MP 1,1-5,1 Mac Pro 4,1 Problem!!!

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by jasonmacpro31, Jun 12, 2019 at 3:05 PM.

  1. jasonmacpro31 macrumors newbie

    jasonmacpro31

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    #1
    hi guys I have the above Mac Pro with a single CPU

    I upgraded it to a dual tray board but for some reason it won't boot it at all

    I get normal fan speed and that's it no chime no video no nothing power light is solid

    I have removed both heatsinks and inspected the CPU's And Sockets and all looks good.


    now to trouble shoot I tried just CPU A in the board and the Mac Pro fired up and chimed booted see's the CPU tray serial and SMC version.

    so I thought great placed back in CPU B and no chime again,

    just normal fan spin and power light solid


    any advice guys ?

    my only other question is could it be that the CPU board wasn't upgraded to a 5,1 firmware ?

    despite it working with a single CPU in socket a ?


    any help is appreciated thanks
     
  2. krakman macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2009
    #2
    only the boot rom gets firmware update, cpu tray stays the same. if your fans are running OK then you have the correct cpu tray for your motherboard.

    maybe the other cpu is faulty? try putting the second cpu in socket A

    check to see all the pins for the fan engage correctly on the heatsink on socket B
     
  3. jasonmacpro31 thread starter macrumors newbie

    jasonmacpro31

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    #3
    hi krakman


    I have tried both CPU's in socket A and they work I get the chime and it boots up.


    I have tried to get it to boot up of an X5650 just in CPU A and its a no go but yet my single CPU tray is running fine with a X5650
     
  4. krakman macrumors regular

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    Dec 3, 2009
    #4
    4.1 dual cpu tray requires delided cpus

    single trays and 5.1 dual trays take the normal lidded cpus

    if you put a lidded cpu in a dual 4.1 tray you risk crushing the pins in the cpu holder and because of the extra height of the chip it may not allow the fan/sensor pins on the heatsink to engage properly.
     
  5. jasonmacpro31 thread starter macrumors newbie

    jasonmacpro31

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    #5
    yeah this I did discover when I took the CPU Tray apart but

    I had both X5650's delided so that shouldn't have been an issue

    but my question is why don't the E5520's both work when they are original to the CPU Tray ?

    they work on there own in socket A but won't boot with them both in and I get no error lights.
     
  6. krakman macrumors regular

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    Dec 3, 2009
    #6
    perhaps cpu B heatsink is on too tight or not tight enough?

    check that the pins for the fan are aligned properly and engage the contacts?

    check if the pins inside socketB are all clean and there is no visible damage/debris?

    remove any Ram modules for Socket B to eliminate any problem caused by faulty Ram?

    other than these suggestions I cannot be of more help. I have changed cpus in a dual 4.1 tray and it all worked well.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2019 at 3:52 PM ---
    Have you reset PRAM ? maybe the machine is expecting to boot a single processor and not dual?
     
  7. jasonmacpro31 thread starter macrumors newbie

    jasonmacpro31

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    #7
    hi again


    I can't perform a PRAM reset as I don't get the chime with DUAL CPU's in place,

    I have checked the CPU socket and it appears to be perfect to me.

    there is no damage in there or debris of any form,

    I will try with no ram in CPU ram slot-s B

    but I doubt that's the problem as the ram I'm using is in my current CPU tray,


    but thank you ever so much for the help.


    could the CPU Tray Be Bad ?

    as I've got a dual tray from a 5.1 Mac Pro not a flashed one that works in there but obviously all the fans go full pelt.
     
  8. MIKX macrumors 6502a

    MIKX

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  9. amedias macrumors regular

    amedias

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    #9
    You can for diagnostics, it'll work but with fans full pelt, as the OP noted above.

    But that's not his issue, he's using a dual 4,1 tray but can only get it to POST with a single CPU fitted.

    It sounds liked you've tried all the combos OP, you might actualyl have a duff tray, but jsut to be sure, tick off this list to be 100%

    - boot the machine with single tray and known good (single stick) ram and CPU
    - boot the machine with dual tray and known good (single stick) ram and CPU in socket A
    - boot the machine with dual tray and known good (single stick in bank A and single stick in bank B) ram and CPUs in socket A and B

    in terms of 'known good' components you'll have to the that testing bit by bit.
    then if the last step still isn't working swap the CPUs between A and B to make triple sure.

    you CAN do the nvram reset by booting it with the single CPU.

    If you were closer I'd offer up my 4,1s and 5,1s for testing purposes as we could rule out the trays and backplanes that way but you're a bit too far to make it practical, know anyone else local with machines you could play with?
     
  10. jasonmacpro31 thread starter macrumors newbie

    jasonmacpro31

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    #10
    Hi again thanks for the reply


    Yes the 5.1 tray does work in the Mac Pro but obviously the fans are way too loud for it to be practical and they can’t be controlled to slow them.


    One more question as I’ve tried what’s been suggested but no dice.


    Could the fault be the board as it won’t take an X5650 even as a single CPU

    I don’t get any error leds it powers up with the fans at normal speed but don’t boot.


    Now when I put in the E5520 it boots straight away with a single cpu and fans run normal.


    And as to the last question I don’t know anyone local who has a Mac Pro to try there cpu tray in there


    Thanks

    Jason
     
  11. tsialex macrumors 601

    tsialex

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    #11
    X5650 is a Westmere Xeon and needs a MP5,1 firmware, MP4,1 don't support it.
     
  12. amedias macrumors regular

    amedias

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    #12
    Hmm, so just to clarify, it boots fine with a single E5520, but not both E5520s?
    And won't boot at all with the X5650 in either single or dual setup?

    Have you done the 4.1->5.1 firmware update? I thought you had but just re-read your earlier postings and it's not clear. If you haven't then that WILL stop it booting any 56xx or 36xx series Xeons as you need to be on 5,1 to support Westmere CPUs, and the symptoms will be as you describe, powers on OK but no boot.

    What CPU is on the 5,1 tray that does boot (with full fans) is it a Nehalem or Westmere?


    Depending on your answer to the firmware quesiton you might be having two issues, a damaged board/bad CPU B install AND needing the firmware update. Firmware situation and exact CPU model clarifications will help here.
     
  13. jasonmacpro31 thread starter macrumors newbie

    jasonmacpro31

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    #13
    Hi again


    Sorry my fault


    I have upgraded my 4.1 firmware to the 5.1 firmware as my single cpu board has an x5680 on it and runs fine


    The 5.1 official cpu tray has 2 X5650’s on there and boots fine.


    Now I have tightened both heatsinks down fully on CPU A and Then when testing both I have done the same on CPU B

    But get no boot just all normal fan’s no chime no flashing light I get a blink on both cpu LEDs as it turns on and then sits there doing nothing


    Thanks
     
  14. orph macrumors 68000

    orph

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    #14
    did you buy the tray? may be worth talking to the seller for support
     
  15. amedias macrumors regular

    amedias

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    #15
    The it sounds like you might have a duff tray/socket B... as above, is this one you recently purchased or just spare one you had lying around from another machine?

    You said you've checked socket B for damaged pins, how closely? You may need a magnifying glass to really check. Have you also checked the backplane connector socket on the tray for damage and/or fluff and debris?

    I had one 4,1 that was fine, took the tray out to upgrade CPUs, then wouldn't boot when I replaced it. Turned out there was some fluff on the backplane and when I removed the tray it had fallen down in front of the connector, so when I replaced the tray it had just jammed the fluff into the socket, once cleaned out all was well.

    If you bought it did it come with the E5520s fitted and did you ever confirm it was working with both CPUs in original setup before you tried upgrading the CPUs?
    If you did then might be worth a chat with the seller although they may wash their hands of it since you've taken it apart etc.
     
  16. orph macrumors 68000

    orph

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    #16
    well sounds like it was paid for so the seller has a duty of care (in the uk) to provide a refund or suport

    can be lots of things from wrong tray, bent pins, bad cpu, bad instal

    but relay if you paid then dont waist time get it replaced
     
  17. amedias macrumors regular

    amedias

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    #17
    Depends on where you bought it from, I've just been massively done over by a seller on UK eBay and eBay have been useless and sided with him.

    I bought a 4,1 from a seller, he shipped it inadequately packed and it arrived with the not-uncommon bent handles and a couple of popped rivets.

    I took photos and contacted him immediately and trying to be nice and fair about it said I wasn't overly bothered if it was only cosmetic and asked him to contact the courier. We agreed via messages that he would do that and I would test it to see if it actually still worked and if it was just cosmetic or not.

    I tested it, which necessitated taking the side off and fitting a HDD, it was working but after a bit more checking found that one of sata ports was only intermittently recognising drives and when it was they would run at about 2-5Mbps so very very slow. Had a good look in there and found some damage to some components on the board, looks like they had been knocked/scraped by something and the only thing I could think of was debris from the popped rivets as could hear something rattling in the bottom. Then found two screws missing from one of the HDD tray and no sign of them so might have been them.

    Anyway, in light of the cosmetic and board damage I asked to return it, seller got funny and said I needed to open a case with eBay and then let them decide as in his words 'there are discrepancies'.

    I opened a case and he called eBay, said that since I had opened and dismantled the item it was no longer in the condition it was delivered and so he wasn't going to accept a return. eBay sided with him and closed the case! I even tried to appeal but they said decision final as I had opened it computer up. I tried to explain that not only was that not the same as taking it apart and quite normal, but it had been agreed with the seller via email, no luck, case closed.

    I'm very grumpy about it to be honest and feel almost like the seller tricked me into testing it so they could use that defence. Now I'm left with a bent and broken machine and no options other than keep it for spares for one of my other machines or part it out for bits.

    Anyway, all a bit off topic, but just a warning for anyone hoping to get help form a seller after testing something like this where you've gone beyond plugging it in an turning it on. Hopefully the OP will have better luck...
     
  18. tsialex, Jun 13, 2019 at 7:56 AM
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019 at 8:02 AM

    tsialex macrumors 601

    tsialex

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    #18
    The exactly same thing happened to me to the letter, but with a MP3,1 and the local eBay subsidiary/associate/whatever called MercadoLivre. I had to replace the logic board, HDD and case at my cost. Seller initially seemed to help me but he probably did it just to show to MercadoLivre that he was trying to resolve the problem.

    I always thought that this was local problem, since MercadoLivre seems to side with the seller most if not all the time, but unfortunately seems this happens elsewhere too.
     
  19. amedias macrumors regular

    amedias

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    #19
    wow, coincidence!

    The lesson I have learned is if anything is not right when it turns up, reject it and don't touch it further.

    I'm probably going to keep my eyes open for a cheap backplane for this one, afterall that's the bigger issue, a bent case while annoying is only cosmetic...
     
  20. tsialex macrumors 601

    tsialex

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    #20
    MP4,1 and MP5,1 backplanes are cheap enough that you should repair your Mac Pro and maybe you can even find a better case later.

    Logic board I bought some months later, but took more than a year to find a decent case with a price that I could pay. My father still uses this MP3,1 to this day.
     
  21. amedias macrumors regular

    amedias

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    #21
    Sadly not in the UK, resellers charge a fortune for them, and they don't pop up on eBay often here. It's even crazier the price of CPU trays...but that's another topic!
     
  22. jasonmacpro31 thread starter macrumors newbie

    jasonmacpro31

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    #22
    Hi guys thanks for the reply’s


    I did buy it with both CPU’s fitted I did fire it up when I got it and all seemed ok

    So I did check the socket but not with a magnifying glass but I can get one for that.


    I have been in touch with the seller I paid £400 for the dual cpu tray.


    He has said it could have got damaged in transit as he packed it in a box with no protection other than brown paper and no anti static bag.


    I contacted him as soon as I noticed that.

    He has also stated he won’t take no returns but as because the box was damaged on delivery (again not my fault)


    Anybody wanna swop the 5.1 tray I have for a 4.1 dual cpu tray ??


    Even if that’s allowed lol
     
  23. amedias macrumors regular

    amedias

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    #23
    Hmm, so it only stopped working after you swapped CPUs? That doesn't bode well as you may have damaged the socket during your CPU swap.

    Definitely check closely and check the connector for fluff too, both on the tray and backplane.

    Ouch, that's full nearly machine money!

    Arrrggggh! Why do people do things like that, they need careful packing :-(

    Hopefully you can get somewhere with that as they should be able to put in a claim with the courier, assuming they sent it insured....
     
  24. jasonmacpro31 thread starter macrumors newbie

    jasonmacpro31

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    #24
    Hi again


    I will check the connector for fluff I have noticed the cpu board is very dirty ??


    Could there be some underlying problem there ?


    Also the seller is saying he will file a claim with the courier and hope they will accept it and then refund me is what he has said.

    Now the only other option is getting eBay envolved and seeing if that helps.

    But he is saying he wont accept a return

    So if he courier don’t accept liability well I’m out by £400

    But as these cpu tray’s are soo expensive on eBay uk it’s nuts


    I will check all you have said and see what’s up there if anything


    Thanks

    Jason


    P.S if I post some CPU Socket Photo’s will you guys take a look ?
     
  25. orph macrumors 68000

    orph

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    #25
    well one pont is you need a 5,1 tray in a 5,1 computer & a 4,1 tray in a 4,1 computer to stop the fans going 100% 24/7 which you may not like.
    so even if you do get it working it's not going to be fun

    i dont know if there is a fix for that, it will work just fnas will be maxed

    edt
    i may be wrong, thats from memory
     

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38 June 12, 2019