Mac Pro and Woodcrest: Confirmed?

[gerrycurl]

xeon motherboards do not support 16 x pci express

there's no way apple's going to use woodcrest in the upcoming powermac rev because there are no motherboards for socket 771 (woodcrest) that support anything above pci express 8x. powermac's are going to be high end workstations for print, graphics, and media shops, 8x pci express won't cut it.

look around at all the motherboard manufacturers (nvidia, ati, asus, msi, etc) none of them have a woodcrest platform available. apple always uses some other motherboard vendor like supermicro.

the upcoming powermac's will use core duo 2 and extremes. unfortunately we won't have a quad processor intel powermac just yet. but i bet the core duo 2 extreme will still show processing improvements above and beyond the quad g5 which will be good enough.

the only way i see this happening is if apple ships the powermac in 2007 when the socket 771 boards start using 16x pci express.

 

[Deimo]

Here's a little list i put together last week of my predictions for the next 6 months or so of a roadmap (whenever merom goes to 800 MHz on its bus, so maybe 9 months)

Portable:
MacBook: Yonah through 1q 2007, 667MHz bus Merom thereafter

MacBook Pro: Yonah through 3q2006, 667MHz bus Merom through 1q2007,
800MHz bus Merom thereafter



Desktop:
Mac mini: Yonah through 1q2007, 667MHz bus Merom thereafter

iMac: Yonah through 3q2006, 800MHz bus Conroe thereafter

Mac Pro: 1333MHz bus Woodcrest

 

[Silentwave]

Yeah, I hope apple lower their price point for the pro models. It is way too much. I love mac computer, but come on; the prices vs the PC suckass.

I know Macs are way better then PC, but PCs are good tool too.

As I said above, I don't think the difference will be terribly huge. But if apple doesn't move the prices of their top computers too much we'll be in for a good price comparitively. Apple is also likely to offer a larger amount of RAM available. The Dell workstations I configured in the post could only be configured with up to 4GB RAM, anything else you had to add yourself. Of course, apple RAM may be more expensive by a good deal so we will probably see a lot of people buying 3rd party here.

And lets see if apple has another quad at 2x 2.3ghz dual core, that saves $520 more versus the 2x2.66 DC quad, or $1340 versus the 2x3GHz DC quad. Past that point you have diminishing returns. Quad core 2x2.0GHz dual core saves you $260 over the 2.3GHz, $780 over the 2.66, or $1600 over the 3GHz.

 

[Deimo]

One thing i was just thinking... with some laptop vendors considering Conroe due to it being pretty damn efficient, how about this one:

MacBook - Merom - optimized for LONG battery life
MacBook Pro - Conroe - optimized to be a true mobile professional workstation

 

[Silentwave]

there's no way apple's going to use woodcrest in the upcoming powermac rev because there are no motherboards for socket 771 (woodcrest) that support anything above pci express 8x. powermac's are going to be high end workstations for print, graphics, and media shops, 8x pci express won't cut it.

look around at all the motherboard manufacturers (nvidia, ati, asus, msi, etc) none of them have a woodcrest platform available. apple always uses some other motherboard vendor like supermicro.

the only way i see this happening is if apple ships the powermac in 2007 when the socket 771 boards start using 16x pci express.

just wondering, have you not seen my posts on the dell workstation? that has dual woodcrests, and, be still my heart 16X PCI EXPRESS! 🙂 That's how it has the quadro FX 4500 video card. And you can even get a version that has a riser for a 2nd PCI-Express 16X slot so you can have 2x the Quadro 4500!

Also, According to the articles on the appleinsider site, apple has had INTEL doing the logic board.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

I wonder I they put a Xeon in a Mac will it come with Intergrated graphics 😕 😉

I sure hope Apple don't put intergrated graphics in the Mac Pros as ANY sort of an option......

 

[Silentwave]

One thing i was just thinking... with some laptop vendors considering Conroe due to it being pretty damn efficient, how about this one:

MacBook - Merom - optimized for LONG battery life
MacBook Pro - Conroe - optimized to be a true mobile professional workstation

unlikely. MBPs already have heating issues, and Yonah core duo standard voltage is designed with a TDP of up to 31W. Merom has up to 35W.
Conroe and Allendale both are TDP 65W throughout the range except teh Conroe extremes which are TDP of 80W. No info yet on the Low Votlage or Ultra Low Voltage Meroms, but if any high end processor beyond merom were to get into the MBPs, which i doubt due to the need for a different socket, i'd actually call it as Woodcrest!

The dual core Xeon 5148 Low Voltage, clocking at 2.33GHz with 4MB L2 cache and 1333MT/S FSB has a TDP of 40W- only 5W higher than the Meroms.

 

[gerrycurl]

graphics performance

i don't see a single pci express 16 x slot on any of the dell poweredge servers, what site are you looking at?

even intel's reference 5000 series motherboards for woodcrest lacks 16x pci express.

will be interesting to see.

just wondering, have you not seen my posts on the dell workstation? that has dual woodcrests, and, be still my heart 16X PCI EXPRESS! 🙂 That's how it has the quadro FX 4500 video card. And you can even get a version that has a riser for a 2nd PCI-Express 16X slot so you can have 2x the Quadro 4500!

Also, According to the articles on the appleinsider site, apple has had INTEL doing the logic board.

 

[Silentwave]

Here's a little list i put together last week of my predictions for the next 6 months or so of a roadmap (whenever merom goes to 800 MHz on its bus, so maybe 9 months)

Portable:
MacBook: Yonah through 1q 2007, 667MHz bus Merom thereafter

MacBook Pro: Yonah through 3q2006, 667MHz bus Merom through 1q2007,
800MHz bus Merom thereafter



Desktop:
Mac mini: Yonah through 1q2007, 667MHz bus Merom thereafter

iMac: Yonah through 3q2006, 800MHz bus Conroe thereafter

Mac Pro: 1333MHz bus Woodcrest

I agree for the most part, but there is no conroe with 800MHz FSB, and the only core 2 desktop processor with it will be a single variant of Allendale at 1.6GHz. If it gets Core 2, iMac will see at least 1066MHz FSB.

 

[Silentwave]

i don't see a single pci express 16 x slot on any of the dell poweredge servers, what site are you looking at?

even intel's reference 5000 series motherboards for woodcrest lacks 16x pci express.

will be interesting to see.

Why are you looking at servers? that would be XServe. We're talking workstations here. Go to Dell's Precision workstation series for the medium&large businesses.

 

[KindredMAC]

My DualCore 2.0 PM G5 is just fine and will be REALLY fine until CS 3 is released next spring/summer. Until then, I wouldn't be able to fully utilize the new Mac Pro. I installed my CS 2 on my MacBook and what a dog compared to my G5 at home and my G5 at work. Granted my buddy who is stuck on a 867 QuickSilver at work says that it runs about the same, but that doesn't cut it when I've been using a G5 for 2 years at work and 6 months at home.

I hope that the "little apps" out there hurry up and get converted over quicker than has been happening. Flash Player has bugged me. They keep using "Betas" and "trials". Flip4Mac hasn't released their update yet for Universal so viewing WMV's is near impossible on the MacIntels. Little things like that make a world of difference.

 

[JackSYi]

I like Appleinsider, and I believe that they are going to be right. But since this is all speculation at this point, anything can happen. Either way Mac users win.

 

[BWhaler]

I certainly don't know, but in the past I thought Apple would of gone with the Conroe chip.

But Apple is being very aggressive these days, and appears to be going to marketshare now that Microsoft is showing serious signs of aging.

My hope is for the Woodcrest chip. I would buy that in a heart beat since it is 64 bit and more future proof. A conroe system will make me wait out a year (like I did with the MBPros...I've been waiting on the real chip the Core 2 Duo...)

 

[odedia]

Hate to say I told you so 😉

Oded S.

 

[generik]

Here's a little list i put together last week of my predictions for the next 6 months or so of a roadmap (whenever merom goes to 800 MHz on its bus, so maybe 9 months)

Portable:
MacBook: Yonah through 1q 2007, 667MHz bus Merom thereafter

MacBook Pro: Yonah through 3q2006, 667MHz bus Merom through 1q2007,
800MHz bus Merom thereafter



Desktop:
Mac mini: Yonah through 1q2007, 667MHz bus Merom thereafter

iMac: Yonah through 3q2006, 800MHz bus Conroe thereafter

Mac Pro: 1333MHz bus Woodcrest

I doubt it will be like this. While this was the trend back in the PPC days when consumers have no alternatives to make comparisons with, people can make direct comparisons now, and no way will your Macbook look remotely attractive when a PC at 70% of the price has better specs.

"It runs MacOS" just doesn't cut it to switchers, sad to say. The corollary to that is "PCs come with Windows Vista".

 

[Capt Underpants]

Hate to say I told you so 😉

Oded S.

I'm sticking to my belief that the iMacs will get Merom.

We'll soon see...

 

[macenforcer]

I hate to say it but since I got my macbook black I have been using winxp and not osx. XP runs faster, is compatible with all apps like photoshop and office natively and runs perfectly. I have been very impressed. So impressed that I decided to build a core 2 duo desktop from newegg and I did it for Under $900. Now lets see apple top that pricing. (core 2 duo chip on order from buy.com)

Sorry but I think I have lost hope for OS X. I got the media center edition OS with the new computer I am building with dual tuner TV card. Watching tv via my xbox 360 is a dream. Mac will never be able to accomplish this task. Front row sucks.

If I bought a new mac pro (which I won't because its going to be a rippoff) I would just run XP on it.

For instance, I got two Radeon 16xPCIe X1600xt supporting crossfire with 512mb ram each from newegg for $120 each. Everything is just cheaper.

After a while you get to a point in your work where you realize seeing the neat apple OS is just not that important. Not when you can run crappy XP (which sorry to disappoint never crashes) for 1/3rd the price and 4x the speed.

Comon apple, make a media center mac and figure out a way to use PC graphics cards. After spending $500 on my Radeon 800xt with 256mb ram I wil l NEVER do it again. Not when I can get dual crossfire cards for half the price and 4x the performance.

I guess I am a half reverse switcher. Using macbook pro but XP only. LOL!

 

[Silentwave]

I hate to say it but since I got my macbook black I have been using winxp and not osx. XP runs faster, is compatible with all apps like photoshop and office natively and runs perfectly. I have been very impressed. So impressed that I decided to build a core 2 duo desktop from newegg and I did it for Under $900. Now lets see apple top that pricing. (core 2 duo chip on order from buy.com)

Sorry but I think I have lost hope for OS X. I got the media center edition OS with the new computer I am building with dual tuner TV card. Watching tv via my xbox 360 is a dream. Mac will never be able to accomplish this task. Front row sucks.

If I bought a new mac pro (which I won't because its going to be a rippoff) I would just run XP on it.

For instance, I got two Radeon 16xPCIe X1600xt supporting crossfire with 512mb ram each from newegg for $120 each. Everything is just cheaper.

After a while you get to a point in your work where you realize seeing the neat apple OS is just not that important. Not when you can run crappy XP (which sorry to disappoint never crashes) for 1/3rd the price and 4x the speed.

Comon apple, make a media center mac and figure out a way to use PC graphics cards. After spending $500 on my Radeon 800xt with 256mb ram I wil l NEVER do it again. Not when I can get dual crossfire cards for half the price and 4x the performance.

I guess I am a half switcher. Using macbook pro but XP only. LOL!

Have fun!

 

[macenforcer]

Have fun!

Already am. Thanks. 😎

 

[BlizzardBomb]

If Apple don't do some sort of Mini-tower hopefully one of the slow models (2GHz or slower) would be used as just a dual so we could have a budget PowerMac. Probably not likely, but with customers now able to make direct comparisons with PCs, it makes sense to have a cheap option. Great news though, although most of us knew it was coming.

For those of you who want to speculate:

http://guides.macrumors.com/Woodcrest

 

[sisyphus]

So this'll mean one of 3 things.

1) At least 1 Mac Pro will have dual Woodcrests and the rest will have Conroes. Similar to the current PM design.

2) All the Mac Pros will have dual Woodcrests and the iMacs will be upgraded to Conroes. I find this unlikely as Steve-o doesn't like "noisy fans" and the extra heat of the Conroes and faster bus chips etc. would cause the fans to come on more often.

3) The Mac Pros will all have dual Woodcrests, the MBP & iMac will get Meroms, the MB and Mac mini will stick with the Yonahs. So what will use the Conroes? How about the Apple Mac. A simple box with a Conroe processor, a real replaceable video card, no additional PCI slots (those are reseved for the Pro models), with room for one or two full size HDs, a DVD, wireless, bluetooth, etc... This is the real machine most people have been clamouring for. A fast unhampered machine that is more than the iMac but less than the Mac Pro (as will be reflected by the price).

I've never used any of the PCI slots on my PowerMacs and don't expect that I ever will, but the ability to put any video card in is appealing. The iMac is nice and quite useful, but just slightly less than what is needed in many cases. The PowerMac has been more or less uncompromising speed and generally more than I wanted when I bought. With all of the emphasis on the name 'Mac' in the new naming scheme and a more competitive landscape now that we've gone Intel, I think (hope) this is the machine Apple will use to complete its desktop lineup.

The Apple Mac... Nice sound to it, no?

 

[FocusAndEarnIt]

Same here, I am ready to buy a Mac Pro. 🙂

But why?

You have a MacBook Pro AND a PowerMac G5 DUAL 2.3GHz.

What the hell do you do that requires such a powerful machine? 🙄

 

[iMikeT]

With all of these options, I don't know what to think any more.😕

 

[Danksi]

I've never used any of the PCI slots on my PowerMacs and don't expect that I ever will, but the ability to put any video card in is appealing. The iMac is nice and quite useful, but just slightly less than what is needed in many cases. The PowerMac has been more or less uncompromising speed and generally more than I wanted when I bought. With all of the emphasis on the name 'Mac' in the new naming scheme and a more competitive landscape now that we've gone Intel, I think (hope) this is the machine Apple will use to complete its desktop lineup.

The Apple Mac... Nice sound to it, no?

I like the idea of a cut down Mac Pro, but perhaps something with at least one PCI slot, or even an Expresscard as used on the MBPro. Useful expansion, so long as it is all user-servicable.

 

[Evangelion]

Sounds like these new Mac Pros are going to be expensive.

In a way, yes. And I think that ThinkSecret is right as well: I bet that we will see a "MacPro Mini" featuring a mini-tower-design (or maybe pizzabox) that will use Conroe. MacPro would be all quad-core. The Mini would cost $1499 - $1999, whereas MacPro would cost $2499 - $3499. iMac would get Merom.

I made this prediction a while ago, and I still stand by it.