mac pro 5,1..update it or pc w/ 8th i7

[kensic]

Current set up
2010 mac pro 5,1 6 core W3680 10gb 1333. SSD in sata2 cd drive port

it runs pretty slow for today's standard. i use this machine to edit picture (LR/PS) sometimes alot of pictures, sometimes just 1 or 2. and its kinda laggy when I'm doing the adjustments.

i have a 500-600 budget to build a new computer.

use it all on pc parts (reusing parts from my old custom pc) with i7 8th gen stuff (i78700, nvme drive, 16gb, motherboard)

or

use that $$ to make this mac run faster some how (not really sure how, 12 core tray with 64gb of ram???)

 

[yuzgen]

I would go for maximizing RAM. 3x16 or 3x8GB. Dont't touch the CPU. I don't know what LR is, but a dual CPU setup is overkill, if PS is Photoshop.

Also buy an SSD if you don't have one.

You will miss your Mac if you go for a PC.

 

[kensic]

I would go for maximizing RAM. 3x16 or 3x8GB. Dont't touch the CPU. I don't know what LR is, but a dual CPU setup is overkill, if PS is Photoshop.

Also buy an SSD if you don't have one.

You will miss your Mac if you go for a PC.

thanks for the reply. LR - lightroom.

yea i really do like mac OS, thats the reason why i still haven't bought any PC parts yet.

dang don't really wanna waste the 2x4gb owc rams. why 3 sticks (i see this everywhere on here) instead of 4 sticks? it has 4 slots

i should also get an pci card to use sata 3 speed for the ssd.

 

[yuzgen]

Don't buy from OWC. Buy the cheapest 10600R sticks. CPU is 3 channels. 1, 2 or 4 will degrade performance.

SATA 2 and 3 won't really make a huge difference. Only with very big files. Not worth if you have a SATA SSD already.

thanks for the reply. LR - lightroom.

yea i really do like mac OS, thats the reason why i still haven't bought any PC parts yet.

dang don't really wanna waste the 2x4gb owc rams. why 3 sticks (i see this everywhere on here) instead of 4 sticks? it has 4 slots

i should also get an pci card to use sata 3 speed for the ssd.

 

[h9826790]

LR is pretty hopeless. However, 10GB of RAM is really way too low for today standard. Go for at least 3x8GB server pulled 1333MHz ECC RAM, which should cost only around $60. If budget allow, go all the way to 3x16GB will be even better (but this part can't be re-use in other computer, so, better not to spend too much here)

Also, if you are still with a relatively old OS and old GPU, upgrade that may help. It won't improve the processing power. However, may help a lot on the UI performance. 10.13.6 + Sapphire PULSE RX580 8GB is a very good combination so far. You may consider that. (The graphic card can be re-use in any PC later, so, IMO, invest a bit more is OK)

For PS, you can use Affinity Photo to replace it. It's basically a Mac version of PS, wrote for macOS, optimised for macOS, but run much better on cMP than PS.

In any case, don't go for the 12 cores, it won't help.

 

[pl1984]

thanks for the reply. LR - lightroom.

yea i really do like mac OS, thats the reason why i still haven't bought any PC parts yet.

dang don't really wanna waste the 2x4gb owc rams. why 3 sticks (i see this everywhere on here) instead of 4 sticks? it has 4 slots

i should also get an pci card to use sata 3 speed for the ssd.

The CPUs used in the Mac Pro 5,1 are triple channel and thus are optimal with three memory sticks. However this is not something you will likely observe in real world usage. All else being equal if your memory requirements can be met with three sticks of memory then use three modules. Otherwise don't worry about it and buy what is best for you.

 

[h9826790]

The CPUs used in the Mac Pro 5,1 are triple channel and thus are optimal with three memory sticks. However this is not something you will likely observe in real world usage. All else being equal if your memory requirements can be met with three sticks of memory then use three modules. Otherwise don't worry about it and buy what is best for you.

Another reason for recommending 3x16 is because 4x16 won't boot with the W3680. (But 4x8GB is OK)

 

[kensic]

LR is pretty hopeless. However, 10GB of RAM is really way too low for today standard. Go for at least 3x8GB server pulled 1333MHz ECC RAM, which should cost only around $60. If budget allow, go all the way to 3x16GB will be even better (but this part can't be re-use in other computer, so, better not to spend too much here)

Also, if you are still with a relatively old OS and old GPU, upgrade that may help. It won't improve the processing power. However, may help a lot on the UI performance. 10.13.6 + Sapphire PULSE RX580 8GB is a very good combination so far. You may consider that. (The graphic card can be re-use in any PC later, so, IMO, invest a bit more is OK)

For PS, you can use Affinity Photo to replace it. It's basically a Mac version of PS, wrote for macOS, optimised for macOS, but run much better on cMP than PS.

In any case, don't go for the 12 cores, it won't help.

thank you, ill just get 3x8gb sticks. above member replied to get "10600R" sticks which is the same ECC RAM you're mentioning right? you're missing the "register" right?

 

[phairphan]

Do some more investigation into Lightroom, but I suspect that there is no amount of upgrading you can do that is going to move the performance needle appreciably. If possible, borrow RAM from someone you know to see if it helps in your specific processing before you buy new kit yourself.

Regardless of how well optimized LR is for the Mac, there are some tasks that are inherently single-threaded. I would bet that you're running up against the limitation in single-threaded performance on the cMP that's a natural consequence of it being a nearly 10-year-old computer platform.

 

[h9826790]

thank you, ill just get 3x8gb sticks. above member replied to get "10600R" sticks which is the same ECC RAM you're mentioning right? you're missing the "register" right?

For 3x8GB DDR3 ECC, Registered or not doesn't really matter. However, in general, RDIMM is cheaper and easier to acquire then UDIMM for this capacity.

Also, when you looking for the memory, please make sure you go for the 2Rx4 memory, not 1Rx8 or 4Rx4 etc, only buy the 2Rx4 memory will make sure the DIMM work as expected in the cMP.

 

[kensic]

Do some more investigation into Lightroom, but I suspect that there is no amount of upgrading you can do that is going to move the performance needle appreciably. If possible, borrow RAM from someone you know to see if it helps in your specific processing before you buy new kit yourself.

Regardless of how well optimized LR is for the Mac, there are some tasks that are inherently single-threaded. I would bet that you're running up against the limitation in single-threaded performance on the cMP that's a natural consequence of it being a nearly 10-year-old computer platform.

yea most likely youre correct, everyone complaints about preformance from LR all the time no matter how good their system is, i guess that grass is not greener on the other side.
[doublepost=1533575053][/doublepost]

For 3x8GB DDR3 ECC, Registered or not doesn't really matter. However, in general, RDIMM is cheaper and easier to acquire then UDIMM for this capacity.

Also, when you looking for the memory, please make sure you go for the 2Rx4 memory, not 1Rx8 or 4Rx4 etc, only buy the 2Rx4 memory will make sure the DIMM work as expected in the cMP.

thank you, ironically before reading this post. i got won an auction on ebay for 3 sticks for 40$.

samsung 8gb 2Rx4 PC3-10600R-90-11-E2-P2 (all matching)

so pretty happy to win 24gb for $40.

 

[yuzgen]

Please check this page for benches... To see your cMP is still a mighty beast.

http://barefeats.com/imac5K_vs_pros.html

 

[kensic]

Please check this page for benches... To see your cMP is still a mighty beast.

http://barefeats.com/imac5K_vs_pros.html

sad that i dont have any of that specs. no 12 cores, no 96gb ram , no gtx 1080 ti, no sm951

 

[h9826790]

sad that i dont have any of that specs. no 12 cores, no 96gb ram , no gtx 1080 ti, no sm951

TBH, you only need the hardware good for your workflow.

12 cores is virtually completely useless for LR / PS. W3680 is almost the fastest you can get.

96GB RAM also way overkill for most usage. In my own observation, my cMP usually stay at around 24GB memory usage.

I just check my current memory usage, and bingo, very close to 24GB again. (This is with PS, BR, and Affinity Photo opened)

So, assuming your usage is not much more demanding than I do. 24GB is good enough, the extra RAM can serve as OS cache to further speed up some operation, but that's really base on if you work flow need to regularly access the same data from the storage, if not, then it won't help much.

1080Ti also won't help much in PS / LR (I have this card, I know. It helps in video editing, 3D modelling, but not that much in PS / LR)

SM 951, something nice to have, but again, for normal photos work, we are rarely storage speed limiting (assuming already has SSD). So, basically any SSD can do the job well, going for even faster SSD won't further speed up your workflow.

 

[yuzgen]

Wow, h9826790, I'm glad we agree 100% this time. I was planning to type just the same stuff in my head while I was replying you in the other thread.

TBH, you only need the hardware good for your workflow.

12 cores is virtually completely useless for LR / PS. W3680 is almost the fastest you can get.

96GB RAM also way overkill for most usage. In my own observation, my cMP usually stay at around 24GB memory usage.

I just check my current memory usage, and bingo, very close to 24GB again. (This is with PS, BR, and Affinity Photo opened)
View attachment 774675

So, assuming your usage is not much more demanding than I do. 24GB is good enough, the extra RAM can serve as OS cache to further speed up some operation, but that's really base on if you work flow need to regularly access the same data from the storage, if not, then it won't help much.

1080Ti also won't help much in PS / LR (I have this card, I know. It helps in video editing, 3D modelling, but not that much in PS / LR)

SM 951, something nice to have, but again, for normal photos work, we are rarely storage speed limiting (assuming already has SSD). So, basically any SSD can do the job well, going for even faster SSD won't further speed up your workflow.

 

[kensic]

So, basically any SSD can do the job well, going for even faster SSD won't further speed up your workflow.

currently using a 128 gb crucial ssd ( 3-4 years old model) in the optical bay. using blackmagic, it writes ~130-135mb/s, it reads ~200-210mb/s.

think the speeds will be any faster if i got a pci card adapter , and move the ssd there?

 

[h9826790]

currently using a 128 gb crucial ssd ( 3-4 years old model) in the optical bay. using blackmagic, it writes ~130-135mb/s, it reads ~200-210mb/s.

think the speeds will be any faster if i got a pci card adapter , and move the ssd there?

Yes, the sequential speed will be improved. However, that shouldn't help much.

Let's say your photo is 100MB in size. Then your current setup only need 0.5s to load it. Further upgrade to SATA III can make that 0.25s (If no other limiting factor), but do you think that's really so important to save 0.25s in a workflow? OK, let's say another 0.25s for exporting, then total 0.5s for the whole editing process. I don't think that make any difference in PS.

And once the photo is loaded. Everything is done in the memory, storage speed has no impact to the workflow's performance (assume no need to use SWAP).

For LR, once again, the whole software is pretty hopeless in performance, I really don't think that's storage speed limiting. As long as storage speed is not the bottleneck, further improve it won't help the situation.

 

[kensic]

Yes, the sequential speed will be improved. However, that shouldn't help much.

$50 for snappier overall experience is probably worth it, ill invest in the pci adapter.

off topic, i saw your signature about the wifi ac/bt to get the cmp to do handoff/continuty/airdrop/ect.
to my understanding handoff/continuty is texting/recieving calls on the computer...and my cmp does do that.

do you think the previous owner did this update? ill pull the tray to see what kind of card is in there.

i remember trying to do airdrop pictures from cmp to my iphone but it doesnt work. im on Sierra OS.

 

[bookemdano]

Texting is actually iMessage/SMS Forwarding. You don't need the updated airport card for that.

Same with receiving phone calls from your phone (as long as your phone is nearby). Wi-Fi calling (when your phone is not nearby) is not possible for the cMP even with an updated airport card--seems Apple allows it based on model or SN and the cMP is not allowed to use that feature.

Continuity is the overall descriptor comprising several specific features (of which handoff is one). Here's a link describing those features. You can decide if those features are worth it to you or not: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204681

 

[kensic]

dang yea really need those RAM to come in. my normal work load uses about 8.5gb of ram. so having 24gb of ram will definitely help.
just installed gtx 960 (i have it laying around, replacing hd5870)
ordered the pci sata adapter.

gotta think about if its worth spending 150$ to get airdrop. (pushing pictures over to iPhone for IG, skipping google drive)
unless i can do it for 50$...any sources for this cheap?

thanks for everyone's input. thank you

 

[h9826790]

$50 for snappier overall experience is probably worth it, ill invest in the pci adapter.

off topic, i saw your signature about the wifi ac/bt to get the cmp to do handoff/continuty/airdrop/ect.
to my understanding handoff/continuty is texting/recieving calls on the computer...and my cmp does do that.

do you think the previous owner did this update? ill pull the tray to see what kind of card is in there.

i remember trying to do airdrop pictures from cmp to my iphone but it doesnt work. im on Sierra OS.

That's exactly what I want to say, you won't get any snappier experience.

Your system's snappiness mainly depends on the 4k random read speed (of course, I mean when there is no other limitation. e.g. you system has plenty of memory), not the sequential speed.

And this is the fact.

Even though you upgrade to a PCIe SSD, the 4k random read speed still at the 30MB/s range, way way below the SATA II connection limit (250MB/s). And it's also true for your SSD. The bottleneck (of snappiness) is not at there, further improve the bandwidth won't help. And yes, I intentionally to post this graph to illustrate that RAID 0 also won't help, but can make it worse. Quite a few people love to use RAID 0 for their boot drive (or even SSD RAID 0). That may be doing exactly the opposite what they want.

I know boot time is NOT everything, but it's a good indication about system snappiness. And guess what?

SATA II, SATA III, PCIe connection... give out virtually identical boot time on a same system. That means, no snappiness improvement by moving from SATA II to SATA III.

However, copying files or some (un)zipping operation can be faster with SATA III connection. It depends on how often you do this kind of operation, so that you can benefit from higher sequential speed.

As bookemdano pointed out, getting calls / message is don't even need Wifi. I had those functions working when there is no wifi card in my cMP. It's a part of continuity, but not Handoff. For Handoff, you need the updated BT / wifi card. For airdrop, you also need the need card.

I can't tell if it worth in your case, I got my card just below $40, and Airdrop does make my life easier (and I love Universal Clipboard a lot).

 

[yuzgen]

This is a good explanation to why I'm not interested in NVME drives, NVME boot EFI hacks etc. A regular (or more) SATA 2 SSD is just fine.

That's exactly what I want to say, you won't get any snappier experience.

Your system's snappiness mainly depends on the 4k random read speed (of course, I mean when there is no other limitation. e.g. you system has plenty of memory), not the sequential speed.

And this is the fact.
View attachment 774806
Even though you upgrade to a PCIe SSD, the 4k random read speed still at the 30MB/s range, way way below the SATA II connection limit (250MB/s). And it's also true for your SSD. The bottleneck (of snappiness) is not at there, further improve the bandwidth won't help. And yes, I intentionally to post this graph to illustrate that RAID 0 also won't help, but can make it worse. Quite a few people love to use RAID 0 for their boot drive (or even SSD RAID 0). That may be doing exactly the opposite what they want.

I know boot time is NOT everything, but it's a good indication about system snappiness. And guess what?
View attachment 774807
SATA II, SATA III, PCIe connection... give out virtually identical boot time on a same system. That means, no snappiness improvement by moving from SATA II to SATA III.

However, copying files or some (un)zipping operation can be faster with SATA III connection. It depends on how often you do this kind of operation, so that you can benefit from higher sequential speed.

As bookemdano pointed out, getting calls / message is don't even need Wifi. I had those functions working when there is no wifi card in my cMP. It's a part of continuity, but not Handoff. For Handoff, you need the updated BT / wifi card. For airdrop, you also need the need card.

I can't tell if it worth in your case, I got my card just below $40, and Airdrop does make my life easier (and I love Universal Clipboard a lot).

 

[MisterAndrew]

I have Mojave installed on both a SATA SSD and a PCIe SSD (AHCI). It's noticeably faster on the PCIe SSD (except for boot which is a known issue.)

 

[handheldgames]

That's exactly what I want to say, you won't get any snappier experience.

Your system's snappiness mainly depends on the 4k random read speed (of course, I mean when there is no other limitation. e.g. you system has plenty of memory), not the sequential speed.

And this is the fact.
View attachment 774806
Even though you upgrade to a PCIe SSD, the 4k random read speed still at the 30MB/s range, way way below the SATA II connection limit (250MB/s). And it's also true for your SSD. The bottleneck (of snappiness) is not at there, further improve the bandwidth won't help. And yes, I intentionally to post this graph to illustrate that RAID 0 also won't help, but can make it worse. Quite a few people love to use RAID 0 for their boot drive (or even SSD RAID 0). That may be doing exactly the opposite what they want.

I know boot time is NOT everything, but it's a good indication about system snappiness. And guess what?
View attachment 774807
SATA II, SATA III, PCIe connection... give out virtually identical boot time on a same system. That means, no snappiness improvement by moving from SATA II to SATA III.

However, copying files or some (un)zipping operation can be faster with SATA III connection. It depends on how often you do this kind of operation, so that you can benefit from higher sequential speed.

As bookemdano pointed out, getting calls / message is don't even need Wifi. I had those functions working when there is no wifi card in my cMP. It's a part of continuity, but not Handoff. For Handoff, you need the updated BT / wifi card. For airdrop, you also need the need card.

I can't tell if it worth in your case, I got my card just below $40, and Airdrop does make my life easier (and I love Universal Clipboard a lot).

To be fair, the xp941 is a first generation Samsung SATA Express AHCI ssd from 2013. Samsung is set to release the 5th generation PCIe ssd's within 30 days. Performance has scaled tremendously over the last 5 years

 

[dutchyonabike]

Current set up
2010 mac pro 5,1 6 core W3680 10gb 1333. SSD in sata2 cd drive port

it runs pretty slow for today's standard. i use this machine to edit picture (LR/PS) sometimes alot of pictures, sometimes just 1 or 2. and its kinda laggy when I'm doing the adjustments.

i have a 500-600 budget to build a new computer.

use it all on pc parts (reusing parts from my old custom pc) with i7 8th gen stuff (i78700, nvme drive, 16gb, motherboard)

or

use that $$ to make this mac run faster some how (not really sure how, 12 core tray with 64gb of ram???)

Upgarding the 5,1 is only going to give you another year or two. Considering every release of OSX makes little allowance for older hardware, that machine is running out of time. I jumped to a Custom PC 12 months ago, once everything was set up, it's actually very good. Mark