Mac OS X x86 uses TCPA

[real_murray]

How is this any different from what we have right now? Except for the few "clone years", you have NEVER been able to run any of Apple's Operating Systems on anything other than Apple Hardware. Why would we expect this to change?

Apple's control over the hardware is both a blessing and a curse. It is good because EVERYTHING JUST WORKS TOGETHER. It is bad because you as a consumer are locked into a single hardware vender. But it has always been this way!

Did you honestly think you'd run OS X on your $200 E-Machines?

Nothing new. Move along.

We found out that the Rosetta kernel uses TCPA/TPM DRM.
Currently their are no ways known to get the GUI working on non-Apple hardware, with this protected kernel.
Even with a SSE3 enabled cpu you will never get the GUI.
Read more about TCPA here: http://www.againsttcpa.com/tcpa-faq-en.html

Apple really made sure that it won't be easy to run OS X on non Apple hardware, not even the transition box version.

Btw, what they mean with the Rosetta kernel is the kernel that is installed on the transition boxes. It is different from the darwin kernel, as it integrates support for rosetta.

Hope this hasn't been posted before.

 

[pubwvj]

How is this any different from what we have right now? Except for the few "clone years", you have NEVER been able to run any of Apple's Operating Systems on anything other than Apple Hardware.

I think that most people don't object to this aspect of the TCPA. It is the locking down of songs, movies, books, etc. Imagine that your music collection gets locked to your current notebook computer. Then the computer dies the big one - total loss - pick your cause but it is gone. No problem though! You have a backup of your data - you've been good about keeping it up to date. You just buy a new computer, load your data into your new home directory and - YOWZA! - the Digital Rights Management software won't let you use your old data on your new computer!!! FREAKIN-A! What's this! All your songs, your movies, your books, your software, even the data you created is locked to your old processor!!! Gee-whiz - too bad...

That is but one example of how TCPA can be badly abused. There are many other scary, nasty, likely scenerios that will bite legitiment users who are not pirates.

DRM is a very bad idea in the current schemes and TCPA is one of the worst.

 

[alex_ant]

Ok, fair arguments here. But following your path would indicate that iTunes should not have been successful because everyone would be using BitTorrent. And we know that its not true. And if I can keep your attention span for a little longer, it is also reasonable to assume that if customers had a choice regarding DRM in iTMS, none of them would really want it. Despite all this millions of users use iTMS with DRM. Now why is that? Is it not because the iTMS is convenient? So the logical conclusion of your arguing would be that the iTunes Music Store would be even more succesful if it didnt deploy DRM at all.

iTunes is a drop in the bucket... it's the AOL of online music: A convenient central location for all the kinds of content one can get elsewhere for free. The point is that iTunes' convenience is being eroded by improvements in ease of use of p2p. The apps are certainly getting nicer and more convenient, written in Cocoa and designed to automatically integrate the music you pirate into iTunes for you. The iTMS can only do so much that other apps can't illegally. And there is not yet any iTunes for software or movies (divx quality) or anything else besides music.

 

[alex_ant]

I think that most people don't object to this aspect of the TCPA. It is the locking down of songs, movies, books, etc. Imagine that your music collection gets locked to your current notebook computer. Then the computer dies the big one - total loss - pick your cause but it is gone. No problem though! You have a backup of your data - you've been good about keeping it up to date. You just buy a new computer, load your data into your new home directory and - YOWZA! - the Digital Rights Management software won't let you use your old data on your new computer!!! FREAKIN-A! What's this! All your songs, your movies, your books, your software, even the data you created is locked to your old processor!!! Gee-whiz - too bad...

Why would any company implement DRM like that? eBook DRM for example allows you to authenticate against a central server, so if your computer dies you can copy your backed up eBooks to your replacement computer and re-authenticate your new (free) copy of Adobe Reader at the Adobe website. It's really quite convenient.

Don't automatically assume the worst about what companies will do with DRM. They don't want to piss you off so much that you won't buy their stuff. They have no incentive to make your life miserable, unless you are a serial software pirate.

 

[pubwvj]

Why would any company implement DRM like that? eBook DRM for example allows you to authenticate against a central server

Hmm... and what happens when that company goes belly up and their servers no longer are available to re-authenticate? Companies do implement DRM like that and it is a nasty club swinging at consumers heads in the dark. People don't see it coming but it is still there. Duck.

 

[pubwvj]

The (p2p) apps are certainly getting nicer and more convenient, written in Cocoa and designed to automatically integrate the music you pirate into iTunes for you.

You mean music that you pirate. A great many of us get our music legally via buying the CD's, cassettes and using iTunes, eMusic, etc. It is unfortunate that you are pirating. iTunes Music Store has made a big dent in illegal downloads by offering an easy and inexpensive alternative to consumers.

 

[Starfury]

I think that most people don't object to this aspect of the TCPA. It is the locking down of songs, movies, books, etc.

I don't think that most people understand the potential behind TCPA to realise what they are / are not objecting to.

It is important to differentiate between DRM and TCPA. Generally speaking, DRM (such as that used by iTunes) is like a 'lock' on a file (such as a music track). TCPA is much further reaching than that.

What TCPA essentailly does is transfer control of your computer away from you. If you work in a corporation, your computer could be set up to delete all your emails after six months. Or you could be prevented from forwarding compromising emails, or printing those asking you to behave unethically or illegally. Of couse, on the flip-side, there are many advantages to this, such as preventing unauthorised leaks of intellectual property.

For consumer systems, the same power would remain, but would be manifested differently, perhaps along the lines of current, file-based, DRM solutions (perhaps here is where the confusion lies).

I refer your to my previous post which (I hope) provides a clear analogy of DRM and TCPA:

Let's take my house as an example. I can choose to lock it with sophisticated anti-theft devices, or to leave it unlocked. No matter which option I choose, my house (and its contents) remains mine. If someone opens the door and takes my television, it is illegal whether or not I have locked the door. Just as locks don't determine my ownership of my house, DRM doesn't determine someone's intellectual copyright over a creation.

And DRM (or a house lock) is one thing. But imagine that you no longer have control over your house. That the company that built it has ultimate control - they can lock you out if they want, they can stop you plugging in the television of my choosing, they can prevent you from watching your home videos on my DVD player. This is Trusted Computing.

This is why many people have a problem with the concept. The real question is do the benefits outweigh the disadvantages?

I suspect if the relative functions / capabilities of TCPA and DRM were laid side-by-side in a neutral and unambiguous way, most people would object to TCPA over DRM.

 

[Starfury]

Nothing new. Move along.

Yes and no.

The accuracy of your statement depends on the issue you are addressing. If you are talking about Mac OS X being unable to run (widely) on non-Apple hardware, I wholeheartedly agree. Nothing new there.

What is new is the way that Apple appears to be locking OS X to the developer hardware. Via TCPA (Trusted Computing).

I would commend anybody with the time to read about TCPA and make their own mind up about the technology. However Apple implements it (if at all), it is designed to be capable of much more than simply limiting OS X to Mac hardware.

 

[monkeydo_jb]

Does this help?

 

[alex_ant]

You mean music that you pirate. A great many of us get our music legally via buying the CD's, cassettes and using iTunes, eMusic, etc.

and let's be fair, a great many of us don't, which is the whole problem

It is unfortunate that you are pirating.

har nice assumption

iTunes Music Store has made a big dent in illegal downloads by offering an easy and inexpensive alternative to consumers.

Another nice assumption. Nobody has any idea of the % of music that is downloaded illegally vs. the % that is downloaded via iTunes. You just automatically assume that iTunes took a big chunk out of illegal downloads. You have no way of backing that up with any real evidence and I find it unlikely anyway.

"Gee I'm glad Apple has given me the opportunity to download 10 albums for just $100. Now I won't have to download illegally anymore." Yeahright.

 

[alex_ant]

Hmm... and what happens when that company goes belly up and their servers no longer are available to re-authenticate? Companies do implement DRM like that and it is a nasty club swinging at consumers heads in the dark. People don't see it coming but it is still there. Duck.

A company going under would have no incentive to cancel its authentication service. Most likely their assets would get bought out and the buyer would continue the authentication service. Companies that do DRM like this DO NOT WANT to piss off the consumer. They realize they already are to some extent, and since their whole business model depends on people being able to actually use what they've downloaded, they have every inclination to keep the authentication service running through even the worst of times.

 

[alex_ant]

What's this?

Apple isn't using TCPA/TPM in the x86 Macs? Oh no. It can't be. How will I continue to spend all day in front of my computer railing against another evil soul-stealing megacorporation? Surely this is merely a 'cloaking of the Death Star' so to speak. A plot... a ruse, by $teve Job$ and his henchmen. The chip is in there somewhere, it's just hidden and nobody can talk about it because of the NDA. Yes. I will continue my Apple boycott. Me and my hairy cohorts will crush them!!!

Freedom wants to be free, or it isn't free but it wants to be free, or something!!!!


.....





I wish girls would like me.

 

[pubwvj]

You just automatically assume that iTunes took a big chunk out of illegal downloads. You have no way of backing that up with any real evidence and I find it unlikely anyway.

Actually there was a study that was recently published on this. If you care enough, then Google for it.

 

[pubwvj]

A company going under would have no incentive to cancel its authentication service. Most likely their assets would get bought out and the buyer would continue the authentication service.

Not if there is no financial incentive for the buying company. It costs money to maintain the authentication service.

 

[siliconjones]

I think this sounds like good news. Since Apple has much more control over the hardware in OS X systems they will be able to do the transition to TCPA a lot faster than Microsoft.

If Apple does introduce TCPA throughout the entire Mac lineup it will most likely mean that I as an Apple customer will have access to a lot more digital content sooner and almost certainly with an easier interface compared to the general Windows user.

Go ahead and be a media whore at the cost of your Civil Liberties.

 

[iwitch]

Onizuka, Rock On

I'm not really worried about this.

Why? Because, I've bypassed my XBox and modded it so that content can be ripped to it straight from disc or FTP. I can mod Powermac as well.

No corporation is going to tell me what I can and cannot do with the data I have or want to. If I want five girls going at it either in picture or movie format on all of my devices at home, then I should be able to do that. If I wanna copy CD's and records I bought with MY money, then I will use them and distribute them among my home as I please.

And if an underground band gives me a disc to listen to, and says "pass the demo along to whomever you want" I will do so.

Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, The Pope, My Parents, My Girl, The RIAA/MPAA/BSA, Disney, McDonalds, hell, even GOD won't stop me.

And if you think you can stop me, I say c'mon. Prove it bIOTCH.

And with my very first post I say, Amen you luscious geek...I salute you.

 

[Loke]

From appleinsider.com:

Comes 2006, Apple's licensing of its FairPlay DRM may also be an issue, as labels have recently begun shipping copy-protected CDs that are not compatible with the popular iPod.

As I have been claiming all along in this thread. If RIAA could choose, theyd rather see the iPod to go away, and they think the $0.99 pricetag in iTMS is too low.

Source: http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1223

 

[Loke]

Apple isn't using TCPA/TPM in the x86 Macs? Oh no. It can't be. How will I continue to spend all day in front of my computer railing against another evil soul-stealing megacorporation?

By now you surely know your claim to be false, however it was perhaps more convenient to **** about it, and instead continue to mock people? Reading your earlier self-proclamations one should think you would be the first in line to critizise Apple for this move. But it turns out you are just a simple and tiny corporate whore after all, despite all this pretending to be a bad boy.

 

[minimax]

I'm not worried about Apple so much as everyone else.

This is my favourite quote from the discussion untill now. It shows the essence of TPM: you have to TRUST your software and hardware corporations to use the technology like they SAY they are using it. There is nobody (apart from some crackers hopefully) that could establish exactly what information they are gathering from your computer.

The second is the almost shockingly naivity with which people (mac 'zaelots'/ users) trust a corporation (Apple) to share your interests. Let me tell you this, I love my mac, but there is not a more totalitarian computing system in the world. You buy your Mac in an Apple Shop. Your computer is designed by Apple, the hardware architecture is (for now) owned/ co-developed by apple, the OS is by Apple. Your Portable musicplayer is from Apple, the software to play the music on your ipod is from Apple, the online shop and the software to get there to buy your music is from Apple. Apple 'controls' everything from top till bottom, and now they will control the way you use it as well.
Some of the responses I've heard here are so incredibly naive / opportunistic it makes be feel ashamed what the mac user community apparently has become. Apple is not just a computer / digital entertainment corporation, no it's a religion, and as in every religions, belief colors your perception of reality.
You trust your destiny in the hands of the one almighty, and follow the rules set in the sacred book

So...does anybody remember the '1984' advertisement of the Macintosh? It certainly must be the most cynical commercial of all times. Your 'Trusted Corporation' will have the ability of Total Control. Have fun but I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid.

 

[crap freakboy]

Great post m8.
Thats all.

 

[Counterfit]

but I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid.

Oh c'mon, it's fruit punch flavor!

 

[minimax]

Oh c'mon, it's fruit punch flavor!

The fruit punch flavor makes it very tempting indeed