I have a 2.1 Mac Pro with a GTX 650 and its 8 cores! I can play Battlefield 3 on ultra settings and Ghost on high setting! Who ever says those type of machines are outdated they are completely wrong not to mention I have Windows 8.1 running.
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Mac Pro 2013 Gaming?
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antonis
macrumors 68020
Yes, under Windows (where the Crossfire X is implemented) the performance is indeed way better than the iMac's single 780M. In avandtech's review, though, there was a case where the crossfire was ignored and only one GPU was used (leading to a very mediocre performance, as expected).
Having said all that, though, I'd also like to see more gaming-focused benchmarks and tests, as well as videos to prove them. Obviously, the lack of delivered machines is holding this back. I guess we'll know more during next weeks, as more and more people are receiving their nMPs.
Anim
macrumors 6502a
The new Mac Pro is a very versatile computer, it can be used in all sorts of environments and be up there with the best of them. Media Development, Gaming, Virtual Reality Development, Rendering & CAD, etc.
The fact that recent benchmark results show that dual 6GB D700's match Nvidia's top gaming card is brilliant news for those of us that game. Not many people fork out for the 780 Ti unless they want to ramp quality settings right up to max which is something I don't really do as a gamer, i prefer faster FPS than higher detailed graphics.
When my Hex, D700 arrives I will be able to sell my gaming machine + iMac + 2 monitors and all the cables that clutter up my desks, in fact I will be able to sell a desk too. Put this little beauty there with its new TB display and just enjoy it.
It's one machine to rule them all 🙂
Of course there are the 1% of gamers that run liquid cooled, over-clocked, SLI'd monsters for the absolute max gaming experience but that isn't the majority of gamers.
Roll on Feb!
The fact that recent benchmark results show that dual 6GB D700's match Nvidia's top gaming card is brilliant news for those of us that game. Not many people fork out for the 780 Ti unless they want to ramp quality settings right up to max which is something I don't really do as a gamer, i prefer faster FPS than higher detailed graphics.
When my Hex, D700 arrives I will be able to sell my gaming machine + iMac + 2 monitors and all the cables that clutter up my desks, in fact I will be able to sell a desk too. Put this little beauty there with its new TB display and just enjoy it.
It's one machine to rule them all 🙂
Of course there are the 1% of gamers that run liquid cooled, over-clocked, SLI'd monsters for the absolute max gaming experience but that isn't the majority of gamers.
Roll on Feb!
i cant understand why osx didnt support two gpus systemwide... this is really annoying.
the final questions is:
imac maxed out
or
entry macpro with d500
wich one is better for gaming unter 8.1... i hope we see some vids within the next few weeks.
am i able to upgrade the d500 to an d700 over the time? where can i buy those cards (i guess they are especially made for the mac pro)?
in the end, i think im ok by paying 3400€ to get a futurproof gaming rig.
the final questions is:
imac maxed out
or
entry macpro with d500
wich one is better for gaming unter 8.1... i hope we see some vids within the next few weeks.
am i able to upgrade the d500 to an d700 over the time? where can i buy those cards (i guess they are especially made for the mac pro)?
in the end, i think im ok by paying 3400€ to get a futurproof gaming rig.
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Anim
macrumors 6502a
There seems to be some misunderstanding regarding two gpus and crossfire/sli.
Crossfire allows both graphic cards to work together as a single unit.
Without crossfire the operating system (and software apps) still know about the other GPU and can pass tasks to it exclusively. This is like VRAY rendering with RT. You can have multiple mixed graphic cards in one machine and select which ones you want the VRay renderer to use for processing, it knows they are there even if they don't have SLI/Crossfire enabled or monitors attached to them. You often leave the one connected to the monitor out of the processing chain so that you can still use your OS (e.g. web browsing while rendering).
The downside of crossfire is that if the graphic cards are being maxed out to 100% by some other application process (e.g. Final Cut Pro) then the system becomes unresponsive, mouse won't move etc unless whatever is driving the cards to run flat out allows for system events to get through.
So, as crossfire/sli is mostly targeted at gamers I can understand why apple/AMD have not enabled it via the OSX drivers yet. I guess with demand they may give us the option in a future update though.
i understand that.
im no video editor, my only hard demanding gpu task is gaming.
but i really want to be sure that this is future proof for at least 5-6 years. and looking how the 2009 mac pro still performs today, this sounds pretty realistic.
i just want to buy an ultimate machine (though it costs 3400) and never worry about the fact that there is a chance a few months (maybe a year) later that there is a much faster machine out (e.g. 2011 imac and the 2013 imac).
Anim
macrumors 6502a
In that case I would buy a cheaper windows gaming machine. If you don't need OSX then you are paying a premium for it by buying anything Apple.
Have a look here:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=43&catid=2474
These are top end gaming machines that would probably last 4 years and still run the games at HIGH/ULTRA in 4 years time. Hardware advances much faster than games are released with higher demands. Games have to target the midrange gamers as a priority.
So, do you want to buy a new gaming machine every 2 years for the equivalent cost of a nMP which you keep for 4 years? I would buy a new windows gaming machine every 2 years in that case.
Edit: Or one of the extreme gaming machines from over clockers as posted in the link above.
2128506
macrumors 6502
Get dual D700s then - in Windows (if you're lucky and your game supports Crossfire properly that is) you will get performance somehow close to GTX Titan/780 Ti, which are at the moment top-of-the-line videocards.
Would be good for some time. 😉
You do consider, that gaming on Macpro if you do not need it for work is a terrible idea? You can get several times more powerful gaming rig for this kind of money.
not an option. no pc in my house. not even as a gaming only system. one for all thats my goal. i use osx for all my daily work.
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i know that. but i just want one machine...
Sean Dempsey
macrumors 68000
I'm going to take off my flimsy Mac Pro koolaid troll hat for a second...
</trollhat>
Dude a base Mac Pro is $2999. It's not optimized for games. I am sure it's great, but do you realize the PC you could build for a fraction of that? I know you say it's not an option, but ****... a case, psu, some ram, an SSD and the most expensive video card you can get and you're at what, $1500 maybe for a gaming machine that is orders of magnitude better for games than the Mac Pro.
If you simply won't buy a PC... I mean what do you want us to tell you? Get the top end iMac, or the Mac Pro. Those are the only 2 gaming options and both are substandard. If you're buying 1 machine... I mean, you're aren't really giving us an option to give you a recommendation. Buy the mac you can afford and you'll get an iMac gaming experience, or a Mac Pro experience. Both will be decent but nothing like a PC. But, you're saying you want a single computer from a company who makes, what, 2 decent gaming machines?
<trollhat>
The Mac Pro is great for gaming. Is this even a question?
</trollhat>
Dude a base Mac Pro is $2999. It's not optimized for games. I am sure it's great, but do you realize the PC you could build for a fraction of that? I know you say it's not an option, but ****... a case, psu, some ram, an SSD and the most expensive video card you can get and you're at what, $1500 maybe for a gaming machine that is orders of magnitude better for games than the Mac Pro.
If you simply won't buy a PC... I mean what do you want us to tell you? Get the top end iMac, or the Mac Pro. Those are the only 2 gaming options and both are substandard. If you're buying 1 machine... I mean, you're aren't really giving us an option to give you a recommendation. Buy the mac you can afford and you'll get an iMac gaming experience, or a Mac Pro experience. Both will be decent but nothing like a PC. But, you're saying you want a single computer from a company who makes, what, 2 decent gaming machines?
<trollhat>
The Mac Pro is great for gaming. Is this even a question?
derbothaus
macrumors 601
Don't use boot camp drivers. Just download the latest from your manufacturer. You won't hurt anything. Use Xfire in Win and your Mac Pro will be a great game machine and do all the work you need on the OS X side. I do it on my 2010. Others do it. It is a great single box solution. It costs more than a comparable PC but it also does more with less effort (ie Hackintosh route). Computers do not need to be optimized for games (can you say, Marketing BS). The parts are the parts. There are fast ones and slow ones. A Quad core CPU at 3-3.9GHz will be plenty for the foreseeable future and as long as you don't mind reduced resolution on certain display's and games the D700's will last a while as well. But definitely get the upgraded GPU's.
This... let's go over the choices again...
nMP - medicore at gaming, but can do a lot of other things. $3k-$5k
hackintosh - great choice for a gaming rig if you want to support it, bad for a primary system if you also do real work on it. $2k-$3k (for a real gaming one)
iMac - good choice for gaming, but issues with screens and lifespan, limiting for some work $2800
upgraded cMP - good choice if you already have a 4,1 or 5,1, but upgrades require some of the same support as a hackintosh, but not as bad. $1500 IF you already have a 4,1 or 5,1
pick one....
Anim
macrumors 6502a
Well, not sure what the refreshed iMac will be, its still akin to a laptop stuck to a monitor so you can't upgrade the graphics in it, nor can you do that on the nMP (at the moment).
If you want it to last 6 years then consider I have two other iMac's in this household, both mid 2007 models so 6 years old. They were top of the range when I bought them (I think). They originally had 2GB ram, 24" displays, a 2.4Ghz Core 2 duo processor with a 256MB radeon 2600 graphics card. Now compare that to now and you get an idea. They will not run the latest games at all.
It's a tough decision but I don't think any of the iMac machines will last 6 years for gaming. Maybe 3 to 4 years.
Anim
I couldn't get the card to work with Lion since my computer could only support Lion I had the beta working great on it 🙂
A side note dose of reality here... for those whose primary Mac game is WoW, I've been having discussions about the nMP on the tech forums there, and the key point coming across is that the WoW engine is very bad, has lots of issues, so trying to focus on performance for WoW is a fool's errand in some sense. Now if you are playing other Blizzard games, that does not apply.
MH01
Suspended
You have an issue. It takes 2x D700 in crossfire to approach the 780.
Worse, not all games scale well in crossfire, resulting in performance well below the 780.
This is not a machine to rule them all. It has adequate gaming performance only under windows.
1% ???? No mate. Most gamers have rigs that are overclocked , with adequate air cooling to match the overclocking. And common as to run SLI / crossfire . It's the benchers that have monster rigs, with extreme cooling and 4xsli set ups. You would be crazy not to overclock you gaming rig these days, given it's pretty much become a feature of current systems
Watercooling is more uncommon. Though these days gamers get benefits of watercooling in solutions such as corsair H100 etc.
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You mean under OS X right? Or is that under windows too?
Have a look at the Anandtech review
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7603/mac-pro-review-late-2013/10
It looks like dual D700's are on a par with a single GTX 780 TI, and that's only when running under Windows - OS X will only use one of D700's as things stand today. A minimum config with those cards will cost you over £3k. For gaming I still use a PC because Apple don't make a core i7 desktop with proper graphics - I'm talking a stand-alone core i7 with GTX 780 (desktop) or similar graphics.
I'm sure Apple think that they can persuade potential buyers of such a machine that the iMac will do, but it won't. In most reviews the graphics are scaled down to 1080p on a 1440p monitor to get decent performance. I'm not going to come out with any nonsense like 'a £300 PC could do this', because it can't. You need to spend around £1000 on a PC to do this properly. I'd be willing to pay the 'Apple tax' to have Apple build a Mac with gaming specs. I dunno, perhaps gaming isn't consumer enough. One thing is for sure, the nMP will be a very expensive option for gaming with fairly average performance. It's just not designed for games.
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You are talking utter bollocks!
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7603/mac-pro-review-late-2013/10
It looks like dual D700's are on a par with a single GTX 780 TI, and that's only when running under Windows - OS X will only use one of D700's as things stand today. A minimum config with those cards will cost you over £3k. For gaming I still use a PC because Apple don't make a core i7 desktop with proper graphics - I'm talking a stand-alone core i7 with GTX 780 (desktop) or similar graphics.
I'm sure Apple think that they can persuade potential buyers of such a machine that the iMac will do, but it won't. In most reviews the graphics are scaled down to 1080p on a 1440p monitor to get decent performance. I'm not going to come out with any nonsense like 'a £300 PC could do this', because it can't. You need to spend around £1000 on a PC to do this properly. I'd be willing to pay the 'Apple tax' to have Apple build a Mac with gaming specs. I dunno, perhaps gaming isn't consumer enough. One thing is for sure, the nMP will be a very expensive option for gaming with fairly average performance. It's just not designed for games.
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You are talking utter bollocks!
Both, WoW's engine is creaky in both. A lot to do with texture rendering. It is a 12 year old engine, after all.
Anim
macrumors 6502a
You get GTX 780 Ti performance (on some games). That's more than enough for most gamers to be very happy with imo. The fact this is two D700's is irrelevant unless you mean that crossfire support is shaky, which is a valid point. We need good crossfire support in windows to be up there as a single D700 doesn't cut it.
As for over-clocking, the only reason to do that is because your machine isn't good enough at stock setting, so we see people tinkering with their hardware to squeeze more out of it instead of upgrading. I still think It's a small percentage of gamers. Most I know don't do it as they prefer gaming stability rather than an extra 20fps and the fact of a shortened life span on their hardware. But I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Edit: Buying a pre-overclocked gaming rig is quite common these days though. I was talking more about people over clocking their current stock machine.
MH01
Suspended
You truly do not understand what a gaming rig is. Calling the Mac Pro the best gaming rig is laughable, just shows a complete lack of understanding.
Actually your post is so incorrect , I hope it's just sarcasm.
Go check out 3dmark results, when you understand what 2x780 v 3x780 v 4x780 is capable off, with the CPU overclocked. You will realise how totally **** the nMP. It's competing with a single 780..... A basic gaming rig setup (if u have coin to get a nMP)
For the price of a totally spec'd nMP I could buy a build PC off the net with complete watercooling, 4xgpu that would destroy the nMP in gaming.....destroy it.
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Crossfire support/drivers have had a lot of issues compared to SLI.
It's always advisable to get a single card over a crossfire/SLI setup. Lots of literature on the net explaining the downfalls of 2xgpu set ups.
Overclocking. Comes Down to users ability. Everyone I know overclocks, there use to be a time when it was only people willing to push thier systems, these days motherboard manafactures and intel are behind it. When I got my 3970x intell even sold me extended warranty, where they would replace my CPU if I killed it overclocking.
http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/
It's so incredibly easy these days you would be nuts not to do it. A mid overclock is so easy and 100% stable.
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Actually your are right.
During patches I have seen it struggle on my system running 2x Titans
MH01
Suspended
Your welcome.
There was a time when overclocking was looked down on my manafactures.
These days Intel is right behind it.
Good safeguard for the ones that really push it .
Read your own links that you posted yourself. The benchmarks are right there.
The R9 280X CF, and 290X CF are benchmarks obtained from a computer running a set of video cards worth $1000, and a set of video cards worth $1500 respectively. The 780 Ti, is basically a Nvidia GeForce Titan. As you can see by looking at the graph, the Mac Pro has performance that matches the best single core Nvidia card available, and exceeds the best single core AMD card available.
So your argument is that the OP is going to be using OS X. The OP has clarified that he was talking about Windows so that goes out the window. 🙂
In any case the Mac Pro remains an excellent value as a windows gaming rig, especially in D700 flavor. There are very few manufacturers that will sell you a rig with similar performance, and all will charge you roughly around $3,000. Due to Apple historically high resale value and the high depreciation of PC components you will probably end up paying less for the Mac Pro in the long run than any other competitor while having world class windows gaming performance.
Exactly that's the point. Looking at current sales on eBay in 3-4 years a $2800 Alienware Aurora speced to D500 level will net a profit of $700, if you're lucky. A $3500 New Mac Pro, will be worth $1800. Meaning alternative gaming rigs will tend to be more expensive.
Even if you go the DIY route, you'd be looking at a computer that costs $2100 with dual GeForce 760 cards and a 4770k processor. 3-4 year old i7 processors are worth only tens of dollars now and can barley be given away.
Depreciation over 3-4 years targeting the 4 core D500 config:
New Mac Pro : $1700
High End Windows Gaming PC: $2100
DIY High End Gaming PC: $2000
(Note I realize if you sacrificed the processor and did a few other things that you could lower the cost of the DIY PC, but that's not the point here)
Simply put, in terms of performance for an expected level of depreciation, the New Mac Pro is the most cost effective high end gaming rig on the market, beating out both PC alternatives and DIY equivalents.
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My last desktop computer was built around two aquarium chillers. This is a device that is designed to cool water in fish tanks for those that like to keep cold water fish in room temperature areas. Each one is the size of a small refrigerator.
The system stayed a chilly 39.5 degrees Fahrenheit under max load, and overclocked the i7 3970x to 5GHZ, stable. The quad Geforce Titan cards, ran at 1400 mzh, stable.
I think I know a thing or two about building a custom computer, but I think you missed my point.
I said that the Mac Pro is the best and least expensive high end gaming computer. You countered by saying that you can build a 4x SLI custom rig. And then what? No game currently available or reasonably expected that takes advantage of that. What are you going to do with your 4x SLI 780 GTX? Run benchmarks for fun?
The Mac Pro in D700 config has enough horsepower to run any game on ultra. And more importantly it's the most cost effective way to do so over the long term. Just buy the D700 config and sell it in 1-2 years for the D900 config, you'll take a $850 hit. That's the least expensive way to run window games on max setting over several hardware cycles. And that makes the Mac Pro the best high end gaming PC in my mind. Even beating out simply replacing the Mobo, CPU, and GFX cards every few years on a DIY PC.
You cannot disagree with the logic, because the long term costs of competing desktops, DIY desktops, and Mac workstations are known variables.
On top of that the Mac Pro has other advantages such as Apple's fantastic design, PCIe SSD's OS X etc.
Overclocking without insane cooling nets around 10-20% performance, which doesn't really effect the cost/performance equation that favors the Mac Pro.
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