbon or other deprecated APIs.

As for the PPC issue, well, that's life in the big city. It wasn't so long ago that a year old computer was hopelessly outdated. Things have slowed a little, but there's no reason to expect they won't speed up again.

Personally, I like that. It means new stuff is happening.

Anyway, I think the complainer folks obsession with long term support is overstated. Their current machines with Leopard will continue to work.

Running a Leopard VM just for Rosetta which itself is a translator for PPC to x86 is actually very backwards. They're better off dropping it. Only the GUI parts of Carbon were depreciated in Leopard, the rest will probably be depreciated in Snow Leopard but not removed.

I agree, fast upgrade cycles are a good thing.

Sebastian

 

[Bye Bye Baby]

Developers

But if this is a copy for developers, why would they want PPC code? Surely any new programs will be intel only.

I have a powerbook G4 and I am happy if really does bring out a kikin' new system OS that does what it says.

 

[jettredmont]

Complainers: please try to remember that your PPC computer will continue to work as it always has. This is for the benefit of all and the advancement of the OS.

I tried.

Ummm ... are you comfortable running an OS after support for it has ceased?

Effectively, if I can't buy a supported OS for a machine, it is dead.


Look, I see this as an incredibly stupid move for Apple, were they to carry it forward into the general release. I also would see not being up-front about it now an even stupider move.

If your customer base averages a 4-year computer buying cycle (which is fairly high-rate from home buyer numbers), then a 3-year obsolescence affects 25% of them. But, that's not the killer. The killer is that a small portion of those are multiple-computer households, who are buying a new machine every 1-2 years. You piss off 100% of your multiple-purchase households.

That's the killer: this short of a lifetime would breed discontent in a healthy portion of your casual buyers, but absolute animosity in every single one of your most loyal and consistent buyers.

It's a bad move. I hope Apple doesn't make it, for both selfish and non-selfish reasons.

 

[CaryMacGuy]

What is apple thinking???

Apple is making some strange decisions lately...

I can understand dropping some more PPC support. However, there are many very capable G5 Power Mac, G5 iMacs, and G4 Powerbooks. I maybe can understand dropping support for G4 iMacs, iBooks, and even MAYBE Mac Minis (I say that reluctantly).

Another thing...this "Service Pack" better not cost me $129 to purchase. This is what Apple should do:

Free or really cheap upgrade for anyone running Leopard
$129 Upgrade for everyone else.

Come on Apple! Don't let Windows 7 move ahead of Mac OS X (unlikely, I know)

 

[Ade-iMac-177]

really??!?!?!
I honestly didn't think they would drop it so quick - thank god i didn't by the PowerMacG5 i saw on eBay

 

[ilflyya]

useless

Wow! My macbook doesn't work anymore now that SL has been announced! It just won't turn on! It's useless! OMG!

Now, see how stupid that sounds?

 

[chenazhi]

,
Is that means the snow leopard system can be installed on a PC ??
??

 

[Joel Beason]

already another one ahhh

 

[morespce54]

Good. PPC is dead and has been for quite a while.

Yes? I didn't knew that.
I have one 2002 G4 933MHz 1.5GB (with Leopard on it) which I wanted to throw away but couldn't find any reason to do so since it's still working great...
Maybe that would be a good reason...

 

[MHerstand]

How is it stupid to buy a machine that natively supports all current applications and expect to get 3-4 years out of it?

It's not.

I know it's bound go happen sometime but it seems like this is about a year or two too early (and I am taking the fact that it won't be out until next year into account).

It's not. Apple will let you use your machine for 3-4 years. Heck, if the hard drive lasts, you could use it for 4-5 years. And Leopard 10.5.4/10.5.5... will be a perfectly good operating system 2 years out. Apple can't take a break from development simply because it hasn't hit the 3-4 year mark yet (which, by the way, it will have come next summer). Right now, they have the best operating system on the market and you can use it on your PPC model. There are very few new features that would be any good without a complete rewrite of the architecture. It makes no sense for them to create two versions of Snow Leopard because no one will be using PPC in another 2-3 years. Again, no one is losing out just because Apple is rewriting their NEXT operating system. It's slightly ironic that people complain that Apple is not letting them be cutting edge when they are, by choice, running a three year old computer (by next year).

I'd say the big announcement that should make people happy, is that even with this new operating system that is super advanced, it will only take 512mb of RAM to run it. Take that, Vista.

 

[andiwm2003]

i don't care much if Snow Leopard runs on PPC. It's ok that speed increases and disk space needs get optimized for intel only.

My concern is that this will not affect only the OS. It will mean that software updates from 3rd party vendors could require Snow Leopard and then you're forced to buy new macs.

And I can also imagine that .mac or "mobile me" will require Snow Leopard for certain functions.
Remember: Similar things happened with ".mac" when we got 1 day notice that all our macs have to run tiger to sync our computers. People with older macs suddenly couldn't sync them anymore because apple required Tiger and that didn't run on all old macs. let alone 1 day to run to the store buy Tiger for $129 and update a bunch of computers and the corresponding software.
Or remember how they dropped imovie HD because Steve thought the new imovie is cool although people needed it and had lots of money invested in plugins. At least they let you use imovie HD but for how long will it work on new systems?

complain about windows as much as you want but we had scientific instruments running on windows 95 working happily in a network with vista machines. and 7 year old software without updates would still run on windows xp.

if apple want people to set up their whole life around mobile me and break into the business market they better assure us that we will be able to use our systems for a long time even if we don't have the newest versions of Mac OS.