MP 1,1-5,1 Mac Pro 5.1 does not turn on.

[Mauro Dárcio]

Hi, my Mac Pro 5.1, quad 3.2ghz mid 2012, won't turn on after 3 days without me turning on.

A week ago, when I tried to turn it on, after not turning on my Mac Pro for the weekend, I went to turn it on for work. But he quickly turned on the LED on the on/off button, and turned it off. I pressed the on/off button again but this time no signal. Wiped out! Then I unplugged the power cord for 15 seconds and reconnected and waited 5 seconds to try to power it back on, resetting the SMC. But unfortunately it didn't. I removed all disks ( HDDs/SSD), and all connected USB components, and tried a new SMC reset, but without success! So I was really worried because since I bought it again in 2013, it has always worked perfectly.

I looked it up on the internet and some people said it might be the dead CMOS battery. I found this possibility strange because, as far as I know, the CMOS Battery is used to store PRAM data, however, if the computer is always on, the data will not be reset. Cards are rare, at least on PCs that only boot with the battery. But I never had this experience with a Mac, so I bought a new battery, by the way I only found the CR2032 Duracell model. Which I know lasts less and works at a different temperature. But to clear up doubts... I put in the new CR2032 battery. But it still didn't work.
Then I unplugged the cable from the backplane of the power supply. And I waited about 3 hours to plug in again. And then as soon as I plugged it in it called. I left it on for a while, then turned it off to reset all the devices. But before putting the disks, I ran the AHT through a pendrive. And found no errors. I repeated the test in full mode, and also found no errors.
I ran the ASD and also didn't find any errors. PASSED
so I was happy, thinking the problem had been solved.
At night I turned it off, staying connected only to Nobreack's power. And I did it for 3 days straight and it worked perfect. until I didn't turn it on for 2 days, and when I went to call... once again it didn't! The same problem! Quickly turned on the power button light and went out. I decided to do the same procedure I did before, disconnecting the power cable from the back plate and waiting for a few hours. But it didn't work! Then I saw a user on youtube with a similar problem and another user saying he could turn it on by plugging and unplugging the power cord several times and pressing the power button several times.
I did this and in one of the attempts it took off! I'm worried it's a problem with the Backplane, because here where I pray there's no support for it. I don't know if it could be the power source either, because when I had PCs, they had similar problems after being disconnected for a few days, and I just had to turn on a hair dryer to heat the source, and they would work again, but my Mac Pro was not unplugged from power, it has the power cord plugged in all the time in a Nobreack APC. The day before this problem happened, there were several power outages where I live, but since it was plugged into a Nobreack, I wasn't worried. But I'm thinking that might be what caused the problem. The fact is that this Mac Pro is how I survive financially, as I have a home studio where I make audio recordings. And now I'm desperate about this situation. I haven't turned it off for about 3 days. Yesterday I risked putting it on Sleep mode during the night, and today it turned on perfect. But I'm afraid to hang up. I apologize for the long text, but I needed to detail the problem. Thanks in advance for some help!

The DIAG TEST shows these lights after it works. But before being able to turn on, only the yellow LED 5v standby appears:

 

[tsialex]

Lot's of misconceptions here.

• Mac Pros don't have PRAM, last Mac that had PRAM was a PPC one with OpenFirmware. Intel Macs have NVRAM and it's a SPI flash memory that stores the NVRAM volume, btw its the same SPI flash memory as the BootROM.
• The battery is just for the Real Time Clock and the RTC stores just time related variables, like date/time/timesinceboot.
• RTC battery is needed for sleep/hibernation, even when the Mac Pro is connected to the mains.

I'd check the PSU first.

Try your PSU on a working Mac Pro and vice-versa. It's impossible to test a Mac Pro PSU without load and lot's of lab equipment - you won't test it with just a multimeter.

From what you wrote, seems a capacitor problem - very common issue with ACBel made PSUs after all these years - sometimes the PSU works enough for the Mac Pro boot/run AHT/ASD, but then the PSU shutdowns.

 

[Mauro Dárcio]

Lot's of misconceptions here.

• Mac Pros don't have PRAM, last Mac that had PRAM was a PPC one with OpenFirmware. Intel Macs have NVRAM and it's a SPI flash memory that stores the NVRAM volume, btw its the same SPI flash memory as the BootROM.
• The battery is just for the Real Time Clock and the RTC stores just time related variables, like date/time/timesinceboot.
• RTC battery is needed for sleep/hibernation, even when the Mac Pro is connected to the mains.

I'd check the PSU first.

Try your PSU on a working Mac Pro and vice-versa. It's impossible to test a Mac Pro PSU without load and lot's of lab equipment - you won't test it with just a multimeter.

From what you wrote, seems a capacitor problem - very common issue with ACBel made PSUs after all these years - sometimes the PSU works enough for the Mac Pro boot/run AHT/ASD, but then the PSU shutdowns.

Tsialex, thank you so much for replying here!
about what you mentioned: "Mac Pro boot/run AHT/ASD, but then the PSU shutdowns."

Sorry, maybe I didn't express myself well!
But the problem with it is that it doesn't call after a day or two without me turning it on. Once I get it to turn on, it doesn't turn off by itself.
The problem is that I don't have another machine to test the Power Source. I called Apple Authorized Service here in town, and they said they don't support Mac Pro 2012.

I'm desperate about it, my friend! I even have a Multimeter, but I don't have the molex connector diagram to know what the correct voltage for each input is.

I repeat, after I get it to work (plugging and unplugging the cable and pressing the power button several times) it works perfect. The problem is if I turn it off for a day. Then when I try to call he doesn't care. I think you're right. It must be some capacitor from the source. And I prefer you to be right, otherwise it would be a backplate problem, which would be even more expensive for me to get.

And on the issue of PRAM, I said because that's what it says in the User Manual that came with it. I will post the photo in the attachment.

I got his Technical Manual. And I was even thinking about making an attempt with the minimum configuration, as the Manual directs. But I haven't done it yet.

As for the question of turning off or leaving it in sleep mode, I always turned it off. And a while ago, I even turned off Nobreack too.
I've already tested it for two days in Sleep mode at night and the other day it works perfect. But I don't feel safe leaving "on" in Sleep, as it wastes energy and maybe wears out the Mac faster. Or not?
In a normal situation, which way is better? Shut down your Mac Pro after working, or put it into sleep mode?

Since now, thank you very much for your help! And if you have any more ideas that might help me on how I can test the font within these limitations. Appreciate!!

 

[tsialex]

I'm desperate about it, my friend! I even have a Multimeter, but I don't have the molex connector diagram to know what the correct voltage for each input is.

PSUs are not tested with just a multimeter, means absolutely nothing having correct voltages without load, or, at best you can say that you are having the correct voltages without load and your PSU is still partially working or the defect is intermittent. Not really useful.

PSUs can only be tested with the correct equipment and with load, even more so high wattage PSUs.

Mac Pros are too complex to test without the needed lab equipment and access to the correct interfaces. The only way you can really diagnose a Mac Pro at home when the defect is not really stupidly obvious, is testing each component with a known working Mac Pro. Even professionals do this all the time to identify defective components faster/easier.

 

[Mauro Dárcio]

PSUs are not tested with just a multimeter, means absolutely nothing having correct voltages without load, or, at best you can say that you are having the correct voltages without load and your PSU is still partially working or the defect is intermittent. Not really useful.

PSUs can only be tested with the correct equipment and with load, even more so high wattage PSUs.

Mac Pros are too complex to test without the needed lab equipment and access to the correct interfaces. The only way you can really diagnose a Mac Pro at home when the defect is not really stupidly obvious, is testing each component with a known working Mac Pro. Even professionals do this all the time to identify defective components faster/easier.

Olá, Tsialex! Preciso de sua ajuda! Há 20 dias meu Mac Pro 2012 não ligou mais. Tentei resetar SMC várias vezes, mas não ligou. Então procurei uma assistência que conserta Macs aqui em Fortaleza.
Hoje, depois de 20 dias que dei entrada, recebi o orçamento da substituição da placa traseira. Ficou muito caro!!! Praticamente fora da minha realidade financeira, mas preciso trabalhar com minhas pequenas produções musicais, pois sobrevivo disso.
Perguntei por telefone à pessoa que atende, se a placa seria igual ao modelo da minha, modelo 2012, e ela disse que sim, e quando tivesse pronto ligariam para mim para eu ir buscar e pagar.
Mas estou muito preocupado!!! Pois na internet a questão do NÚMERO DE SÉRIE. Pois li que quando o serviço é feito em uma assistência Autorizada Apple, eles trocam por uma placa nova sem número registrado e transferem o número da placa antiga para a nova para que o iCloud funcione e tudo mais. Porém, como o meu Mac Pro 2012 já não é mais coberto para reposição de peças pela Apple, pois liguei para a Autorizada e eles disseram que já tem mais de 5 anos e é obsoleto, portanto não recebem. E essa assistência que levei, vi que apenas tem certificado Apple. Mas sabendo que a Apple já não fornece peças para esse Mac Pro, imagino que irão utilizar uma placa já usada, apesar de darem 1 ano de garantia. Estou preocupado de eles não transferirem as informações de Número de Série e outras mais que precise para essa placa que irão colocar no meu Mac Pro.
O que você orienta que eu deva dizer pra eles?? Há alguma maneira de fazerem essa migração? Que talvez até tenham feito, e eu esteja preocupado atoa. Mas como faço para saber se isso foi feito quando eu for buscar? Pois retirei meus HDs antes de deixar no conserto. Pois eu quero que tudo fique funcionando e com o número da minha placa original para usar iCloud, etc. Por favor!! Peço sua orientação, tão logo veja essa mensagem! Desde já, muuuuito obrigado!

 

[tsialex]

This is an english language forum, please don't user another language here.

Used backplanes are not a problem if you know what you are doing, unfortunately the correct procedure, done by Apple when a backplane is refurbished, is totally out of scope of a third party repair service, only Apple Regional Service Centers can do all the procedures needed to refurbish the board itself and the BootROM image of the used backplane to later match the backplane to the case (case here represent more than the case itself, but the original hardwareIDs of your the Mac Pro) with BBS (Blank Board Serializer).

Anyway, it will be cheaper to buy a backplane from ML (or a 3rd party Mac Pro techinician), install it and then do a BootROM reconstruction, with me or another firmware engineer, to match the backplane/case.

 

[tsialex]

It's "easy" to check if they did the correct procedure, first the SSN should match the case and the checksum of the 4th store of the NVRAM should be valid. Dump the BootROM image, open it with UEFITool and check if the checksum of the 4th store of the NVRAM is valid, UEFITool validate it automatically. I can explain in more detail another day.

 

[Mauro Dárcio]

It's "easy" to check if they did the correct procedure, first the SSN should match the case and the checksum of the 4th store of the NVRAM should be valid. Dump the BootROM image, open it with UEFITool and check if the checksum of the 4th store of the NVRAM is valid, UEFITool validate it automatically. I can explain in more detail another day.

tsialex, thank you so much for replying it's so quick to my problem. Earlier today I contacted Pineapple support, and asked them to check this issue of migrating data from the old card to the one that will be replaced before proceeding with the exchange. And I explained that I saw on the internet that, if the serial number is not transferred, among other information on the card, I would not be able to log into iCloud, iMessenger, etc. But the person who answered me on whatsap told me not to worry because they've been working in this field for 12 years and they do a good job and I wouldn't have any problems. And that they give a one year warranty. Anyway.... I'll wait for them to get in touch so I can get the Mac and pay for the repair. But I will take my hard drive and try to log into iCloud there in the assistance. Testing everything possible in their presence. Friend, my contact is: maurodarcio@icloud.com (email and iMessenger) it would be an honor if you can get in touch with me at some point. From now on, I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas! Much health !

 

[tsialex]

tsialex, thank you so much for replying it's so quick to my problem. Earlier today I contacted Pineapple support, and asked them to check this issue of migrating data from the old card to the one that will be replaced before proceeding with the exchange. And I explained that I saw on the internet that, if the serial number is not transferred, among other information on the card, I would not be able to log into iCloud, iMessenger, etc. But the person who answered me on whatsap told me not to worry because they've been working in this field for 12 years and they do a good job and I wouldn't have any problems. And that they give a one year warranty. Anyway.... I'll wait for them to get in touch so I can get the Mac and pay for the repair. But I will take my hard drive and try to log into iCloud there in the assistance. Testing everything possible in their presence. Friend, my contact is: maurodarcio@icloud.com (email and iMessenger) it would be an honor if you can get in touch with me at some point. From now on, I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas! Much health !

Two things can happen, it's an used board removed from a MacPro5,1 that was teardown and already have a SSN (+ all the other hardwareIDs) for the Mac Pro that the backplane was removed or it's an used backplane that they inserted the SSN from your board. Like I wrote, the procedure is too complicated for a 3rd party repair shop to do, with lot's of firmware knowldge necessary to do all the checksums and correcting the free space indicators for each of the volumes/stores/sectors modified.

12 years replacing boards says nothing when the experience needed here is about firmwares. It's possible that the repair shop can do everything needed, but highly improbable and I never saw one that tried doing it right and just last week I spent a day repairing the botched SSN insert that a renowned repair shop did to @Norbert Mikołajczyk backplane.

Btw, it's better if the repair shop just replace the backplane without trying to mess with the BootROM image. iCloud/Messages/FaceTime will work fine while if they tried to insert and they did it wrong, you will have a big headache later.

 

[Mauro Dárcio]

"Btw, it's better if the repair shop just replace the backplane without trying to mess with the BootROM image. iCloud/Messages/FaceTime will work fine while if they tried to insert and they did it wrong, you will have a big headache later."

So you think if they switch, maybe from another Mac Pro that's already used, or with a number already registered, I won't have any problems logging into iCloud? or iMassenger, etc?

 

[tsialex]

"Btw, it's better if the repair shop just replace the backplane without trying to mess with the BootROM image. iCloud/Messages/FaceTime will work fine while if they tried to insert and they did it wrong, you will have a big headache later."

So you think if they switch, maybe from another Mac Pro that's already used, or with a number already registered, I won't have any problems logging into iCloud? or iMassenger, etc?

It's too complex to tell, but if it's not a backplane from a Mac Pro that was MDM managed or had firmware password set, should work - It will be like you got an used Mac Pro and moved your accounts to it.

There are too many variables at play here to guess anything.

 

[kitcostantino]

Similar issue on one of my 5,1s. It's a 2010 with a 2012 server backplane. The original backplane had a bent power connection Pic 1 (the black plastic and metal one). So I picked up a used 2012 server backplane. My son doesn't use MacOS on it, only windows 10. It had worked fine for the last couple of years until a couple of months ago. Then, it started refusing to start when my son tried to boot it. It was apparently an intermittent issue he didn't mention. When it stopped booting most recently, he asked me if I could fix it. I listened to it run and heard a high pitched whine. It sounded like the noise was coming from his HDD spinner drive. I suggested he pick up a cheap SSD and back up before it for worse. A couple of weeks went by, and then he tells me it won't boot. Now, the standby light comes on when pressing test, red flash when connecting the power cable. But no start, no clicks when pressing power button. Frustrated , I ordered a power supply and replaced it. After the new power supply was installed, it still did not boot so I ordered a 2010 backplane that has not arrived yet. Left it plugged up where it was in disgust after it wouldn't start. Let my son use my 2010 for the time being. Walked by his 5,1 a few hours later, and it was on. So I put *my 5,1 drives in, moved it back to where my 5,1 goes in my computer desk. Powered it on and off a few times just for reciprocity's sake and it worked perfectly. Powered it off using the button. Yesterday, tried to boot it and it would not power on again. This morning, I got up and it was powered on again. The GPU in my sons 5,1 is a HIS H795F3G2M (pic 2). Previously, when it didn't boot, I had swapped back to the OG red and black stock gpu before it decided to boot on its own. This time around, the card was the one listed/shown pic 2.

Ultimately, I'm wondering if anyone has had a similar ghost in the machine or if there is something I'm overlooking. Thank you all.

 

[tsialex]

Similar issue on one of my 5,1s. It's a 2010 with a 2012 server backplane. The original backplane had a bent power connection Pic 1 (the black plastic and metal one). So I picked up a used 2012 server backplane. My son doesn't use MacOS on it, only windows 10. It had worked fine for the last couple of years until a couple of months ago. Then, it started refusing to start when my son tried to boot it. It was apparently an intermittent issue he didn't mention. When it stopped booting most recently, he asked me if I could fix it. I listened to it run and heard a high pitched whine. It sounded like the noise was coming from his HDD spinner drive. I suggested he pick up a cheap SSD and back up before it for worse. A couple of weeks went by, and then he tells me it won't boot. Now, the standby light comes on when pressing test, red flash when connecting the power cable. But no start, no clicks when pressing power button. Frustrated , I ordered a power supply and replaced it. After the new power supply was installed, it still did not boot so I ordered a 2010 backplane that has not arrived yet. Left it plugged up where it was in disgust after it wouldn't start. Let my son use my 2010 for the time being. Walked by his 5,1 a few hours later, and it was on. So I put *my 5,1 drives in, moved it back to where my 5,1 goes in my computer desk. Powered it on and off a few times just for reciprocity's sake and it worked perfectly. Powered it off using the button. Yesterday, tried to boot it and it would not power on again. This morning, I got up and it was powered on again. The GPU in my sons 5,1 is a HIS H795F3G2M (pic 2). Previously, when it didn't boot, I had swapped back to the OG red and black stock gpu before it decided to boot on its own. This time around, the card was the one listed/shown pic 2.

Ultimately, I'm wondering if anyone has had a similar ghost in the machine or if there is something I'm overlooking. Thank you all.

Did you measured the RTC battery voltage?

 

[kitcostantino]

Did you measured the RTC battery voltage?

I replaced the battery that was in the backplane as the installed one was dead.

Edit: I did find this thread https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-2010-5-1-totally-dead.2238437/
searching around and it sounds similar to what I have going on also.
I do have an extra power button/board I received with my replacement backplane. Is it worth swapping it just to see or highly unlikely my issue?

 

[tsialex]

Is it worth swapping it just to see or highly unlikely my issue?

The possibility of power button being the problem tends to zero, but you can confirm it trying to short the SYS_PWR pads.

The SYS_PWR pads the right bottom two, see the picture below. When both pads are shorted the Mac Pro powers on:

Just short the pads with something conductive, like a paper clip or a tweezer/plier.

 

[kitcostantino]

The possibility of power button being the problem tends to zero, but you can confirm it trying to short the SYS_PWR pads.

The SYS_PWR pads the right bottom two, see the picture below. When both pads are shorted the Mac Pro powers on:

View attachment 2393771

Just short the pads with something conductive, like a paper clip or a tweezer/plier.

Used a bit driver to bridge the connections and no result. Guessing that means I can rule that part out.

The GPU is suspicious , though as it doesn't sit correctly and my kid lost the plate with two hand screws that locks it in properly. When it was powering on properly, the output/scaling was way off anyway and I couldn't fix it in settings. (Windows 10). My 5,1 I have had no issues doing the same with my Pulse rx580. Guessing a new GPU would probably do kiddos rig some good.
Too bad the red devil rx480s are more than a sapphire pulse 580 used.
I should have my replacement backplane by the weekend. Going to upgrade wifi/bt on his while I have the backplane out.

Edit: Woke up to the machine on again. Used the power button to power it off (proving it works for sure). The no power on state did persist though.
My keyboard and mouse were not on this time. I still could not get video output. Turned it off using the power button. A few minutes later, I heard a click and it powered itself back on. This is basically what my son had tried to describe to me in its behavior. Turns itself on, won't always power on with the button. It is strange. I'm hoping the replacement backplane fixes this issue. I'm really wondering now, though.

@tsialex I replaced the backplane with a 2010/2012 one from eBay this weekend. The machine starts properly now, but the system refuses to boot or see my Mojave ssd. It will boot windows, but I have no Internet connection. I had replaced the wifi/Bluetooth using a iMac 27" A1419 WiFi Bluetooth Airport Card 607-8967 BCM94331CD card with the same kind of adapter I used on my other Mac while I had it apart and something has to be wrong. The number tags on the connectors for Wifi are not legible anymore (1,2,3)I plan to revert it to stock to correct that issue.

Mac OS recovery will not load holding the keys at boot. I only get a white blank screen with no apple logo. Mind you, I'm using a Windows wired keyboard, but I've checked the commands several times. I initially suspected my SSD was corrupted, but using a USB adapter, my MacBook pro saw the Mojave drive no problem. Guessing it's a HFS/AFPS issue.

The last time I replaced the backplane on this machine, it was from a 2012 server board that had spent most of its existence on early OS versions and I had to update the OS many times to eventually get it to Mojave. Is it conceivable that the boot rom on my replacement backplane is on an earlier version of Mac os and that's why it refuses to recognize the OS?
I have no clue how to determine what version the board is on if I can't boot to recovery.

I have done PRAM reset (4 chimes) twice thinking that may have fixed the BT/Wifi to no avail.

Aside from picking/making installers and just trying (which is likely wreckless) what would you do in that scenario?

Both gpus work in windows but I don't know if that has any substance or offers a clue. The stock red and black one works (albeit slowly) and the HIS one works as well provided the second mini 6 pin.
I have a red devil rx480 along with dual mini 6 pin to 8 pin connector arriving in the next couple of days.

I was also wondering about the windows drive being listed holding alt at boot denoting EFI.
Is that correct or a sign of something worse?

 

[kitcostantino]

I can't edit the previous post anymore, but the solution was a new backplane and updating to the Mojave firmware. .144) Note to anyone considering a RedDevil rx480, open core boot picker does not display correctly (graphical distortion) but works well and quietly as the card is quiet compared to my Sapphire rx580.
The key to getting firmware mode to work properly for me was to buy a new SSD, install High Sierra on it, and then perform the firmware updates. The thing I did differently when installing the firmware updates was hold the button past the flashing light and long tone until the disc tray popped out.
I do not know (and have not seen) if that has anything to do with it, but now I'm back up and running. Just wanted to update in case someone would benefit from it on the future.

 

[Ben J.]

My 2008 Mac Pro is also often not turning on on first click of the power button. I have to try it several times, and sooner or later it will eventually turn on. It's not been in regular use for a few years, and this started after it had not been turned on for months.

I have seen similar things mentioned many times on forums, and I'm guessing it's a thing with old MPs that are not turned on for longer periods of time. If I had to use the mac, which I luckily don't, I would simply leave it running and just set the screens to sleep after a period of inactivity. Sleep mode might also work.