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G4PPC

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Upgrading the RAM on an iBook is an easy ordeal. Simply remove the keyboard, AirPort card, and RAM cover and you have access to the RAM slot. Upgrading the hard drive is a rather daunting task for those inexperienced with computer repair.
yep I found the tools for it and only needed a Philip screw driver to reach the ram, as for Hard Drive I have no Idea but I have seen g4 iBook's that were taken apart to expose the drive but how you get it apart I don't know. For the ram that is easy to get to. what if I got an external Hard Drive can the G4 boot from one or can it boot from a USB drive. Because I am thinking of turning my current G4 iBook into a desktop using a mini VGA to VGA adapter that I ordered and just upgrading the ram, then although I want to keep my PPC iBook going I think I'm going buy a Intel Mac Laptop next and just use this as a desktop Mac PC, because Windows is going out after windows 7 that has already reached it's extended Support phase and is no longer officially supported.

I'm just trying to get myself prepared and there are some Intel only apps that I'll probably need with out a Microsoft Windows Computer. I'm trying to dump windows I'm a long time PC user that is not switching to windows 8 or 10. lol
 

Altemose

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The iFixit guides will also have a list of all necessary tools for the repairs. Using an external hard drive as the boot drive would give unacceptable performance.
 

MacCubed

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Yeah, for booting off an external drive, USB 3 would be best since it is much faster. I use PowerBook Medic for my guides,. They have both videos and physical guides, as well as parts for a fair price
 

G4PPC

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Thank you all. I believe my problems are solved for now.

Yeah, for booting off an external drive, USB 3 would be best since it is much faster. I use PowerBook Medic for my guides,. They have both videos and physical guides, as well as parts for a fair price
That is just what I was thinking I was going order a Usb Drive, I have a 32gb but thought I should get a 64gb drive, I'm going boot from the internal drive and just when I download stuff store it on the USB and keep a back up on there. I order my 1gb Memory chip it didn't cost much. I've give that PowerBook Medic a shot, and I probably will buy a cheap non-working iBook to study as well and maybe learn how to take it apart.

Thanks Again, best regards..
 

Cox Orange

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RE: using USB external drive

ehm, well I experienced that USB3 is even faster on USB2 than USB2 on USB2 (not much difference though and depends on the chip, there are even USB3 that won't work with the ibooks USB2 port), but why not prefer Firewire400 on the ibook he has? Also, from what I recall booting off a PPC from USB is a pain.

I have a 320GB 5400rpm WD drive inside my ibook 1,33GHz last 2005 and I from time to time ran 10.5(!) from an external 40GB 4200rpm Toshiba (the stock drive) and it was ok to use. Once the apps are loaded into the RAM, after you open them there is no disturbing lag.

Though we have no USB3, but let me note one thing about it. I have heard of some people using external USB3 SSDs on their Intel Macs, when they were to cheap of choosing the crazy priced upgrade options in the apple store on those machines you can't really open much anymore. Some of them working in professional graphics departments.

To the OP's comment about the apple discussions support forum only supporting the iMac: I have a total different experience over there.

OP, your comments show that you have informed yourself very well on everything and already know a lot, so I don't question using and working on your PPC and so on, but why would you install Windows on an Intel-Mac, if you say, you have a Windows-PC? Also you could install both and though some things have changed you still could have the Mac experience on an Intel-Mac and an iMac is a good price-performance buy, which is probably why you find so much about it (but still I think you will find help in the apple discussions forum for all other models as well). No offence intended :)
 

G4PPC

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RE: using USB external drive

ehm, well I experienced that USB3 is even faster on USB2 than USB2 on USB2 (not much difference though and depends on the chip, there are even USB3 that won't work with the ibooks USB2 port), but why not prefer Firewire400 on the ibook he has? Also, from what I recall booting off a PPC from USB is a pain.

I have a 320GB 5400rpm WD drive inside my ibook 1,33GHz last 2005 and I from time to time ran 10.5(!) from an external 40GB 4200rpm Toshiba (the stock drive) and it was ok to use. Once the apps are loaded into the RAM, after you open them there is no disturbing lag.

Though we have no USB3, but let me note one thing about it. I have heard of some people using external USB3 SSDs on their Intel Macs, when they were to cheap of choosing the crazy priced upgrade options in the apple store on those machines you can't really open much anymore. Some of them working in professional graphics departments.

To the OP's comment about the apple discussions support forum only supporting the iMac: I have a total different experience over there.

OP, your comments show that you have informed yourself very well on everything and already know a lot, so I don't question using and working on your PPC and so on, but why would you install Windows on an Intel-Mac, if you say, you have a Windows-PC? Also you could install both and though some things have changed you still could have the Mac experience on an Intel-Mac and an iMac is a good price-performance buy, which is probably why you find so much about it (but still I think you will find help in the apple discussions forum for all other models as well). No offence intended :)
Thank you, but I wasn't aware of the Ibook G4 working with usb 3.0 or not I hadn't payed attention to that part of the Specs. About the Apple forums I just hadn't actually gone over there and I had thought that iMac was short for Intel Mac, but found out that they were out long before that.

Why I thought of putting windows on a Intel Mac, at the time I thought that it defeated the purpose of owning a Mac, but have since learned other wise, that it is not just as simple as that and nobody in their right mind would put windows on one over Mac OSX.

The learning experience for a Mac is great, I've tried many different versions of Linux over the years but their biggest down fall is the learning curve and I never really got hooked on it but that don't even exist for a Mac, everything is strait forward.

However I haven't understood what a Firewire is really for though I've had those on windows PC's too.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Core
However I haven't understood what a Firewire is really for though I've had those on windows PC's too.
Firewire is useful for at least three things.

First and most likely the primary use, is external devices. Hardrives, webcams, etc. I have used FW400 extensively with an external HD enclosure and my iSight webcam is Firewire.

Second, almost any G4 and all G5s can do Target Disk Mode (TDM). You place one Mac in TDM, connect it to another Mac via a firewire cable and the Mac that is in TDM will have it's hard drive (and any disc in this optical drive) mount to the desktop of the other Mac. That makes it easy to clone drives, transfer files or make disk repairs you otherwise could not.

Third, you can use it for internet sharing. Starbucks just recently killed off WiFi for Macs with the old Airport card. My son can no longer connect to Starbucks Google WiFi when we go there. Internet sharing from my MBP using a Firewire cable gives him internet at Starbucks.

I'm sure there are other uses, but these are the three I have used FW for these many years.
 

bunnspecial

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However I haven't understood what a Firewire is really for though I've had those on windows PC's too.
I don't really understand the technical differences between the two fully, but in the "real world" FW400 is typically faster for data transfer than USB 2.0 even though USB is slightly faster on paper(480 mbit/s vs 400 mbit/s). FW can usually maintain close to its rated speed, while USB often has significant overhead loss(it's competing with other things on the bus).

I've been told-but don't know how true it is-that it has significant advantages for musicians connecting instruments to computers due to syncing advantages.

FW is capable of supplying huge amounts of power through the bus. It can also be used as a point-to-point connection between computers, something not possible with USB

FW800 blows USB 2.0 out of the water.

I always use FW in preference to USB 2.0 wherever possible.

When FW was a new(Apple) technology, Apple really pushed it heavily. In a lot of ways, it was touted as a replacement for SCSI traditionally used for external data transfer on Apple products. Basically, it can support some huge number of devices on a bus(not 7 as on a typical Apple SCSI bus), is hot-pluggable, and doesn't require messing around with IDs. The original "Apple Vision"(or at least I'm guessing) was that USB should be used for low-speed peripherals like keyboards and mice-basically everything you would have used ADB for in the past-as well as low speed data transfer such as floppy drives. FW was for high speed data transfer. I think this is born out by the fact that Apple really drug their feet on adding USB 2.0.

USB 3.0 completely blows FW800 out of the water, even with overhead losses.

Rather than adopting it, however, Apple used an alternative technology in Thunderbolt, which, again, is hugely superior to USB 3.0 but also extraordinarily expensive. My first Mac had Thunderbolt, but I have yet to own any TB peripherals because of this(even a short 3rd party TB cable will set you back ~$30 or so). Pretty much all Macs built after early 2011 have TB, but to me its effectively a dead-end technology. The only time the TB port on either of my laptops gets used is to plug in a mini-DP dongle.

Apple finally gave in and added USB 3.0 to most models in mid-2012. All models had it by late 2013. It was generally used alongside TB, although the new Macbook(the newest Apple design) doesn't have TB.
 
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Cox Orange

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EDIT: bunnspecial was faster while I was writing,... and more spot on and more info. :)
On thunderbolt: the future advantage of it is seen, e.g. in being able to connect Graphics cards in an external case that can take work loads off of the machine. TB will be reasonably usable with the next gen. of TB-3, because the 1st gen (and a bit so the 2nd gen.) is still to slow, for what they plan, e.g. a potent GPU.
On Firewire for Musicians, yes that was right, but recently USB2-audio-interfaces are recommended, because the technology has advanced so much, that they could make away with latency a fair bit (USB3 devices are still to expensive for the average home-musician and firewire is becoming less available and because of this more expensive, too).

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Also USB2 on PowerPC-Macs (or Macs in general) is slower than on Win machines, hence Firwire is preferred, too, also more stable data transfer and bidirectional data transfer.

One thing to consider though, older PPC-Macs have slower write or read speeds (I don't remember right now) than PPC-Macs from around late2002/early2003 with Firewire400, where in the latter PPC-Macs write/read speeds are the same (around 35MB/s).

...I wasn't aware of the Ibook G4 working with usb 3.0 or not...
Just in case,... but you realized that PowerPC-Macs stopped being produced in mid 2006 (with the last model introductions in 2005), right?

If you confuse "i" with Intel, I will tell you another thing which my brother (an old iMac G3 tray loader pioneer back then) was confused about when the first iphone and ipad G-models appeared: in PowerPC-Macs G is short for the processor Generation or at least the number of generation Apple assigned to IBM/Motorola's PPC-CPUs, while the "G" in iphone's refer to internet stuff... :)

While you are saying it is easier to learn OS X than Linux, I wonder if OS X 10.4 is easier than OS X 10.9 or 10.10 for someone new to it. I have to say for someone like me, who favoured 10.4 a long time and it took some time liking 10.5 (just because it was different, not harder), it took some minutes to find my way through 10.10 (which I deleted) and 10.8/10.9, which was a bit "alien" to me first and not as intuitive, but that might just be of a certain precondition of expecting everyhing from 10.4/10.5.

That bring's me to another point, you could probably find an Intel-Mac where you can still install 10.4 (as it is the last of the older design) and newer OSes to play with both sort of "mindsets" of Apple. On the other hand, you could still buy an Intel-Mac, after you have had enough fun with 10.4 and 10.5
 
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MysticCow

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EDIT: bunnspecial was faster while I was writing,... and more spot on and more info. :)
On thunderbolt: the future advantage of it is seen, e.g. in being able to connect Graphics cards in an external case that can take work loads off of the machine. TB will be reasonably usable with the next gen. of TB-3, because the 1st gen (and a bit so the 2nd gen.) is still to slow, for what they plan, e.g. a potent GPU.
I'd still try a TBolt graphics card, even though I have a 1.0 plug on my mini. It'd be a while down the road when I want to have a last gasp of power from my mini before half-retiring it. If it can show an improvement on my mini, then it's worth a try.
 

bunnspecial

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While you are saying it is easier to learn OS X than Linux, I wonder if OS X 10.4 is easier than OS X 10.9 or 10.10 for someone new to it. I have to say for someone like me, who favoured 10.4 a long time and it took some time liking 10.5 (just because it was different, not harder), it took some minutes to find my way through 10.10 (which I deleted) and 10.8/10.9, which was a bit "alien" to me first and not as intuitive, but that might just be of a certain precondition of expecting everyhing from 10.4/10.5.
The first version of OS X I used extensively was 10.7(Lion) primarily because that was the OS on my first Mac. I actually never upgraded to 10.8(Mountain Lion) and skipped directly to Mavericks(10.9). Mountain Lion remains the only version of OS X which I've never used.

When I first got into PPC Macs, Tiger(the first PPC OS I used) was somewhat foreign to me although I adapted pretty quickly. UI wise, it was much the same except I had to get used to going to the applications folder to launch applications rather than using Launch Pad. Of course, the dock still works the same. The lack of Mission Control also killed me, as I was(and still am) a heavy user of virtual desktops.

Leopard was a lot more comfortable to me, as it gave me spaces.

Since using older versions of OS X, I find that I detest the launch pad :) . I do a lot to make things operate similarly to older versions of OS X(i.e. I show mounted volumes on the desktop, something that use to be automatically on but now is turned off automatically) and pretty much launch programs either from the Finder or from Spotlight.

I've also grown to appreciate things the messages app, which let me communicate with people using iMessage on their iPhones from my computer. Yosemite actually extends this functionality to SMS messages, although I dislike it enough for other reasons that I don't use it. It's installed on two computers-a white mid-2009 Macbook and the mid-2012 MBP I'm typing from, although the MBP is dual boot and I rarely boot into the Yosemite partition. I primarily keep it around so that I can play with Office 2016, which-unfortunately-will eventually force me to upgrade.
 

G4PPC

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Just in case,... but you realized that PowerPC-Macs stopped being produced in mid 2006 (with the last model introductions in 2005), right?
Yes but I just had overlooked when Usb 3.0 first came out, just thought it was about 8 or 9 years ago but it was only 7 2008. lol

Firewire is useful for at least three things.

First and most likely the primary use, is external devices. Hardrives, webcams, etc. I have used FW400 extensively with an external HD enclosure and my iSight webcam is Firewire.

Second, almost any G4 and all G5s can do Target Disk Mode (TDM). You place one Mac in TDM, connect it to another Mac via a firewire cable and the Mac that is in TDM will have it's hard drive (and any disc in this optical drive) mount to the desktop of the other Mac. That makes it easy to clone drives, transfer files or make disk repairs you otherwise could not.

Third, you can use it for internet sharing. Starbucks just recently killed off WiFi for Macs with the old Airport card. My son can no longer connect to Starbucks Google WiFi when we go there. Internet sharing from my MBP using a Firewire cable gives him internet at Starbucks.

I'm sure there are other uses, but these are the three I have used FW for these many years.
Thanks to that and to everyone else I now get what Firewire is for.

I found a 250gb external drive, that is FW400 and USB 2.0 and was reasonably priced but only comes with a usb cable. However I found the Firewire cable for like 3 dollars and I could always use the usb for transferring data to my windows computer where usb is said to work faster. As I don't think I have Firewire on my HP but it is a Beast of a PC and might have it too, but was just overlooked.

I know 250gb is a little large for Leopard, but I want to use carbon copy to clone it over to another partition where I can boot leopard from there, then Install 10.4 tiger back on the internal drive so I can support classic. So thought I would create a OSX partition of 100gb for leopard and another 100gb for a windows "Fat32" partition and have true 100gb byte drives I always hate when you buy a drive claiming to be something like 250gb and is only 240 or less usable. However I figured I would use what little extra space I have left as a partition for Mac OS9. Because I would like to install it as well later on.

I have a Tiger DVD and a ISO of Mac OS 9.22 but nothing for Leopard, yet.

Thank you all, best regards.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Core
As I don't think I have Firewire on my HP but it is a Beast of a PC and might have it too, but was just overlooked.
Just keep in mind that things like TDM won't work cross platform. I.e., you cannot place your Mac in TDM and expect to see a drive pop up on your PC.

I'm not sure if Internet sharing would work either. But features specific to Mac are not going to work.

Not that you'd be doing any of this, but I just thought I'd point this out.
 

Altemose

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Just keep in mind that things like TDM won't work cross platform. I.e., you cannot place your Mac in TDM and expect to see a drive pop up on your PC.
Actually, Target Disk Mode would work when connected to a PC but you must have an HFS driver to read and write from the Mac's drive.