Mac OS X Updates Less Frequent

[wrldwzrd89]

OSX supports fat binaries, as did NeXTStep. This is a way of containing code compiled and optimised for different platforms within the same application container. This was originally intended to allow the same .app packages to run on both x86 and 680x0 hardware supported by NeXT, but the concept is equally valid for G4- and G5-optimised binaries and resources.

The functionality is already there. XCode can actually handle this automatically.

I don't think you understood me correctly. I was referring to the Mac OS X installer, not necessarily the applications (which may or may not be made into "fat" binaries). There would need to be two versions of the installer, but they can use common packages.

 

[jeffy.dee-lux]

I just got 10.3 a few weeks ago, now I find out that in a few weeks time they're releasing a new version. That kinda sucks!

hey buddy, it could be a lot worse... i bought jaguar last year on october 2nd, i believe, panther was officially announced less than a week later, offering a free upgrade or something for anyone who bought jaguar on or after october 8th.
And so began my account at macrumours.

 

[broken_keyboard]

Damn

Frequent OS updates is one of the best things about being a Mac user. I hope they don't slow down too much - they will surely miss the annual payment from all the die-hard fans.

 

[rweaver]

<snip>
They need to add the ability to control message-box buttons with the keyboard: I really wish being able to to "left-arrow, enter" to go from "OK" to "Cancel" on Windows. Forcing me to take my hands off the keyboard and fiddle with the trackpad is silly, IMHO.
<snip>

I think what you're looking to do is part of Panther. In the Keyboard & Mouse Preferences, select the Keyboard Shortcuts section and select the "Turn on full keyboard access" option. This allows you to tab thru the various options in the message boxes. To select the current selected option, just hit your spacebar. Using Return will still select the default action no matter what button you've selected using tab.

 

[york2600]

Hopefully this means that some of the core frameworks and APIs in Mac OS X have been bedded down. While it is a common refrain that "Mac hardware remains useful longer" (regardless if that is actually true or not), it is not as true for Mac operating systems. If you want access to the latest software, you really need to be running Jaguar (OS X 10.2) or later. I do understand the reasons for this...OS X 10.0 and 10.1 were really about Apple actually getting OS X to a state where it was truly 'finished', which having something modern and updated to ship to customers and developers in the meantime. But adding new graphical and usability features from here on in to OS X hopefully doesn't have to mean that new applications won't run on older versions of OS X. For example, Internet Explorer 6 still runs on Windows 98...the latest versions of Safari require OS X 10.2 or better.

A little more core OS/API stability would be nice.

Unless MS changed something you can no longer download IE for Win 98. 98 has been end of lifed and support (including downloads) was ended. Also the installer downloaded a different version for Win 98. It wasn't that MS hadn't changed anything between 98 and XP, but instead that they backported IE. Windows Media Player is the same. There's the XP version and the 98/ME/2k version.

 

[Mord]

OS X 10.0 came out in March 2001. That makes it a little over 3 years old.

sorry i started with the developers beta

 

[JFreak]

Frequent OS updates is one of the best things about being a Mac user. I hope they don't slow down too much - they will surely miss the annual payment from all the die-hard fans.

yep. no need for yearly updates, but once in 18 months would be nice. think about changing a laptop every 18 months... mmm that would effectively cut price for the 129 dollars that the upgrade costs (because the upgrade would have been bought anyway and it would be included with a new hardware puchase).

 

[fabsgwu]

My 64 bits

Slowing down the pace of upgrades may be code for developing the 64 bit OS; especially if Apple plans on maintaining 32 bit backwards compatibility, this will require more time in development for each iteration. Apple needs to have OS X at 64 bits soon to take advantage of the G5's true power.

Slowing the pace of releases in this time of heavy under-the-hood work is a good thing. Plus, Apple is still WAY ahead of Loghorn for what its worth.

 

[SiliconAddict]

I just got 10.3 a few weeks ago, now I find out that in a few weeks time they're releasing a new version. That kinda sucks!

Fact 1: Panther hasn't even been out a year. Almost exactly 8 months to the day as of now.

Fact 2: WE DON'T EVEN KNOW A RELEASE DATE FOR TIGER! At minimum we are prob looking at end of year before a release of Tiger. My money is on Spring '05 but that's purely a guess.

 

[qubex]

I think what you're looking to do is part of Panther. In the Keyboard & Mouse Preferences, select the Keyboard Shortcuts section and select the "Turn on full keyboard access" option. This allows you to tab thru the various options in the message boxes. To select the current selected option, just hit your spacebar. Using Return will still select the default action no matter what button you've selected using tab.

Wow, you've singlehandedly revolutionised my computing experience!

 

[7on]

They need to add the ability to control message-box buttons with the keyboard: I really wish being able to to "left-arrow, enter" to go from "OK" to "Cancel" on Windows. Forcing me to take my hands off the keyboard and fiddle with the trackpad is silly, IMHO.

You can press tab and that highlights the other option, and then press space to select that option (prolly only if full keyboard use it turned on) and I've seen apps not support this, but I'd say like 80% or more apps out there support this.

Apple will not drop 32-bit code anytimesoon. Reason being you can optimize an OS for 64-bit and still have it run on 32-bit hardware through the use of alternate extension.

I did have a list of the stuff that needs to be fixed in panther, now let me find it...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/71644/
scroll down

 

[SWC]

it's been 4 years since osx version 10.0.0 came out and there have been 2 upgrades that cost $ so make I it at $390

the thing is that the mac os comes with your mac at no extra cost and for self builders that $300 is a bit much.

Windows comes with store bought PC's at no extra cost. You can build a PC for much less than you can buy it in the store for. It's been cheaper to build a system over buying one for a long time. You can purchase a top end PC in the store for less than a top end mac. $300 is a bit much yeah im not saying I like the pricing my point was in the same timeframe that windows releases come out its more expensive to buy mac os if you get every version. Find me a place to buy components for a dual 2 gig G5 I can build myself for less than $2,700 and that point will be valid.

 

[~Shard~]

This is good news. Although I'm all for constant updates and improvements to the OS, it does get a bit much at times and I think it's asking a lot of the consumers out there to shell out $100+ every year for a new OS upgrade. I am curious to see what all Apple incorporates into Tiger though - it'll have to be very substantial for me to switch from Panther, and I don't see that happening...

 

[wrldwzrd89]

Windows comes with store bought PC's at no extra cost. You can build a PC for much less than you can buy it in the store for. It's been cheaper to build a system over buying one for a long time. You can purchase a top end PC in the store for less than a top end mac. $300 is a bit much yeah im not saying I like the pricing my point was in the same timeframe that windows releases come out its more expensive to buy mac os if you get every version. Find me a place to buy components for a dual 2 gig G5 I can build myself for less than $2,700 and that point will be valid.

I'm sorry, but you can't buy parts for a PowerMac G5 PowerMac G5 components simply aren't for sale new, and are exteremely hard to find used. There just isn't a way to build your own Mac easily - and that's the way Apple wants it to be.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Some thoughts.

Quite frankly I can understand why Apple has been on a breakneck pace for upgrading OS X. From every review I've read 10.0 sucked butt, 10.1 was somewhat improved, 10.2 was a godsend, and 10.3 is godlike. They have scrambled to get to the first peak of the mountain, Apple's setup base camp and they are now looking at climbing further taking their time on the way up to get it right, since Mac users now have a good solid reliable version of OS X. I think that is why they were on an insane release schedule: They risked loosing major traction against MS if they didn't get OS X to the point where Panther is now at.
IMHO this is a good development. I want apple to take their time and really blow our socks off. The major feature of Panther was Expose which while a very nice feature didn't blow the collective computing community's socks, shoes, and pants off. Am I the only one who wants a bonanza from Apple? A release that doesn't just add a few new cool features but changes how we interact with our computer? Love or hate MS they are trying a few new things in Longhorn in regards to 3D interfaces. Whether or not this is going to end up being tacky and craptastic is a debate for another thread but the point is they are trying to push the GUI. What changes has OS X's GUI had in the first 3 revisions? Isn't it time for some honest to god innovations in the department of thinking different?
This is why I'm hoping Apple isn't going to be releasing Tiger for at least another year. Its time to take off the gloves against MS. I want Microsoft to be embarrassed as hell when Longhorn comes out. I want Longhorn to be torn a new one by Tiger, Lion or whatever big cat is unleashed in 2006.

 

[JGowan]

Wow, you've singlehandedly revolutionised my computing experience!

No,... I think it was Apple.

 

[Mord]

SWC

the pc venders pay microsoft for oem copys of windows and they put that cost on the customer was there anything incorrect in my post? no so what was with the angry tone

yes i am awear that most self builders pirate windows or have linux

 

[~Shard~]

Fact 2: WE DON'T EVEN KNOW A RELEASE DATE FOR TIGER! At minimum we are prob looking at end of year before a release of Tiger. My money is on Spring '05 but that's purely a guess.

Exactly - although Jobs may be showing us a sneak peak of Tiger at WWDC in a month, I don't see a release date for it anytime soon - Panther only started shipping, what, last November? To make Tiger significantly better and more functional than Panther (i.e. to make it worth upgrading to), there's going to have to be a lot of work done on it and a lot of new features added, which will all take time. I don't see Tiger being released until 2005 for sure.

 

[JGowan]

...From every review I've read 10.0 sucked butt, 10.1 was somewhat improved, 10.2 was a godsend, and 10.3 is godlike.

Actually, 10.0 just plain sucked. The $29 BETA (yes, I bought it) was the butt-sucker.

 

[AndrewMT]

This is kind of off-topic, but will OSX ever have an automated program folder and add/remove control panel like windows? It's been about a year since I worked on a mac (waiting for PB G5), but I always had to create my own program shortcut folder in the dock and then manually create and drag aliases into it. Does everyone who wants this feature have to do this or am I missing something? Also, while it is easier to delete programs in OSX (sometimes a program is just one file), users shouldn't have to scour their hard drive to manually remove programs.

Now, I can pretty much show my grandma how to install a program (just click next next next) and uninstall it later (just go to add/remove cp) in windows. I do not think I could do the same for OSX.

Another update I would like to see added is additional themes (I want to see a darker, more professional theme similar to the look of Apple's pro application web sites - like motion's site). I would also like it if OSX had more cool animations and transparency effects similar to what longhorn is going to have. Added 3d functionality, similar to Sun's 3d desktop, would also be cool.

 

[iLilana]

torn

can't figure out if its a good thing or not.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

This is kind of off-topic, but will OSX ever have an automated program folder and add/remove control panel like windows? It's been about a year since I worked on a mac (waiting for PB G5), but I always had to create my own program shortcut folder in the dock and then manually create and drag aliases into it. Does everyone who wants this feature have to do this or am I missing something? Also, while it is easier to delete programs in OSX (sometimes a program is just one file), users shouldn't have to scour their hard drive to manually remove programs.

Now, I can pretty much show my grandma how to install a program (just click next next next) and uninstall it later (just go to add/remove cp) in windows. I do not think I could do the same for OSX.

Another update I would like to see added is additional themes (I want to see a darker, more professional theme similar to the look of Apple's pro application web sites - like motion's site). I would also like it if OSX had more cool animations and transparency effects similar to what longhorn is going to have. Added 3d functionality, similar to Sun's 3d desktop, would also be cool.

An automated program folder is simply unnecessary with Apple's implementation of applications-as-packages and all apps in the Applications folder. Having uninstall support for programs installed using Apple's Installer would be nice (third-party installers must use the equivalent third-party uninstaller).

 

[itsa]

CNet reported last week that Apple will be slowing the pace of Mac OS X releases in the future.

Apple has released 3 major updates to Mac OS X since it's initial release in 2001. A preview of the newest version (Tiger; Mac OS X 10.4) is due at the World Wide Developer's Conference in June of this year.

Apple's Chief Software Technology Officer Avie Tevanian is quoted as saying "We're slowing that (pace) down a little bit...because that's not a sustainable rate." But does promise that "You'll still see us go really fast".

He did not say they would slow down working on the release. Just the "releases" would slow down.
That just means when they do "release" we get more OS for the same money!
That is a great trade off.

 

[JFreak]

will OSX ever have an automated program folder and add/remove control panel like windows? I always had to create my own program shortcut folder in the dock and then manually create and drag aliases into it. Does everyone who wants this feature have to do this or am I missing something? Also, while it is easier to delete programs in OSX (sometimes a program is just one file), users shouldn't have to scour their hard drive to manually remove programs.

no, there's no need to. it doesn't matter if the preference file is left behind, it is after all a tiny text file and affects no other software than the one using it. your grandma has to install and uninstall thousands of apps to get even a megabyte of wasted hard disk space because of the prefs, and if for some reason your grandma accidentally deletes some programs you can get her up and running with her own preferences by simply installing the apps again.

to state that users shouldn't have to access the hard drive, that's just wrong. user accesses the hard drive constantly by creating and deleting documents, and an application is nothing more than a file with a specific function. there's nothing wrong in user deleting an application. an app package is only a folder with files inside. it's simple enough to delete an app package that looks like a file. and it is as manual to drag the package to trash than to tell some other app to do the same thing. manual thing is that the user decides to delete the app, and how it's done is secondary.

your point regarding the dock, i don't quite understand. are you telling it's too much to drag the applications folder next to the trash? that way the dock behaves just as the start button in pre-xp windows. or are you complaining that you have to manually drag an alias from newly installed app to the dock? that's preferred behaviour, as the dock is a user object that has a set of aliases the user has wanted to create. not all apps need to be in the dock, you know. i myself just hate it if some app installer decides that the app is so important it deserves to be aliased into the dock. that's just bad behaviour.

 

[wdlove]

I don't think you understood me correctly. I was referring to the Mac OS X installer, not necessarily the applications (which may or may not be made into "fat" binaries). There would need to be two versions of the installer, but they can use common packages.

I think that as has been mentioned before, couldn't there be a DVD version for the G5 and the CD for all other Mac's. We are just along for the ride in all the decisions!